Still hoping for that Martial LW, Alexis RW formation 
Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I have such mixed feelings regarding Martial. He has great potential but is that talent going to be realised?
Does he have the drive or the work ethic to be a real world class player.
He is never going to chase around the pitch like a Sanchez but there are times that I just don't see the absolute desire to give everything for the team.
I don't think it is unreasonable for Jose to expect more from him.
As in the list of great players that Jose sold/loaned?
If Jose wants to shift the stigma of screwing up with youth Martial is a good option for him, but more likely he'll sell him and Martial will be world class in no time.
You are right. It was a bit condescending. I read this big interminably long spiel without much substance. I honestly felt shortchanged for my time. I'm sure my response came across horribly. I'm also sure he'll be fine.
My point is mainly based around the fact that for all this speculating Martial hasn't necessarily done anything wrong to lose his place. We can invent reasons all we want but it's very possible that Jose has just bought another one of his "untouchables" to play in his position and in that case Martial's attitude, performance, defensive work etc might mean nothing. I really hope that isn't the case but if selection was based on performance Sanchez would have been out of the team weeks ago. It's not a good sign.
I've gone from thinking Jose would never be daft enough to let Martial go to feeling he's probably giving him no real option but to leave. You'd have to wonder what the player himself is thinking. Even if he loves the club with all his heart there's no point in him staying to sit on the bench behind a guaranteed starter. every player needs to believe he has a chance of earning a place in the team if he plays better than the alternatives.
It's in his best interest to leave, no point being a potential superstar attacker and playing for Jose. I mean, half the post's discrediting him in this thread are about his tracking back...when was the last time anyone saw Ronaldo track someone back? or Messi, Salah, Neymar etc? Clubs that are serious about playing great football tend to use midfielders to negate the 2 v 1 outwide. Our football really is archaic if we have a wide forward/striker and we're more concerned about his tracking back than anything else.
For a start martial is no where near Messi or Ronaldo so that's a bad comparison.
As for Salah, you have obviously not seen him play for liverpool but are just regurgitating what some others have said!
Do yourself a favour and go and watch how hard Salah chases back and closes down all over the pitch and maybe you will see how silly your comparison is
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I'm new to the sport, explain to me why Martial and Rashford can't play at other positions. I understand and believe their natural positions are more forward/attacking roles. Seems like you'd want your best athletes on the pitch and I feel like they could be serviceable in other spots. Or does it just simply not work like that?
Salah tracks more than Martial does - but the point of mention Salah wuth martial is that Mourinho's game plan revolves heavily around tracking back & overall defensive work to the point it put a dent in Josés ability to tactically utilise the likes of de bryune & Salah.For a start martial is no where near Messi or Ronaldo so that's a bad comparison.
As for Salah, you have obviously not seen him play for liverpool but are just regurgitating what some others have said!
Do yourself a favour and go and watch how hard Salah chases back and closes down all over the pitch and maybe you will see how silly your comparison is
Formation wise - he was not flexible so could not use Lukaku as a striker at Chelsea.
Martial is a striker & sure the boy could do more work here & there - but asking him to do a defensive role at LW which he was shifted off to due to Jose's symbiosis with strikers first like ibrahimpvic & then Lukaku - Id say we would get a better attacking & defensive performance from him if he played in his position upfront.
Jose is a strong manager when it comes to his tactics - but he is a very weak manager when it comes to a generic flexibility of utilising his squad.
Jose would struggle to get the best out of a player like Firminh0 - who is arguably the best false 9 in the game atm. Give him Messi & he would not play him at false 9 either; he would stick to the 4231 & make Messi play as an individual with a list of attacking & defensive duties to pull off every game. Messi or Firminh0 is irrelevant * a player like that needs to play in relation to a team built to target a single goal or achievement. The reason why ibrahimpvic struggled at Barcelona with pep but succeeded under Jose because both are individualist & ibrahimpvic needed specific instructions whilst at Barcelona the instruction was spread across the team.
Martial might sulk a lot but his football is not going to succeed with a manager who gives martial a list of attacking & defensive duties to do as an individual. Its that weakness of the manager that overshadows Martial's development - martial is a player for a team with an idea and understanding of how to get the best out of him & surrounds him with players that suit him that all want to achieve a type of footballing style.
Jose wants a defence & an attack with it being slightly stronger on the left and more defensive on the right. Martial was never the type of striker Jose could use & shoehorned him off for zlatan, moved him to the left where he is worse but did a decent job & then replaced with Sanchez. You see tactical inflexibility by Jose to use the players at his disposal.
Defensively there is similar things too.
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He closes down, he doesn't track runners. Why do you think Salah is always in attacking positions? Take the other day, he had absolute no interest in what Kolarov was doing after he went past the half way line, we on the other hand want our attackers to come all the way back with opposition fullbacks and when they don't, they are called this and that. Take Cities attackers and tell me how many times a match do you see them block crosses from fullbacks? The problem with attackers defending so deep is that when the team regains the ball they aren't in position for a quick transition. We as a team arent a pressing side, hence our players instead track players, so you can't blame Martial for pressing. Put him in a Pep or Klopp he'd do so.For a start martial is no where near Messi or Ronaldo so that's a bad comparison.
As for Salah, you have obviously not seen him play for liverpool but are just regurgitating what some others have said!
Do yourself a favour and go and watch how hard Salah chases back and closes down all over the pitch and maybe you will see how silly your comparison is
Watch Spalletis video that he showed to his own team on salah!
He works and tracks back as hard as anyone when Liverpool loose the ball and are defending and also breaks with the same speed and intensity when they are attacking.
He works and tracks back as hard as anyone when Liverpool loose the ball and are defending and also breaks with the same speed and intensity when they are attacking.
This is Manchester United club, not Mourinho FC. If he lets Martial go and the lad shines elsewhere, Jose will not pay the compensation from his own pocket. He will also not be responsible financially for other feck ups. If Sanchez is bargain or not yet to be seen. Miki was failure,
Finally.
I'm thinking this should be the most appropriate thread to drop this here:
http://global.espn.com/football/che...or-selling-mohamed-salah-in-2016-i-bought-him
A bit of a sensationalist title, but basically saying it wasn't his decision to sell Salah.
But no Jose, the Caf has already decided you're an inept manager, and many on here would love to provide to you expert knowledge on nurturing young talents, despite your impressive trophy haul.
http://global.espn.com/football/che...or-selling-mohamed-salah-in-2016-i-bought-him
A bit of a sensationalist title, but basically saying it wasn't his decision to sell Salah.
But no Jose, the Caf has already decided you're an inept manager, and many on here would love to provide to you expert knowledge on nurturing young talents, despite your impressive trophy haul.
It doesn't, no.
He is lying.
http://chelseaseason.com/2015/07/mu...t-john-stones-filipe-luis-and-salah/12031/amp
July 2015
Mourinho in 2021 after Martial is having a Ballon D'Or worthy season for Juventus: "Oh no, I really didn't want to get rid of Martial. I did everything to keep him. It was the board's decision, you know."
He was still manager of Chelsea at the time. You expect him to say the club forced his hand? So why do you think, other than your overwhelming bias, he was telling the truth in 2015 but he's lying now?
It all depends which quotes you choose to believe, I guess.
Different quotes at different times under different circumstances.
We have already seen with Conte's outspoken nature that the Chelsea board control the transfers.
Inappropriate Behavior
What a cnut he is. Blatantly lying to cover his mistakes.
If we let him get rid of Martial, or any other first-team player who's grown frustrated with his negative tactics, it's a massive mistake.
Hope Tony gets some minutes this weekend and proves a point, the rumours of him leaving have gone fairly quiet and I still don't think we will sell him. Everyone mentions the Salah comparison but its a fair point, I wouldn't be against sending Martial on loan IF Jose isn't willing to give him more game time next year. I still think Martial at LW and Sanchez at RW, where he has had his best performances for us thus far, would be our best formation.
Yeah I know, I'm agreeing with you. That's why it was funny to me and a bit surreal to see that post. I'm pretty sure that he said that Martial and Mourinho is the biggest reason why he supports United, that's what made it even more weird. Because I don't think I ever heard someone claim such a thing.
Well that should be pretty normal, but like I said above, I never heard anyone say they are a big fan of both. Not hating both of them and having patience with them, that I understand, but being a big fan, I don't know.
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Bias? I think any unbiased person would look at those quotes and take it that he's changed his stance after being proven wrong. His 2015 quote was pretty clear. To try to infer some different meaning to absolve him comes across as way more biased.
Edit: Do you really think he wanted to keep Salah? You think they forced him to sell a player he thought was going to be great, on the cheap? If you do you're insane.
Stay classy man.
Calling a manager that won your side two trophies is his first season, followed by an FA Cup final and your best finish by a mile in 4 years & 3 managers ”a cnut”. Lovely fans we have.
That would be ideal but you're pinning a lot of your hopes on Martial improving enough in training to make Jose consider doing that and him committing to the club and signing that contract he was offered. Both those things are unlikely in my opinion.Still hoping for that Martial LW, Alexis RW formation
Maybe if Martial just signed the contract he was offered and saw squad competition necessary to his development, we wouldn't have to sell in the summer. Reality is, we can get a shit load for him this summer but we can't next when he's got 1 year left.
Blame Jose all you want but he's just doing what's best for the club at this stage.
Yes bias. Why remove it from context? Everything we know about Chelsea tells us the manager has had little to do with in going and out going transfers in recent years. Conte has made that perfectly clear. You know this, you also know that managers will not heavily criticise their board and their club if they have any ambitions of keeping their job, so why are you choosing to ignore it?
In theory, that could work, but there is a problem.
Let's use an extreme example.
Let's say that Sanchez, who is an attacker, through and through, with lots of energy and able to play at very high tempo.
He is a great athlete, who keeps himself in a good shape.
Let's say that we put Martial on the LW. So (given the above), we decide to play Sanchez as a central defender (CB). The issue here is that though Sanchez is great in attack and can make tackles, his physique (and skills) are not suited to being a CB. My guess is that even a U18 good CB, would be better than Sanchez in that position. So, if Rashford/Martial were to play in midfield or defence, for example, most likely there will be players (who aren't even that good) who would be better in that position, simply because that is their specialist position that they are best at.
The best thing to do is play a player in the position that he is best at. Unfortunately, when you have 2-3 very good players for that one position (ie. LW), someone has to miss out.
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I've long maintained that there are people in here, who claim to MUFC fans, are actually fans of rival clubs who have created accounts, for a laugh.
No supporter would talk that way about a manager who is doing the best job, since SAF left.
These are the same people who also talk up rival managers and players, who are worse than our own.
Wouldn't have believed it until this season when many people have shown their true colours. It's either that or there's a lot of people who hate Mourinho more than they love United.
The question is actually an important one because it highlights major deficiencies in Martial's game. It also suggest a low level of tactical understanding as well.
Top forwards are able to play both wings often at a young age. Robben is very one dimensional, however it is by choice as he was very good on the opposite wing for Chelsea. Sanchez can pretty much play in every position in attack including striker and no.10. Lukaku is our best right winger and has great wing play in him from both sides.
Martial seems to only see the game in one direction, which is a problem. He has to operate in the left sided half space, he can't play in any other areas to a high level. Even when he was a striker for half a season under LVG he was an off-centre striker mainly playing from the left.
Sorry mate but your logic has no place here, too many people upset with the idea that Martial will be world class because it suits their narrative about Jose. The reality is that Martial needs to sign his contract and prove he wants to be part of United, you don't give game time to a player who's purposely running his contract down.
This. Excellent point. I honestly get tired of all the people speaking about how much hard work City and Liverpool players do whereas ours are not. Put Sane or Mane or Salah in a Mourinho side, they'd be extremely average in our attack, Salah would not get 10 goals all season.
Basically Mourinho would never publicly tell a player to leave, but he won't support them either. They will have no choice but to leave of their own volition and when they turn world class, Mourinho would pipe up and say I never wanted to sell him.
Well, we just have to wait and hear what Martial has to say on this then shall we?
Best post in this thread, been trying to say the same thing but didnt find the words. Even under Lvg Our wingers didnt get as deep as now, and Martial got in 1v1 positions way more.
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Mate you were warned for bad language, what, a week ago?
No offence, but getting lessons in online etiquette from you is like getting lessons in cinematography from the director of Twilight.
A couple of more specific points:
1. He won the Europa League and League Cup. We used to mock Liverpool fans for celebrating those 'achievements'.
2. Just because he's improved our performance on the pitch doesn't mean I, or anyone else, can't find him offensive on a personal level.
Fair points mate. Still, the fact that Mourinho makes these mistakes then lies about them is galling.
Of course but come on. His quote is fairly clear. He said it was better not to have Salah back. There was no pressure on him to go that far. You didn't answer my other question also. Do you think Jose wanted to keep him? Was he sold against his will? I think that's highly unlikely
Are you really getting caught up over a bad word or two? I hope neither of you go to matches in real life or talk to people about football. Could be upsetting for you. How about just get on with it instead of trying to sanitise everything.
Mate, Fergie is still adamant he had nothing to do with Moyes!
I think it's difficult for any manager at Chelsea with the model they've been using. Abromovich wants instant success and bearing in mind that Jose had already been sacked from Chelsea once due to them going through a slight period of transition, I'm not surprised the likes of KDB, Salah and Lukaku were sold on.
You don't get time there to bring through and nurture young talent and that's if we're operating under the impression the Chelsea manager is even the person responsible for all signings and sales at the club, that's another debate.
I'd go as far to say that if we had signed those three instead of Chelsea and we had Jose as our coach at the time, we'd still have those three players.