MURDA MASE
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 49
- Goals
- 17
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 0
- Status
According to good ol garth crooks we'll need to fend off barca and Madrid to keep Mason. 
Garth Crooks is still employed?!According to good ol garth crooks we'll need to fend off barca and Madrid to keep Mason.
Martial also has elite elite close control and speed of dribbling which Mason doesn't have or hasn't shown yet. Mason comes alive in and around the box. Martial influences anywhere he picks up the ball purely down to his dribbling.
I agree with this, but it's important to note that Martial's dribbling isn't elite. It's good, but not elite. He had the makings of an elite dribbler after his first season (age 19/20 season), but he hasn't built off that like say someone like Hazard did.
I believe Greenwood has superior vision to Martial, but he largely hasn't shown it yet at first team level. So their differences leading to who is more talented is a tougher call than what it initially seems. Martial is a little better in close control which leads to superior dribbling, where Mason will likely have better vision and two footedness. Thus far Mason has shown he's the better finisher at the same stage of their careers. This is Greenwood's age 17/18 season where as Martial's first season with United was his age 19/20 season, which would be Greenwood in 2021/22.
It seems easy, but being full of sh!t every day and never letting it check your stride, it's not easy. Sure, anyone could do better, but could they pull things out of their a$$ daily for decades? I wonder.
Martial doesn't have much speed to his dribbling. He's all about slow speed feints and changes of direction.
Greenwood's close control is just as good, but he can do it at a much quicker pace. Once he gets strong enough to bounce off body checks, I think he'll end up being regarded as one of the top 10 dribblers in the world.
The big difference between them is that Martial is a fair bit quicker without the ball, so he can hurt defences in a slightly different way.
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Of course he won't be no Messi. Messi is Messi, a player we probably see once in a hundred years.
But he's more talented than Martial imo. Martial is a great dribbler but his decision making when he was 19 was pretty average. And his finishing is only good with his right foot. What's special about Mason is his ability to finish with both his foot, with equally exceptional accuracy and power. And he has one of the best hips I've seen.
I play football myself. And we really hate to face strikers who are two footed.
A defender usually has to turn sideway when facing a striker so he won't be nutmegged, and he'll take the side of the striker's stronger foot so he can block the shoot. With a two footed striker this becomes impossible. You don't know when and which foot he'd shoot with. And with Greenwood it's even more difficult. His trademark stepover move helps him to confuse the defender even more and hide his shooting foot really well.
For a goalie, it's equally bad. Usually a goalie will guess when the striker would shoot and where the ball would go by watching his stronger foot. Then move and prepare accordingly. With a two footed striker he just can't. So most of the time he has to rely on his reflexes only. And when he's on reflexes only a goalie usually can only raise his arm without much strength within. And if without much strength and the kind of power Greenwood is delivering with both his foot, the ball usually beats the goalie's arm and goes in. It's a nightmare.
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Dunno, haven't seen this dribbling ability of Mason. He definitely has in his locker to make little feints that sends defenders in the other direction and allows him to use his lethal shot, but not excellent dribbling ability like for example Sancho or Hazard etc.
Saying that I think he is definitely Ballon D'Or talent. In fact, I would be disappointed if he does not end with a Ballon d'Or. I am not even joking, as good as Rooney was in his first season here, and as promising and exciting Ronaldo was, I think that Mason has been better than them. He is our best academy product since Giggs, if not Best. Injuries aside, we have a phenomenon in our hands.
With regards to Martial comparisons, right now, the only things that Martial has on him is leading the line/keeping the ball, heading and being stronger. Greenwood has a better finish and is faster. I think that both of Martial and Rashford are still better than him, but in 2-3 years there won't even be a debate about who is our best player.
I'd suggest toning down the hype. Definite Balon Dor talent. Comparisons to Messi. It all seems a bit much. Rooney was also expected to win every accolade possible to win - Balon Dor, world cup etc. When he banged 3 in against Fernabace, dominated at the Euros, he had all time great written all over him. And he is an all time great just not the Balon Dor winning level player people expected. Same with Giggs and Fabregas. Development isn't linear and there's a lot of factors involved in how far you can go - mentality, the club you're at, fitness record, chemistry with team mates, how much you work on your flaws etc
I hope the comparisons to Messi were more stylistic in nature. He does share that maturity and effortlessness with him. But he's not the freak that Messi is, who is like the only 'alien' footballer I've witnessed, someone I can't actually fathom - to be that incredible at that many things. Mason I'd say is incredible at specific things - like his finishing for example. And that's fantastic too.
I'd temper my own expectations. If he develops into a Balon Dor winner, a home grown Manchester United player doing that, it would be Incredible. But right now I'm at "top player potential." If he ends up along the best 5-7 strikers in the game that's a hell of an achievement in itself. Rooney level if you will. He was a truly magnificent footballer btw, for those that are going to moan.
I hope the comparisons to Messi were more stylistic in nature. He does share that maturity and effortlessness with him. But he's not the freak that Messi is, who is like the only 'alien' footballer I've witnessed, someone I can't actually fathom - to be that incredible at that many things. Mason I'd say is incredible at specific things - like his finishing for example. And that's fantastic too.
I'd temper my own expectations. If he develops into a Balon Dor winner, a home grown Manchester United player doing that, it would be Incredible. But right now I'm at "top player potential." If he ends up along the best 5-7 strikers in the game that's a hell of an achievement in itself. Rooney level if you will. He was a truly magnificent footballer btw, for those that are going to moan.
It's just not true. And Mason is not faster.
Messi? Really? They have nothing in common.
I don’t think that I mentioned Messi.
I think that most people would be happy if he ends up at a similar level to Rooney. I just think that he has definitely the talent to surpass it, and win a Ballon D’Or or two.
Of course, the future is unpredictable but honestly, I haven’t seen many more talented players than him.
These type of hype were fine for Mbappe too, and Mason looks every bit as good as Mbappe was at this age.
Well, some would argue that Rooney too had the talent to surpass the level he reached and I'd be one of them. So there's an argument for that. I just feel you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you feel you'd be disappointed if he doesn't end up winning one.
I mean, Luis Suarez and Theirry Henry never won the Balon Dor. Robben and Rooney never won the Balon Dor. Xavi and Iniesta never won the Balon Dor. Sure, many of them played in the era of Messi and Ronaldo. But you never know who dominates it in the next decade. Greenwood could even consistently be the 2nd/3rd best player in the world and still manage to not win it ever, due to it mainly being a CL and WC award.
Anyhoo, I hope you're right and he reaches there. I think you're comment is more to do with him being the sort of player in contention for these individual awards anyway, which is of course high praise of his talent. Hope his trajectory continues on this path.
What I also like is how composed he is. He seems calm as feck no matter what situation the match is in our how frantic the play. He doesn't really do sloppy does he ? It's always efficient and effective from young Mason.
Would be interested to see how he grows as a personality. I look at Mbappe and he seems to have a sense of maturity and attitude (not quite arrogance but close) to him. He doesn't seem to be a 'boy'. Messi always had that from the get go, quite chap but on the pitch he had that fire. Rooney was a real competitor from the start. Mason comes across as calm but his personality from afar looks a bit like Martials (quiet , contained etc ). For those who have seen him more from the youth teams, what's he like, can we expect to him to take all challenges (defenders targetting him, roughing him up etc ) in his stride and respond fiercely ?
Would be interested to see how he grows as a personality. I look at Mbappe and he seems to have a sense of maturity and attitude (not quite arrogance but close) to him. He doesn't seem to be a 'boy'. Messi always had that from the get go, quite chap but on the pitch he had that fire. Rooney was a real competitor from the start. Mason comes across as calm but his personality from afar looks a bit like Martials (quiet , contained etc ). For those who have seen him more from the youth teams, what's he like, can we expect to him to take all challenges (defenders targetting him, roughing him up etc ) in his stride and respond fiercely ?
I think he is faster. I didn't think he was that fast either until this:
https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/...an-utd-player-in-premier-league-season-so-far
Everton (a) = Greenwood (37.60)
Everton (h) = Fred (37.29)
Burnley (a) = James (36.90)
Liverpool (a) = James (36.50)
Crystal Palace (h) = Rashford (36.32)
Yeah, I saw this, but this is a very strange stat.
Do you really believe that Fred is faster than Rashford?) I can 100% say that Mason is not faster than Martial, but of course he is not slow either.
I think fame got to Mbappe's head a little (which is normal in his case). Tuchel even benched him for not working hard enough in one game and I remember him arguing with him.
And yes, Mason is definitely able "to take all challenges". He seems like a very humble guy. I don't remember Mbappe ever tracking back as hard and as consistent as Mason does now.
Well it's not whether we should believe or not. It's the official data. It's impossible to tell a difference of a few hundred meters per hour using our eyes over a few seconds so we gotta trust these data I think. Martial max speed that has ever recorded was 36.15 kmh so Mason is faster but not by a big margin. Both are really fast anyway.
It’s top speed which is much less important than acceleration over short distances. Rooney used to come top in top speed even when he was physically shot. Players don’t get to hit top speed all that often because the runs in football are usually over shorter distances.
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I agree Mason is the most exciting player to come out of our youth teams since giggs but I also remember thinking giggs was going to dominate and as good as he was he never even really became the best player in our team let alone in the league or the world. Everyone was calling him a genius and yes on his day he was devastating but he didn’t often hit those heights and was arguably more consistent in his later years in a different position. I’m not putting Giggs or Mason down but hype is infectious at a club like ours. Everyone is probably going a little overboard here after some very promising performances. If he can do what he’s been doing in youth football in the seniors (and it’s really starting to look like he can) then we’ve basically got ourselves another starting calibre player for free in a position we would traditionally have to spend big on and anything beyond that is a bonus right now. I think he’s definitely going to become a mainstay here over the next few years but he’ll need to stay injury free and to be showing it regularly against better teams than the 2 we’ve just played before we go branding him as a future worldie. We’ve seen him on the periphery of more difficult matches before the lockdown came in. It’ll take a while for it all to fully come together for him but he really couldn’t have done much more in the last few games either. I’m cautiously optimistic he’ll be a top player. He certainly looks the most exciting young player in the league this season.
Agreed, for example Messi top speed ever recorded was just a meh 32.5 kmh. It's his phenomenal acceleration and the ability of changing direction multiple times at max speed with the ball glued to his feet that makes him so special. The first few yards matter the most.
In term of acceleration I think Martial is still a bit ahead of Mason, a tiny bit. Don't ask me for evidence though, I just feel so.
Only on the caf could you find a debate comparing a player to Messi one moment and then Martial the next.
I love it.
I love it.
Tbh I don't find it anything unusual or unreasonable. One is about his potential limit, a bit too much hype though I agree. But it's an United forum talking about our best kid since Pogba. The other is more about his current ability. And it seems most here don't think he'd be any sort of Messi. We're just pretty sure that he'd become a better player than Martial or Rashford.
I saw an interesting analysis of the disallowed Rashford goal in regards to Greenwood. First he tracks back and helps win the ball, then dribbles the ball just past midfield, passes the ball to Pogba who then has a 1-2 with Martial. As soon as Pogba releases the ball to Martial you can see that Greenwood is just reading the game, he knows Pogba will get the ball back so he proceeds to make a run inwards and taking the defender with him and leaving the right flank for Wan-Bissaka. As soon as Pogba gets the ball back from Martial, Greenwood actually looks at Pogba and points out Wan-Bissaka. Pogba immediatley passes the ball to Wan-Bissaka who crosses the ball to Rashford who then scores the disallowed goal. The whole sequence was no fluke, he's a hard worker and just understands the game and knows how to help the team out without scoring as well.
Martials dribbling speed is higher than Mason. That's why when martial was 19 he was tearing apart Premier league fall backs. His close control is higher than masons.
This is a very different point about Greenwood - while totally agreeing about his skill, two footedness, accuracy and the like:
I really enjoy the way he can absolutely blooter it while remaining accurate.
I think it comes from being utterly terrible at football. But you can still enjoy really lashing a shot in even with two left feet. So I do like a Yeboah-esque piledriver.
I've always enjoyed the sheer power Rashford gets in to his shots, and Greenwood has shown that too with some of his goals this season.
I really enjoy the way he can absolutely blooter it while remaining accurate.
I think it comes from being utterly terrible at football. But you can still enjoy really lashing a shot in even with two left feet. So I do like a Yeboah-esque piledriver.
I've always enjoyed the sheer power Rashford gets in to his shots, and Greenwood has shown that too with some of his goals this season.
Yup the BBC still pay him for his professional insight.
Do you have a link to that?
"Not as naturally talented as Martial". He will have Martials spot in the starting lineup by the end of next season if we sign Sancho. He is much more of a natural no.9 than Martial.
Greenwood needs time to grow and develop without all these wild comparisons based on a few games. He needs to add a lot more variety IMO too or defenders will suss him out and make it a lot harder soon enough. But he has the time, ability and seemingly attitude.
Easy there son, he's not there yet.
You don't need much variety when you have two lethal foots and the sublime dribbling he has to go with it. The kid is creating his own hype at the moment and it's not just based on a few games, he's been doing this all season when he's gotten the chance.
He is a brilliant talent but anybody comparing him in any way to people like Messi are nuts.
If he ends up anything like Van Persie, Harry Kane or Van Nistelrooy etc we should all be absolutely delighted. There are an awful lot of very good players between Messi and Macheda that would be considered a huge success, especially for an academy player.
If he ends up anything like Van Persie, Harry Kane or Van Nistelrooy etc we should all be absolutely delighted. There are an awful lot of very good players between Messi and Macheda that would be considered a huge success, especially for an academy player.
Seriously people, do you even bother reading the posts on here, or do you just register the name «Messi» and assume it’s posters claiming he’s as good as he was, or going to be as good as he is? Nobody compared Greenwood’s talent to Messi’s, they compared a few attributes in isolation, which is still OK, because they do play the same sport.
Like @Rozay said after being misunderstood (intentionally?) Messi is Messi. Now please relax and focus on Mason, who will be regarded as a much better player than Messi by the time he retires, obviously.
Bite!
Like @Rozay said after being misunderstood (intentionally?) Messi is Messi. Now please relax and focus on Mason, who will be regarded as a much better player than Messi by the time he retires, obviously.
Bite!
I'm almost willing to bet my left kidney for that claim
And I don't throw that word around. The only other world class United players for me are Pogba and De Gea (barring these last 2 season)
After watching Greenwood's goals compilation again and again, it is obvious his best attributes are the timing, power and placement of his shots.
His turns and shifts disorients the defenders and even the Goalkeepers. If they don't follow his moves, they are left behind and Greenwood scores.
But if they do manage to follow his moves, then Greenwood makes powerful shots in an instant (when the defenders legs are open/spread) and
that too perfectly placed and timed.
That is why so many of Greenwood's goals are between the legs of the defenders and out of reach for the Goalkeepers.
He's already found out - defenders know what his next move is but they cannot stop his shots even if they try.
That is why I rate him even more than any of our attackers. If not World class player, then World class Finisher it is.
So did Wayne.
A lot can happen in a career. Rooney had a near perfect injury free upbringing, he just didn't quite want it enough.
Messi has had a flawless career. So has CR7. They practically never got injured and were driven to outdo each other on a weekly basis for almost 10 years. R9, who was better than both of them in his teens, didn't have the flawless career and will instead be remembered partly for what might have been. Mason will need to have literally everything go right for him to exceed what Rooney achieved let alone get to Ballon D'or level and beyond.
Messi was a freak. He was so quick-footed, had such good close control and such a low centre of gravity that his ability to beat a player barely ever relied on trickery or pure speed like many young attackers - defenders often correctly anticipated what he was going to do and were capable of getting close enough to make a challenge but still couldn't get near the ball.
Greenwood clearly doesn't have what Messi did (which is no slight because no-one does), but he's putting up similar numbers to an 18 year old Messi because he's so well-rounded that defenders can't anticipate his next move, and he has the footballing intelligence and speed of thought to capitalise on that. It's difficult to compare him to other talents because he's an unusual player. Most young players who make the sort of impact he has are capitalising on a mix of talent and an exceptional physical attribute, whereas it seems like Greenwood is mostly capitalising on talent and good decision-making/self-awareness. If he keeps his feet on the ground and naturally puts on a decent amount of muscle as he matures (rather than bulking and losing agility) he'll be a scary, Brazilian Ronaldo-esque player.
Greenwood clearly doesn't have what Messi did (which is no slight because no-one does), but he's putting up similar numbers to an 18 year old Messi because he's so well-rounded that defenders can't anticipate his next move, and he has the footballing intelligence and speed of thought to capitalise on that. It's difficult to compare him to other talents because he's an unusual player. Most young players who make the sort of impact he has are capitalising on a mix of talent and an exceptional physical attribute, whereas it seems like Greenwood is mostly capitalising on talent and good decision-making/self-awareness. If he keeps his feet on the ground and naturally puts on a decent amount of muscle as he matures (rather than bulking and losing agility) he'll be a scary, Brazilian Ronaldo-esque player.
I actually disagree. I think by the end of next season it will be sancho on the left in place of Rashford. Martial will probably be our Main striker for the next 4 years. he is irreplaceable till we get someone thats clear of him. Greenwood looks like better on the right with his left foot.
Im wiling to change my opinion when I see greenwood start games as CF. Till then he is better on the right.
Martial for some reason is just oddly under rated on these boards. I for the life of me can't tell how anyone watching him can underrate him to the extent he is on the Caf. Could be something to do with people swallowing the usual lazy nonsense said about him in the media or something.
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