Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[El Zoido]

There are definitely situations in which it could have been taken out of context. I have first hand experience of this and it 100% could happen. The idea shouldn’t be mocked just because what you heard sounds horrible. Although personally I’m not exactly convinced that’s what’s happening here.

 

[cafecillos]

There are definitely situations in which it could have been taken out of context. I have first hand experience of this and it 100% could happen. The idea shouldn’t be mocked just because what you heard sounds horrible. Although personally I’m not exactly convinced that’s what’s happening here.

The thing is, if it was role-play or some kind of sexual fantasy or whatever, which are really the only fairly harmless possibilities, how the feck have they let it get to the point where we are now after all this time? I mean, they chose the current shitshow over a few weeks of mild embarrassment over their sexual kinks? Nah, I'm not buying that.

And that's if we only had the audio, but we also have the pictures. How likely is that all that shite was consensual?

 

[Posh Red]

The thing is, if it was role-play or some kind of sexual fantasy or whatever, which are really the only fairly harmless possibilities, how the feck have they let it get to the point where we are now after all this time? I mean, they chose the current shitshow over a few weeks of mild embarrassment over their sexual kinks? Nah, I'm not buying that.

I wouldn’t bother mate. It takes a minimal amount of common sense to work out what’s happening in the recording. Many just don’t want to see it, and would prefer to accuse others of ‘wanting things to be black and white’ etc.

 

[Pickle85]

The thing is, if it was role-play or some kind of sexual fantasy or whatever, which are really the only fairly harmless possibilities, how the feck have they let it get to the point where we are now after all this time? I mean, they chose the current shitshow over a few weeks of mild embarrassment over their sexual kinks? Nah, I'm not buying that.

And that's if we only had the audio, but we also have the pictures. How likely is that all that shite was consensual?

Exactly. Like it's more awkward to be branded a rapist than to come clean about their kinks.

 

[Lash]

Damning for me means it strongly suggests they're guilty. I don't think listening to it makes me confident they're guilty of attempted rape. Doesn't mean it may not be happening in that audio, just means I'm not convinced or that I have strong feelings it's happening from what I listened to.

Attempted rape is if someone clearly intended to sexually penetrate the victim without consent. As an athlete I imagine Mason is quite strong compared to the accuser too. Listening to that was I convinced I'm listening to someone forcefully attempt to penetrate without consent? I'm not.

There is alot of presuming and believing because its very much alot of guess work. I could use similar language to others and say "he did this/that" but that implies I know - I don't. You've presented other possible explanations yourself with "may have", "could have", "may believe", "may have asked them to". I think we're aligned in terms of the language we used as neither of us know.

I don't think I have presented the parents statement as fact though as you've literally just spoken about the language I've used when giving possible explanations. I was challenging this for people who have decided a verdict because they've obviously processed this when coming to a decision and either dismissed it as not being instrumental or came to a conclusion thst collaborates with their verdict.

In terms of the investigation I did do a bit more research into it last night and came across some interesting points I didn't notice before. I'll raise this at the end of the post.

I would agree that he's chosen to be vague and stay silent on the matter.

I think I've expanded on why I don't think I'm listening to rape earlier in this post. I think if the audio alone was enough evidence then the case could have proceeded? I'm not convinced that the case dropping was solely down to a statement being withdrawn either. Which I'll expand on at the end. And a statement provided by the CPS or Man Utd (I'll find it and provide it) did say the audio was part of a longer recording. I presume the content in this longer recording may also offer reasoning and an explanation for the decisions made from the investigation.

The Myers Briggs us probably a poor example. Honestly I find that stuff interesting and I remember it discussing thr different thinking methods in the past. I googled it and found the first result discussing the difference in the way people think. I then quickly jotted down the shortest explanation I could as it wasn't meant to be a big part of the post. It may be a shit point. But an autistic person compared to someone with alot of emotional intelligence will process this differently. Whether that makes a big difference in terms of wider population and how they process it I'm not sure. I'm quite mathematical and logical myself and I prefer black and white over subjective topics. So I presume due to how my mind works thst my thinking is likely a factor. I don't think my method of thinking is better or makes me better equipped than anyone else in analysing this. But it may explain a difference in how we reach our conclusions.

See that's interesting because I'd be the other way round and think there's more chance of domestic abuse over rape. But that's just from how I've read it.

In terms of the investigations. There are things surrounding it which add further questions for me.

Richard Arnold said, "The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022"

Mason Greenwood was charged in October 2022. I can't find anything online which says when the witness withdrew their statement. Could there statement have been withdrawn in April 2022 before charged or does anyone have a source which says when it was?

When the case was dropped we were told by the CPS:

"“In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction. In these circumstances, we are under a duty to stop the case."

Key witnesses is plural. So someone aside from the accuser also withdrew a statement. I think that's a key bit of info. In addition it says "and new material came to light".

Unless the new material was instrumental in changing the decision it wouldn't have been mentioned. So this is a key piece of evidence in the case.

Going back to the key witnesses comment. Again I can see the accuser tried to stop the investigation in April 2022 - is that when their statement was also withdrawn or is there anything else which gives an indication when it was withdrawn?

Then between October and February new material and removal of a secondary witness (and potentially the accusers witness statement if it wasn't revoked when they tried to cancel the investigation in April 2022) found the case dropped? Either way the case was never dropped solely due to the accuser removing their statement like many try to imply. It was dropped due to multiple witnesses removing their statement and new evidence.

As for the new evidence, Richard Arnold did say:

"We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online."

So that's confirmation that the audio was cropped in black and white there. So no I cannot be confident that a short exert I listened to was an attempted rape. Especially upon learning that additional evidence, possibly this longer recording, came to light which stopped the case alongside witness(es) removing their statements.

Now unless of course the CPS is lying about additional evidence influencing their decision. And if Richard Arnold is also lying about the recording being an exert from a larger recording. Then I can't help but think what is on this longer recording is critical in whether or not attempted rape is happening. That alongside my doubts from listening to the recording is enough for the evidence to not be damning in my eyes.

Thank you for actually explaining yourself and engaging.

I don't really want to go into detail on why I disagree with your definition there - but it does make me understand your reasoning. I think we should leave that there on such a sensitive topic.

I agree, and my point is it shouldn't be such guess work if he's clean enough to warrant returning. I think we're in agreement there's a lot of unknowns and for you that means you can't say he's guilty, but for me that means he is in no position to be seen as innocent until it's explained properly. I'm not condemning him to prison.

I just don't think you can use that as a challenge, if you say "you can't be certain of what you've heard" as a rebuttal. Someone can say they can't be certain back for any of your points?

I'll refer to my first point.

I do get what you're exploring, I'd just be wary of trying to over analyse on this. Unless you're planning to refer to specific examples, you're in danger of talking very generically and also reaching conclusions without a lot to base them on.

Again, I get your opinion and It's a fair point on the longer excerpt if that is the new evidence the CPS is talking about. The longer excerpt doesn't necessarily mean the whole recording either. I don't know who the original witnesses are, could the extra one could have been a family member? Again if they were witnesses they were originally being used to prosecute Mason, so two people originally were going on record against him and now they're not? What's changed? This is why the lack of detail is damaging for everyone. It could absolve him as much as it could incriminate him or her.

I think I understand your point of view, I personally need far more explanation of what's gone on, before I can ever be confident supporting someone like Mason.

 

[Gandalf]

Probably just shouting into the void here but I find this thread baffling. So much animosity being generated over a settled question.

The argument over whether he did it and the essay long posts of people justifying why they feel one way or another seems like the ultimate exercise in pointlessness. There seems to be a core delusion within these arguments that somehow if they can just persuade other posters to their point of view, which clearly is never going to happen, then this may impact the decision over Mason's future. The reality is that Mason will never play for this club again and is going to be sold in the summer and all of the rest is just noise.

 

[Raoul]

Probably just shouting into the void here but I find this thread baffling. So much animosity being generated over a settled question.

The argument over whether he did it and the essay long posts of people justifying why they feel one way or another seems like the ultimate exercise in pointlessness. There seems to be a core delusion within these arguments that somehow if they can just persuade other posters to their point of view, which clearly is never going to happen, then this may impact the decision over Mason's future. The reality is that Mason will never play for this club again and is going to be sold in the summer and all of the rest is just noise.

We actually don't know what's going to happen in the summer, which is one of the many reasons people are continuing to debate. He could be sold, he could be brought back. The club have already tried to bring him back once and its not outside the real of possibility they may do it again, especially if they can't get the fee they want and the new regime assess that the likes of Antony, Pellistri, Rashford and Sancho need to be shown the door.

 

[Rood]

The poll question was just if you wanted him back, but this subsequent convo is about who is still unsure and what would tip to them to make a decision either way. I imagine quite a few of those unsure will hold back from full endorsement til they see how the season pans out.

I think it's possible they do an interview, but it's not the easy PR win some might think. It'd have to acknowledge the 'mistakes' MG admitted too, however they'll be framed, while not making his partner sound like she was lying. All while not explicitly having MG admit to domestic violence, which would presumably negate the point of the exercise, unless he does a full confession and talks about being reformed, which seems an outside bet, but who knows. Everyone will be watching it and you can bet the tabloids will all have body language experts, DV counsellors and the like scrutinising every frame of the video.

Yes exactly

And I agree that it won't be easy and that's surely part of the reason it hasn't happened already.

At the moment we dont even know if they actually want to come back anyway.

The club made a mess of the statements and timings last year, hopefully things will be better managed by the new regime.

 

[Gandalf]

We actually don't know what's going to happen in the summer, which is one of the many reasons people are continuing to debate. He could be sold, he could be brought back. The club have already tried to bring him back once and its not outside the real of possibility they may do it again, especially if they can't get the fee they want and the new regime assess that the likes of Antony, Pellistri, Rashford and Sancho need to be shown the door.

Well I am not going to contribute to what I just railed against so I will just say that I would be utterly astonished at any other outcome than a full sale in the summer and you can all feel free to quote me on this when the time comes. Frankly there is more chance of SAF coming out of retirement to be our next manager and the class of 92 lacing them up again next season than there is of INEOS starting their first ever transfer window with the biggest media shitstorm in the clubs history by bringing back Mason.

 

[Raoul]

Well I am not going to contribute to what I just railed against so I will just say that I would be utterly astonished at any other outcome than a full sale in the summer and you can all feel free to quote me on this when the time comes. Frankly there is more chance of SAF coming out of retirement to be our next manager and the class of 92 lacing them up again next season than there is of INEOS starting their first ever transfer window with the biggest media shitstorm in the clubs history by bringing back Mason.

That may be the prevailing logic - INEOS wouldn't dare begin their tenure by bringing Greenwood back, but we won't have any evidence of what their position is until they actually take one. There was also a prevailing sentiment 9 months ago that the club would sell the player last summer, but they instead attempted to bring him back before loaning him to Getafe. Given what transpired late last summer, its fair to say United have an exponentially higher chance of bringing him back than the class of 92 lacing it up again.

 

[El Zoido]

The thing is, if it was role-play or some kind of sexual fantasy or whatever, which are really the only fairly harmless possibilities, how the feck have they let it get to the point where we are now after all this time? I mean, they chose the current shitshow over a few weeks of mild embarrassment over their sexual kinks? Nah, I'm not buying that.

And that's if we only had the audio, but we also have the pictures. How likely is that all that shite was consensual?

As someone who has reasonable experience in this realm (not wanting to delve too much in to it here), it doesn’t sound like CNC. It gave me bad vibes. Not trying to condemn based on something that could be misconstrued, however. I’m open to the idea it’s a misunderstanding, but if the club ever wants to bring him back they need to be fully transparent with the fans, the women’s team, everyone in fact, as to why this isn’t as it seems. Seems to me there’s an awful lot to this story that we don’t know.

 

[JagUTD]

What is it about the clip that suggest to you that it isn't an attempt to rape?

It's a huge leap from a verbal threat to committing the physical act. Whether in this example or just in general. Here the threat was deemed credible enough to warrant an extensive investigation but ultimately the case collapsed.

Even in fits of rage most people come to their senses before crossing lines you can't come back from. That's why physical acts of extreme violence are relatively rare.

 

[JagUTD]

The thing is, if it was role-play or some kind of sexual fantasy or whatever, which are really the only fairly harmless possibilities, how the feck have they let it get to the point where we are now after all this time? I mean, they chose the current shitshow over a few weeks of mild embarrassment over their sexual kinks? Nah, I'm not buying that.

And that's if we only had the audio, but we also have the pictures. How likely is that all that shite was consensual?

Even if this was the case and it was role play, at this point there's nothing to be gained by either of them coming out and saying that was the case.

If Greenwood claimed this was the case publicly nobody is going to change their view.

If Haley claimed it was the case she opens herself up to the very worst the internet has to offer, whether it's trolls claiming they always knew she was lying or people claiming she is being coerced into making such statements.

Whether individually or together, at this stage claiming it was role play or anything similar serves no purpose publicly.

Out of a sense of protecting her, she will very likely have been advised not to speak about it in any capacity.

 

[Pickle85]

Even if this was the case and it was role play, at this point there's nothing to be gained by either of them coming out and saying that was the case.

If Greenwood claimed this was the case publicly nobody is going to change their view.

If Haley claimed it was the case she opens herself up to the very worst the internet has to offer, whether it's trolls claiming they always knew she was lying or people claiming she is being coerced into making such statements.

Whether individually or together, at this stage claiming it was role play or anything similar serves no purpose publicly.

Out of a sense of protecting her, she will very likely have been advised not to speak about it in any capacity.

Or protecting him. I think it's probably more likely that protection of HIM is higher on everyone's agenda, his included.

 

[JagUTD]

Or protecting him. I think it's probably more likely that protection of HIM is higher on everyone's agenda, his included.

Maybe but given a section of the public view him quite negatively, it's not working particularly well.

 

[Pickle85]

Maybe but given a section of the public view him quite negatively, it's not working particularly well.

Given the images, audio and his behaviour (breaking bail conditions etc) out in the public domain I would say he's doing just fine.

 

[Duafc]

It's a huge leap from a verbal threat to committing the physical act. Whether in this example or just in general. Here the threat was deemed credible enough to warrant an extensive investigation but ultimately the case collapsed.

Even in fits of rage most people come to their senses before crossing lines you can't come back from. That's why physical acts of extreme violence are relatively rare.

I mean I don’t think it really is.

But even accepting that - within the recording is the statement ‘stop putting your dick there’ in distressed tones, followed ultimately by ‘push me again one more time and watch what happens’

The idea that this wasn’t a physical encounter is pretty hard to stand over. Clearly he was forcing himself on her to the point she was pushing him away, with him threatening violence.

Painting it as some sort of throwaway threat to rape, only, if such a thing exists is not aligned with the actual content.

Again, people should listen to the tones of their voices and the words they are using, it is, clearly, what it is.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Sidenote - you have a weird thing for suggesting alternative scenarios for that audio clip.

That’s because there’s an incredible amount of daft people pretending they can’t even imagine how a longer clip could change the tone/event, when clearly there’s a tonne of ways a longer clip could change everything.

 

[sepulturite]

That’s because there’s an incredible amount of daft people pretending they can’t even imagine how a longer clip could change the tone/event, when clearly there’s a tonne of ways a longer clip could change everything.

Seriously? There is no way any longer clip could somehow change what we'd already heard. He was clearly violent towards her in the bit that we did hear, the pictures released proved what he's capable of, so nothing that comes after is going to change that.

 

[Lash]

Seriously? There is no way any longer clip could somehow change what we'd already heard. He was clearly violent towards her in the bit that we did hear, the pictures released proved what he's capable of, so nothing that comes after is going to change that.

You're forgetting the "lol, jk" defence

 

[sepulturite]

You're forgetting the "lol, jk" defence

Yeh exactly, are people seriously saying that in the longer clip that MG is turning around to her and going "Aha I'm only joking, I really had you going there didn't I?!" and her responding "Oh mason, you got me again with your silliness!" , or something equally ridiculous? C'mon ffs, have a bit of common sense people.

 

[golden_blunder]

And I would have gotten away with it too if not for you meddling kids!

 

[BristolMick]

What is it about the clip that suggest to you that it isn't an attempt to rape?

It could be attempt to rape. Its not damning evidence which convinces me without reasonable doubt.

When I'm stating my opinions, I'm basing them on all the evidence and information we have rather than looking at each piece individually. I don't necessarily think that's a bad way to analyse things when there's such serious accusations. It would be like me suggesting he's innocent because of Man Utds investigation while ignoring the audio. You have to look at everything as a whole and when I do, I don't find it damning that he attempted to rape but I also don't rule out the possibility either.

Thank you for actually explaining yourself and engaging.

I don't really want to go into detail on why I disagree with your definition there - but it does make me understand your reasoning. I think we should leave that there on such a sensitive topic.

I agree, and my point is it shouldn't be such guess work if he's clean enough to warrant returning. I think we're in agreement there's a lot of unknowns and for you that means you can't say he's guilty, but for me that means he is in no position to be seen as innocent until it's explained properly. I'm not condemning him to prison.

I just don't think you can use that as a challenge, if you say "you can't be certain of what you've heard" as a rebuttal. Someone can say they can't be certain back for any of your points?

I'll refer to my first point.

I do get what you're exploring, I'd just be wary of trying to over analyse on this. Unless you're planning to refer to specific examples, you're in danger of talking very generically and also reaching conclusions without a lot to base them on.

Again, I get your opinion and It's a fair point on the longer excerpt if that is the new evidence the CPS is talking about. The longer excerpt doesn't necessarily mean the whole recording either. I don't know who the original witnesses are, could the extra one could have been a family member? Again if they were witnesses they were originally being used to prosecute Mason, so two people originally were going on record against him and now they're not? What's changed? This is why the lack of detail is damaging for everyone. It could absolve him as much as it could incriminate him or her.

I think I understand your point of view, I personally need far more explanation of what's gone on, before I can ever be confident supporting someone like Mason.

Thanks! Its been an enjoyable discussion and it's always good to hear different perspectives on things.

I agree that in terms of a defence "I can't be certain" isn't going to hold up. I'm not trying to say he's innocent from the recording or defend it. But I can't be certain that I'm listening to attempted rape either.

The 2nd, or more, witnesses do add another twist to the case. I think knowing so little on them makes it impossible to speculate about but it does again highlight how little we know compared to those involved in investigations.

Thanks for the insight into your opinions and for taking the time to answer my questions. If I was to try to summarise. You've not seen enough to convince you he's innocent while I've not seen enough to convince me he's guilty.

I think with time more people will soften on Greenwood if he stays out of trouble. If Ravel Morisson can play in England with his history and still.be relatively well received then with time so can Greenwood.

 

[Pickle85]

Why do people insist on applying criminal court level evidentiary standards to forming personal opinions in this case? It's baffling.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Why do people insist on applying criminal court level evidentiary standards to forming personal opinions in this case? It's baffling.

Probably because we’ve many times previously (and one case very recently) seen really damning evidence completely unravel when put under cross examination. Let’s be honest here, the majority were absolutely convinced of Depp’s wife beating, yet once in a courtroom the story was turned completely around.
Probably because the CPS cited not just the withdrawal of the key witness but also “new evidence” and because his employer also made claim to evidence (longer tape) that hasn’t been made ccessible to the public.

Some people in that situation don’t feel comfortable with pretending they know the full story.

Not sure how many hundreds of times this needs explaining to you.

 

[Pickle85]

Probably because we’ve many times previously (and one case very recently) seen really damning evidence completely unravel when put under cross examination. Let’s be honest here, the majority were absolutely convinced of Depp’s wife beating, yet once in a courtroom the story was turned completely around.
Probably because the CPS cited not just the withdrawal of the key witness but also “new evidence” and because his employer also made claim to evidence (longer tape) that hasn’t been made ccessible to the public.

Some people in that situation don’t feel comfortable with pretending they know the full story.

Not sure how many hundreds of times this needs explaining to you.

I'm not sure how many times you need explaining to you that the vast majority of people make most of their decisions without imposing these sorts of evidentiary requirements.

Also, the Depp case is a terrible comparison as he was the plaintiff, suing her for defamation. Greenwood has shown absolutely no desire to do the same.

 

[TheLittleOne]

There are definitely situations in which it could have been taken out of context. I have first hand experience of this and it 100% could happen. The idea shouldn’t be mocked just because what you heard sounds horrible. Although personally I’m not exactly convinced that’s what’s happening here.

If the extended version of the audio would indicate that it's all a role play or that it's all taken out of context then why wasn't it released to the public. Why the silence from Greenwood and the victim side?
There aren't many things you could be acused of that are worse than (attempted) rape. Surely you would do anything you could to clear your name!

I think it actually happend, she uploaded the evidence and later regretted doing so for whatever reasons I don't want to speculate about.

United sent him on loan to get him out of the firing line and are hoping that after the loan the public opinion has calmed down enough to bring him back.
From Uniteds point of view it's probably more important to not lose out on a 70M(or whatever his value is) talent than whether or not he's actually innocent.

 

[Wibble]

This is the crux of your issue and many of the most ardent Greenwood out posters. It’s pure conjecture and frankly nonsense. I was ready to wash my hands of him if he was proven guilty in a court of law. He wasn’t so as Rozay says, we can’t just act as if he’s guilty.

It is nothing to do with criminal conviction. I don't want an utter scumbag like him anywhere near the club. It is that simple.

 

[Wibble]

I'm not sure how many times you need explaining to you that the vast majority of people make most of their decisions without imposing these sorts of evidentiary requirements.

Also, the Depp case is a terrible comparison as he was the plaintiff, suing her for defamation. Greenwood has shown absolutely no desire to do the same.

And I want neither Heard nor Depp anywhere near the club either.

 

[Wibble]

Stopped reading here. Do those 'plenty of cases' you refer to include DV cases where the abused party is the key witness? If not, it's totally irrelevant.

It is complete bollocks. Very few DV or sexual assault (or similar) cases progress when the complainant withdraws cooperation with the prosecution.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

I don't want Ryan Giggs near the club

 

[Wibble]

I don't want Ryan Giggs near the club

Or Ronaldo. Or George Best. Or some other player that has nothing to do with United and did bad stuff.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Or Ronaldo. Or George Best.

Exactly. But it is a bit easier with Best.

 

[Wibble]

Exactly. But it is a bit easier with Best.

In that we would have to dig him up to re-sign him?

 

[Peter van der Gea]

In that we would have to dig him up to re-sign him?

Yup. Cos he was old. Almost like he was from a different time...

 

[Pickle85]

It is complete bollocks. Very few DV or sexual assault (or similar) cases progress when the complainant withdraws cooperation with the prosecution.

Yep,
Absolutely, yet another dishonest line of argument that needs exposing. Like the irrelevant comparisons to other players (or actors) in some way implicated in DV cases in the past.

 

[El Zoido]

If the extended version of the audio would indicate that it's all a role play or that it's all taken out of context then why wasn't it released to the public. Why the silence from Greenwood and the victim side?
There aren't many things you could be acused of that are worse than (attempted) rape. Surely you would do anything you could to clear your name!

I think it actually happend, she uploaded the evidence and later regretted doing so for whatever reasons I don't want to speculate about.

United sent him on loan to get him out of the firing line and are hoping that after the loan the public opinion has calmed down enough to bring him back.
From Uniteds point of view it's probably more important to not lose out on a 70M(or whatever his value is) talent than whether or not he's actually innocent.

Yeah I don’t necessarily think it’s that, I’m not saying it is, but there’s just something about the overly confident mocking of any explanation that exonerates him that rubs me the wrong way. Anyone making such a statement definitely doesn’t have all the details. Given what we’ve heard I don’t assume it’s been misinterpreted or taken out of context, but I will be open minded to the idea it could have been. It’s not impossible. I’d agree that if there was more to the recording we’d probably have heard it by now, but it’s all uncomfortable (and private) stuff to put out there. Probably a whole lot about this we don’t know. He’d have to be innocent for me to want him back at United though.

 

[TheLittleOne]

Yeah I don’t necessarily think it’s that, I’m not saying it is, but there’s just something about the overly confident mocking of any explanation that exonerates him that rubs me the wrong way. Anyone making such a statement definitely doesn’t have all the details. Given what we’ve heard I don’t assume it’s been misinterpreted or taken out of context, but I will be open minded to the idea it could have been. It’s not impossible. I’d agree that if there was more to the recording we’d probably have heard it by now, but it’s all uncomfortable (and private) stuff to put out there. Probably a whole lot about this we don’t know. He’d have to be innocent for me to want him back at United though.

I understand. I would also agree that there is a lot we don't know about. But to me, altough not impossible, an alternative explanation is just very unlikely. Of course its uncomfortable talking about your private (sex) life and you don't want people to know everything about it, however it's surely even more uncomfortable being accused of being a rapist and have people talking and speculating about you years later. Makes no sense to me to be so ashamed of what actually happend that you not try to clear things up and to prefer the second scenario.

 

[BD]

That’s because there’s an incredible amount of daft people pretending they can’t even imagine how a longer clip could change the tone/event, when clearly there’s a tonne of ways a longer clip could change everything.

We can imagine it, but we can also immediately dismiss explanations like the below as completely unrealistic:

the audio continues, she says extremely firmly “stop now Mason, this is not funny now” to which he instantly stops and apologises for taking it too far.

I mean, come on.

 

[Duafc]

We can imagine it, but we can also immediately dismiss explanations like the below as completely unrealistic:



I mean, come on.

Laughable if it wasn’t so bleak.