Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

black_crow

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They will win the PL without a doubt, but I want to see them against a team like Bayern or Barcelona.

City had a couple awful games in 2017, but they managed to win those games. They look very stable.
 

Didsbury Dan

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I didn't say they were able to prove anything from the evidence available. But it can't be a coincidence how many times his players didn't turn up for testing and the fact he was working with all these dodgy doctors.
None of his players at City "failed to turn up for testing" for a start. Do you actually know what City were fined for?

-One player had moved house and City hadn’t updated the system for the testers. He was subsequently tested later in the same day.

-City added a second training session during preseason last summer at late notice and didn’t inform the FA of the extra session.

-Six reserve players were given a day off and City hadn’t informed the testers. All were tested the following day.

It’s the reason why it was a paltry fine and City said they’ve put a new administrative system in place to ensure these small infractions don’t happen again. They were not as bad as you suggested and no player failed to turn up for a test.

If City didn't have unlimited funds they'd have stuck with the likes of Hart, Mangala, Nolito and Iheanacho, rather than spending £180m on Bravo, Stones, Jesus, Sane & Ederson. Just as United have stuck with Young, Smalling, Darmian, Fellaini & Lingard.
If you can’t see why getting rid of Hart was one of the most important changes that Pep had to make then I don’t really know what to say.

As for Mangala, he started last week vs Spurs.

Jesus came for the exact same money we sold Iheanacho for so was a zero net transfer.

They spent 322.28 m over the last three years net, you spent 317.6m over the last three years net. You are so bitter.

(numbers per https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk)
You can prove anything with facts.

Can't you (UK citizens) press your government to boycott/cut any ties with UAE or Qatar (diplomatic, economy) until they follow your 'code of conducts'?

Like the West had/have done to Libya, Cuba, North Korea, Iran, etc.

Almost impossible I know, but who knows..
So you want the UK to impose sanctions on two countries for having the audacity to be constitutional monarchies?

This is why football fans should stick to football and not politics. The UAE and Qatar may not be remotely perfect but they’ve created a great deal less bloodshed in the world than the bastions of the “Free world” that are the USA and UK.
 
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The league is already done and dusted; it's a question of whether they can go the season unbeaten and how many trophies they will win. Fingers crossed they don't break all records, but it's a real possibility.
 

manc-in-exile

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Saw this in the other thread. Fantastic to see it written, even though he has to add disclaimers to protect him form the incredibly easy to offend city fans
Classic city. Their ‘support’ spend years calling United out for flogging replica shirts, and now say nothing about being bank rolled by a regime that flogs it’s slave labour. It’s sad that Man City, a one proud football club, was so desperate for some success that it had to totally sell its soul and forfeit any claim to the moral high ground.
 
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Classic city. Their ‘support’ spend years calling United out for flogging replica shirts, and now say nothing about being bank rolled by a regime that flogs it’s slave labour. It’s sad that Man City, a one proud football club, was so desperate for some success that it had to totally sell its soul and forfeit any claim to the moral high ground.
Ah yes, 'United fans aren't from Manchester'. United is a 'plastic club'. 'United fans are glory-hunters'. 'United is just about making money and selling shirts'.

Mansoor turns up with his chequebook. 'Do you fancy some of that, lads'?
'Fancy it? I'm going on Sky Sports News with a tea towel on me 'ed'.
 

SER19

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Classic city. Their ‘support’ spend years calling United out for flogging replica shirts, and now say nothing about being bank rolled by a regime that flogs it’s slave labour. It’s sad that Man City, a one proud football club, was so desperate for some success that it had to totally sell its soul and forfeit any claim to the moral high ground.
Ah yes, 'United fans aren't from Manchester'. United is a 'plastic club'. 'United fans are glory-hunters'. 'United is just about making money and selling shirts'.

Mansoor turns up with his chequebook. 'Do you fancy some of that, lads'?
'Fancy it? I'm going on Sky Sports News with a tea towel on me 'ed'.
Don't forget the "who, me?" When it's reminded that united were loathed and accused of everything from paying off the fa to intimidation of refs when at our most successful. City fans now are all fantastic sports, like a well behaved crowd at Wimbledon who think we should all just get along and admire them , just like they did.
 

finneh

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If you can’t see why getting rid of Hart was one of the most important changes that Pep had to make then I don’t really know what to say.

As for Mangala, he started last week vs Spurs.

Jesus came for the exact same money we sold Iheanacho for so was a zero net transfer.

You can prove anything with facts.
My point wasn't about the importance of any or City's signings, it was about the fact that they've been able to sign them all in two Summers, rather than having to spread them over say 4 years like even the most wealthy of non-oil clubs.

If you can't see the difference between spending £415m on 12 players vs spending £315m on six players then I'm not sure facts are going to help a great deal.

That is also from a base of already having a fantastic spine to the team in Sterling, De Bruyne, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Otamendi and Fernandinho.

Even excluding the £55m spent on goalkeepers the likes of Jesus, Silva, Sane, Gundogan, Nolito and Danilo were signings made solely due to having an unlimited budget. They're the signings United won't make due to an obligation to run a profitable enterprise.

This is before even talking about the Sanchez bid that was accepted on deadline day, which would have taken spending to nearly £500m.
 

jontheblue

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Transfer investment for last 3 years is an almost perfect correlation to league table position.

Guardiola and Manchester City certainly don't deserve any major credit, everything else is hyperbole, intended to generate clicks for advertisers.
Of course in general terms, in any of the top leagues, Leicester being the exception, the teams who spend the most money win the most.

But United fans seem to want it both ways. If we are paying a 'city premium' (which we were, but much less so now), to attract players who would otherwise join a 'big club with history & global appeal like United', then United's money should go much further than City's and if we both spend similarly, United should end up with better players ?

Plus, we were constantly told when first spending the money, that it wasn't enough just to buy big names - you needed them to gel and be managed. We were told that would be much harder to the point of impossible, because we were employing mercenaries, only coming for the money, often with bad attitudes which is why the best clubs didn't want them. Remember when we tried (very poorly) to sign Kaka - we were told it was insulting to think someone like that would ever sign for us. Not just then, but ever. Now we are being told that we spend more than everyone else and if we keep throwing enough cash for long enough, that alone will result in winning the league

Of course neither position is entirely accurate

If United fans can't accept that in relative terms, to the vast majority of players (and of course their agents), the attraction of United over City is nowhere near what it was, to the point that it's barely a factor, I think they are simply not living in the real world. If a player moves solely for the money, I don't see many, if any, instances where City pay more than United. If a player wants to move for the chance to win trophies, then at the start of every single season since SAF left United, a neutral player with no allegiance would see at least as good a chance and in most instances a better chance, of winning trophies at City than at United, including players looking at moving this January or next summer. The United history will factor in very little for most players these days.

United's problem is that whatever plan they might have had to deal with SAF's departure, has had to be changed, as it hasn't worked. The club understands the benefit of stability better than anyone, but there is no point sticking with a manager for the sake of stability if they realise it's been the wrong choice. They realised that with Moyes & LVG. Time will tell whether Jose was a good choice. The short lived managerial choices have presumably impacted badly on the buying, although I don't think that's the only reason. Another reason for poor buying IMO has been the time it has taken to accept just how much of an overhaul the squad needed/just how average some of the players in the squad SAF left actually were. And perhaps an arrogance that players would choose United just because they are United. Regardless of the reasons, it can't be argued that buying policy has overall simply not worked out well.

I wouldn't change pretty much anyone from our first choice 11 but I don't think they are the best 11 players in the league. Undoubtedly Pep couldn't have got to where we are without the money, but equally undoubtedly the money alone hasn't got us playing the way we are. Systems, training, squad harmony, hunger, etc are down to the manager. I don't believe any other manager would have this particular group of players playing as well as they are - who would have thought we could do this with Otamendi & Delph as regular starters, or Sterling being one of the top scorers in the league ?

So, to suggest Guardiola & City deserve no credit and it's solely about the money is incredibly shortsighted. That suggests if United spend much more than City over the next couple of years, which I would guess may well be what happens, United will overtake City again. They might, but if so, it will be because of more than just money. It will be because the money is spent well and the players are managed well. Just imagine if we had bought Pogba & Lukaku for the same sums United spent and we then went on to win the league - we would be told it's because we spent £165M on two top players. But United have done that and are not looking likely to win the league. As I say, it's about more than just money, but yes it can't be done without money.
 
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Didsbury Dan

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If you can't see the difference between spending £415m on 12 players vs spending £315m on six players then I'm not sure facts are going to help a great deal.

That is also from a base of already having a fantastic spine to the team in Sterling, De Bruyne, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Otamendi and Fernandinho.
Five years ago you’d won the league twice in three years. So it’s fair to say you had a decent squad. In 5 years since you’ve spent £13.7m net less per year.

City have purchased more players (at a smaller average transfer value) because of the ageing squad we had. You must remember how aged it was as it was a favourite topic of discussion in the caf (long time lurker here) every summer. Christ, we had no registered full backs as of this summer as they’d all seen out their contracts and we 33 years plus.

Even excluding the £55m spent on goalkeepers the likes of Jesus, Silva, Sane, Gundogan, Nolito and Danilo were signings made solely due to having an unlimited budget. They're the signings United won't make due to an obligation to run a profitable enterprise.
United have spent a fortune and could have spent more but for the facts they spend £60m on debt payments and payments to Malcolm’s Boys. City also have an obligation to run a profitable business and do so (three years running now).

We’ve not had a blank chequebook at all. Our owners (thankfully) don’t syphon off money from the club and thus all revenues are reinvested in the playing staff which is exactly what every fan would want.
 
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jontheblue

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Don't forget the "who, me?" When it's reminded that united were loathed and accused of everything from paying off the fa to intimidation of refs when at our most successful. City fans now are all fantastic sports, like a well behaved crowd at Wimbledon who think we should all just get along and admire them , just like they did.
That's just the way of football rivalries isn't it ? I spent years watching United dominate and us making fools of ourselves. My non football supporting father told me and my united supporting brother, when we were young, that any time our respective teams got to Wembley, he would take us. My brother wet himself laughing

I think all that's happened now is city fans who are old enough, can see in United's attitude towards City today, what City fans were mocked for over many years, which is basically that we were told we were bitter and jealous (which we were) and now, we can see elements of the reverse. As I say, normal football rivalry. I don't blame United fans sniping at City, in some instances with more substance behind it than others just as United fans should understand why City fans clutched at the embarrassing straws like having the tallest floodlights. I should add that United today are of course not playing remotely nearly as poorly as City did 15-20 yrs ago - in that sense it's not comparable. But having been so used to dominating and watching City doing so poorly, it must be difficult watching what was never believed possible - City becoming a major global player.
 
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SupaFella

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Don't forget the "who, me?" When it's reminded that united were loathed and accused of everything from paying off the fa to intimidation of refs when at our most successful. City fans now are all fantastic sports, like a well behaved crowd at Wimbledon who think we should all just get along and admire them , just like they did.
Yes but then look at it from a perspective of emphaty. How many United fans really cared that much about those remarks, if even you as a fan express that you never took it to heart neither and rather attributed it to jealousy? How many city fans you think will care about it, rather than simply being jubilant about their point lead and attribute such remarks by united fans as jealousy?
 

Treble

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Everyone associates Guardiola with attacking football. However, more impressive is that he is redefining the art of defending. City have the best defence in the league. And it is the best because it concedes far less chances while the team comfortably outscores the rivals. His understanding of the game seems on a different level.
 
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Everyone associates Guardiola with attacking football. However, more impressive is that he is redefining the art of defending. City have the best defence in the league. And it is the best because it concedes far less chances while the team comfortably outscores the rivals. His understanding of the game seems on a different level.
But he knows that attack is the best form of defence. His teams always dominate possession, and the opposition can't score when they don't have the ball. In addition they spend most the game in the opponent's half, which again means there's less defending to do. Sounds easy in theory, but it's much harder in practice.
 

Sigma

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Everyone associates Guardiola with attacking football. However, more impressive is that he is redefining the art of defending. City have the best defence in the league. And it is the best because it concedes far less chances while the team comfortably outscores the rivals. His understanding of the game seems on a different level.
Their defence isn't that good, its just that for 70/80% of the time, they are in the other teams half attacking, not letting them get out.
 

finneh

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Five years ago you’d won the league twice in three years. So it’s fair to say you had a decent squad. In 5 years since you’ve spent £13.7m net less per year.

City have purchased more players (at a smaller average transfer value) because of the ageing squad we had. You must remember how aged it was as it was a favourite topic of discussion in the caf (long time lurker here) every summer. Christ, we had no registered full backs as of this summer as they’d all seen out their contracts and we 33 years plus.
It's quite funny you mention that United had a decent squad when Fergie retired but then mention City's aging squad. It's also disingenuous to talk about winning two titles in three seasons... They were won in large because of Fergie. No other manager would have won those two titles.

United have spent a fortune and could have spent more but for the facts they spend £60m on debt payments and payments to Malcolm’s Boys. City also have an obligation to run a profitable business and do so (three years running now).

We’ve not had a blank chequebook at all. Our owners (thankfully) don’t syphon off money from the club and thus all revenues are reinvested in the playing staff which is exactly what every fan would want.
City do not run a profitable business. City have above market value sponsorships from a dozen companies that have ties with your ownership. Hence the reason that your commercial income has increased from £18m in 2009 to £218m in 2017. City have the same business model as PSG - although the former are a bit more surreptitious than the latter in having a dozen deals at £10-15m per annum above market value, rather than one deal worth £175m. It's no coincidence that your kit deal is worth a paltry £12m per annum - although I'm sure "Abu Dhabi football kits" will be incorporated in time for your 2019 deal - I imagine at £70m+ a season.

If Messi were available for £250m and willing to go to City they'd still post profits the following year because you'd suddenly see your partnerships with the likes of Etihad, Etisalat, TCA Abu Dhabi, Aabar, Saudi Bank, First Gulf Bank etc all "renegotiated" upwards by £20m.

That's before even talking about the dodgy practice of having non-football staff employed by the holding company instead of City in order to deflate your wage bill to the tune of 20%+.
 

3lite

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Their defence isn't that good, its just that for 70/80% of the time, they are in the other teams half attacking, not letting them get out.
Mourinho's attack isn't that bad, it's just that for 70/80% of the time, they are in their own half defending, not starting any attacks.
 

SqualorVictoria

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Their defence isn't that good, its just that for 70/80% of the time, they are in the other teams half attacking, not letting them get out.
Well but then the question is what does a defence consist of; you could easily say that by keeping the ball, and being that high up the pitch, so even when the opposition gets the ball, forcing them to go long and eventually lose it again is indeed a good form of defence.
 

Treble

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Their defence isn't that good, its just that for 70/80% of the time, they are in the other teams half attacking, not letting them get out.
You are thinking of defence in isolation from attack. Which is a mistake. They defend high up the pitch and the defence starts with their forwards. Sane, Jesus and Sterling are the most potent high pressing unit in world football. This is why Jesus plays in the big games, especially in away games. Aguero can't press as well.
 

adexkola

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Their defence isn't that good, its just that for 70/80% of the time, they are in the other teams half attacking, not letting them get out.
You're very wrong. Their defense is excellent. The numbers don't lie. They don't concede many chances, and they don't concede many goals.
 

adexkola

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But he knows that attack is the best form of defence. His teams always dominate possession, and the opposition can't score when they don't have the ball. In addition they spend most the game in the opponent's half, which again means there's less defending to do. Sounds easy in theory, but it's much harder in practice.
It's interesting seeing how his team hounds you once you have the ball.

In the derby, they were far from their best, but it was laughable seeing how we kept on hoofing the ball back to them because they denied us an outlet in midfield.

Also, Ederson is a huge part of their defense. You can't launch a ball over their back line. Ederson will just sweep the ball up.
 

M18CTID

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Classic city. Their ‘support’ spend years calling United out for flogging replica shirts, and now say nothing about being bank rolled by a regime that flogs it’s slave labour. It’s sad that Man City, a one proud football club, was so desperate for some success that it had to totally sell its soul and forfeit any claim to the moral high ground.
That’s two threads you’ve posted this in today. Why not go for the hat-trick and stick it in the doping thread?
 

JASR

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It's quite funny you mention that United had a decent squad when Fergie retired but then mention City's aging squad. It's also disingenuous to talk about winning two titles in three seasons... They were won in large because of Fergie. No other manager would have won those two titles.
yep. It was quite incredible he hauled them over the line with the incoming RVP rejuvenated for 1 year.
There's been many threads discussing the 'legacy' of aged players left by fergie.
10 Years after the takeover and the influx of new players, City did something about those older players. well duh.

City do not run a profitable business.
Yes they do, as per the audited accounts for the past 3 years.

City have above market value sponsorships from a dozen companies that have ties with your ownership.
It's about 12% of the total Commerical revenue that comes from Abu Dhabi, according to previous posts on this thread.
So worth a Lindelof a year.

Hence the reason that your commercial income has increased from £18m in 2009 to £218m in 2017.
It really should be considerably more if it was based on your previous statement? Unlimited apparently.
https://www.mancity.com/fans-and-community/club/partners/global
https://www.mancity.com/fans-and-community/club/partners/regional
Which contains some well known Abu Dhabi global companies like:
Nike, Nissan, Nexen, SAP, Hayes, Wix, Gatorade, QNet, Valvoline, BetSafe, EA Sports, Wega, DSquared2 etc

City have the same business model as PSG - although the former are a bit more surreptitious than the latter in having a dozen deals at £10-15m per annum above market value, rather than one deal worth £175m.
PSG have an (unknown to me) different business model, that's why UEFA FFP is investigating them, whereas City was looked at and is fine.
Regarding strange deals, I'd suggest United's Chevrolet one is perhaps the most strange. And remember the Chevrolet PR wonk who got sacked after it was signed?

It's no coincidence that your kit deal is worth a paltry £12m per annum - although I'm sure "Abu Dhabi football kits" will be incorporated in time for your 2019 deal - I imagine at £70m+ a season.
Yes the current one, which ends next year, is crap, but then again it was reasonable value when it was originally signed in 2014. And you clearly don't read many facts about City, as the next sponsor is £50m a year with the local Abu Dhabi company of Puma... nor the fact that it's currently 20m a year with Nike.

If Messi were available for £250m and willing to go to City they'd still post profits the following year because you'd suddenly see your partnerships with the likes of Etihad, Etisalat, TCA Abu Dhabi, Aabar, Saudi Bank, First Gulf Bank etc all "renegotiated" upwards by £20m.
He was available last year, if you read anything anywhere.
That boat sailed last month. Shame, but close.

That's before even talking about the dodgy practice of having non-football staff employed by the holding company instead of City in order to deflate your wage bill to the tune of 20%+.
Jeez the groundsmen must be on 100k a week if that 20% was true. I'm in the wrong job!
 

IronCroos37

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What is the end game for City and PSG owners. Are they trying to make profits in the end? Do they wash money? Are the clubs just toys, like a new lambo. Are they really huge football fans or business men?

Abramovich wasn't super rich like these guys, he did some money washing. Also he did turn Chelsea huge, and the boat is run very tight nowadays without throwing money. I belive Abramovich made profit.
 

Karel Podolsky

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It’s sad that Man City, a one proud football club, was so desperate for some success that it had to totally sell its soul and forfeit any claim to the moral high ground.
You wish them stayed shite but a proud football club.
I would like to know which owner Leeds Utd or Forest fans wish to have.
 

sammsky1

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What is the end game for City and PSG owners. Are they trying to make profits in the end? Do they wash money? Are the clubs just toys, like a new lambo. Are they really huge football fans or business men?

Abramovich wasn't super rich like these guys, he did some money washing. Also he did turn Chelsea huge, and the boat is run very tight nowadays without throwing money. I belive Abramovich made profit.
Abu Dhabi is competing with Qater to impose itself into global consciousness and so will keep investing at increasing rates until at least after the Qater world cup. I believe it's a nation branding marketing exercise but will deliver huge profits on the decades to come.

Personally I don't have a problem with the size and source of City's investment: we live in a complicated world where source of income has deep historical context: eg: western nations building their economies on slavery and colonialisation.

My issue is that many City fans refuse to acknowledge it the role of superior finance. When Manchester United were the best funded team around under Kenyan, Gill and SAF, fans were proud of our ability to generate cash.

I suspect that because City's cash is not self generated, their fans lose that moral legitimacy and the bragging rights, which is why we get all their other exuses now.
 

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The 16th century version of "who pays for city's beautifull game" would be "who pays for the beautifull works of Leonardo Da Vinci"? Shall we refrain to admire his works, and rather look at it with disgust for what allowed it to come about?
 
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Random Task

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The 16th century version of "who pays for city's beautifull game" would be "who pays for the beautifull works of Leonardo Da Vinci"? Shall we refrain to admire his works, and rather look at it with disgust for what allowed it to come about?
I prefer contempt rather than disgust.

Utter contempt.
 

Jim Beam

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The 16th century version of "who pays for city's beautifull game" would be "who pays for the beautifull works of Leonardo Da Vinci"? Shall we refrain to admire his works, and rather look at it with disgust for what allowed it to come about?
I puked a bit.
 

SteveJ

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It's a farcical comparison anyway, considering Leonardo's talents in spheres other than mere painting and sculpture.
 

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It’s horrible to watch but I don’t feel the pain any more. We’re outpacing the Scousers for points and I’ve written off the league.

The Scousers in work like to talk about how far my expectations have fallen but that points lead is insurmountable for a team with no clear weakness and I’m happy we’re still in a few competitions and ahead of Liverpool.
 

VorZakone

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Where the hell did this form come from? They have Otamendi and Delph at the back ffs.
 

BlueMoonOutcast

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Where the hell did this form come from? They have Otamendi and Delph at the back ffs.
Both have been outstanding this season. Otamendi in particular, not just at the back, but passing through midfield and he's chipped in with five goals.
 

Sensei

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It’s horrible to watch but I don’t feel the pain any more. We’re outpacing the Scousers for points and I’ve written off the league.

The Scousers in work like to talk about how far my expectations have fallen but that points lead is insurmountable for a team with no clear weakness and I’m happy we’re still in a few competitions and ahead of Liverpool.
Sounds so Arsenal-like: "We finish ahead of Spurs, no problem"
 

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What is the end game for City and PSG owners. Are they trying to make profits in the end? Do they wash money? Are the clubs just toys, like a new lambo. Are they really huge football fans or business men?

Abramovich wasn't super rich like these guys, he did some money washing. Also he did turn Chelsea huge, and the boat is run very tight nowadays without throwing money. I belive Abramovich made profit.
Abramovich was and is a multibillionaire. If that's not super-rich, what is?
 

Janson

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None of his players at City "failed to turn up for testing" for a start. Do you actually know what City were fined for?

-One player had moved house and City hadn’t updated the system for the testers. He was subsequently tested later in the same day.

-City added a second training session during preseason last summer at late notice and didn’t inform the FA of the extra session.

-Six reserve players were given a day off and City hadn’t informed the testers. All were tested the following day.

It’s the reason why it was a paltry fine and City said they’ve put a new administrative system in place to ensure these small infractions don’t happen again. They were not as bad as you suggested and no player failed to turn up for a test.
Obviously it was a bit of hyperbole on my part. Even if something was happening, I doubt it would give them such an advantage to be so far ahead of us. It's just that everything that's out there about it makes you think.
 

Baby Groot

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Obviously it was a bit of hyperbole on my part. Even if something was happening, I doubt it would give them such an advantage to be so far ahead of us. It's just that everything that's out there about it makes you think.
If I could I would give your post a like.
 

SER19

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That's just the way of football rivalries isn't it ? I spent years watching United dominate and us making fools of ourselves. My non football supporting father told me and my united supporting brother, when we were young, that any time our respective teams got to Wembley, he would take us. My brother wet himself laughing

I think all that's happened now is city fans who are old enough, can see in United's attitude towards City today, what City fans were mocked for over many years, which is basically that we were told we were bitter and jealous (which we were) and now, we can see elements of the reverse. As I say, normal football rivalry. I don't blame United fans sniping at City, in some instances with more substance behind it than others just as United fans should understand why City fans clutched at the embarrassing straws like having the tallest floodlights. I should add that United today are of course not playing remotely nearly as poorly as City did 15-20 yrs ago - in that sense it's not comparable. But having been so used to dominating and watching City doing so poorly, it must be difficult watching what was never believed possible - City becoming a major global player.
Yes it's football rivalry, and you're accepting that and describing it. I'm talking about the ones that don't, thought that was pretty clear. Thy hypocrites who are so touchy about every perceived slight that hide behind the pretence of just expecting 'sportsmanship.'


For the record it's not especially difficult, watching city spend billions in no time it was pretty clear they'd win a title. Even Mancini won a title and that was when Ferguson was manager and he did it with a worse squad (better achievement than if they win it this year). City are going to have to have a sustained era of dominance or at the very least win back to back titles before any level headed united fans could be called bitter. Chelsea won it last year, Leicester the year before, probably city this time. Somebody has to win the thing there's no season of seasons. A True great achievement lies in dominance, not in a title win.
 

padr81

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So this thread is still in meltdown anyway...

Happy christmas to everyone whose posted in here, even those spouting pure and utter lies (you've made it fun) and those who just dislike City or those who love our great club. Also Namco (I know you still read, out there may Santa bring you the Pep Guardiola shaped dartboard you dream of), happy christmas to you my friend and may all your new accounts stay unbanned.