Mason Greenwood - Football Discussion Only

[Bastian]

He's the most talented player at the club. He won't lose that in the space of a year and a half at his age. The main question regarding his ability as a footballer will be his mindset and how he'll navigate the response he'll get. He was quite easily a +100m player.

 

[RedStarUnited]

What are you expecting him to do in a game without a striker?

Not make bad decisions consistently? He shoots all the time when his shooting isn't even as good as he thinks it is. If he had Greenwoods level of shooting, I could forgive him for his greediness and lack of creativity but he doesn't.

 

[pascell]

I disagree with the bolded bit. Right now there's plenty of uncertainty over his potential and whether he'll be able to reach his pre-suspension level. That obviously affects his market value. If he has a successful loan that uncertainty goes away and his value goes up.

The issue isn't to do with what he does on field, it's what happens/happened off field which guides his price tag. I can't see his value going up anymore than its at now because of that uncertainty.

 

[redcucumber]

I wish people would just admit they only care about his footballing ability and want to win things.

We aren’t able to discuss this duty of care in detail but I fail to see how an employer should be tasked with this in these circumstances.

Because that's fecking bollox. I don't give a shit about 'only' winning things. I've been going to OT for years and will continue to do so regardless of how well we do.

It's obviously not a traditional employer-employee situation - Greenwood has been at United since he was 6. It's nice and easy to want to disassociate in moments like this, as if United/the biggest and best clubs are above it and the onus ought to be left to smaller clubs or clubs overseas, but I'm not sure who that benefits (apart from protecting United's bottom line in the context of sponsorship deals). It's obviously extremely difficult to navigate and Greenwood is categorically in no way the victim, but therapy and rehabilitation directed by the club and relevant expertise would be acknowledging that something went drastically wrong and is in need of addressing and correcting (possibly the club need to look inward also?). I just don't see how punting him to Turkey helps him change and grow (given the assumption is they'll take him because they don't care about what happened),

 

[BenitoSTARR]

That has nothing to do with his limited skillset though

I don’t think he has a limited skill set. I think he serves the exact purpose Ten Hag wants. He also defends from the front and doesn’t go selfish every time. Greenwood even when he was playing was not a solution for RW long term in a side that has Rashford on the other flank.

Genuinely Greenwood I think would be devastating to our footballing project. He’s a selfish, non pressing pot shot taker who hasn’t played properly for well over a year.

 

[Raoul]

Hard to predict this one.

You would think we are going to loan him out abroad and get a new striker in, that would be the most sensible outcome.

However, we're talking about the Glazers who want to sell the club and want to minimize their spendings and maximize their earnings.

So going by that logic they don't want to splash out 60+ million for a new striker when they have Greenwood on their payroll who, let's be honest, has more talent and footballing ability than 90% of the strikers we are linked with recently.

According to reports, Ten Hag is against selling Greenwood, so if he gets the approval by the board I'm sure Ten Hag will play him.

New striker = Greenwood out loan.
No new striker = Greenwood stays and Ten Hag will play him.

Yeah if we were selling him he would already be gone by now given that we would need the funds to buy new players, especially given the insane amounts the Saudis are throwing at players these days.

 

[Strelok]

Hard to predict this one.

You would think we are going to loan him out abroad and get a new striker in, that would be the most sensible outcome.

However, we're talking about the Glazers who want to sell the club and want to minimize their spendings and maximize their earnings.

So going by that logic they don't want to splash out 60+ million for a new striker when they have Greenwood on their payroll who, let's be honest, has more talent and footballing ability than 90% of the strikers we are linked with recently.

According to reports, Ten Hag is against selling Greenwood, so if he gets the approval by the board I'm sure Ten Hag will play him.

New striker = Greenwood out loan.
No new striker = Greenwood stays and Ten Hag will play him.

Yeah agree this is pretty much what I've been thinking.

We all forgot one very important thing. The Glazers.

Let's say if we loan him and sell him later for 50m. Great. But the Glazers probably won't be around here by then so that 50m has nothing to do with them. But the 60m Atalanta is asking for Hojlund now is their money. And like hell they would give a feck about our reputation, sponsorship etc. when they're about to sell the club.

Then we reportedly have around 100m to shop this summer. Mount and Onana in total cost around 100m already.

 

[macheda14]

Man hasn’t played football in a year and a half. He’s probably going to be as shit at football as he is as a person. Screw the cnut.

 

[loftyscott]

If he was a tennis player or some other solo sport you could discuss this solely on his sporting merit
But football is a team game
The All Blacks are held up by some of the best sports teams in the world (as well as the biggest companies) as an example of a culture to learn from and aspire to
How culture and values can define you and leave a legacy for decades to build on

One of the All Black rules is No d**kheads.
No matter how great the talent - No d**kheads allowed

MG fails that test
And if you allow him back you are then saying you as a club have a culture that accepts d**kheads as a cost of doing business
And thats really corrosive


And you have to mention this as part of the football element mods, as football is a team game (and a business) and thus culture and values cannot be separated from just football chat

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Eriksen game back to playing football after 18 months didnt he? Don't see why Greenwood can't. If we don't sign a striker, he has to stay.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I don’t think he has a limited skill set. I think he serves the exact purpose Ten Hag wants. He also defends from the front and doesn’t go selfish every time. Greenwood even when he was playing was not a solution for RW long term in a side that has Rashford on the other flank.

Genuinely Greenwood I think would be devastating to our footballing project. He’s a selfish, non pressing pot shot taker who hasn’t played properly for well over a year.

I think he's extremely predictable and one footed. He also doesn't seem to do assists, although a better striker may improve that slightly, he isn't that creative and his final ball last season was atrocious. You do have a point about the position though, he does retain the ball the way ETH likes, and GW might play up front instead.

Man hasn’t played football in a year and a half. He’s probably going to be as shit at football as he is as a person. Screw the cnut.

VVD was out for 9 months and while he obviously isn't the same after a serious knee injury, did not require a loan to get back up to speed.

 

[Unam333]

Yeah agree this is pretty much what I've been thinking.

We all forgot one very important thing. The Glazers.

Let's say if we loan him and sell him later for 50m. Great. But the Glazers probably won't be around here by then so that 50m has nothing to do with them. But the 60m Atalanta is asking for Hojlund now is their money. And like hell they would give a feck about our reputation, sponsorship etc. when they're about to sell the club.

Then we reportedly have around 100m to shop this summer. Mount and Onana in total cost around 100m already.

Atalanta will be rubbing in their hands if they get Greenwood for 50m while selling Hojlund for 60m. They are trading in an inferior player for a superior player.

I have the impression that mediterranean countries are more "forgiving" regarding these "incidents" as they're considered masculine cultures. At least, that's how I see it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ABTEK]

He was truly missed past 18 months. He was like Van Persie reincarnated but the non football stuff he went through and still going to face from fans and media has and will definitely impact his talent.

 

[Mainoldo]

What’s the latest? He staying? Can’t be bothered to read through all the pages.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Not make bad decisions consistently? He shoots all the time when his shooting isn't even as good as he thinks it is. If he had Greenwoods level of shooting, I could forgive him for his greediness and lack of creativity but he doesn't.

He doesn’t make consistently bad decisions though. He’s scored some very important goals from good decisions.

He has talents above Greenwood’s though in terms of ball progression, press resistance and defensive ability. Much better suited to what we need than Greenwood who will not be the same player and more importantly would ruin the squad dynamic.

He will never be a success here.

Because that's fecking bollox. I don't give a shit about 'only' winning things. I've been going to OT for years and will continue to do so regardless of how well we do.

It's obviously not a traditional employer-employee situation - Greenwood has been at United since he was 6. It's nice and easy to want to disassociate in moments like this, as if United/the biggest and best clubs are above it and the onus ought to be left to smaller clubs or clubs overseas, but I'm not sure who that benefits (apart from protecting United's bottom line in the context of sponsorship deals). It's obviously extremely difficult to navigate and Greenwood is categorically in no way the victim, but therapy and rehabilitation directed by the club and relevant expertise would be acknowledging that something went drastically wrong and is in need of addressing and correcting (possibly the club need to look inward also?). I just don't see how punting him to Turkey helps him change and grow (given the assumption is they'll take him because they don't care about what happened), particularly given he is still with the woman in question and having a baby with her.

How on earth do the club need to look inward in this matter?

We aren’t allowed to talk about this topic in the detail I’d need to use to reply properly so I’ll just say you lose privileges when you do certain things.

Greenwood should be rehabilitated but that is his responsibility to get that help. The club forcing things on him won’t change him it always comes down to individual desire and self reflection. That does not mean he has any right to play football for United.

I can’t comment on the situation further particularly your comment about “the woman in question” without consequence.

 

[Oranges038]

If we want to stick to strictly football (which I strongly feel we can't in this case) then he has wasted nearly two years of playing football and continuing to develop, which is entirely his fault. He was a good talent but no guarantee he's as good now.

There's no guarantees, your right. But he's still young, he wasn't injured, every chance that he can still recover his trajectory and reach his potential.

I think he should be given a chance at redemption, whether that's at Utd or somewhere else, that's for the club to decide.

 

[Strelok]

Atalanta will be rubbing in their hands if they get Greenwood for 50m while selling Hojlund for 60m. They are trading in an inferior player for a superior player. I have the impression that mediterranean countries are more "forgiving" regarding these things as they're considered masculine cultures. At least, that's how I see it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I used Atalanta just as an example of the money the Glazers would have to spend on a new #9. And I have no idea regarding the cultural stuffs. Went there once but only for a week or so.

There's no guarantees, your right. But he's still young, he wasn't injured, every chance that he can still recover his trajectory and reach his potential.

Regarding this imo we should trust ETH. If he thinks Greenwood could he'll keep him. If not he won't. So far he reportedly wants to keep him so imo it seems ETH does think Greenwood could make a comeback.

Btw ETH is with him now I think? Seen some reports say he's with the squad now right?

 

[FrankDrebin]

Atalanta are very much a family run club that cares about their history and how they're perceived amongst the locals and the Italian public. They're a clean club.

How and why people think they would just be openly embrace someone like MG boggles the mind.

There's a Golazzo podcast out there that summarizes the clubs effect on its community released a couple of years back.

 

[bosnian_red]

If United think there is any chance he'll fetch 100m, we ain't selling him on the cheap only for the purchasing club to make a fortune off selling him. Sell on clause or not, those aren't typically all that great. I'd hope we'd loan him out, see whether he gets back to his best, then sell him for 100m if we're not going to keep him.

He won't ever go for that amount anymore, because the market for him is severely impacted. No other English club will take him on so you take out the richest teams. Other clubs will use the bad press as a way to keep price down. But still someone who we could get probably 30mil for. My point was that it's a 100m talent for dirt cheap, if that team is ok with the social ramifications. If they are, it's an absolute no brainer as you get a player who can be an elite footballer but in the rare position where the elite clubs won't go for him because they would care more. A player good enough to one day lead the line for a top 5 team, but who will be stuck at a 10-20th ranked team in Europe instead. So if those teams made the decision that they don't care, then footballing wise it'd be the best signing they could make.

 

[RedStarUnited]

He won't ever go for that amount anymore, because the market for him is severely impacted. No other English club will take him on so you take out the richest teams. Other clubs will use the bad press as a way to keep price down. But still someone who we could get probably 30mil for. My point was that it's a 100m talent for dirt cheap, if that team is ok with the social ramifications. If they are, it's an absolute no brainer as you get a player who can be an elite footballer but in the rare position where the elite clubs won't go for him because they would care more. A player good enough to one day lead the line for a top 5 team, but who will be stuck at a 10-20th ranked team in Europe instead. So if those teams made the decision that they don't care, then footballing wise it'd be the best signing they could make.

Is there an elite footballer who didn't play for a top team because the top teams didn't want him?

I know many don't want to believe this but if he goes to a team and plays at an elite level and bangs in 30 goals, most of the top teams will think they can PR their way out of his mess.

 

[Oranges038]

I used Atalanta just as an example of the money the Glazers would have to spend on a new #9. And I have no idea regarding the cultural stuffs. Went there once but only for a week or so.


Regarding this imo we should trust ETH. If he thinks Greenwood could he'll keep him. If not he won't. So far he reportedly wants to keep him so imo it seems ETH does think Greenwood could make a comeback.

Btw ETH is with him now I think? Seen some reports say he's with the squad now right?

The last player he trusted after some legal troubles hasn't gone on to do so well.

I have no idea where he is, or what's going on to be honest. If ETH and the club think they can integrate him back into the fold, it'll certainly be very interesting.

 

[evil_geko]

Eriksen game back to playing football after 18 months didnt he? Don't see why Greenwood can't. If we don't sign a striker, he has to stay.

Eriksen was already older experienced footballer, much easier to come back, MG is very young still developing footballer who missed almost two crucial development years.

 

[Strelok]

The last player he trusted after some legal troubles hasn't gone on to do so well.

I have no idea where he is, or what's going on to be honest. If ETH and the club think they can integrate him back into the fold, it'll certainly be very interesting.

Yeah agree I can only imagine the outrages and noise if so. We'll see I think.

 

[tenpoless]

United stance on him is confusing. They just need to decide whether to loan or let go. Not ready for first team football next season in my opinion.

 

[Raoul]

Eriksen was already older experienced footballer, much easier to come back, MG is very young still developing footballer who missed almost two crucial development years.

He was also out following a life threatening medical condition. Far more risky and difficult to successfully return from that than a young footballer who was never injured.

 

[FlapR]

Get rid. He's a tarnish on the club and will be a constant distraction from anything positive.

 

[GMoore23]

Not make bad decisions consistently? He shoots all the time when his shooting isn't even as good as he thinks it is. If he had Greenwoods level of shooting, I could forgive him for his greediness and lack of creativity but he doesn't.

Antony has a far better long shot than Greenwood.

 

[JB7]

VVD was out for 9 months and while he obviously isn't the same after a serious knee injury, did not require a loan to get back up to speed.

Comparing a player missing time being injured to one missing time due to being a reprehensible vile cnut is a new one to be fair.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Comparing a player missing time being injured to one missing time due to being a reprehensible vile cnut is a new one to be fair.

In a conversation relating to football ability, the characterization you make of him has really no bearing.

 

[Remember the geese]

Antony has a far better long shot than Greenwood.

Not really.

 

[GMoore23]

Wasn't impressed with his work rate and he'd become quite greedy before the ban.
Unless he was on the scoresheet, he offered very little and really needed to show more determination.
I thought he had a poor attitude so not bothered if he's moved on..

 

[The Hilton]

A bit rich of you to accuse others of borderline nonsense and then come out with something like this.

You disagree? He's by far and away the biggest talent to come out of our academy for ages. Look at how excited folks are with Garnacho, and how talented he is, yet Greenwood was delivering way more at the same age.

 

[peridigm]

Wasn't impressed with his work rate and he'd become quite greedy before the ban.
Unless he was on the scoresheet, he offered very little and really needed to show more determination.
I thought he had a poor attitude so not bothered if he's moved on..

Consider who is manager was. Most of the squad had a poor attitude.

 

[gormless]

Eriksen game back to playing football after 18 months didnt he? Don't see why Greenwood can't. If we don't sign a striker, he has to stay.

6 months. Heart attack was summer of 21. He was playing for Brentford by January 22. He would have had longer out if he had done his knee. Incredible really

 

[sepulturite]

I don't want him to play for United for reasons I've stated in other posts before, but on a purely football perspective, I can't see how he'd really play for us this season anyway in any meaningful way considering how long he's been out of the game.

The other thing, which I think is more important, is that I think it'd be too much of a distraction to our season preparations. There'd just be too much focus on him being back, it'd distract the squad, and I also think there would definitely be players among the squad that wouldn't want him back, just like how it's so divisive among us fans. But that's going away from the football side of things slightly.

So I think he'll definitely go on loan if we can get him one. It's the best middle ground decision for the moment.

 

[redsunited]

Can't wait to see Greenwood play and get back to his best. The most naturally gifted English player after Rooney. If he could get back to his best, Rashford/Garnacho in Left and Greenwood/Antony in Right would make United wide players attacks so exciting after 10+ years. Giggs, Nani, Valencia & Young were the last exciting wide player arsenal the club had.

 

[MUFC OK]

At his top level we are crying out for a player with the qualities he has this, especially where every striker who is capable of scoring 15 goals in europes top leagues will cost 50m. He was never a winger and more a no.9.

No guarantees MG is anywhere near ready to return to PL football, though. I can actually see the Atalanta loan happening if we can get Hojlund. Would be very United to lock the can down the road with a loan.

 

[championo]

We need him. Let him play.

 

[Alemar]

From a footballing perspective, we should take him on tour to USA and have a look. It could be evident he is not ready - but it might also be an opposite, maybe he walks into this starting XI

 

[TsuWave]

He also can't play RW well enough. Antony can, he had a decent good debut season and we were so much better with him in the team. If Greenwood comes back he will be CF option, he isn't good enough wide

tracking back aside, I've seen more from Greenwood as attacking threat on the right than I have from Antony