This is just plain stupidity on airlines part. It's not as if the war stops at 32k feet!
Malaysian Plane crashes over the Ukraine | 17th July 2014
- Thread starter Melvyn
- Start date
Actually it hasn't. The US and Ukraine have a right to bilateral relations like any other countries who wish to do so. Russia however, doesn't have a right to intimidate Ukraine into staying in the former Soviet sphere, which is the root cause of the problem.
This is ridiculous bad luck. Poor family. Not even recovered from the first, when second tragedy strikes. Sad.
Yes, but there is a sort of unwritten rule about messing about in other countries backyards. Latin America was declared off-limits by the US for decades.
There may be, but its always reducible to who has the power. Russia may be able to intimidate Ukraine, but it can't intimidate the US, so there's only going to be one loser here.
Well the Russians wouldn't respond directly, they'd do lots of annoying shit to piss off the US as a retaliation. Proxy wars were the big one back over the last 50 years.
Reports of belongings being looted by Russian supported groups, bodies being removed from the site and pretty much completely contaminating the crash site
I don't think there's much at the crash site in terms of evidence. The bulk of the evidence will come from intelligence that tracks communications (as the Ukrainians have already provided), as well as electronic and other means of tracking where the missile came from and who ordered it fired.
That's pretty much expected. Those village idiots might not have seen a laptop or an iPhone before.
Exactly. No matter how 'safe' the safe route and flight restriction seems to be set at, trusting the so-called safe route over a war territory doesn't really makes sense to me. What is being considered safe path for the aviation industry doesn't really means anything to those crazy feckers with weapons. Shite always happened within the war zone for feck sake.
I think there is a great deal of evidence that could be collected but it doesn't look like it will be needed given the plethora of evidence already pointing to SAM strike by Russian backed separatists.
The majority of airlines haven't flown over Ukraine since March apparently.
Yep. I suppose the only interesting evidence will be the logic of why they shot it down - whether it was intentional or a misidentified plane.
Some good corroborating evidence could go missing though. Stuff that would make it more difficult to claim the radar evidence is fake.
I reckon the phone recording of the Russians talking about having shot the plane down is pretty watertight evidence.
It needs to be proven the recording was actually the Russians/Separatists talking, not a fabricated conversation.
Aye. Proxy wars- the downside of the mutually assured destruction hypothesis.
I somehow doubt it, but I do hope someone is brought to book for this.
There's that, and also the Tweet from Igor Strelkov, and the video allegedly showing the BUK launcher being moved back across the Russian border immediately after the shoot down broke on the news.
The US have given the Ukrainians advanced weaponry havent they. And taught then how to use it. All because they want to annex parts of Russia....
Yeah
I'm actually really unsure what to make of this. Russians are supplying weapons. The US are supplying medical supplies. Russia are the ones encouraging the separatists who have just apparently shot down the plane.
Blame the US and the Israelis for the atrocities they do commit, not the ones they have nothing to do with
I wouldn't say it was watertight. They will just say it was staged
I don't expect anyone will ever be pinned down on this one.
Russia has been sticking its kalashnikov in too, dont forget. Ukraine and its people stuck in the middle
Its really all down to Russia. Putin can't seem to get it in his head that he doesn't own Ukraine, and that its an entirely separate country.
Maybe not suitable for all. Don't know if it has been posted
That video makes me feel that the passengers were probably alive for the crash. The aircraft is pretty much still intact other than the right wing.
That video makes me feel that the passengers were probably alive for the crash. The aircraft is pretty much still intact other than the right wing.
Don't think thats the right plane. That was the crash from earlier in the month.Maybe not suitable for all. Don't know if it has been posted
That video makes me feel that the passengers were probably alive for the crash. The aircraft is pretty much still intact other than the right wing.
Holy shit.. You're right, that plane is intact right till the end, they would all have been alive for that terrifying dive, unthinkable.Maybe not suitable for all. Don't know if it has been posted
That video makes me feel that the passengers were probably alive for the crash. The aircraft is pretty much still intact other than the right wing.
Is that confirmed as real?Maybe not suitable for all. Don't know if it has been posted
That video makes me feel that the passengers were probably alive for the crash. The aircraft is pretty much still intact other than the right wing.
It does seem from reports that the idea that the idea of the people onboard becoming unconscious instantly is a comforting thought but not necessarily accurate
But it also was said to be breaking apart midair
What crash from earlier this month?
They've been shooting down Ukraine transport planes. One was shot down on the 7th June.
I'm right, just did a youtube search and found a video from 7th June with the exact same footage and a comment saying "Why is CNN using this as footage for the incident yesterday?!"
CNN
Yup, same video from June 6th..They've been shooting down Ukraine transport planes. One was shot down on the 7th June.
I'm right, just did a youtube search and found a video from 7th June with the exact same footage and a comment saying "Why is CNN using this as footage for the incident yesterday?!"
CNN
As others have said that's not the plane. Footage is over a month old.Maybe not suitable for all. Don't know if it has been posted
That video makes me feel that the passengers were probably alive for the crash. The aircraft is pretty much still intact other than the right wing.
The plane definitely broke up midair. No other way would debris be scatter over 10 kms. That's a small mercy for the passengers i suppose.
Damn. I apologise. The livery looked like MAS colours so I didn't bother vetting the video. Still a horrific video to see.They've been shooting down Ukraine transport planes. One was shot down on the 7th June.
I'm right, just did a youtube search and found a video from 7th June with the exact same footage and a comment saying "Why is CNN using this as footage for the incident yesterday?!"
CNN
To lose someone in this type of atrocity is horrific enough but to learn that the bodies have been moved and robbed is vile. Putin has alienated the world.
4 people onboard, it's a military craft so they should have had parachutes, whether they used them or not I'm not sure. But to put it into perspective...
The plane in that video (An-30B) has a service ceiling of 27,000 feet and flies at 260mph.
MH17 which is a Boeing 777 has a typical cruise speed of 35,000 feet at 560mph.
So MH17 was at least 8,000 feet higher and travelling at more than double the speed. Although I don't know what speeds or heights the AN-30B would need to be at if they were indeed taking surveillance photos. I very much doubt they'd be doing their maximum speed/altitude in those circumstances so the altitude/speed differences would be even greater.
Scary stuff. But at least doing those speeds and that altitude the plane would have ripped itself apart in a matter of seconds and as someone said, the geforces involved would have knocked everyone out extremely quickly. That is at least a small crumb of comfort.
That is what we hope for in these shitty situations. That the people on board didn't suffer. But don't be so sure about an aircraft falling away to pieces. It really would depend on where the missile hit, but I believe in the case of this 777 it did mostly break apart on the way down.
But there isn't much G-force involved. In a dive you are still feeling only 1g. It is only when you try and arrest a fall (basically pull up) that you would feel any G's. Yes the G-force on impact would mean instant death. But sadly, I feel there could have been some people alive for those horrific last seconds. Even considering the lack of oxygen at that altitude, the Time of Useful Consciousness at 36000 feet is about 30 seconds but that is a human average.
Well as far as I know, if any damage is caused to the fuselage then at that speed and altitude it would very quickly expand and shatter the plane into pieces. Which is why when planes have failures of any kind at that altitude/speed it tends to be fatal. This is my understanding from watching a few documentaries about plane crashes anyway. It's common sense if you think about it. Why i'm explaining this to you is beyond me considering your job!
I suppose in short, we won't really know what happened because as far as I know, there isn't a clear video of the moment of impact, so we don't know exactly where the missile hit.
Kiev says it has proof that missile launchers with Russian crews crossed into Ukraine as fears mount that rebels are destroying evidence and removing bodies from the crash site (Guardian)
I dont think there is any more dignity in leaving the bodies where they fell, I suspect they have moved them to a mourge
Is there any update on communication evidence as to who might have fired the missile? Was it the pro-Russian rebels?
HIV’s Greatest Foe Went Down With MH17
Dr. Joep M. Lange, a Dutch researcher whose work toward finding prevention and treatment for the disease is unmatched, and partner Jacqueline von Tongeren were killed in the crash.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...st-a-hero-on-malaysia-airlines-flight-17.html
Dr. Joep M. Lange, a Dutch researcher whose work toward finding prevention and treatment for the disease is unmatched, and partner Jacqueline von Tongeren were killed in the crash.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...st-a-hero-on-malaysia-airlines-flight-17.html