If you've ever watched Patrice Evra, you'd know.
23
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 19
- Clean sheets
- 13
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Reading this, I sort of agree with everyone. He wasnt terrible, he wasnt good, but he was there. Ideally, you'd want him to get more involved. The one time he got in behind, Sanchez picked him out and he nearly created a chance - I think the cross was a little behind Lukaku or Mata. He didnt (and doesnt) do that enough - you've got all the attributes, Luke, question is why you seem to be afraid to get forward?
If you think that performance was anything like Patrice Evra you've never watched him. In a game like that Evra would have played as a winger, constantly overlapping, linking with Sanchez and running in behind their defence.
Evra was a terrible crosser and would have also regularly scored low on all the measures you posted.
Shaw, like Evra, is an out-ball for the defence. He's a pacy ball carrier with excellent press resistance. But don't expect him to be brilliant in the attacking third, because he's not an attacking fullback. It's his technique and touch that make him such an asset. He's a footballing fullback.
Evra was a poor crosser but he made up for it with his movement, fantastic link up play and his willingness to get into dangerous positions in behind the opposition defence. He never lacked cross volume or forward runs with the ball.
Shaw offered none of those things today. His average position was exactly on the half way line, in a game where we utterly dominated he made no attempt to enter their third of the pitch.
Just look at his heat map. Look at it. Even compared to Valencia, who is in no way a marauding wing back he's astonishingly negative.
Now compare it to a game where we were equally dominant, the infamous 2-2 game where we broke the record for most crosses (although you can pick any similarly dominant performance as I have and it shows the same thing)
Night and day, Shaw's performance today was totally inadequate for a Man Utd fullback.
I'm not a fan of his at all.
We still need a LB imo.
But I'd rather Shaw than Young.
We still need a LB imo.
But I'd rather Shaw than Young.
Is it Mourinho who's instructing our full backs not to make overlapping runs? They almost never do. It makes us so easy to defend against in wide areas.
I like Shaw but Evra was the best LB in the world for a few years. Not a coincidence LB to make the Fifpro XI over like a 6-7 year period where they just picked 3 CBs and an RB.
I'd say Cole was but Evra a close second.
Go review the match, you obviously missed some of it.
Has to be, I thought Shaw was good today but he certainly played more defensively. I’ve noticed a lot there are moments where for me he should be breaking behind the back line, but if Matic is pushed forward or is moving forward Shaw retreats to cover him. Happened a good few times today and I’ve noticed it in the past. So for me it’s by instruction. It’s funny also that heat maps above show that Valencia and Shaw are asked to play more defensively under Jose as well.
Jose's only instruction is that when one overlaps, the other sits to keep at least three at the back.
haven't seen the whole game today but he's somewhat unconvincing going forward, I am even convinced that Young is our best LB now, he got massively better at every part of defending as he's very intelligent player, shame he was turned into a LB so late, he could be Evra's successor. I'd be personally expecting many more mistakes defensively but he's very focused on his game and defends well, there's a occasional positional mistake but who doesn't make it, Shaw makes them too and is playing LB forever.
So I don't personally see what Shaw has over Young? speed is about the same, stamina probably the same, Young looks in a great form even now at 33, and Shaw's getting to it but he really is struggling a bit when turning, Young has a great quick turn, his dribbling is obviously better, can beat a man other than kicking the ball into space or overlapping winger. His crossing is much better than Shaw's from his right and left, his shooting is different class. Shaw never scored a goal for us btw. And never seen him being a threat in the air.
Young is just much more creative player while if ever slightly behind defensively but like lighter Valencia he's playing very responsibly and rarely makes mistakes while offering os much more going forward. I really don't see much in Shaw, he can't shoot his crossing is questionable and dribbling is quite average, just speed, he would have to be very very solid defensively to start with to be even considered for a good enough leftback for MU. I was very optimistic when he first came here and he was unlucky with injuries but he doesn't look like a top prospect anymore to me.
I'd say Shaw would be great in three men defense as the left centerback but Mourinho doesnt seem to fancy that system anymore anyway. I'd personally bring Sessegnon or that Celtic guy and see how Shaw responds, Young is a good challenge but he will have a last season ahead of him and Shaw should be performing now. For the other two guys they might be still a bit too young to start so they wouldnt mind sitting on the bench but could push for a occasional start. Young would cover ageing Valencia o the right too with TFM being introduced more..
Darmian will hopefully be gon next season but we dont wanna end up with Rojo there
So I don't personally see what Shaw has over Young? speed is about the same, stamina probably the same, Young looks in a great form even now at 33, and Shaw's getting to it but he really is struggling a bit when turning, Young has a great quick turn, his dribbling is obviously better, can beat a man other than kicking the ball into space or overlapping winger. His crossing is much better than Shaw's from his right and left, his shooting is different class. Shaw never scored a goal for us btw. And never seen him being a threat in the air.
Young is just much more creative player while if ever slightly behind defensively but like lighter Valencia he's playing very responsibly and rarely makes mistakes while offering os much more going forward. I really don't see much in Shaw, he can't shoot his crossing is questionable and dribbling is quite average, just speed, he would have to be very very solid defensively to start with to be even considered for a good enough leftback for MU. I was very optimistic when he first came here and he was unlucky with injuries but he doesn't look like a top prospect anymore to me.
I'd say Shaw would be great in three men defense as the left centerback but Mourinho doesnt seem to fancy that system anymore anyway. I'd personally bring Sessegnon or that Celtic guy and see how Shaw responds, Young is a good challenge but he will have a last season ahead of him and Shaw should be performing now. For the other two guys they might be still a bit too young to start so they wouldnt mind sitting on the bench but could push for a occasional start. Young would cover ageing Valencia o the right too with TFM being introduced more..
Darmian will hopefully be gon next season but we dont wanna end up with Rojo there
Lets just say by some quirk the whoscored stats missed what in your opinion was a cross or throughball, that's one, in 90 minutes in a match we were camped in their half the entire game and he had the ball once in the final 3rd.
Yet Valencia still put in 5 crosses yesterday and was clearly more ambitious in his play.
He should’ve played vs Spurs and Young should’ve played yesterday
He made two very good runs but lacked final pass, even though he didn't make many overlapping runs and put in crosses he was involved more in the build up play. I maybe wrong but thought he played many quick passes to attacking players.
He tried to play a few give and go's which was nice to see , I still prefer young because he can create with both feet.
Plus, if it isnt a give and go or a time where he finds space,I dont think he has the ability to get past a player one v one, unlike young(former winger and all)
Plus, if it isnt a give and go or a time where he finds space,I dont think he has the ability to get past a player one v one, unlike young(former winger and all)
I really want to trust Shaw as our starting LB going forward.
My heart says trust him but my head says we should 100% be in the market for a top class LB in the summer.
My heart says trust him but my head says we should 100% be in the market for a top class LB in the summer.
Yet he also had a free right wing to move in to with no one on his side whilst Shaw often had Mata, Sanchez or Lingard in a combo on his side. Intresting aye? Also note Shaw got in to the most dangerous position out of the two but he couldn’t cross as no one was in the box.
He didn't attempt any crosses, there's no excusing that. And having people to link up with is a good thing, not a bad thing. Hell Mata assisted the first goal doing Shaw's job.
Clear as a day imo, we don’t need more attackers on the pitch but rather licence and initiatives for FBs to get by the byline to unsettle low block defensive units at least at our own backyard.
Agreed. Shaw has a hell of a lot improving to do before he becomes half the player Evra was.
If you’ve got 3 people crowding the space for you to move in to when they want to move in to it as well is not a good thing. It also leaves you weak in other areas. Again when he got in to the best position of either of our fullbacks after the ball to Mata he looks up and there is no one to cross to. Is he supposed to just hit it in for no one so he gets a crossing stat to appease you or wait for someone to get in there?
Umm also if Mata is playing as the LM at the time isn’t that his job to get a cross in and create the goal more so than Shaw’s?
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It's these kind of games where our only attacking outlet ends up being our fullbacks crossing it aimlessly into a crowded box, so I'm happy to see Shaw sit back every now and again because at least it encourages our attackers to create something themselves.
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Agree. For me sometimes you don't realise how good players are till they are not and you can take them for granted. Eva was incredible both ends of the pitch. How much would a 25 year old Eva be worth in today's money?
I reckon £100 million minimum mate. He totally owned the entire left hand side.
70-80 million
Probably a good thing given how bad he is at crossing. Was he this bad before his injury? I can't remember.
Other than that I think he's playing well. Young still pips him because he can beat people and cross.
You can complain all you want about him not being the next Evra, the fact remains that we're a lot less vulnerable at the back when he's in the side. 8 clean sheets in 12 appearances this season.
Quiet game from him yesterday, but I feel so much more confident in the team when he is the starting XI. Defensively solid, power, pace, good passing ability and he actually is a left footed player playing at left back.
Mourinho doesn't like having one attacking full backs nevermind two
I remember this debate well, and I always felt Evra's impact on the game in possession, the sort of midfield battle (to the side but same vertical area) and attacking contribution outweighed Cole's superior defensive play.
That's very incorrect, he usually has one very attacking and one very defensive. No idea what teams you've been watching Jose manage.
I believe Shaw stayed back more against Huddersfield as per Jose' instructions. Valencia as usual was our main attacking fullback. Can't believe after a game where he wasn't good nor bad, he's getting so much criticism, we won the game comfortably and so many are focusing on minor negatives in the game. I do wonder where the enjoyment of the game comes from for some people.
You literally just made that up.
Lets address these false claims with data shall we?
So lets look at the red and blue boxes shall we? What do you notice about them? It's evident which one was being occupied and which one was vacant.
Lets talk about passes from dangerous positions again shall we? Valencia made 3 passes in at least as dangerous a position as Shaw, as well as another 3 inside the box and another 1 just outside, as well as 6 from advanced wide positions. Shaw had 2 passes that were in advance of the D.
Lets just look at actual touches
Everything above the red line is Shaw, everything below is Valencia. See how absent he is in the final 3rd? And we know that the left hand side of the pitch was not occupied as we've seen the heatmaps, so what exactly was he doing?
So lets look at the red and blue boxes shall we? What do you notice about them? It's evident which one was being occupied and which one was vacant.
Lets talk about passes from dangerous positions again shall we? Valencia made 3 passes in at least as dangerous a position as Shaw, as well as another 3 inside the box and another 1 just outside, as well as 6 from advanced wide positions. Shaw had 2 passes that were in advance of the D.
Lets just look at actual touches
Everything above the red line is Shaw, everything below is Valencia. See how absent he is in the final 3rd? And we know that the left hand side of the pitch was not occupied as we've seen the heatmaps, so what exactly was he doing?
Quite simply because for most of the match Juan Mata was playing on the right hand side of the pitch and Sanchez was on the left (you can see this on heatmaps yourself here) so nobody was actually occupying the left hand side and stretching their defence like Valencia was doing on the right. The one time we did it we scored.Umm also if Mata is playing as the LM at the time isn’t that his job to get a cross in and create the goal more so than Shaw’s?
Bit random but I'm hoping someone can help me out. I remember a game where Shaw bust a gut to chase an opposition break (after they turned the ball over following a United corner and Shaw was the 'covering' defender), win the ball back deep in our half, run with it right across to the other side of the pitch and then all the way back deep into their half to create a scoring chance. Can't remember if we actually scored from said chance or not. This would have been before his injury, at the start of the 15/16 season. For some reason I have a feeling it was against European opposition.
Anyone remember which game that happened in. Triple points if you have a gif of it.
EDIT: Ignore me, it was the 4-0 victory against Brugge.
Anyone remember which game that happened in. Triple points if you have a gif of it.
EDIT: Ignore me, it was the 4-0 victory against Brugge.
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He still doesn't have that same blistering pace he had before his injury. That was his real strength. The way he used to take defenders on with that burst of pace. It's not the same now. He's still a very good LB but I want him to improve the final pass because I feel he gets into some really good positions but the final ball isn't there yet. Having said all that he's still better than Young in everything apart from crossing and if Shaw can improve that final pass he will cement his place over Young no doubt.
I'm pretty sure it was the Brugge game at home and Memphis was on a hatrick and he blazed it over.
I think he's adapted his game through request from the manager. I think Mourinho prefers this Shaw to the Shaw he was before. He does still get forward and his use of the ball in those situations is very good for a full back.
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