Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram

[crossy1686]

American English it is math, in British English it is maths. He's just being pedantic.

Snap!

 

[SteveW]

Not to have a dig at Jose. I'm on his side generally but Martial is a terrific player and it's pretty obvious Jose bought Sanches to take his position. That's pretty pathetic squad building.

I've absolutely no idea why Jose seems so happy to continuously fail when it comes to developing world class young talents. Working with the likes of Salah, De Bruyne and Martial should be a dream come true for a manager. Most managers would kill to be able to say they moulded and developed some of the great players. It's just very very strange. Fergie would have dragged every ounce of talent out of a player like Martial.

 

[Bratt]

American English it is math, in British English it is maths. He's just being pedantic.

Got you, didn’t know that. Always thought of mathematics being a noun (mass noun?) so math seems more logic to me, but I guess I’m just more influenced by American english than Britain english then.
Back to Martial we go, sorry for derailing.

 

[AR87]

I wonder is Sanchez's figures so high in part due to tackling after giving the ball away so often?

Potentially but he's absolutely rabid about getting the ball back. It's one of his more incredible qualities though he has a tendency to chase the ball in those instances rather than falling back into the defensive shape, which creates some issues at times.

 

[SteveW]

It would be hard to blame Martial for moving on. Sanches and Lukaku are guaranteed starters in his positions. No matter how well he plays the chances of Jose picking him on a regular basis over either are between slim to nil. There's literally no incentive for him to stay and fight

 

[breakout67]

I wonder is Sanchez's figures so high in part due to tackling after giving the ball away so often?

Those are league figures so lets look at dispossession per 90 minutes:

Martial (3.06)
Rashford (1.49)
Sanchez (3.35)
Lingard (0.81)
Mata (0.98)

Combining that with tackles and interceptions to see how they compare relative to dispossession (tackles + interceptions per dispossession per 90 mins):

Martial (0.34)
Rashford (0.68)
Sanchez (0.76)
Lingard (1.99)
Mata (1.47)

Martial is very very poor at defensive contribution compared to his peers.

 

[vangagal]

Not to have a dig at Jose. I'm on his side generally but Martial is a terrific player and it's pretty obvious Jose bought Sanches to take his position. That's pretty pathetic squad building.

I've absolutely no idea why Jose seems so happy to continuously fail when it comes to developing world class young talents. Working with the likes of Salah, De Bruyne and Martial should be a dream come true for a manager. Most managers would kill to be able to say they moulded and developed some of the great players. It's just very very strange. Fergie would have dragged every ounce of talent out of a player like Martial.

Thats a new way to having a dig at Jose mate.

 

[SteveW]

Thats a new way to having a dig at Jose mate.

What?

 

[SteveW]

Those are league figures so lets look at dispossession per 90 minutes:

Martial (3.06)
Rashford (1.49)
Sanchez (3.35)
Lingard (0.81)
Mata (0.98)

Combining that with tackles and interceptions to see how they compare relative to dispossession (tackles + interceptions per dispossession per 90 mins):

Martial (0.34)
Rashford (0.68)
Sanchez (0.76)
Lingard (1.99)
Mata (1.47)

Martial is very very poor at defensive contribution compared to his peers.

You'd hardly get rid of a 22 years old with another 10 good years in him for a 29 year old over half an interception per game. Does that really mean anything in the overall scheme of things?

 

[Milkman007]

Who gets game time on the left when Sanchez comes off? Most of the time it's Rashford. Do you really think he'd be getting a game if he wasn't putting in shifts in training? Or working hard for the team when he comes on? If you think this is just some sort of favouritism you're wrong. You get what you put in and right now, Martial is not putting in.

So your happy with attacking players as long as they are putting in a shift and running a lot? Rashford never really impress me when he comes of the bench, and he hasn't been impressive since coming from the bench in a long time, Defiantly not knocking on the LW position.

 

[Hughie77]

If he wants a move leave him. If he wants to stay he needs to pull his socks up and get on with it. Who knows what happens next season.
More players to come in ,play style may change and he starts more games . Hope he stays hes a player for us.

 

[SapperBRed75]

People may point out all the weaknesses in Martial's game but there is a definite danger that Jose commits another Salah mistake.

Martial is at a similar stage of development/age as both Salah and De Bruyne when Mourinho moved them on. Jose has been looking to bring in players who are ready to play his way - 'finished articles' to deliver results. Tangible improvement season on season and player development aren't always coherent priorities. Subjectively, it is a great shame that Tony M has been shunted to the right or put on the bench since Sanchez has arrived - particularly since he had scored in three games on the trot at the point Alexis arrived at OT and seemed to be building momentum. I think he is a really exciting prospect and would be devastated to see him go. Apparently Thierry Henry stated Martial is better than he was at the same stage (or words to that effect). Hope Tony keeps a lid on any attitude; hope we keep him.

 

[SteveW]

If he wants a move leave him. If he wants to stay he needs to pull his socks up and get on with it. Who knows what happens next season.
More players to come in ,play style may change and he starts more games . Hope he stays hes a player for us.

I don't see why he'd want to stay. Sanches and Lukaku will play every game. What difference would pulling his socks up and getting on with it make? He'd still be sitting on the bench every week

 

[breakout67]

You'd hardly get rid of a 22 years old with another 10 good years in him for a 29 year old over half an interception per game. Does that really mean anything in the overall scheme of things?

Martial makes 0.18 interceptions per 90 mins. Sanchez makes 1.16 interceptions per 90 mins. This means that Sanchez outperforms Martial in this aspect by a factor of 6+.

 

[SteveW]

Martial makes 0.18 interceptions per 90 mins. Sanchez makes 1.16 interceptions per 90 mins. This means that Sanchez outperforms Martial in this aspect by a factor of 6+.

Almost one interception per game then. Big fecking deal. Should just get James McLean in.

 

[BluesJr]

I’d like to see people try and defend Mourinho over this if Martial moves and shows a Salah/De Bruyne level of growth.

Hopefully he can stay.

 

[edgar allan]

Those are league figures so lets look at dispossession per 90 minutes:

Martial (3.06)
Rashford (1.49)
Sanchez (3.35)
Lingard (0.81)
Mata (0.98)

Combining that with tackles and interceptions to see how they compare relative to dispossession (tackles + interceptions per dispossession per 90 mins):

Martial (0.34)
Rashford (0.68)
Sanchez (0.76)
Lingard (1.99)
Mata (1.47)

Martial is very very poor at defensive contribution compared to his peers.

Aren't stats very interesting, you could argue that Sanchez is 4 times more wasteful with the ball than Lingard!

 

[edgar allan]

Got you, didn’t know that. Always thought of mathematics being a noun (mass noun?) so math seems more logic to me, but I guess I’m just more influenced by American english than Britain english then.
Back to Martial we go, sorry for derailing.

Never apologise for a diversion that is educational for us all!!

 

[breakout67]

Aren't stats very interesting, you could argue that Sanchez is 4 times more wasteful with the ball than Lingard!

He absolutely is. I would say that the stats back up what we see on the pitch with Lingard, he is much more proficient in midfield than Sanchez. It's also why Lingard gets picked often, because he allows us to be more efficient with the ball and gives us more control of it.

 

[edgar allan]

He absolutely is. I would say that the stats back up what we see on the pitch with Lingard, he is much more proficient in midfield than Sanchez. It's also why Lingard gets picked often, because he allows us to be more efficient with the ball and gives us more control of it.

And Mata, Rashford also don't forget. I'd suggest that every player in the teams figures are much better than his, with only Pogba being close.

It takes no account of the risk of the pass. Pass backwards everytime and you never give the ball away.

 

[breakout67]

And Mata, Rashford also don't forget. I'd suggest that every player in the teams figures are much better than his, with only Pogba being close.

It takes no account of the risk of the pass. Pass backwards everytime and you never give the ball away.

If you want to look at risk of pass, then you can look at chances created as a portion of dispossessions. I don't have the time to get the exact figures, but Sanchez and Martial are both very good at creating chances relative to their loss of ball, Sanchez is marginally better but probably by an insignificant amount.

 

[Greck]

It went well with Pogba, isnt it? Also, his head too big for his body Isco remember? Bebe anyone? For all his greatness, by no means he is without faults sometimes

SAF didn't sell Pogba. He pretty much persuaded him to stay because he saw the talent. I suggest you read up on the events in the final months leading to Pogba's exit.

 

[Smores]

Then it's a myth that Martial doesn't work hard enough because from what I see, he's continuously tracking back to stay with his fullback.

Huh I didn't say he did, if he has lack of effort its offensive movement.

 

[vangagal]

SAF didn't sell Pogba. He pretty much persuaded him to stay because he saw the talent. I suggest you read up on the events in the final months leading to Pogba's exit.

Isnt that prety the same? Why would Fergie let massive talent go? Cant he just give him playing time and bit of bumper salary back then? Why calling Scholes back then? He said it was Raiola mistake to let Pogba go innit? When in fact he can assure Pogba who is upcoming young talent at time games time. What the difference between Martial's? He has a more experience player in front of him too. As matter in fact, we do offer Martial new deal, so whos problem is it now? Judging by history records said, its 89 millions pounds mistake.

 

[theREDMAN]

good thing he wasn't our player of the month or anything before we shunted his ass right back to the bench after signing alexis. Really don't understand that signing. One good half from Sanchez doesn't really take away from how poor he has been for us and didn't exactly help our champions league campaign. Really hope we don't sell him, especially for a manager who has about a 5 percent chance of being here in a couple of years.

I think we all thought Alexis was coming in to give us balance by playing on the right like he did at Barca. Most United fans probably wouldn’t even want the Alexis deal now we seen what has happened to Martial.

 

[Leftback99]

I would never have bought Sanchez to replace him but can't blame him for leaving now with slim chances of starting when Lukaku and Sanchez are fit. Hopefully we finally buy a right sided attacker if he does go.

Article below makes some good points:

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[VP89]

I would never have bought Sanchez to replace him but can't blame him for leaving now with slim chances of starting when Lukaku and Sanchez are fit. Hopefully we finally buy a right sided attacker if he does go.

Article below makes some good points:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

He's tweeting like it's an I told you so article.. Id choose Sanchez over Martial and he became available. Its that simple at this stage. Martial will get chances if he performs in training and shows enough hunger to make certain positions his own, which he should be doing at 22.

 

[Greck]

Isnt that prety the same? Why would Fergie let massive talent go? Cant he just give him playing time and bit of bumper salary back then? Why calling Scholes back then? He said it was Raiola mistake to let Pogba go innit? When in fact he can assure Pogba who is upcoming young talent at time games time. What the difference between Martial's? He has a more experience player in front of him too. As matter in fact, we do offer Martial new deal, so whos problem is it now? Judging by history records said, its 89 millions pounds mistake.

Yeah SAF screwed up but it wasn't the same as not seeing his talent. At the time it was far deeper than that. He and Raiola got into a willie measuring contest of sorts. Fergie had a serious dislike for agent power. We reportedly missed out on hazard because of SAF not wanting his agent to pocket 4m from the transfer.

 

[vangagal]

Yeah SAF screwed up but it wasn't the same as not seeing his talent. At the time it was far deeper than that. He and Raiola got into a willie measuring contest of sorts. Fergie had a serious dislike for agent power. We reportedly missed out on hazard because of SAF not wanting his agent to pocket 4m from the transfer.

What was far deeper than that? Its simple. Give Pogba games time and salary he will stay. Its not like he demand 100k back then. Yes. I wish Fergie just paid that bloody 4mil back then. Its a bit tricky with Fergie. You can pointed his mistake but you can't said those pointed mistake because its Fergie the man right?

 

[ti vu]

I wonder is Sanchez's figures so high in part due to tackling after giving the ball away so often?

It's still better than letting resume their normal attack and you have to track back the whole length of the pitch and another round to get back up.

For all the tidy work, Martial is not exactly any better than Alexis in passing completion stats while behind in variety of passes: long ball from deep, through ball and key passes. So Alexis tried more but ended up with acceptable similar percentage, it yielded more product as "working more" in game. Also remember this is so called a frustrating season for Alexis where he has been not at his best most of the time.

So if Martial can marry his tidiness with more workrate (not just defensive stuff), then I have high hope he is a better player than Alexis who I wrote in unpopular opinion way back is like bottom of top class players. He doesn't do it, not meeting expectation, we sure can be frustrated.

Edit: I used stats from Whoscored

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

We fecking get it, bore off for God's sake.

It doesn't need repeating 5 times on every fecking page, tedious as feck. Martial could just as easily go on to be the next Cuadrado, Juan Mata, Schurle.

Eh it's a forum. Those are people offering some legitimate concerns. You are free to put them on ignore.

 

[spiriticon]

If Martial goes, I'm sure there's always another 18 year old young talent we could buy to replace him.

Hope he stays and knuckles down though. Force his way into the lineup. He's good enough.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Eh it's a forum. Those are people offering some legitimate concerns. You are free to put them on ignore.

Aye it’s a forum @Mr.Ridiculous__ and that’s exactly why people should read a little of the thread before posting the same recycled post 5 times per page, that way we can actually move the conversation on somewhere.
Otherwise we’re just a bunch of loons, shouting at the mirror in a padded room.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Article below makes some good points:

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— Twitter API (@user) date

Nice ”I told you so” tweet.

”I told you Sanchez would be MOTM in stopping City winning the league versus United in record time”.

”I told you Sanchez would once again be the best player on the park whilst taking United to an FA Cup final”.

What an absolute prat.

 

[Womp]

SAF didn't sell Pogba. He pretty much persuaded him to stay because he saw the talent. I suggest you read up on the events in the final months leading to Pogba's exit.

It's almost an identical situation. SAF didn't think he was ready to play/preferred other players, opting for defenders to play in midfield over him ffs. Pogba thought he was ready to play and left to develop his game at another team. SAF didn't push him out, Pogba wanted to leave, same way Jose isn't pushing Martial out, Martial wants to leave. I'm sure both managers would have been delighted if both players decided to stay and wait for their chance, but that's not how football works.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

SAF didn't sell Pogba. He pretty much persuaded him to stay because he saw the talent. I suggest you read up on the events in the final months leading to Pogba's exit.

The Pogba situation was almost exactly the same situation as KDB.

KDB thought he was ready and wanted to play. Jose thought KDB wasn't ready yet. Jose lead his team to the title. Jose saw the talent and wanted him to stay, KDB didn't want to.

Swap the names for SAF & Pogba and it's well...

 

[Womp]

You'd hardly get rid of a 22 years old with another 10 good years in him for a 29 year old over half an interception per game. Does that really mean anything in the overall scheme of things?

As has been said, Jose isn't getting rid of him. Martial wants to leave. Jose's always said he just won't stand in the way of players who want to leave, as it should be. Keeping unsettled players will never be good for squad harmony etc.

He's behind a player who is simply better than him at the current moment, whether he will become a better player in the future and what not, I don't know, but as of now, Sanchez is a superior player, who offers more to the team, who also suits our style and tactics going forward more. I'd wager if we were to win major trophies next season, he'd have a big part to play in them too.

If Martial doesn't want to wait for his chance that's completely in his right but it's not Jose's doing. He had the opportunity to sign one of the best players in the league, no manager would turn that opportunity down for a player who is still young and who still has a lot of flaws in his game. Pep was extremely interested in Sanchez on two occasions, the summer and Jan, even with how good Sane and Sterling were for them, one of those two would have been in a similar situation to Martial now, as is the case with many young talents around the World at big clubs.

He will get chances like all players will, but if he wants guaranteed game time, he's at the wrong club. All this nonsense about him not needing to contribute defensively or work off the ball is crazy. It's the top level of football, some of the teams that the majority on here cream themselves over are in part so enjoyable to watch due to their movement and energy. Firminho is probably the hardest worker in the league. To want that sort of entertainment but to be happy watching Martial stroll around the pitch whenever he doesn't have the ball at his feet makes no sense to me. There's more to contributions off the ball and defensively than simply 'tracking back'. There's the positional aspect, closing down of players, making runs off the ball into the channels etc. These are all aspects of the game where Sanchez and yes, even Lingard are better than Martial at. This isn't taking away from his immense talent, his ball control and finishing are top notch.

Like I've said, I'd be gutted if he leaves because he can be a top player, but if he does he won't be the first or last great talent that didn't make it here. We've been fine losing far better players in the past. If he really wants to leave, there's no point keeping him on. If Jose manages to win some proper silverware with his replacement next season, his decision was justified, if he doesn't and Martial does so with his next team, playing a huge part, then his decision wasn't justified and I'm sure years later people will still be giving him shit for it just like with KDB and Salah etc. which i've read a trillion times on here now. Regardless, his criticism would be deserved and we'd be fine, we aren't strapped for cash and there is a plethora of young talented players and there always will be.

Also people saying we should keep Martial because Jose might not stay for long have a point. Although that's what's always going to happen when the board is intent on giving managers full control of squads yet refusing to implement a DOF system. Managers are always going to think of ways to win in the now, especially with how competitive and short-term the sport is becoming. They need to win because it's their job on the line and realistically they'll only get what, 2-3 years with a team?

The days of the SAF's and Wenger's are gone. Managers come in, need to implement their ideas quick and win. Not sacrifice important aspects of a team just to simply keep a young player happy that they probably won't ever work with again. If said young players meets their criteria, they'll play, if they don't, can you really blame managers for opting to go with players who they think will bring them success? They should then rightly be judged on whether or not it was the right approach.

 

[catmandeu]

I can see that the forum is divided about wether martial works hard to stay in the team or not . I think working hard doesn't means the physical aspect of it . Not all players run like headless chicken all over the field . Some players have a better sense of under standing their spaces and thus working hard means honing the technical aspects of the game. But what can you do if the manager doesn't let the player show his technical side, judges an attacker on how he can track back and defend , plays him on a wrong side ? Well , then the player has to leave the club for a team that suits his style .

However, if the manager is smart manager and understands that quality team depth is very important to challenge for multiple trophies, if the manager thinks that a talented player like that can be used as impact player , if the manager has enough talent to manage his squad mentality then I think martial could stay. What I want though is Anthony martial should for a strike pair with lukaku up top .

 

[Gordon S]

As has been said, Jose isn't getting rid of him. Martial wants to leave. Jose's always said he just won't stand in the way of players who want to leave, as it should be. Keeping unsettled players will never be good for squad harmony etc.

He's behind a player who is simply better than him at the current moment, whether he will become a better player in the future and what not, I don't know, but as of now, Sanchez is a superior player, who offers more to the team, who also suits our style and tactics going forward more. I'd wager if we were to win major trophies next season, he'd have a big part to play in them too.

If Martial doesn't want to wait for his chance that's completely in his right but it's not Jose's doing. He had the opportunity to sign one of the best players in the league, no manager would turn that opportunity down for a player who is still young and who still has a lot of flaws in his game. Pep was extremely interested in Sanchez on two occasions, the summer and Jan, even with how good Sane and Sterling were for them, one of those two would have been in a similar situation to Martial now, as is the case with many young talents around the World at big clubs.

He will get chances like all players will, but if he wants guaranteed game time, he's at the wrong club. All this nonsense about him not needing to contribute defensively or work off the ball is crazy. It's the top level of football, some of the teams that the majority on here cream themselves over are in part so enjoyable to watch due to their movement and energy. Firminho is probably the hardest worker in the league. To want that sort of entertainment but to be happy watching Martial stroll around the pitch whenever he doesn't have the ball at his feet makes no sense to me. There's more to contributions off the ball and defensively than simply 'tracking back'. There's the positional aspect, closing down of players, making runs off the ball into the channels etc. These are all aspects of the game where Sanchez and yes, even Lingard are better than Martial at. This isn't taking away from his immense talent, his ball control and finishing are top notch.

Like I've said, I'd be gutted if he leaves because he can be a top player, but if he does he won't be the first or last great talent that didn't make it here. We've been fine losing far better players in the past. If he really wants to leave, there's no point keeping him on. If Jose manages to win some proper silverware with his replacement next season, his decision was justified, if he doesn't and Martial does so with his next team, playing a huge part, then his decision wasn't justified and I'm sure years later people will still be giving him shit for it just like with KDB and Salah etc. which i've read a trillion times on here now. Regardless, his criticism would be deserved and we'd be fine, we aren't strapped for cash and there is a plethora of young talented players and there always will be.

Also people saying we should keep Martial because Jose might not stay for long have a point. Although that's what's always going to happen when the board is intent on giving managers full control of squads yet refusing to implement a DOF system. Managers are always going to think of ways to win in the now, especially with how competitive and short-term the sport is becoming. They need to win because it's their job on the line and realistically they'll only get what, 2-3 years with a team?

The days of the SAF's and Wenger's are gone. Managers come in, need to implement their ideas quick and win. Not sacrifice important aspects of a team just to simply keep a young player happy that they probably won't ever work with again. If said young players meets their criteria, they'll play, if they don't, can you really blame managers for opting to go with players who they think will bring them success? They should then rightly be judged on whether or not it was the right approach.

Sanchez had a good second half against City and overall a good game against Spurs, but other than that he's been pretty sloppy in possession, simply giving the ball away on numerous occasions, losing 50/50s etc.
Sanchez is a very good player with loads of experience but he is in no way, shape or form superior to Martial.
Perhaps Sanchez is a better fit for a team managed by Mourinho but thats a different thing.

 

[Womp]

Sanchez had a good second half against City and overall a good game against Spurs, but other than that he's been pretty sloppy in possession, simply giving the ball away on numerous occasions, losing 50/50s etc.
Sanchez is a very good player with loads of experience but he is in no way, shape or form superior to Martial.
Perhaps Sanchez is a better fit for a team managed by Mourinho but thats a different thing.

Rubbish. Comparing a handful of games when Sanchez has come in to a completely new team in January, coupled with probably our hardest run in of games all season. Not to add, Sanchez has always been notorious for turning the ball over a lot, it's not news. It's du to him always being proactive and trying to force the issue, was the same at Arsenal. Sanchez is better at getting involved all over the pitch, a better finisher with more variety (to be able to change direction and score the header like he did isn't something I associate with Martial), his delivery is better, his movement off the ball is superior, his ability to drop into midfield and defence is better, his ability to win the ball back is better, his leadership abilities, his understanding of the game, his desire etc. just to name a few. Meanwhile only areas I'd say Martial is better is his dribbling and ball control, even then, it's better, but not always more effective. Sanchez simply has much more to his game.

Most teams would probably prefer Martial to Sanchez, simply due to age and Martial's incredible potential. To suggest Martial is better than one of the best players in the league who has won everything, being a major factor in some incredible wins like the Copa America etc. is rubbish to me though.