I'm happy as long as a player contributes towards the team in some capacity. I don't think running a lot is a criteria a striker should be judged on, being effective is. Rashford doesn't have to impress you, he's England's best young prospect and he will develop into a class act if he continues improving the way he currently is.
Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram
- Thread starter beingshe7don
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Does dispossession figures factor in misplaced passes or is it just being tackled. If it's just being tackled then Sanchez will obviously win out. If it's both then fair enough.
Kin hell. I think Martial’s a top talent but Sanchez has been one of the best player’s in the World for years.
Sanchez for example, walks straight into the first 11 in that French national side, Martial is lucky if he makes the bench.
Give your head a wobble man.
I wonder, having read today about Sanchez still feeling not fully adapted, whether (rightly or wrongly) José is trying to help him settle by being in his most natural position. If this is the case could we see him move to the right for next season I wonder...
At no point has José mentioned RW as being a summer target which leads me to believe the above and that, if Martial stays, he'll be on the left with Marcus and Sanchez on the right.
At no point has José mentioned RW as being a summer target which leads me to believe the above and that, if Martial stays, he'll be on the left with Marcus and Sanchez on the right.
So to cut that down your first few paragraphs rambled on about Sanchez being clearly better etc. However barring a couple of good recent games Sanchez has been fecking shit since he joined. Martial has been better than him all season and has the stats to prove it. If there was a danger of the team being picked based on performance levels this discussion wouldn't be happening. He'd have every reason to stay and win his place on merit. And he'd have reason to think he could do it. If they were both doing well Sanchez could play on the right for example. Sanchez has literally played 100's of matches on the right wing. Considering Martial had won us 3 games in a row prior to him joining it would have been the obvious move. I think the majority of people were surprised that he took the place of our most in form player.
Next couple paragraphs were some vague crap about Martial expecting a guaranteed place in the team despite being lazy and not defending. Nonsense basically. People being given guaranteed places is exactly the problem here and the reason he might need to leave. That's something nobody should want but it's exactly what Jose does when he decides Lukaku, Matic and Sanchez are guaranteed starters. The idea that he doesn't defend is fanciful at best but whatever, go ahead and make vague assertions without basis to back up your points, it's the internet after all.
The next 5-25 paragraphs were something like if it works out it's justified if it doesn't so be it, more fish in the sea, just back the manager regardless, modern game, no more SAFs and Wengers, blah, blah blah, I guess you just like typing.
That would make a lot more sense than creating a dead end for a player of Martial's ability. Don't believe it'll happen for a second though sadly
When we lose, it is Jose that gets slaughtered. A club the size of man utd cannot afford to waste too much time breeding too many youngsters. 1 or 2 yes but when they start getting to 3 or more it affects firs team performance. Look at the top teams in europe and none has 3 youngsters on their starting 11.
You seem to be a big fan of Sanchez! Sanchez has obviously had a great career and could very well be slightly better than Martial right here and now due to having a bit more grit and lots more experience, but when you say superior it does sound to me like you think Sanchez is on a completely different planet to Martial, which is rubbish.
Martial is a good finisher, every bit as good as Sanchez imo. Sanchez has played 14 games for us and scored 3 so far whis isn't fantastic by any means for an attacking player.
Martial has a good delivery as well, has a number of quality assists for us.
Martial may look like he doesn't give a shit about anything but he actually tracks back as well and helps out in both midfield and defence.
When did I ever say he was on another planet? I simply suggested he's a better player currently. In fact, I even said Martial could become better in the future, who knows.
Also Martial is good at those things, but currently, Sanchez is better. He's been one of the best players in the World for a while now, while Martial is still figuring out how to get the most out of his game.
Jesus, you're probably the most agressive poster on the forum mate! Easy, people are just here sharing their opinions, and they might just be different to yours.
The poster said that Sanchez was "superior", like he was comparing Messi to Obertan or something. There is just not that much between them!
*sigh*
A lot of arguments and counter arguments that lead us no where. I'd rather we allow things to pan out rather than prolong this argument. But that's just me anyway.
I know that Jose still remains one of the few in the world who can get the job done and win trophies however I personally disagree with the view that Martial can be dispensed with without making the effort to keep him as one of ours and here's my take: if he gets dispensed with, I will trust that the manager has made the right call even though I really wish a truce can bring found and Martial's contract renewed.
Goodnight folks.
A lot of arguments and counter arguments that lead us no where. I'd rather we allow things to pan out rather than prolong this argument. But that's just me anyway.
I know that Jose still remains one of the few in the world who can get the job done and win trophies however I personally disagree with the view that Martial can be dispensed with without making the effort to keep him as one of ours and here's my take: if he gets dispensed with, I will trust that the manager has made the right call even though I really wish a truce can bring found and Martial's contract renewed.
Goodnight folks.
I can't believe people think this!
That's an amazing opinion to have TBH.
Castles saying on his podcast he's told people he expects to be elsewhere next season.
Wow.
You talking about how someone is being an aggressive poster and you came up with that. Just wow.
? So all people thinks that Sanchez is on a completely different level to Martial?
Bit baffled, but thats opinions i guess.
Cause surely no one read that last sentence as that theres not much between Messi and Obertan...? Surely?
I took the best player i have ever seen (Messi) and compared him the one of the worst professional players i have seen (Obertan) to explain how i interpret ”superior”.
I do not understand why you feel the need to make a point (which admittedly is not a bad one) by being condescending and catty. It’s like if the poster you are responding to has a different opinion than you then he is just completely clueless.
You may be right that Martial is being unfairly treated and Jose will live to regret it. Doubt it as don’t think he is losing sleep over KDB or Salah. I don’t like Mou (more because of his surly demeanour, preferred playing style and his crass behaviour) and at times this season have been on the verge of calling for his head but as long as he is the United manager, he should be backed as to who plays, stays or goes. SAF had that right and so should Mou. Otherwise we’d just be Chelski where players can pout, down tools and get a manager gone. Is Martial going to be Salah II? Who knows but you seem very confident that this is a certainty. Right or wrong, Mou is about instant success and always will be. But he has continued to play Rashford and blooded McT. If Martial cannot help him to get there, and is perceived to be lacking in application (this is something neither you or anyone else as fan can confirm), then Martial is fully entitled to leave. It’s a shame, I agree, but Mou cannot be dictated to keep or play players he cannot trust.
Last edited:
Not based on this season's performances. Up until the last couple of games Sanchez has been fairly poor
Stat abuse is very strong in this post.
Dispossession itself is useless stat and then using that with tackles and interception to get (tackles+interceptions per dispossession)?
Good post. Exactly what I'm thinking. We, as fans, know close to nothing about things behind the scenes, nothing about what Jose is thinking, unsure about whether Martial will be a Henry or a Januzaj, nothing about Martial's motivation to buck down in training, and yet all the Martial fans seem to be sure of everything.
I doubt that, tbh. Maybe the smaller clubs who know they don't have a hope of attracting Sanchez, but any club which could get either would take Alexis.
Yeah it doesn't make sense to place value on aggregate stats like that, but it's also difficult to have a conversation based on only opinion when some genuinely believe Martial is as good as Sanchez right now (forgetting potential for a minute). It's like in the matchday thread I keep seeing comments like 'Martial would have scored that, 'Martial wouldn't have lost the ball there', 'Martial would have crossed it better' any time a player makes a mistake. Like Martial is the paragon of footballing perfection or something.Stat abuse is very strong in this post.
Dispossession itself is useless stat and then using that with tackles and interception to get (tackles+interceptions per dispossession)?
He's a very talented player with great potential, but let's not claim he's a world beater at the minute. I've heard a lot of criticism over Sanchez' performances for us saying that he constantly loses the ball, and yet Martial is mostly on the same level with that. But with Martial when he constantly lost the ball it got described as 'at least he was trying'. People will see what they want to see.
I think given what Sanchez has achieved in his career, and what he's shown us in the recent big games, should at least give him enough credit for people to wait and see what he does given a full season with us. But there are some fans who will jump on any player who they perceive as taking playing time away from Martial, whether that be Sanchez, or Rashford, or Lukaku. All of these players must constantly be shitted on to prove Martial deserves to start.
It's honestly frustrating. I like Martial and want him to stay, but his legion of fans who won't hear a word against him drive me up the wall. Is it necessary to pick Jose's side or Martial's side and argue blindly in favour of one over another? I think there are reasonable people arguing in this thread for both sides but it gets clouded over by the agenda posters.
I think it is fair to say that if Martial leaves and we don't replace him with another young talent but instead go for an experienced star, then the onus is on Jose to convert this side into title winners. If he wants to bet on the present instead of the future that's fine, but he has to deliver the biggest trophies to satisfy. It's a reasonable line to take as the previous coach to put his trust entirely in youth ended up getting sacked for the team not performing.
Agree with every word. This is exactly what I said in Sanchez thread few mins back. Martial fans are going against Sanchez without giving him any credit, Jose fans are going against Martial as if he is just some young player.
People have to start using their sense a little here. Sanchez is proven player and one of the best in PL. He is easily much better than Martial who is still learning his trade. He has lot of potential but at the moment Sanchez is better player.
Sanchez loses possession as he tries to create a lot, that's his first instinct. He is very direct player so when he receives the pass, his first move is to look for runners and openings. The dispossessed stat that is used is so bad and useless, you have to question people's IQ who still cling on to these stats. KdB is dispossessed more than any player in PL, it's because they try to create and also they take set pieces. Any failed set pieces is a possession lose, any set piece that is headed by their own player is chance created. That's how stats are.
I agree with your last para, if Martial is sold then Jose will be under lot of pressure. Rightly or wrongly he is fan favourite, so if you lose him and then don't improve quality of our attack then I can see fans going against him. People are even more scared as we have seen how it is when we lost Pogba and Chelsea lost Salah, KdB, Lukaku. Also Klopp somehow escaped criticism for not seeing potential in Luis Alberto who is tearing Serie A apart and he was let go for 4 million Euros. When things go well, everything is forgiven and forgotten. So if Martial is sold, it's very important to improve and move in right direction.
Lastly, it's annoying to read these agenda posts. Martial fans, Jose fans making things up to defend their hero have a go at others.
I for one can't wait to see Sanchez next season and how much he can improve with proper pre season with the team and already had a good time adapting to the new team.
Was going to respond but felt it wasn't worth it giving the way he responded. No point.
The martial fc fan boys will gloss over this, a few people have mentioned it and it has to be one of the biggest and most important points when picking a player to start games!
Frankly speaking i think Martial is a very talented lad, i see much more in him than in Januzaj (that comparison made laugh actually).
I don't understand why we haven't use him more centrally in #9 or #10 role. With his composure he should be as close to the goal as possible.
Having said this, i do flaws in his defensive game but imho it's a matter of a square peg in a round hole. He shouldn't be playing on the wing.
I don't understand why we haven't use him more centrally in #9 or #10 role. With his composure he should be as close to the goal as possible.
Having said this, i do flaws in his defensive game but imho it's a matter of a square peg in a round hole. He shouldn't be playing on the wing.
I can understand his frustration, given how much non sense keeps being repeated regarding Martial's ability. They are nowhere near each other.
It's easy to see why Mourinho doesn't trust Martial. His tracking back is poor, he can go missing for long periods in games and his body language is often terrible.
That said, his potential is clear to see and, given how difficult it is to attract top-class young players, it seems crazy to let one go when you've got them on the books.
If Ferguson was letting Martial go, fans would grumble but put up with it. Because it's Mourinho, with his dodgy track record on sales, not to mention his patchy recent record in terms of on-pitch success, it's natural for fans to worry. The Martial debate is really a debate about Mourinho by proxy.
I'd be more than happy for us to activate the extra year in Martial's contract and send him on loan, or even sell him with a buyback. In fact, if we're going to stick with Mourinho, these options seem more sensible than keeping him here.
That said, his potential is clear to see and, given how difficult it is to attract top-class young players, it seems crazy to let one go when you've got them on the books.
If Ferguson was letting Martial go, fans would grumble but put up with it. Because it's Mourinho, with his dodgy track record on sales, not to mention his patchy recent record in terms of on-pitch success, it's natural for fans to worry. The Martial debate is really a debate about Mourinho by proxy.
I'd be more than happy for us to activate the extra year in Martial's contract and send him on loan, or even sell him with a buyback. In fact, if we're going to stick with Mourinho, these options seem more sensible than keeping him here.
Good post. People on both sides of the debate need to calm down and stop being so childish.
That said, if Mourinho does sell Martial it'll only increase the pressure on him. City have won the league and Liverpool are going to be CL finalists as least; United fans will be edgy enough next year as it is. If we sell one of our best young players and then start slowly next year, the atmosphere could turn toxic very quickly.
Yeah, some stats are quite pointless. Key passes is another one, it just means passes that led to a shot. Whether that was a 2 yard pass that led to a speculative ranged effort or a defense splitting slide rule ball that created a 1 on 1. If stats are brought into the conversation they have to be more specific dealing with a particular attribute of a player's performance.
This is bang on. Someone even said on the last few pages, if you're OK with Martial leaving then fine, 'enjoy Mourinho'. It's become an issue to have a referendum on Jose rather than discussing the merits of Martial's situation itself. Which lends to the polarization of the debate.
Absolutely. I think Jose wants all the players to buy into his style and give him 100% effort, but he also needs to be careful as this could alienate the dressing room and ultimately he'd be the one to suffer an exit. The manager is bigger than any one player but if it turns into an exodus, or next season doesn't get off to a rosy start, then things can go pear shaped swiftly. We all want United to return to being title winners, so if Jose can achieve that I think all this will be forgotten. If not the board will have a tricky decision to make and they'll need to re-evaluate the 'buy our way back to the top' strategy of the last several years.
Agreed, I just can’t help myself sadly. My online persona reacts to nonsense with bewilderment, which manifests itself as aggressive replies.
As I say, I’m a fan of Martial and I think losing him would be a big risk as he’s got so much potential. But to say ”there’s not much in it” when comparing him to a player who’s been one of the World’s best for years just blows my mind.
Last edited:
Actually, this isn't always the case. Someone on here claimed that he is a big fan of both Mourinho and Martial. Yes at the same time.
I'm not making this up.I don't know if it's in this thread or the Martial thread.
[QUOTE="Gordon S, post: 22457752, member: 112449"
Sanchez is a very good player with loads of experience but he is in no way, shape or form superior to Martial.
.[/QUOTE]
This is absolutely crazy! I really like Martial, but he is nowhere near the level Sanchez has been playing at for the last few years.
Sanchez is a very good player with loads of experience but he is in no way, shape or form superior to Martial.
.[/QUOTE]
This is absolutely crazy! I really like Martial, but he is nowhere near the level Sanchez has been playing at for the last few years.
I know Sanchez has been world class for years, i completely agree! But this season hasn’t been the same for him imo. He works his socks off as usual but his end product hasn’t been great. Considering his reputation coming here i must say i’ve been underwhelmed so far.
Hope these last couple of games is a sign of improved form!
Ha ha. There’s also plenty in here that are unsure of Jose and think Martial needs to do more to be a guaranteed starter, no kidding.Actually, this isn't always the case. Someone on here claimed that he is a big fan of both Mourinho and Martial. Yes at the same time.
I don't know if it's in this thread or the Martial thread.
He’s been here for like 12 games man, ha ha. And in our two biggest games he was the best player on the pitch.
And in most of the other games he has not been great. I can't see what is wrong in pointing that out. If he goes on now and performs in most games then fair enough to put it down to settling in.
I agree with you, he's had a poor season. Not improved all that much since joining us but hopefully with a pre season he can have a positive start.
As for Martial... Young player inconsistent shock. He'll be a beast in 3 seasons time and will be added to the kdb, Salah list. Jose wants short term success and was obvious when we signed Sanchez one of him or Rashford would be off. It's in Martials best interest to move on and develop with a Manager that trusts him.
Fixed @RedSky
Mourinho doesn't have the luxury the likes of Arsene Wenger & Sir Alex Ferguson were afforded. Any United manager, like SAF before them, will need to be consistently winning big titles before they can truly think long term.
Last edited:
Not saying at all that everyone is arguing blindly, just that the ones who are, are overshadowing the rest.Actually, this isn't always the case. Someone on here claimed that he is a big fan of both Mourinho and Martial. Yes at the same time.
I don't know if it's in this thread or the Martial thread.