Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[sizzling sausages]

Bringing what Cantona did to that racist into this conversation as though it is remotely comparable is beyond bonkers.

Beckham was mentioned earlier for cheating on his wife once! It's mental.

 

[JeffFromHK]

What’s the world come to when you have to explain that

I was responding to a poster saying that he expects United to have a high moral ground than other clubs and I was telling him IF you want to have a moral high ground, then probably half of United's top 10 players of all time wouldn't have fit playing for us. I WASN"T equating cheating on wife with fighting or raping.

What’s the world come to when I have to explain that

 

[Longshanks]

This whole thread, and the wider reaction of a lot of Utd fans to Greenwood's "exile", is a horrific insight into what some people regard as minor error of judgement - he "made a mistake". Often accompanied by "his missus has forgiven him so...".

But he didn't "make a mistake", he violently assaulted and raped a woman. The fact that she's decided to stay in a relationship with him shouldn't be held against her, but also doesn't remotely exonerate him. He's lucky he's not serving time in prison, and I still don't want him anywhere near the club no matter how well he plays in Spain, or how badly our forwards perform.

It's a horror insight into trail by social media based on flimsy evidence that's for sure.

Noone knows what actually happened apart from a select few people possibly noone apart from Mason and his girlfriend themselves.

Yet there are plenty who have been convinced by the flimsy evidence even though the CPS were far from convinced in the end, so much so they dropped the case.

You are of course entitled to your opinion like anyone but IMO it's hell of a leap to be convinced he is guilty of domestic violence and rape based on the evidence shared on social media.

 

[duffer]

It's a horror insight into trail by social media based on flimsy evidence that's for sure.

Noone knows what actually happened apart from a select few people possibly noone apart from Mason and ******* themselves.

Yet there are plenty who have been convinced by the flimsy evidence even though the CPS were far from convinced in the end, so much so they dropped the case.

You are of course entitled to your opinion like anyone but IMO it's hell of a leap to be convinced he is guilty of domestic violence and rape based on the evidence shared on social media.

What's with the "*****"? Just say his girlfriend.

 

[Lash]

It's a horror insight into trail by social media based on flimsy evidence that's for sure.

Noone knows what actually happened apart from a select few people possibly noone apart from Mason and ******* themselves.

Yet there are plenty who have been convinced by the flimsy evidence even though the CPS were far from convinced in the end, so much so they dropped the case.

You are of course entitled to your opinion like anyone but IMO it's hell of a leap to be convinced he is guilty of domestic violence and rape based on the evidence shared on social media.

How is it a hell of a leap? You can say it's hard to know for certain, but the evidence shared on social media was ridiculously damning hence why he's at fecking Getafe and they supposedly get 20% of the future transfer fee.

 

[golden_blunder]

How is it a hell of a leap? You can say it's hard to know for certain, but the evidence shared on social media was ridiculously damning hence why he's at fecking Getafe and they supposedly get 20% of the future transfer fee.

Good point

 

[sglowrider]

What’s the point in that? The same conversations would be had then in the performance thread.

I was hoping there would be more thread management discipline there. I never veered off the topic there because I appreciated its opportunity.

 

[Cloud7]

I don’t believe that Getafe 40 million story. How often do Spanish clubs outside of real, Barca and atletico have 40 million to spend on one transfer

 

[golden_blunder]

I was hoping there would be more thread management discipline there. I never veered off the topic there because I appreciated its opportunity.

But that’s when this thread was still open to talk about the case in general not just performance. If we closed this thread, everything would be in the other thread

 

[goalscholes]

Amazing how people choose to ignore this as he is good at football or something.

Most don't choose to ignore it. In this case, there is the claim on this forum that the clipped audio is almost 100% proof of his guilt, like otherwise unexplained DNA under a victims fingernails, video of an act or a confession to lawyers. Not to say he’s innocent (although he should be presumed innocent in the eye of the law), but the logical argument here doesn’t hold that the CPS would have full confidence in his conviction with just the content of the tapes, like they would for other types of evidence.

So they then listen to the official CPS statement where it was specifically mentioned that new evidence emerged and have taken the club at its word that a fuller account explains his behaviour to an extent that they would allow him back.

They then realise that:
- we are a football club, not a kangaroo court
- we are part responsible for his upbringing
- we should ensure his partners wishes are respected
- he’s clearly committed some discretions even if they aren’t the ones he was accused of (it was made clear in the club statement), but many people believe rehabilitation is better than punishment with teenagers. A concept members of probably every other football club gets
- from an economic and football sense this is a zero sum game. His value is lower now than ever. We lose fifty million of his value to our rivals, but have to replace him with a player probably worth 100m in today’s money to get someone equivalent. The same rivals perhaps that are playing players accused of the same crimes.

The rationale case for him to stay will win eventually. But it’s a shame our football side has to lose out in the interim. There will be discontent and threats by those wishing to make a point, sure, but given the same fans have cheered players who have revealed greater crimes to their lawyers, we all know they’ll be short lived.

 

[golden_blunder]

I don’t believe that Getafe 40 million story. How often do Spanish clubs outside of real, Barca and atletico have 40 million to spend on one transfer

Conspiracy theory, United give Getafe money to “buy” MG. Getafe get to keep 20%. United look slightly better with that portion of fans who don’t want to lose him for free

 

[sglowrider]

But that’s when this thread was still open to talk about the case in general not just performance. If we closed this thread, everything would be in the other thread

Ok. I will put this thread on ignore. Then hopefully, you can open up the other thread at some point in time.

Cheers!

 

[golden_blunder]

Ok. I will put this thread on ignore. Then hopefully, you can open up the other thread at some point in time.

Cheers!

Sorry I’ll just say it now, we have no intention at this point of reopening another thread. It’s just too much moderation involved. 1 is more than enough

I suspect that the summer will resolve this issue one way or the other

 

[JeffFromHK]

George Best, Ronaldo, Butt, Giggs, Alonso and Mike fecking Tyson(?!) have all done horrible things and shouldn't be celebrated. If they were playing now I wouldn't want any of them at the club.

I hope this makes it easier for the weirdos who keep bringing them up.

As long as there is consistency your opinion is well entitled to and respected. I am totally okay and happy with the opinion of barring Greenwood from the club for being a domestically violent scumbag.

But the thing I have full problem with is the perceived absolutism of some of the posters here, unfortunately a number of them being staff and admins here, who respond to all lines of arguments supporting "Greenwood back" with emotions or mockeries, treating "kick Greenwood out" as some religious doctrine that is unquestionable, and whoever questions that is a scumbag that "condones domestic violence" and deserves mass mockery or responses of "rubbish" "nonsense" and no further replies are needed.

According to your logic, around or perhaps more than half of united's worldwide fanbase are "domestic violence condoning scumbags" (you can check the polls on different United content farm pages on X). Even if not letting Greenwood back is the right thing to do both morally and for the interest of the club/society at large, perhaps some of you people here can rethink whether what you think to be absolutely unquestionable is just something cultural (to make it clear I don't mean "domestic violence" per se is culturally relative, it is not acceptable in the UK, in Saudi Arabia or in Indonesia, but "an employer letting an employer who has one domestic violence history to continue employment" is perhaps culturally relative)?

For some reason the World has turned into large echo chambers in the past decade, perhaps with the aid of social media. even in China, you could laugh about the president (Hu Jintao) in 2010 but laughing at Xi is a social taboo now, and I don't need to talk about how politics have become in the US.

 

[fps]

Perhaps then you can answer my genuine question?

Start with it not being OK at Man Utd but there being examples of other players who have reintegrated into English football, then continue with the crime not being as high profile in Spain ([Irrelevant point]’s involvement in a man’s death really isn’t widely known in England because it happened in Spain), proceed to Getafe not being an especially interesting or much-covered club, and develop from there.

 

[Longshanks]

How is it a hell of a leap? You can say it's hard to know for certain, but the evidence shared on social media was ridiculously damning hence why he's at fecking Getafe and they supposedly get 20% of the future transfer fee.

Ridiculously damming? A few dodgy pictures/videos that could easily be faked or could have nothing to do with Mason anyway and a grainy audio recording that doesn't actually prove or show anything on its own isn't ridiculously damming. It raises suspicion and doubt, but damming evidence? Not even close not on its own.

Why did the club originally plan to bring him back into the fold if that evidence is so damming? Bear in mind the club had access to further evidence in there own investigation as did of course the CPS and in both cases there simply wasn't enough concrete evidence to prove anything.

In terms of morals how long is it morally acceptable to chastise some based on a allegation that can't be proven?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Sorry I’ll just say it now, we have no intention at this point of reopening another thread. It’s just too much moderation involved. 1 is more than enough

I suspect that the summer will resolve this issue one way or the other

How do you find having to deal with all of the libellous statements in this thread versus (not) thread banning users from the performance thread?

 

[Solius]

Ridiculously damming? A few dodgy pictures/videos that could easily be faked or could have nothing to do with Mason anyway and a grainy audio recording that doesn't actually prove or show anything on its own isn't ridiculously damming. It raises suspicion and doubt, but damming evidence? Not even close not on its own.

Why did the club originally plan to bring him back into the fold if that evidence is so damming? Bear in mind the club had access to further evidence in there own investigation as did of course the CPS and in both cases there simply wasn't enough concrete evidence to prove anything.

In terms of morals how long is it morally acceptable to chastise some based on a allegation that can't be proven?

Amazing. People are still going in circles on points already answered in 2022. It's like a new one crawls out from a rock each day.

 

[adexkola]

How is it a hell of a leap? You can say it's hard to know for certain, but the evidence shared on social media was ridiculously damning hence why he's at fecking Getafe and they supposedly get 20% of the future transfer fee.

Well that's because the club backpedaled on it's original plan to reintegrate him and dithered subsequent loan negotiations.

Conspiracy theory, United give Getafe money to “buy” MG. Getafe get to keep 20%. United look slightly better with that portion of fans who don’t want to lose him for free

Sounds fraudulent and incompetent. The latter is right up our alley so you're halfway there

 

[Mainoldo]

I have no interest in boxing nor do I know anything of him to know what you are on about. Strange comment.

BS but will let you off.

 

[Stuu]

He'll be sold to a club in Spain for bargain price, do really well, then be picked up by a Premier League club like Chelsea or Newcastle a couple years down the line. Most of it will be forgotten and the fans concern trolling about him now will be touting forgiveness because he's playing for their club.

 

[BoulderDevil]

[QUOTE="JustAGuest, post: 31492043, member: 78467"
Seeing some of his apologists on here I'm starting to believe he will actually be welcomed back and this will be forgotten about except for the occasional opposition chants. I hope I'm wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Sounds like best case scenario for all parties tbh

 

[Longshanks]

What's with the "*****"? Just say his girlfriend.

Edited, sorry forgot about the censorship.

 

[Stacks]

George Best, Ronaldo, Butt, Giggs, Alonso and Mike fecking Tyson(?!) have all done horrible things and shouldn't be celebrated. If they were playing now I wouldn't want any of them at the club.

I hope this makes it easier for the weirdos who keep bringing them up.

Tupac

 

[TheReligion]

I don’t believe that Getafe 40 million story. How often do Spanish clubs outside of real, Barca and atletico have 40 million to spend on one transfer

I doubt he’ll be moving anywhere permanently in Jan given everything needs to be run past INEOS from now. Unless they’ve already decided to cash in early for FFP.

Id guess they’ll wait until summer though, as is being reported, so they have all the key football people in place before making a decision either way.

Again, reports suggest a return to United is also possible. No one really knows.

I wonder if a sale with buy back option could be offered.

 

[cafecillos]

I'd love to see a Venn diagram of people who think the "she has forgiven him" argument is a valid one and people who believe Getake has made a 40 fecking million pounds offer for Mason Greenwood.

 

[Eli Zee]

would any of you really stop being a fan of the club if they brought Mason back?

I find it hard to believe that so many "lifelong fans" would do that.... especially people on this forum. If you're here, you're likely a bigger supporter than the average.

Theres no excuse to the behavior but the reality is most young footballers being paid a shitload of money will be spoiled morons (school/education 99% of the time takes a step back for the sport). I think giving a 2nd chance is the right move for the club.... he'll either prove to be a really good player and help us for years OR we'll be able to get a big transfer fee for him.

 

[Pickle85]

Ridiculously damming? A few dodgy pictures/videos that could easily be faked or could have nothing to do with Mason anyway and a grainy audio recording that doesn't actually prove or show anything on its own isn't ridiculously damming. It raises suspicion and doubt, but damming evidence? Not even close not on its own.

Why did the club originally plan to bring him back into the fold if that evidence is so damming? Bear in mind the club had access to further evidence in there own investigation as did of course the CPS and in both cases there simply wasn't enough concrete evidence to prove anything.

In terms of morals how long is it morally acceptable to chastise some based on a allegation that can't be proven?

If you had a gun to your head and were asked whether you think he's guilty of domestic abuse, what would your answer be?

It pisses me off how many hide behind the 'we can't be sure...nothing has been proven' argument just to support getting him back. Have a backbone and admit that wanting him back has nothing to do with him being innocent or guilty of what he's been accused and everything to do with him being an exceptional footballer.

 

[Pickle85]

would any of you really stop being a fan of the club if they brought Mason back?

I find it hard to believe that so many "lifelong fans" would do that.... especially people on this forum. If you're here, you're likely a bigger supporter than the average.

Theres no excuse to the behavior but the reality most young footballers being paid a shitload of money will be spoiled morons (school/education 99% of the time takes a step back for the sport). I think giving a 2nd chance is the right move for the club.... he'll either prove to be a really good player and help us for years OR we'll be able to get a big transfer fee for him.

If we're talking hypotheticals, you can see the difference between being a 'spoiled moron' and a violent rapist though, right?!

 

[Mainoldo]

would any of you really stop being a fan of the club if they brought Mason back?

I find it hard to believe that so many "lifelong fans" would do that.... especially people on this forum. If you're here, you're likely a bigger supporter than the average.

Theres no excuse to the behavior but the reality is most young footballers being paid a shitload of money will be spoiled morons (school/education 99% of the time takes a step back for the sport). I think giving a 2nd chance is the right move for the club.... he'll either prove to be a really good player and help us for years OR we'll be able to get a big transfer fee for him.

United could bring him back and we would all do nothing about it. Which is why it will likely happen and it’s that also the right thing to do.

 

[Pickle85]

United could bring him back and we would all do nothing about it. Which is why it will likely happen and it’s that also the right thing to do.

Wrong on both counts.

 

[Solius]

Wrong on both counts.

A good rule of thumb is that whatever Mainoldo thinks of something, the opposite is true.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You’re all hypocrites. I didn’t see any of you back in nazi germany complaining about Hitler being in power but suddenly you’re all high and mighty and not wanting greenwood near Utd. It’s ridiculous. If anything what Hitler did was maybe even worse!

 

[Solius]

You’re all hypocrites. I didn’t see any of you back in nazi germany complaining about Hitler being in power but suddenly you’re all high and mighty and not wanting greenwood near Utd. It’s ridiculous. If anything what Hitler did was maybe even worse!

Mate all there is of Hitler is some flimsy black & white 'evidence' and some hearsay about genocide. Trial by social media if you ask me.

 

[cafecillos]

Mate all there is of Hitler is some flimsy black & white 'evidence' and some hearsay about genocide. Trial by social media if you ask me.

Also, Eva Braun forgave him.

 

[Mainoldo]

A good rule of thumb is that whatever Mainoldo thinks of something, the opposite is true.

I’m never wrong. I just don’t get credit when my opinions turn out true. It’s too painful for some.

 

[Pickle85]

You’re all hypocrites. I didn’t see any of you back in nazi germany complaining about Hitler being in power but suddenly you’re all high and mighty and not wanting greenwood near Utd. It’s ridiculous. If anything what Hitler did was maybe even worse!

Show me a guilty verdict mate. The video evidence is damning sure but Hitler was never convicted by a court of his peers so deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Mate all there is of Hitler is some flimsy black & white 'evidence' and some hearsay about genocide. Trial by social media if you ask me.

It makes you wonder if it wasn’t for the whole being able to record things on phones and post it for the world to hear would there be anything even legit against greenwood? I don’t think so. Just goes to show like if it happened in the 90s then it probably would’ve been totally fine. Worlds gone mad.

 

[Solius]

I’m never wrong. I just don’t get credit when my opinions turn out true. It’s too painful for some.

See you just flip this to get the truth:

I'm wrong all the time. I get constantly quoted when my opinions prove to be incorrect. It's very easy for everyone.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Conspiracy theory, United give Getafe money to “buy” MG. Getafe get to keep 20%. United look slightly better with that portion of fans who don’t want to lose him for free

Hahaha what?!