Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Zlaatan]

If the only evidence was that audio recording many things would have possible but there were several pictures of bruises and an additional video recording with her bleeding from her mouth. I guess those were from Halloween?

It's the entire case that completely shuts down the possibility of it being role play, literally every single thing that happened after the audio and pictures went public should make it so incredibly obvious that role play is not and never was a plausible explanation.

 

[JB7]

It’s not really true though is it. Fan opinion in nearly all polls on it were basically split pretty much right down the middle.

Which polls were split down the middle? RedCafe’s poll was 60% not play again, 20% play again, 20% unsure, The Athletic’s poll was similar with 60% not play again, 25% play again, 15% unsure. Also from my own point of view, it’s pertinent to note that I’ve yet to actually meet anyone in real life that has said anything other than he should never play for us again.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I have just had a catch up on this thread. I think I need to give redcafe a miss for a little while.

I'm actually shocked by some of what I've read in the last 10 pages or so. Some of the people on here are genuinely vile and I pray they don't have daughters.

 

[frostbite]

You are really persistent with this “creepy” nonsense. Nobody here invented the idea of role play; it’s been suggested for 18 months.

United and Greenwood released a statement saying that the audios and videos were not what they looked like. Are we just going to call them liars and ignore it? No. Is role play completely impossible? No. Are we speculating about possibilities on a discussion forum? Yes.

Just because you don’t personally like the idea of it being role play doesn’t mean you have to twist and manipulate the idea. You have offered 0 reasons as to why it is impossible to be role play, and your posts seem to be deliberately antagonistic by repeating “ewww creep”.

Role-play "suggested" by whom?

Greenwood never said it was role-play. Nor the lawyers. Nor the police. Nor Arnold. Nobody said it was role play.


If it was "suggested" by a random person on the internet, I can help you find more suggestions: deepfake, anti-United secret agents, Russian spies, aliens, and so on. Depends how deep you want to go.

If you happen to not know what a deepfake is, here is the Wikipedia link, it is more plausible than "role play":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepfake

 

[Piabetic]

Interesting article in The Mail on Friday. Might have been slightly slanted towards making us feel sorry for him, but it did paint a picture of Greenwood as being a very difficult and challenging guy. Arrogant, introverted, immature etc. It does pretty much fit with how I felt about him before all this happened with the issue with England and the stories about his conduct through lockdown and such.

He may indeed struggle to cope anywhere else where he wont get a team of people working with his parents and the FA trying to manage his progression. He will probably be lucky to even match the career of Ravel Morrison at this point. It's possible he will go somewhere and do well, but he doesn't seem to be someone that would make friends easily even if he was amongst other Brits of the same age so I doubt his chances of making it abroad.

 

[dumbo]

The Athletic with another excellent article. The Athletic have done a great service to journalism and the game of football with their recent coverage of this issue. And all in the face of insincere bad actors and horrible slimebag "fans" of football, the club, the player.

 

[dumbo]

On the issue of whether a player in his position should be allowed to "play again", I think that it's a tough question. As far as I see it, he hasn't taken any responsibility for his actions, either in admitting to them or explaining them, and until his does one or the other I would personally be resistant to him playing football or even working anywhere near me. I'm not going to hound him to the ends of the earth but I would tell him what I thought of him if we crossed paths and I would raise objections if he was in my place of work or playing for a local team.

However if he was to sufficiently face up to his responsibilities (do the rehabilitation work that many have suggested) then I would be more welcoming, even to the degree of accepting him back at Manchester United (it would take some huge effort on his part though). And sure him ever doing any of this is probably even less likely than those role play stories but I'm not necessarily a throw away the key person in these situations.

Before any goblin types ask: The current statements count for less than feck all, they are an insult.

 

[Spaghetti]

Role-play "suggested" by whom?

Greenwood never said it was role-play. Nor the lawyers. Nor the police. Nor Arnold. Nobody said it was role play.


If it was "suggested" by a random person on the internet, I can help you find more suggestions: deepfake, anti-United secret agents, Russian spies, aliens, and so on. Depends how deep you want to go.

If you happen to not know what a deepfake is, here is the Wikipedia link, it is more plausible than "role play":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepfake

Well no. But they didn’t say anything about what it was. They only said it wasn’t what he was accused of. Therefore we think about alternatives.

Personally, when I listen to that audio (assuming they are not lying and it is not “what he was accused of”):
Am I 100% sure it’s not aliens? Yes.
Am I 100% sure it’s not Russian spies? Yes.
Am I 100% sure it’s not role play? No.

There are lots of reasons why it could be role play. It doesn’t mean it definitely was. But until they say it wasn’t, I can’t rule it out.

I didn’t know what deepfake was, so thanks for the link. Can’t rule it out, but it seems less plausible that she would do that in my opinion.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Having just read the last 2 pages, I think slow mode's a great feature for this thread. It reduces having just 1 or 2 voices carpet bombing everyone's opinion with their own narrow perspective.

When 1 poster has almost tripled the 2nd highest posters total that is difficult to avoid.

The thing is if MG played for any other team than Utd this forum would have been 99.99% against him.

I’m not too sure. Not a single rival fan I’ve spoken to has been half as vociferous as some posters on here.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

@sepulturite

What view exactly has you so upset?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I might use this for one of your posts in the Greenwood thread. Ta mate.

Please do.

 

[JediSith]

Certainly I'm not defending Best but before becoming a chronic alcoholic he was apparently a decent, good hearted bloke.

TBF before being exposed Lucy Letby was apparently a lovely , kind and compassionate woman.

Let’s not be blinded by the fact that George Best issues didn’t start when he was in his 40s and a chronic alcoholic. Even in his teens he was known as being wild, by his 20s alcohol had started interfering with his career.

The difference is Best was very charismatic and that influences all around him and all who hear him speak. Something Greenwood doesn’t have in his favour.

 

[Marwood]

TBF before being exposed Lucy Letby was apparently a lovely , kind and compassionate woman.

Let’s not be blinded by the fact that George Best issues didn’t start when he was in his 40s and a chronic alcoholic. Even in his teens he was known as being wild, by his 20s alcohol had started interfering with his career.

The difference is Best was very charismatic and that influences all around him and all who hear him speak. Something Greenwood doesn’t have in his favour.

From what you've written there I don't think you know all that much about George Best. He wasn't wild in his teens at all. Was actually an extremely shy lad at that point. Also he was a chronic alcoholic way before his 40's, was already there by his mid to late 20's.

Your Letby analogy just adds to the craziness of this thread.

 

[Jazz]

Does anyone know anything about his parents? Never seem to hear about them. Hopefully, they can help him keep it together. I'm uneasy about the fact that it doesn't seem like it will be easy to find him somewhere else to continue playing. Not sure the kid can mentally handle an end to his career.

 

[sugar_kane]

Does anyone know anything about his parents? Never seem to hear about them. Hopefully, they can help him keep it together. I'm uneasy about the fact that it doesn't seem like it will be easy to find him somewhere else to continue playing. Not sure the kid can mentally handle an end to his career.

The dad has been seen with him a few times, court case and individual training (bald guy big grey beard)

Athletic did a piece on Greenwood a few months back which mentioned he was an engineer, and had to be told to calm down during academy games as he was a bit overly vocal. Also a bit impatient about his England career, wanting guaranteed play time. Other than that not much.

In the most recent Athletic article on MG (which is way better than any of the Whitwell, Crafton and Taylor pieces as it features a shred of nuance) and that recent Daily Mail article it paints a picture of Greenwood as needing a more professional entourage around him. He’s currently just represented by his dad.

 

[JagUTD]

Given the recent articles and Arnold saying the club will continue to offer support to Greenwood and his partner, I wonder if this will continue beyond his departure due to fears he may spiral out of control and lacks the ability to handle the situation.

 

[Jazz]

The dad has been seen with him a few times, court case and individual training (bald guy big grey beard)

Athletic did a piece on Greenwood a few months back which mentioned he was an engineer, and had to be told to calm down during academy games as he was a bit overly vocal. Also a bit impatient about his England career, wanting guaranteed play time. Other than that not much.

In the most recent Athletic article on MG (which is way better than any of the Whitwell, Crafton and Taylor pieces as it features a shred of nuance) and that recent Daily Mail article it paints a picture of Greenwood as needing a more professional entourage around him. He’s currently just represented by his dad.

Thanks for the info. Hope the family knows he will need a lot of therapy. I get the. feeling Mason will need a lot of help with his mental state if he cannot resume his career.

 

[Conor]

On the issue of whether a player in his position should be allowed to "play again", I think that it's a tough question. As far as I see it, he hasn't taken any responsibility for his actions, either in admitting to them or explaining them, and until his does one or the other I would personally be resistant to him playing football or even working anywhere near me. I'm not going to hound him to the ends of the earth but I would tell him what I thought of him if we crossed paths and I would raise objections if he was in my place of work or playing for a local team.

However if he was to sufficiently face up to his responsibilities (do the rehabilitation work that many have suggested) then I would be more welcoming, even to the degree of accepting him back at Manchester United (it would take some huge effort on his part though). And sure him ever doing any of this is probably even less likely than those role play stories but I'm not necessarily a throw away the key person in these situations.

Before any goblin types ask: The current statements count for less than feck all, they are an insult.

There seems to be this catch 22 where doing the above would go a long way to helping his case, but would also incriminate him? I really don't understand why there hasn't been any sort of proper statement addressing what he's alleged to have done, surely it would be the first thing you would do if you thought it would help your case(for returning to play)?

 

[Bruno8]

Given the recent articles and Arnold saying the club will continue to offer support to Greenwood and his partner, I wonder if this will continue beyond his departure due to fears he may spiral out of control and lacks the ability to handle the situation.

I think they have to help him beyond his United career until he stabilises. Her is still young and growing up and needs a good support system.

Talking of support systems......was just wondering if the organisations that deal with Domestic Violence have contacted the 'alleged victim' in this case or even Mason just to have a chat with him to see how they can assist them. It would actually be a good thing if they can do that

 

[GBBQ]

Well no. But they didn’t say anything about what it was. They only said it wasn’t what he was accused of. Therefore we think about alternatives.

Personally, when I listen to that audio (assuming they are not lying and it is not “what he was accused of”):
Am I 100% sure it’s not aliens? Yes.
Am I 100% sure it’s not Russian spies? Yes.
Am I 100% sure it’s not role play? No.

There are lots of reasons why it could be role play. It doesn’t mean it definitely was. But until they say it wasn’t, I can’t rule it out.

I didn’t know what deepfake was, so thanks for the link. Can’t rule it out, but it seems less plausible that she would do that in my opinion.

The thing is, we haven’t peeked in their bedroom window, witnessed something and jumped to a (wrong) conclusion. His partner came out and made the claims with photographic and audio evidence.

The police were involved and for the bones of a year there was an active case. If it was consensual role play why would it take a year to clear up? That case could only remain active if the victim maintained it was a crime for that duration.

 

[Acquire Me]

The club fecked up on a lot of things regarding MG.

Listening to the mob including fans of other clubs and The Athletic clouded their judgement. Be professional and know that whatever choice you make is the right one.

They did a crazy long investigation and with that knowledge they should’ve been the best judge in this matter.

The plan to bring him back was not a very good plan without more information and understanding for the fans. It was no information or explanation at all. Would that backfire? Obviously.

The right thing to do is taking responsibility. They had him at United since he was a small child. The statement on Monday only raised more questions and concerns.

We need the sale of the club so bad. The top people at the club need replacing.

 

[JediSith]

From what you've written there I don't think you know all that much about George Best. He wasn't wild in his teens at all. Was actually an extremely shy lad at that point. Also he was a chronic alcoholic way before his 40's, was already there by his mid to late 20's.

Your Letby analogy just adds to the craziness of this thread.

Rather odd. The Letby analogy is just an example of how people who are social and charismatic will get judged differently, and not a literal comparison to their dark sides.

Also no one comes for people in their glory days, sadly any analogies I make you will take out of context.

I stated by his 20s alcohol was interfering with his career. So not sure what you misunderstood, unless if you think he was behaving the same in his 20s as he was in his 40s ?

He was shy but was getting into trouble quite early on at United.

The craziness of this thread is people intentionally not understanding other peoples points. You don’t have to agree with it. But my point is that being likeable and charismatic helps people get away with a lot and will make them get judged more favourably. Hence why we have terms like “lovable rogue”. Because most often people will ignore what you’ve done so long as how you make them feel is good.

Also people, especially back then, would turn a blind eye to the rich and famous. Again, not making a direct comparison, but how many people spoke kindly about certain people who we now know are not great people and we know many at the time of their success knew they were not good people.

Again not making this comparison about Best. With Best and Greenwood i think we have complicated people. Neither are monsters, both made mistakes. But one is judged less severely because of his good looks, charisma and personality. While the other some would burn on a stake.

 

[Spaghetti]

The thing is, we haven’t peeked in their bedroom window, witnessed something and jumped to a (wrong) conclusion. His partner came out and made the claims with photographic and audio evidence.

The police were involved and for the bones of a year there was an active case. If it was consensual role play why would it take a year to clear up? That case could only remain active if the victim maintained it was a crime for that duration.

That’s not true.

 

[Bruno8]

There seems to be this catch 22 where doing the above would go a long way to helping his case, but would also incriminate him? I really don't understand why there hasn't been any sort of proper statement addressing what he's alleged to have done, surely it would be the first thing you would do if you thought it would help your case(for returning to play)?

I think you are right to say its a catch22 because whatever ''additional evidence that came to light'' or the ''context missing in the public domain'' cannot be released publicly without infringing the privacy rights of the ''alleged victim'' and her anonymity

 

[Baxquux]

That’s not true.

Yeah, literally not true. She asked for the case to be ended months before a decision was made - where the decision was made off the back of new evidence, as opposed to 'simply' the key witness withdrawing. People can still choose not to believe the new evidence - once they're familiar with what it actually entails, which none of us actually know - but that confusion is probably just another reason why people are so stuck in the 'I'm certain' - or asserting it as fact rather than interpretation- as opposed to 'I don't know'. Discussed why I think saying, and acting along the lines of 'I don't know' (and asserting that no-one, aside from people with the fullest knowledge of the facts of the case, is in a position to start talking about 'accountability' except when it comes to the facts which have already been verified ) is the proper ethical position until facts are made public, but I know there are swathes of this forum who are just going to call that 'sick' and 'rape enabling' again...

 

[JagUTD]

The idea of apologising or seeking help for something you are absolutely adamant you haven't done makes no sense.

And the idea people might be more forgiving is also false. Think of the people who have paid off accusers to avoid prosecution or civil lawsuits. People often view that as an admission of guilt.

 

[Baxquux]

The idea of apologising or seeking help for something you are absolutely adamant you haven't done makes no sense.

And the idea people might be more forgiving is also false. Think of the people who have paid off accusers to avoid prosecution or civil lawsuits. People often view that as an admission of guilt.

You understand there are levels of transgression, right? MG and his partner have already admitted, between the statement and her social media feed, that he did things wrong in the sense of personal ethics, including cheating on and verbally abusing his partner whilst they were together. In terms of his conduct at the club, there have already been lots of small news stories about past bullying or other infractions. These haven't been detailed officially in their specifics as a balance sheet because they weren't things he was being prosecuted for, as well as for reasons you can speculate on (would it breach confidentiality of other individuals; would it harm the reputation of his partner and expose her to some degree of social media ordure; there are., of course, other explanations) but MG clearly had to rebuild his relationship with both the club and his partner, regardless of whatever else may have occurred. Again to this 'whatever else', he might be guilty of one or more charges; the point is only that we now don't have a full enough picture because previously conclusive material has been called into question, and two separate bodies have consequently ruled that the evidence points in his favour in respect of specific Criminal charges -this is literally all that's being brought up. There's a reason why jury trials and the contemporary legal system for all its faults, has evolved and why evidence is supposed to be entered, and examined by both prosecution and defence in a trial before a conclusion is reached.

If people are asking for him to be let go on the basis of what has been conceded by all parties or leaked (though not officially corroborated by the club) about his previous training ground conduct, then that's another discussion. However, the claim that his position was untenable -and why he shouldn't be allowed to play for any club., de facto, because of the now quasi-autonomously social media pressure campaign- rests specifically upon an allegation or allegations which both the CPS and the club, working independently, have found doesn't/ don't sufficiently bear the weight of scrutiny, being actually unequivocally true. True, because the internet, without currently having that extra information, has decided the claims (of attempted rape and assault) are true. If subsequent allegations around sexual assault emerge, or new facts about this case are made clear to the police/CPS, and are tested either in court or if MG makes a statement admitting to the initial allegations, then I don't think anyone here defending the position of 'innocent of those specific crimes until proven otherwise' would advocate for his staying at the club or indeed for joining another club in the future without some punishment and rehabilitation period first at the very least.

 

[JagUTD]

That’s not true.

Despite some people's best efforts, the time line of events is clear and in itself provides a picture that's doesn't quite tally with one of the theories in play.

There are things I would like to say, based on my own life experiences, having watched my mum go through things and currently helping a friend through which would be relevant here but I am wary of the tendancy for people to try and score points and look good for the benefit of a few others, rather than consider the complexities of this entire situation. There are some fantastic posts, offering a wide range of views from many posters, but also some shocking views, on all sides of the debate.

 

[Bastian]

What do people make of that Ian Ladyman piece? Seems to paint a picture of an individual who has quite some developmental challenges and may have needed a lot more support from the club throughout his progression through the ranks.

Has he ever given an interview that's not just two minutes post match reaction?

 

[JagUTD]

You understand there are levels of transgression, right? MG and his partner have already admitted, between the statement and her social media feed, that he did things wrong in the sense of personal ethics, including cheating on and verbally abusing his partner whilst they were together. In terms of his conduct at the club, there have already been lots of small news stories about past bullying or other infractions. These haven't been detailed officially in their specifics as a balance sheet because they weren't things he was being prosecuted for, as well as for reasons you can speculate on (would it breach confidentiality of other individuals; would it harm the reputation of his partner and expose her to some degree of social media ordure; there are., of course, other explanations) but MG clearly had to rebuild his relationship with both the club and his partner, regardless of whatever else may have occurred. Again to this 'whatever else', he might be guilty of one or more charges; the point is only that we now don't have a full enough picture because previously conclusive material has been called into question, and two separate bodies have consequently ruled that the evidence points in his favour in respect of specific Criminal charges -this is literally all that's being brought up. There's a reason why jury trials and the contemporary legal system for all its faults, has evolved and why evidence is supposed to be entered, and examined by both prosecution and defence in a trial before a conclusion is reached.

If people are asking for him to be let go on the basis of what has been conceded by all parties or leaked (though not officially corroborated by the club) about his previous training ground conduct, then that's another discussion. However, the claim that his position was untenable -and why he shouldn't be allowed to play for any club., de facto, because of the now quasi-autonomously social media pressure campaign- rests specifically upon an allegation or allegations which both the CPS and the club, working independently, have found doesn't/ don't sufficiently bear the weight of scrutiny, being actually unequivocally true. True, because the internet, without currently having that extra information, has decided the claims (of attempted rape and assault) are true. If subsequent allegations around sexual assault emerge, or new facts about this case are made clear to the police/CPS, and are tested either in court or if MG makes a statement admitting to the initial allegations, then I don't think anyone here defending the position of 'innocent of those specific crimes until proven otherwise' would advocate for his staying at the club or indeed for joining another club in the future without some punishment and rehabilitation period first at the very least.

I'm well aware. Greenwood himself has acknowledged he's made mistakes but also that those mistakes, and what he was accused of are not the same things.

I'm referring only to what he was accused of though and not what effectively comes does to very personal, intimate details of two people's relationship. That's for the two of them to work through, like many, many people do every single day. But the idea he should be apologising or seeking help for the things he was accused of but denies and has never been convicted of makes no sense at all.

Everything else should be of no concern to us or anyone who isn't Greenwood and his partner. There are signs that the two of them are not working on their personal issues.

 

[JediSith]

You understand there are levels of transgression, right? MG and his partner have already admitted, between the statement and her social media feed, that he did things wrong in the sense of personal ethics, including cheating on and verbally abusing his partner whilst they were together. In terms of his conduct at the club, there have already been lots of small news stories about past bullying or other infractions. These haven't been detailed officially in their specifics as a balance sheet because they weren't things he was being prosecuted for, as well as for reasons you can speculate on (would it breach confidentiality of other individuals; would it harm the reputation of his partner and expose her to some degree of social media ordure; there are., of course, other explanations) but MG clearly had to rebuild his relationship with both the club and his partner, regardless of whatever else may have occurred. Again to this 'whatever else', he might be guilty of one or more charges; the point is only that we now don't have a full enough picture because previously conclusive material has been called into question, and two separate bodies have consequently ruled that the evidence points in his favour in respect of specific Criminal charges -this is literally all that's being brought up. There's a reason why jury trials and the contemporary legal system for all its faults, has evolved and why evidence is supposed to be entered, and examined by both prosecution and defence in a trial before a conclusion is reached.

If people are asking for him to be let go on the basis of what has been conceded by all parties or leaked (though not officially corroborated by the club) about his previous training ground conduct, then that's another discussion. However, the claim that his position was untenable -and why he shouldn't be allowed to play for any club., de facto, because of the now quasi-autonomously social media pressure campaign- rests specifically upon an allegation or allegations which both the CPS and the club, working independently, have found doesn't/ don't sufficiently bear the weight of scrutiny, being actually unequivocally true. True, because the internet, without currently having that extra information, has decided the claims (of attempted rape and assault) are true. If subsequent allegations around sexual assault emerge, or new facts about this case are made clear to the police/CPS, and are tested either in court or if MG makes a statement admitting to the initial allegations, then I don't think anyone here defending the position of 'innocent of those specific crimes until proven otherwise' would advocate for his staying at the club or indeed for joining another club in the future without some punishment and rehabilitation period first at the very least.

Not the same offence as Greenwood’s allegation. But should Maguire remaining as captain after being found guilty of aggravated assault, resisting arrest and attempted bribery be a discussion. He’s launched an appeal but is still convicted of those offences.

I understand the public outrage not being the same. But as a professional business should the club not have a clear and consistent policy with regards to 1) criminal investigations and 2) trials and subsequent convictions / acquittals

 

[JagUTD]

What do people make of that Ian Ladyman piece? Seems to paint a picture of an individual who has quite some developmental challenges and may have needed a lot more support from the club throughout his progression through the ranks.

Has he ever given an interview that's not just two minutes post match reaction?

One of the great things but equally one of the biggest issues in football is how it can provide an environment for people to thrive in regardless of their background.

There's probably only boxing which can provide a similar platform for anyone to grow regardless of their background, personality or education level.

We've all seen countles examples of players who's stories bring a tear to ones eye but have become superstars. We've had our fair share at United. We've also seen what can happen if that structure is taken away. How quickly someone who depends on it falls back into the life football allowed them to escape or in the worst cases, how losing that support leads to devastating outcomes.

Originally I wasn't sure how to interpret Arnold stating this wasn't the end of the matter, and the club will continue to support Greenwood and his partner but I think after the recent articles, it's a commitment to them regardless of what happens or where he goes. I also think it makes any idea of his contract being payed out or him going to somewhere like Saudi Arabia very unlikely. Wherever he ends up will be somewhere that United can still support him and where he can turn to United if needed.

It also makes United decision make sense despite the contradictory nature of it.

 

[Bastian]

One of the great things but equally one of the biggest issues in football is how it can provide an environment for people to thrive in regardless of their background.

There's probably only boxing which can provide a similar platform for anyone to grow regardless of their background, personality or education level.

We've all seen countles examples of players who's stories bring a tear to ones eye but have become superstars. We've had our fair share at United. We've also seen what can happen if that structure is taken away. How quickly someone who depends on it falls back into the life football allowed them to escape or in the worst cases, how losing that support leads to devastating outcomes.

Originally I wasn't sure how to interpret Arnold stating this wasn't the end of the matter, and the club will continue to support Greenwood and his partner but I think after the recent articles, it's a commitment to them regardless of what happens or where he goes. I also think it makes any idea of his contract being payed out or him going to somewhere like Saudi Arabia very unlikely. Wherever he ends up will be somewhere that United can still support him and where he can turn to United if needed.

It also makes United decision make sense despite the contradictory nature of it.

Good post. The decision can be viewed through a cynical lens, but there may be more nuance there, which you suggest. I think I agree.

 

[Jazz]

So I see the discussion elsewhere on why the club didn't discipline Mason - which they should have. However, he does have parents, and as their child they have the primary responsibility for him. Can't put everything on the club with this.

 

[Ekeke]

Well no. But they didn’t say anything about what it was. They only said it wasn’t what he was accused of. Therefore we think about alternatives.

Personally, when I listen to that audio (assuming they are not lying and it is not “what he was accused of”):
Am I 100% sure it’s not aliens? Yes.
Am I 100% sure it’s not Russian spies? Yes.
Am I 100% sure it’s not role play? No.

There are lots of reasons why it could be role play. It doesn’t mean it definitely was. But until they say it wasn’t, I can’t rule it out.

I didn’t know what deepfake was, so thanks for the link. Can’t rule it out, but it seems less plausible that she would do that in my opinion.

Roleplay is ridiculous as a suggestion as soon as you bring the facts into it. The victim released the audio and the photos. She knew what she was doing and so do you.

 

[pocco]

Does anyone know anything about his parents? Never seem to hear about them. Hopefully, they can help him keep it together. I'm uneasy about the fact that it doesn't seem like it will be easy to find him somewhere else to continue playing. Not sure the kid can mentally handle an end to his career.

There's a regular poster on here who always claimed he was very involved with him and his family, throughout Greenwood's career, think a family friend. Since this all came out though I don't believe he's ever said a word in any of the threads, unless I've missed it.

 

[Remember the geese]

There's a regular poster on here who always claimed he was very involved with him and his family, throughout Greenwood's career, think a family friend. Since this all came out though I don't believe he's ever said a word in any of the threads, unless I've missed it.

Might be mistaken but think it was @Adnan

 

[sugar_kane]

What do people make of that Ian Ladyman piece? Seems to paint a picture of an individual who has quite some developmental challenges and may have needed a lot more support from the club throughout his progression through the ranks.

Has he ever given an interview that's not just two minutes post match reaction?

Maybe it’s just me being gullible and falling for paid for PR but it did make me soften my attitude to him a bit.

He’s clearly not the smartest lad, and he was 19 when he did this shit. In this day and age that’s practically still a child.

He’s clearly a prick, but I’d question the likelihood of even the most balanced 21 year old on the planet dealing with their prestigious career falling apart in this manner, at such speed, at such a young age.

If anything it made me more angry at the club for not nurturing him more effectively (thinking just covering for his misdeeds was enough) and for stringing him along so long when everything went to shit, instead of making clear very early on his time at the club was over.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Maybe it’s just me being gullible and falling for paid for PR but it did make me soften my attitude to him a bit.

He’s clearly not the smartest lad, and he was 19 when he did this shit. In this day and age that’s practically still a child.

He’s clearly a prick, but I’d question the likelihood of even the most balanced 21 year old on the planet dealing with their prestigious career falling apart in this manner, at such speed, at such a young age.

If anything it made me more angry at the club for not nurturing him more effectively (thinking just covering for his misdeeds was enough) and for stringing him along so long when everything went to shit, instead of making clear very early on it was game over.

He was a prick. He’d say so himself.

But he’s also imo not neuro-typical and thus a lot of his social language (though not behaviour) has always been VERY poor / weird.

It’s one of the reasons why he was kept off interviews so much.

This is well known by folk who know him well.

 

[Piabetic]

If there really was "new evidence" that would clear his name, or even paint him in a slightly less harsh perspective then its inconceivable that this would not have been made public by now. This would be information that could possibly have saved his career, and if the victim is who we suspect them to be then it would maybe also be in their interest for it to come out. I just think there isn't any. The use of "new evidence" was just a way of saying that they had nothing much to go on after the victim decided to stop co-operating.

We all heard what we heard, and saw what we saw. Without that evidence being out there in public it would have been easy to turn a blind eye and just be glad to have a very promising footballer back in the team, but it is and that's how it is. Ultimately this is a massive headache that we don't really have to concern ourselves with anymore and I firmly believe that as things are now it wont ultimately turn out to be a decision that comes back to bite the club on the backside. He didn't appear to be a very nice guy from his general conduct even if he just appeared quiet and introverted on the pitch, but this information leaks out and I highly doubt his ability from this point to carve out a successful career.