People may point out all the weaknesses in Martial's game but there is a definite danger that Jose commits another Salah mistake.
Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram
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Martial is much better at dribbling the ball than Lukaku, there's no question about that. However to say Lukaku has nothing to his game except scoring goals, or is a very limited player, is also just plain wrong.
And maybe the coach has given him those instructions, and he has not followed them? It's quite odd how some fans are simply unwilling to portion any part of the blame to Martial. When a player underperforms and doesn't show the motivation to carry out the basics, then both coach and player are at fault. It's never just one or the other.
Its not even like Martial is being asked to play as a defensive winger anyway. Some seem to be blinkered in that they see Martial in our half and assume he's asked to be a left back but thats just standard tracking that even Salah, Sterling and Sane do so their team doesn't get outnumbered. It's a myth thats only formed as an excuse for Martial.
Did these same people think Sir Alex was asking Rooney to be a defensive mid
Constantly knocking, are you for real? How has he been knocking on the door? If i'm not wrong Rashford has scored 2 goals since Sanchez signed, wouldn't call that knocking.
No in fact, a top manager uses the correct profile of player (remember when Valencia used to play over Nani?). Martial's pressing is poor due to his engine which cannot be coached, the same can be said for his defensive cover. It's virtually impossible to coach a pure forward into a midfielder, that's something that's worked on in youth football.
These are problems that have persisted since his youth days, when he was in youth football he also struggled with the defensive aspects of the game and his work rate was poor. That's just the type of player he is, LVG saw it and played him as the focal point of the attack instead of trying to turn him into a player he wasn't. The problem then arose that we didn't score enough goals because the focal point of our attack wasn't prolific enough.
Martial is a pure forward, no one can coach him into a no.10/playmaker like Hazard or Di Maria. It's impossible at this stage in his development.
Fergie did play Rooney as central mid though. Remember people hail Rooney as new Scholes?Its not even like Martial is being asked to play as a defensive winger anyway. Some seem to be blinkered in that they see Martial in our half and assume he's asked to be a left back but thats just standard tracking that even Salah, Sterling and Sane do so their team doesn't get outnumbered. It's a myth thats only formed as an excuse for Martial.
Did these same people think Sir Alex was asking Rooney to be a defensive mid
Lukaku may not have the flair Martial does when dribbling but he just as effective and surprisingly a much better crosser. In what way is Lukaku limited? I find it very doubtful that anyone who understand the game would prefer Martial over Rom right now.
Just the ones you mentioned, I reckon. Martial will come under the category of wanting to leave due to not enough game time or whatever. In our last five games he's only got minutes in the two least important games and was an unused sub for the other three. We don't need him anymore as we won the three games without him.
I do think Pereira will want to leave for the same reason though (won't play as much here as he would in Spain) and Tuanzebe will likely go out on loan again.
Was just having this conversation with a friend of mine a few minutes ago. De Bruyne too
In any attacking system it shouldn't be an either or.
It’s very difficult to build teams around young players while at the same time producing trophies and getting top 4 consistently. Its like if Chelsea had held on to Salah, Lukaku & KDB, Chelsea would have won less silverware, and perhaps also the 3 players would not have been able to develop.
I think we bought Martial too early. We should have bought him at 21 or 22 years old.
Cheers for the wonderful call out, mate. I don't come on here often so it's partially my fault for not trawling through the last 5-10 pages of this thread, otherwise I would have seen that every other poster is either making the same point or posting about how they're sick and tired of hearing the "Lukaku, De Bruyne, Salah" argument.
In reference to? I was responding to the statement people would take Martial over Lukaku.
Right on queue on the new page
Did you see what Salah did last night to Roma?
In a few years time Martial will be doing the same in Europe, for another club.
Saw it in my crystal ball.
In a few years time Martial will be doing the same in Europe, for another club.
Saw it in my crystal ball.
Seriously? wow.
Who gets game time on the left when Sanchez comes off? Most of the time it's Rashford. Do you really think he'd be getting a game if he wasn't putting in shifts in training? Or working hard for the team when he comes on? If you think this is just some sort of favouritism you're wrong. You get what you put in and right now, Martial is not putting in.
He wouldn't get into one of the worlds top teams.
@Kearnkoff69... food for thought, KDB and Salah have already been mentioned on this page alone 4 fecking times (not including your post above).
It's hilarious how desperate you all are to make a point every single United fan and no doubt Mourinho himself is aware of. Martial has potential to be a cracking player.
Yet a lot of them are reportedly interested
Yeah, I'm gutted about these cup finals and year on year improvement. Don't know what to do with myself to be honest. Guess I'll just be over here supporting Manchester United while you're supporting Martial, the boy that can do no wrong and deserves to be the first name on the team sheet if it wasn't for Jose's bias.
Maybe. If I'm honest I'm on the fence. Selling him could be a mistake but also a master stroke. Jose has won many big games recently and the board will stand by him.Right on queue on the new page
Your logic and common sense are no good here.It is quite funny how the fans who are blindfolded by an overwhelming love for Jose are trying to convince others that this isn't a mistake waiting to happen & a mistake that has happened previously.
@OldSchoolManc @Regulus Arcturus Black @vangagal and plenty plenty more..
This isn't about Martial just being some youngster the age of Lukaku, Salah & De bryune - there is plenty of youngsters who go through these problems everyday.
However De bryune, Salah, Lukaku were sold because of Jose's tactical incapacity to build a functional team with a core gameplan.
1)I remember when Jose was asking Salah to do more defensive work on the right & to track back.
2) same thing happened with de bryune; Hazard was given an almost individualistic role to play on the left; Oscar was preferred to de bryune centrally due to the more defensive work Oscar did & de bryune went to the right hand side & was asked to do a crazy amount of defensive work which is not the way to get the best out of him - you play him centrally in between the opponent defense & midfield with the team around him & he has done wonders as a hybrid AM/Cm under Pep. Again a team who knows their game plan inside out as well as the rest of the league.
Lukaku - asked to go to the right wing because Jose won't look at his squad & dream about being flexible playing a dual striker plan - instead standard 451 or a similar alternative & Lukaku gets put into the right.
Now - Martial - he is a forward who plays centrally, is able to take on the central defenders face on with the ball to feet with the ability to shift the ball left or right in to the channels. He is a player that is suited to a team that has a core game plan that gets the best out of him as well as the rest of the team. Off the top of my head; Martial would be almost a near perfect partner to play off of Lukaku on the left channel whilst Romelu plays on the right channel - the latter being better there than centrally. They could literally bounce the ball each other whilst taking on the defence. Martial & the way he dribbles is suited to create space on the sides if we ever decide to play false 9 too. Absolutely none of these tactics are going to happen under Jose because the guy is inflexible. He hasn't built an understanding of how the game should be played. Selling Martial because he isn't useful for Jose is a mistake - if the next manager who is open to getting the best out of his squad deems Martial to not be good enough - I will drive him off from old Trafford himself.
However, Jose has not managed to get the best out of his own players like Lukaku (better RF than St) Pogba (needs to be allowed more time on the ball on the ground & that is not just sorted by adding in another midfielder), Lindelof (blind is better), Bailey (Rash as Smalling in defence needs a calm head around him) etc.
That doesn't mean hel be a star player for them, or a regular starter any more than what he's been at United. Check out Turan, Dennis Suarez, Renato Sanchez, Andre Gomes, Douglas Costa for examples across the two reportedly big clubs keen (Bayern and Barcelona).
Then it's a myth that Martial doesn't work hard enough because from what I see, he's continuously tracking back to stay with his fullback.
When did Martial not bother to track back? When did he play a free role without any defensive responsibility?Its not even like Martial is being asked to play as a defensive winger anyway. Some seem to be blinkered in that they see Martial in our half and assume he's asked to be a left back but thats just standard tracking that even Salah, Sterling and Sane do so their team doesn't get outnumbered. It's a myth thats only formed as an excuse for Martial.
Did these same people think Sir Alex was asking Rooney to be a defensive mid
has he ever been responsible for a goal being conceded because he lost his man?
Genuine question
As I said mate, I take partial responsibility for not reading this thread in depth - I like to look for the usernames I generally *edit: equate, not acquaint, because English* with quality posts and then skim the rest.
If I may get a bit "meta," is this thread not doomed to be an endless cycle of people screaming "De Bruyne! Salah! Lukaku!" and other people screaming back about how the point has been made a thousand times? I mean if we want to talk about Mou's transfer policy, that's really a conversation that's going on with broader parameters and therefore producing more illuminating discussion in the "Jose Mourinho performances" thread.
This thread seems to exist solely to provide an endless feedback loop of "look at Mou's bad track record with young players with high potential" vs. everyone else saying "is that the only argument you have?" while not actually contributing with their own argument, because the the thread necessarily limits the conversation to that very narrow topic. Just my two cents.
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For sure, it is a mistake by Jose to let him leave. Really annoyed with this despite the faults Martial has.
All reports are facts.
I don't think anyone is happy for him to go. But if we buy a better RW in the process, I don't really mind if he leaves.
No one is trying to save face. If he decided to leave, there is nothing anyone can do about it. And he's not prime Messi or Ronaldo to get upset about.
You have amazing abilities if you can answer for close to a million people. What are you doing on here with such wonderful talents? Surely you should have a show in Vegas where you're raking in money as you read the minds of the audience to their astonishment, because clearly you know what everyone will say.
And you should be a math teacher.
Maths.
It doesn't matter if you see Martial 'continuously tracking back to stay with his fullback'. When you actually look at defensive contributions, its a completely different story.
Martial does not win many tackles and virtually never makes an interception. Those two things are vital for a counter attacking team as it creates a turnover of possession and the opposition team are out of position.
Martial and Rashford do not contribute enough to winning the ball back and that is why the manager said that the 'balance' of the team is not right with both of them. They only think of one dimension of the game.
Tackles + interceptions (per 90 mins):
Martial (1.04)
Rashford (1.02)
Sanchez (2.55)
Lingard (1.61)
Mata (1.44)
I wonder is Sanchez's figures so high in part due to tackling after giving the ball away so often?
English isn’t my first language, so this is probably stupid, but I don’t agree with you here.
American English it is math, in British English it is maths. He's just being pedantic.
I am a teacher and as I happens, in English English, it’s called Maths and in American English it’s only Math. So you’re both right in a way.