[Wibble]

I've just deleted that last page or more of what goes for discussion these days. Criticism is fine but the sea of mindless abuse isn't. Get a grip people. We don't want to start having to hand out warnings.

 

[golden_blunder]

No way this guy survives in a foreign league.

Why not? Sometimes a change of scene is all a player needs to unlock themselves again

 

[golden_blunder]

Keep it constructive please

 

[TheGame]

I've just deleted that last page or more of what goes for discussion these days. Criticism is fine but the sea of mindless abuse isn't. Get a grip people. We don't want to start having to hand out warnings.

Sadly people will only learn once warnings are handed out in my opinion.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I agree, but this logic that he's some demon for wanting to earn the most amount of money he can is ridiculous, never understood it.

I wonder if the people throwing the criticism would be willing to take a substantial pay-cut in their professional careers purely to do their organisation a solid.

I thought the criticism of his wages was in relation to the ability / effort / attitude being displayed while earning it?

Many footballers are on mad wages as there's plenty of money in the game. But if they're delivering week in, week out, season in, season out then they won't be criticised for earning it as they're justifying it. If they're often putting in poor performances and showing a lack of desire / hunger for long spells, then I assume that's where the criticism comes in.

Of course, criticism shouldn't become abuse. But which is which is based on interpretation / semantics. There seems to be a desire, especially with Rashford, to lump all criticism into the 'abuse' section - thereby making it invalid. Not saying it isn't a good and crafty tactic to try to deflect the criticism, but it doesn't actually change the fact that there's still plenty of valid criticisms made regarding work rate, attitude and body language, consistency of end product, etc.

 

[VP89]

I think he should just play off the bench now

 

[afrocentricity]

Sadly people will only learn once warnings are handed out in my opinion.

Agreed.

I know the cafe doesn't want to engage in North Korea / RAWK style moderating....... But I reckon that ship sailed anyway.

 

[EireRed_GS]

As hes not been fit recently, and that his form has been really poor for a long time now, He should be coming off the bench really. Hopefully that gives him a kick up the arse/ lights a fire etc to come on and show what we've been missing.

But if he does come on (or start) and just go back to just walking around looking uninterested, hopefully that makes the clubs mind up with his future at United.

Regardless of the above, I think Ten Hag will start him if he's in any way fit. Garnacho will be moved out right

 

[M16Red]

As hes not been fit recently, and that his form has been really poor for a long time now, He should be coming off the bench really. Hopefully that gives him a kick up the arse/ lights a fire etc to come on and show what we've been missing.

But if he does come on (or start) and just go back to just walking around looking uninterested, hopefully that makes the clubs mind up with his future at United.

Regardless of the above, I think Ten Hag will start him if he's in any way fit. Garnacho will be moved out right

I think in the final ETH will start him and play counter attacking. Hopefully bags a goal and goes to the euros. He's a talented player,

I think a move abroad will do wonders for him personally and professionally.

 

[M16Red]

Keep it constructive please

Whatever happen to attack the post not the poster? Dem woz da dayz

 

[Mike Smalling]

Best case scenario is he recaptures his form from earlier seasons. Every United fan should want a homegrown player to do well here. But if he doesn't find his form and continues with the lack of effort and stupid decision making we've seen this season, it might be best for both himself and the club that he finds another team. There is an amount of focus on him here that I don't think does him any good.

 

[Snow]

I've just deleted that last page or more of what goes for discussion these days. Criticism is fine but the sea of mindless abuse isn't. Get a grip people. We don't want to start having to hand out warnings.

Why not?

I'm a teacher that teaches teenagers so I consider myself to have a valuable input on the matter. Lot of you on here have kids so have experiences as well and should also know something about discipline and how to maintain it. You yourself are a coach are you not? Handing out warnings seem fairly lenient I feel and should do the job. People act in a way that they get away with (up to a point of course). Players dive because there isn't a punishment for it. Kids who disrupt class without any sort of consequence will not stop distrupting class. Kids that see other kids get away with stuff will want to get away with it too. Being too lenient on rules that are in place to ensure that a basic learning environment is maintained and common courtesy prevails, or in this instance a discussion forum, will make the environment worse. Adults who post anonymously and have not learned that their every thought and feeling is important to the discussion need to be told. Warning is a form of boundary being implemented. An adult should understand when they are told that there is a line that they've crossed and should not do it again. Most children do understand that. The children who don't are children who's parents go against school, against authority and allow their kid to behave however they want. Some of those kids are now adults on this forum and we shouldn't tolerate them. It's not our job to educate adults on proper etiquette and we really don't need to tolerate individuals whos only input are basically a series of angry tweets.

This is an internet forum, you are volunteers and you have a limited number of tools at your disposal. I personally think you guys should rework your approach to moderation if the goal is to get the forum more towards level-headed discussion. Use warninings, use 24 hour bans. Don't be afraid to use it. It will we work to begin with but it will save you work down the line. Making it easier for yourself is really the goal here.

I'll take my warrning/temp ban now for derailing the thread. That being said, I clicked on the thread because I was curious about the responses to the video of Rashford that came out today and I imagine that was what you had to clean up?

 

[Wibble]

Why not?

I'm a teacher that teaches teenagers so I consider myself to have a valuable input on the matter. Lot of you on here have kids so have experiences as well and should also know something about discipline and how to maintain it. You yourself are a coach are you not? Handing out warnings seem fairly lenient I feel and should do the job. People act in a way that they get away with (up to a point of course). Players dive because there isn't a punishment for it. Kids who disrupt class without any sort of consequence will not stop distrupting class. Kids that see other kids get away with stuff will want to get away with it too. Being too lenient on rules that are in place to ensure that a basic learning environment is maintained and common courtesy prevails, or in this instance a discussion forum, will make the environment worse. Adults who post anonymously and have not learned that their every thought and feeling is important to the discussion need to be told. Warning is a form of boundary being implemented. An adult should understand when they are told that there is a line that they've crossed and should not do it again. Most children do understand that. The children who don't are children who's parents go against school, against authority and allow their kid to behave however they want. Some of those kids are now adults on this forum and we shouldn't tolerate them. It's not our job to educate adults on proper etiquette and we really don't need to tolerate individuals whos only input are basically a series of angry tweets.

This is an internet forum, you are volunteers and you have a limited number of tools at your disposal. I personally think you guys should rework your approach to moderation if the goal is to get the forum more towards level-headed discussion. Use warninings, use 24 hour bans. Don't be afraid to use it. It will we work to begin with but it will save you work down the line. Making it easier for yourself is really the goal here.

I'll take my warrning/temp ban now for derailing the thread. That being said, I clicked on the thread because I was curious about the responses to the video of Rashford that came out today and I imagine that was what you had to clean up?

I have coached kiddy soccer but not a coach despite reading a great deal about coaching related primary literature more recently as my son is doing a Master of Education/Elite Coaching - lots of which is an adaptation of modern leadership phyc theory.

But I am a qualified HS teacher. Both lead me to ban/warn for the worst stuff, gentle (or not so gentle) guidance when appropriate and when a situation like this thread re entry breaks out first try to get the group ethos to calm down (or at least most to stop) and then smite if ignored

 

[Ceteris]

Chelsea managed to ship Mount for decent money and he's a homegrown academy player.

We at United allow player value to decline beyond salvageable, look at some of our players that have left for less than £10million.

I remember Rashford when he broke into the first team, he scored some goals chasing down the pass back to the goal keeper and now he's allergic to making body contact when defending.

Seems to be spending more energy defending himself off the pitch rather than fighting for the badge on it.

It's time to sell before he becomes a £20 million player. For those worried that he could make it elsewhere, at least we would have gotten back a good fee.

 

[lex talionis]

The best thing that could happen to Rashford right now is not being selected for NT duty this summer. His head and body are jacked and the man needs a 3-4 week break from all of this.

 

[devilish]

The best thing that could happen to Rashford right now is not being selected for NT duty this summer. His head and body are jacked and the man needs a 3-4 week break from all of this.

Palmer, Gordon, Saka, Bowen and Foden are way better options at this point

 

[Buster15]

Best case scenario is he recaptures his form from earlier seasons. Every United fan should want a homegrown player to do well here. But if he doesn't find his form and continues with the lack of effort and stupid decision making we've seen this season, it might be best for both himself and the club that he finds another team. There is an amount of focus on him here that I don't think does him any good.

I too would like to see him recapture his previous form and also like to see more home grown talents playing for United.

But unless there is a very good reason for his awful performances, then he deserves the criticism and can be sold.
No team can carry passengers and currently that is what he is.

 

[Doracle]

If Rashford is called for the national team then Southgate is more stupid then we portray him to be. Palmer, Gordon, Saka, Bowen and Foden are way better options.

4 RW options and Gordon (who obviously isn’t in the same league as Rashford as a player). Even if he’s planning on playing Foden out of position on the left, Rashford is a player who can instantly turn a match on its head off the bench. It would be sheer madness not to pick him.

Agree it would be better for us if he doesn’t travel though - a refreshed Rashford will be vital next season.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

4 RW options and Gordon (who obviously isn’t in the same league as Rashford as a player). Even if he’s planning on playing Foden out of position on the left, Rashford is a player who can instantly turn a match on its head off the bench. It would be sheer madness not to pick him.

Agree it would be better for us if he doesn’t travel though - a refreshed Rashford will be vital next season.

True. 22 goal contributions is pretty high compared to Rashford's 13.

 

[devilish]

I don't want to sound controversial but we need to embrace reality here.

A- Rashford is an excellent player. His stats last season were off the charts. The guy had done it before. Therefore he's not a 1 year wonder thing either.
B- Not every player is cut to play for top clubs. This isn't exclusive to just talent. Some people simply lack the character to do it. There were top players before who struggled to come to terms with playing at a top club. Baggio is an example. Taibi is another. At a small club level he was one of the finest keepers in the Serie A, at times second only to Buffon. Yet once he stepped at a top club (Milan and Manchester United) he crumbled.
C- I don't blame him for wanting the highest salary possible. A footballer's career is short, their job generate loads of dosh for the club and its a highly pressured job. Yet this cuts both way. Highly paid players are expected to perform on a consistent level.

Needless to say that B and C aren't exclusive to just Rashford but in general. Even Cristiano Ronaldo came under fire when he stopped delivering the goods for United.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I don't want to sound controversial but we need to embrace reality here.

A- Rashford is an excellent player. His stats last season were off the charts. The guy had done it before. Therefore he's not a 1 year wonder thing either.
B- Not every player is cut to play for top clubs. This isn't exclusive to just talent. Some people simply lack the character to do it. There were top players before who struggled to come to terms with playing at a top club. Baggio is an example. Taibi is another. At a small club level he was one of the finest keepers in the Serie A, at times second only to Buffon. Yet once he stepped at a top club (Milan and Manchester United) he crumbled.
C- I don't blame him for wanting the highest salary possible. A footballer's career is short, their job generate loads of dosh for the club and its a highly pressured job. Yet this cuts both way. Highly paid players are expected to perform on a consistent level.

Needless to say that B and C aren't exclusive to just Rashford. Even Cristiano Ronaldo came under fire when he stopped delivering the goods for United.

17-18 league goals is off the charts now?

 

[devilish]

4 RW options and Gordon (who obviously isn’t in the same league as Rashford as a player). Even if he’s planning on playing Foden out of position on the left, Rashford is a player who can instantly turn a match on its head off the bench. It would be sheer madness not to pick him.

Agree it would be better for us if he doesn’t travel though - a refreshed Rashford will be vital next season.

Tournaments are a different beast. There's a limited amount of players one can take and the manager must make sure that every player is fully fit, his mind is fully focused on the game, he's properly motivated and is on form. Once again I am talking in general here not about 1 case.

 

[devilish]

17-18 league goals is off the charts now?

You can't deny that Rashford was great last season.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

You can't deny that Rashford was great last season.

Yeah he was great but nothing remotely close to "off the charts"

 

[devilish]

Yeah he was great but nothing remotely close to "off the charts"

Considering that we're a flawed side and that he's a winger then it kind of is. The guy scored goals against Liverpool, Arsenal (2), City, Barcelona, Chelsea and Spurs. Not many strikers can claim that in 1 season let alone a winger. Let's give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar

 

[devilish]

Why not? Sometimes a change of scene is all a player needs to unlock themselves again

I agree.

I also think that he'll smash it in France, Germany and even the Spanish Liga

 

[Doracle]

True. 22 goal contributions is pretty high compared to Rashford's 13.

Gordon having the best season of his career playing for a Newcastle team with a world class striker, and 81 league goals across the team this season. Rashford playing for this Man Utd team, with a novice playing up front and 55 league goals across the team this season. I’d expect the difference to be much greater if the positions were reversed - Rashford is simply the more talented player.

Personally, I’m not even convinced Gordon is the best LW at Newcastle - Harvey Barnes is probably better once he gets fully fit. Gordon just looks extremely average to me.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Considering that we're a flawed side and that he's a winger then it kind of is. The guy scored goals against Liverpool, Arsenal (2), City, Barcelona, Chelsea and Spurs. Not many strikers can claim that in 1 season let alone a winger. Let's give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar

We can just agree to disagree then.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Gordon having the best season of his career playing for a Newcastle team with a world class striker, and 81 league goals across the team this season. Rashford playing for this Man Utd team, with a novice playing up front and 55 league goals across the team this season. I’d expect the difference to be much greater if the positions were reversed - Rashford is simply the more talented player.

Personally, I’m not even convinced Gordon is the best LW at Newcastle - Harvey Barnes is probably better once he gets fully fit. Gordon just looks extremely average to me.

Yeah it's always the team and everything else's fault. Gordon also scored goals for Newcastle ravaged with injuries.

I don't understand statements like these. Whats the point of more talented player when you turn up once in 4 years? Who would you have in your team? A consistent 7/10 player or player who puts in 2/10 in 8 games and worldies in the rest?

 

[devilish]

Gordon having the best season of his career playing for a Newcastle team with a world class striker, and 81 league goals across the team this season. Rashford playing for this Man Utd team, with a novice playing up front and 55 league goals across the team this season. I’d expect the difference to be much greater if the positions were reversed - Rashford is simply the more talented player.

Personally, I’m not even convinced Gordon is the best LW at Newcastle - Harvey Barnes is probably better once he gets fully fit. Gordon just looks extremely average to me.

A player can be a mix of Ronaldo, Maradona and Messi but if his form is off, he's probably carrying an injury and he is currently not focused then from a national manager's point of view then he's useless. Let's not forget that a tournament is made up of few games a big chunk of whom are do or die. The manager has also a limited pool of players to choose from and once he made his choice then he cannot change his mind. The last thing a manager need is to have to rely on a player whose not producing the goods or who ends up disrupting the dressing room because he's mind is elsewhere. Once again I am speaking in general here.

 

[devilish]

We can just agree to disagree then.

I am far from a Rashy fan boy but even i think you're a tad unfair here.

 

[mikeyt]

The abuse the other night was poor, no question and there is no excusing that. You can see why everyone has had enough of him though based on this season, he basically just appears to have given up. Got his big contract and thought that'll do.

It's a legacy problem that INEOS will hopefully sort, giving silly contracts out at the wrong time to the wrong people (Ala Sancho) cannot continue.

That being said it's completely on Rashy, he played his way back into the England squad having had a top season last year but has fallen off a cliff again. Nothing wrong with a player in poor form, it happens, but he hasn't even tried so you can see why fans are so exasperated by him.

That being said I think he'll start on Sunday, give Garnacho a rest as he looks shot at the moment and given it's away from home he might feel a bit less pressure. Regardless though, I wouldn't start him in the cup final on merit.

I think he'll stay next season regardless of the manager, unless he formally asks to leave, don't see us putting him in the shop window proactively. I think INEOS will be hoping an injection of new players and exodus of some older deadwood will bring the best out of him.

 

[Escobar]

I dont mind some direct feedback to the players, even though it is a bit over the top with the insults. And with Rashy, it is not just poor form, but also attitude and effort, which the fans obviously do not appreciate (which counts for every player)

 

[RedDevil@84]

I've just deleted that last page or more of what goes for discussion these days. Criticism is fine but the sea of mindless abuse isn't. Get a grip people. We don't want to start having to hand out warnings.

Damn. I missed the conversation.

 

[Born2Lose]

4 RW options and Gordon (who obviously isn’t in the same league as Rashford as a player). Even if he’s planning on playing Foden out of position on the left, Rashford is a player who can instantly turn a match on its head off the bench. It would be sheer madness not to pick him.

Agree it would be better for us if he doesn’t travel though - a refreshed Rashford will be vital next season.

Gordon's crap, doesn't even have his own Nike collection.

 

[Wibble]

Damn. I missed the conversation.

Conversation flaters the worst comments.

 

[Oldyella]

Gordon having the best season of his career playing for a Newcastle team with a world class striker, and 81 league goals across the team this season. Rashford playing for this Man Utd team, with a novice playing up front and 55 league goals across the team this season. I’d expect the difference to be much greater if the positions were reversed - Rashford is simply the more talented player.

Personally, I’m not even convinced Gordon is the best LW at Newcastle - Harvey Barnes is probably better once he gets fully fit. Gordon just looks extremely average to me.

Rashford is supposed to be the main man of our attack. He's a large part of the reason we are on 55 league goals.

 

[Superwoofer]

Gordon having the best season of his career playing for a Newcastle team with a world class striker, and 81 league goals across the team this season. Rashford playing for this Man Utd team, with a novice playing up front and 55 league goals across the team this season. I’d expect the difference to be much greater if the positions were reversed - Rashford is simply the more talented player.

Personally, I’m not even convinced Gordon is the best LW at Newcastle - Harvey Barnes is probably better once he gets fully fit. Gordon just looks extremely average to me.

This just smacks of delusion.

If Rashy gets selected to the Euros it would be an absolute travesty - I say this as England fan first, Utd second.

He is objectively mediocre to average in so many critical aspects of football, with him having one good season in the last 3 - even the last season I think is perceived better than it was: so many times he would be his same self in games, but pop up with a goal - 17 times in the league.

Marcus has been loved and supported as a home-grown player, but his ability, application and attitude simply are not up to the standards of a top half premiership team - even in an absolutely terrible year for the team, he is shown up by very young players who while talented themselves, have a long way to go. It should be rather embarassing really.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Gordon having the best season of his career playing for a Newcastle team with a world class striker, and 81 league goals across the team this season. Rashford playing for this Man Utd team, with a novice playing up front and 55 league goals across the team this season. I’d expect the difference to be much greater if the positions were reversed - Rashford is simply the more talented player.

Personally, I’m not even convinced Gordon is the best LW at Newcastle - Harvey Barnes is probably better once he gets fully fit. Gordon just looks extremely average to me.

Its not really about talent but rather the application of said talent. By the way Rashford got 22 goal involvements last year and that's when he was meant to be firing on all cylinders. Gordon got 21 this year, and is almost 4 years younger than Rashford.

The issue with Rashford is work ethic and a bit of football intelligence.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Its no suprise he has been left out of the England squad, he doesnt deserve to be in it.