Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Cal?]

Eh...yeah, lets criticise Messi's international performances, and completely ignore Ronaldo's to suit the context of your argument.

Granted, Argentina have generally been better than Portugal, but it's hardly as if Portugal are a shit side. They regularly make competitions, and often make it past the group stages of them as well.

While I felt like some people vastly overrated Messi's World Cup performances last year and he wasn't the best player at the tournament, I do think that he performed very well overall, and Ronaldo didn't. Sorry, but if you're going to criticise Messi's international record, it's a bit daft to just say Ronaldo doesn't count.

Messi still hasn't had a single international tournament that has matched Ronaldo's WC 2006.

If you take both players out of their national sides, Argentina will likely still be one of the top 5 favourites for a WC, Portugal will struggle to qualify.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Ronaldo can turn a decent side into something extraordinary. Messi is unstoppable in an unstoppable side.

That's a pile of drivel

How can a guy who doesn't dictate play or get nearly as involved in the build up turn a decent side into an extraordinary one? Worked for Portugal hasn't it.

 

[Vialli_92]

That's a pile of drivel

How can a guy who doesn't dictate play or get nearly as involved in the build up turn a decent side into an extraordinary one? Worked for Portugal hasn't it.

Spot on!

 

[Ish]

Messi still hasn't had a single international tournament that has matched Ronaldo's WC 2006.

If you take both players out of their national sides, Argentina will likely still be one of the top 5 favourites for a WC, Portugal will struggle to qualify.

Wasn't Messi POTT in WC 2014?

 

[Sammyjunn]

Really? Argentina's record in the last 8 years tell a different story...

Well the fact that Messi took them to a WC final with him as the only WC player ( di maria and aguero were half injured and not playing to their capabilities).

 

[Vialli_92]

Wasn't Messi POTT in WC 2014?

Doesn't count because Cal says so though.

 

[Cheesy]

Messi still hasn't had a single international tournament that has matched Ronaldo's WC 2006.

If you take both players out of their national sides, Argentina will likely still be one of the top 5 favourites for a WC, Portugal will struggle to qualify.

I'd say 2014 does. A very good tournament, although not the best player overall. That could also apply for Ronaldo in 2006, so I don't think the argument that Messi hasn't matched Ronaldo at international level works.

On the second point, that's because Messi's in an Argentinian team which is overloaded with top quality attackers, but is largely lacking in other areas of the field. And I still think Portugal would have a decent chance of qualifying for tournaments without Ronaldo. Certainly, it's not as if he's been particularly impressive when they've reached them.

 

[Cal?]

Comparing International football and club football is not accurate at all. They are completely different and the fact u bring this up is quite ridiculous.

I agree it's not accurate at all, but you were the one who said "I am willing to bet that if u took Messi out of that Barca team they wouldn't have won half the trophies they won without him." which there is no way to prove, you can say the same about Ronaldo both in his United days and Real days.

The truth of Spain's success is their key players played with each other week in week out, and even then the other players that filled out their squad were world class. No other team in international football had anything like that advantage. People who actually know a bit about football and don't simply stare at numbers and trophies can figure this out.

Prime Iniesta and Xavi running the midfield, their club captain behind them. Then padded out with a world class Torres in 2008, and Villa in 2008 and 2010 when he was in my opinion the best centre forward in the world. Yeah, crazy that Spain did well, that clearly proves anyone could go into that Barca team and do what Messi does, like Zlatan, Villa, Alexis...errr wait

When did I say anyone could go into that Barca team and do what he does? Please don't make up shit to suit your argument.

 

[devilish]

Is there any evidence that he's more capable of doing this than Messi? Messi plays superb in an incredible side to be fair, but so does Ronaldo. His three good years for us came in years we won the title, and while Barca have often been better than Real Madrid, Ronaldo's still been consistently playing in a top world team, surrounded by other world class players.

He managed to paper our cracks towards the end of his career with us (I am not saying that we were shit, but we weren't twice CL finalist level) and was simply magnificent in a Real team which was clearly inferior to Barcelona. Messi has never emulated his form with Barca with the Argentinian squad.

I believe that Messi's style is more pleasing to the eye. However if I had to choose which player I want in my team, it would be Ronaldo all the time. Its basically Giggs vs Scholes all over again.

 

[Cheesy]

Wasn't Messi POTT in WC 2014?

To be fair, I thought that award for Messi was quite undeserved, but yeah, the argument that Messi hasn't matched Ronaldo's performances at a WC is nonsense.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I'd say 2014 does. A very good tournament, although not the best player overall. That could also apply for Ronaldo in 2006, so I don't think the argument that Messi hasn't matched Ronaldo at international level works.

On the second point, that's because Messi's in an Argentinian team which is overloaded with top quality attackers, but is largely lacking in other areas of the field. And I still think Portugal would have a decent chance of qualifying for tournaments without Ronaldo. Certainly, it's not as if he's been particularly impressive when they've reached them.

Copa America 2007 too. Despite the heavy defeat in the final to brazil he was brilliant, especially for a 19 year old.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

What a player Messi is, this isn't even a contest right now. Every game Messi plays ends up turning into a personal montage of himself destroying the opposition.

Ronaldo, Zidane, Cruyff, Maradona, De Stefano, Pele, no one comes close to this guy when he's on form, no one.

Ronaldo has deserved both his Ballon'dor awards, no doubt. But at this rate, it's going to be 5 times Messi.

 

[Ish]

Because there is no proper argument for it. They both score an obsene number of goals but messi is obscenely good even apart from goals whereas Ronaldo simply is not. They are only comparable when it comes to stats really.

Nail on head.

 

[iammemphis]

God im so bored of this persistent "whose better" rubbish.. Can't wait for them to retire just so its over!

 

[CLARiiON]

I would like Ronaldo to take on players and try to make something happen rather than playing simple pass and just shooting. I think we can all agree that the Ronaldo from United was much more exciting to see than the present Ronaldo. It's not like he lost pace or stamina, but he just seems to be interested in scoring goals and not much else. Rest of his overall game has actually regressed over last couple of seasons. Ronaldo has total 6 attempts to tackle in the league in 20 games. You would expect more from a physically fit player like him.

 

[devilish]

That's a pile of drivel

How can a guy who doesn't dictate play or get nearly as involved in the build up turn a decent side into an extraordinary one? Worked for Portugal hasn't it.

I've said a decent side. Portugal weaknesses does not make it a decent (or top) side.

 

[Cal?]

Well the fact that Messi took them to a WC final with him as the only WC player ( di maria and aguero were half injured and not playing to their capabilities).

Mascherano and the defence took them to the WC final. Messi did not score a single goal in the knockout stage and Argentina generally relied on their defence to bore their way to the final.

I'd say 2014 does. A very good tournament, although not the best player overall. That could also apply for Ronaldo in 2006, so I don't think the argument that Messi hasn't matched Ronaldo at international level works.

On the second point, that's because Messi's in an Argentinian team which is overloaded with top quality attackers, but is largely lacking in other areas of the field. And I still think Portugal would have a decent chance of qualifying for tournaments without Ronaldo. Certainly, it's not as if he's been particularly impressive when they've reached them.

Portugal probably wouldn't have qualified for 2014 if Ronaldo didn't play in that playoff where he and Zlatan tried to show the world that football matches can be played by just 2 players.

 

[Ish]

To be fair, I thought that award for Messi was quite undeserved, but yeah, the argument that Messi hasn't matched Ronaldo's performances at a WC is nonsense.

Exactly the point I was proving to Cal? .

If you're honestly that blinded to say Messi's WC didn't match Ronaldo's (let alone best it), then there's no point, right?

 

[Snake Plissken]

I've said a decent side. Portugal weaknesses does not make it a decent side.

He's never turned a decent side into an extraordinary one. And Portugal are more than decent, the way you and Cal? try to pretend they're level with the Faroe Islands is hilarious

 

[devilish]

What a player Messi is, this isn't even a contest right now. Every game Messi plays ends up turning into a personal montage of himself destroying the opposition.

Ronaldo, Zidane, Cruyff, Maradona, De Stefano, Pele, no one comes close to this guy when he's on form, no one.

Ronaldo has deserved both his Ballon'dor awards, no doubt. But at this rate, it's going to be 5 times Messi.

No one is even close to Maradona

 

[CLARiiON]

God im so bored of this persistent "whose better" rubbish.. Can't wait for them to retire just so its over!

LVG knows you're wasting time on forums?

 

[devilish]

He's never turned a decent side into an extraordinary one. And Portugal are more than decent, the way you and Cal? try to pretend they're level with the Faroe Islands is hilarious

I haven't said that.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I would like Ronaldo to take on players and try to make something happen rather than playing simple pass and just shooting. I think we can all agree that the Ronaldo from United was mush more exciting to see than the present Ronaldo. It's not like he lost pace or stamina, but he just seems to be interested in scoring goals and not much else. Rest of his overall game has actually regressed over last couple of seasons. Ronaldo has total 6 attempts to tackle in the league in 20 games. You would expect more from a physically fit player like him.

His assist stats are actually very misleading.

Neymar reminds me Ronaldo actually, the United one from 06-07. Scores goals, lots of trickery, very direct and constantly running at defenders and prone to some unintelligent and frustrating play but great to watch.

 

[Cheesy]

He managed to paper our cracks towards the end of his career with us (I am not saying that we were shit, but we weren't twice CL finalist level) and was simply magnificent in a Real team which was clearly inferior to Barcelona. Messi has never emulated his form with Barca with the Argentinian squad.

I believe that Messi is more pleasing to the eye. However if I had to choose which player I want in my team, it would be Ronaldo all the time. Its basically Giggs vs Scholes all over again.

There's a lot incorrect about that.

Our 2007-2009 team was absolutely superb. We had a world class goalkeeper in VDS, arguably the world's best defensive duo in Vidic and Ferdinand, and a top quality left-back in Evra. In an attacking sense, while Ronaldo was naturally our best player, we also had Rooney, Berbatov and Tevez as well. In fact, our weaknesses in 2008/2009 largely came from not scoring enough goals. Ronaldo had a good season, but he wasn't even good enough to win the PL best player awards, didn't reach his goalscoring heights of 2007/2008, and many would say Vidic was our best player that year. He didn't paper over cracks: he was the best player in an excellent all-round side.

And again, he was Real Madrid's best player (still is of course), and they were inferior to Barca, but they were still a top side, and one of the best around. This is a side that over that period had players like Alonso, Casillas, Ramos, Ozil, Benzema, Di Maria and numerous others. Not as good as Barca, but hardly a poor side at all.

 

[Cal?]

I would like Ronaldo to take on players and try to make something happen rather than playing simple pass and just shooting. I think we can all agree that the Ronaldo from United was much more exciting to see than the present Ronaldo. It's not like he lost pace or stamina, but he just seems to be interested in scoring goals and not much else. Rest of his overall game has actually regressed over last couple of seasons. Ronaldo has total 6 attempts to tackle in the league in 20 games. You would expect more from a physically fit player like him.

Goalscoring is ultimately the be all and end all for football matches.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Mascherano and the defence took them to the WC final. Messi did not score a single goal in the knockout stage and Argentina generally relied on their defence to bore their way to the final.

Portugal probably wouldn't have qualified for 2014 if Ronaldo didn't play in that playoff where he and Zlatan tried to show the world that football matches can be played by just 2 players.

You mean that play off match where Ronaldo's amateur team mates put him right through on goal multiple times?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Those backing Ronaldo bringing up the World Cup is silly. He was shocking at the World Cup. He also missed lots of chances didn't he if I remember correctly? If that was the case, his team mates have a bigger case for blaming him than the other way round. Could be wrong shout the chances bit.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Goalscoring is ultimately the be all and end all for football matches.

You just told us Argentina's defence got them to the WC final.

 

[Cheesy]

Mascherano and the defence took them to the WC final. Messi did not score a single goal in the knockout stage and Argentina generally relied on their defence to bore their way to the final.

Portugal probably wouldn't have qualified for 2014 if Ronaldo didn't play in that playoff where he and Zlatan tried to show the world that football matches can be played by just 2 players.

But Messi still had a good tournament overall, didn't he? There's no denying that. And your argument is kind of derailed by the fact that Ronaldo didn't score any goals in the 2006 knockout stages either. You can't criticise Messi for not scoring, but excuse Ronaldo for...the exact same thing!

And fair enough on the second point, but I did say that Portugal would have a decent chance of qualifying for tournaments, not that they would for definite. Getting to a playoff certainly constitutes having a decent chance.

 

[Cal?]

He's never turned a decent side into an extraordinary one. And Portugal are more than decent, the way you and Cal? try to pretend they're level with the Faroe Islands is hilarious

I said they'd struggle to qualify for the WC, and they'd most likely have lost to Sweden in the playoff if Ronaldo didn't play, which part of that do you disagree with?

When did I say level with Faroe Islands?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Goalscoring is ultimately the be all and end all for football matches.

And the guy setting up the goal can be more important than the one scoring it.

You should stop watching football and just read the final scores.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Group stage is no part of the WC, and scoring goals is the only way of contributing in offense apparently.

 

[Cheesy]

Exactly the point I was proving to Cal? .

If you're honestly that blinded to say Messi's WC didn't match Ronaldo's (let alone best it), then there's no point, right?

He's just criticised Messi for not scoring in the 2014 WC knockout stages, despite the fact that Ronaldo didn't do so in 2006, so yeah, a bit biased to say the least.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I said they'd struggle to qualify for the WC, and they'd most likely have lost to Sweden in the playoff if Ronaldo didn't play, which part of that do you disagree with?

When did I say level with Faroe Islands?

semantics. The point was you're trying to make Portugal sound a lot worse than they are as a means to big up your boy.

And my issue was with your "football can be played between two players", even though Ronaldo's midfield were the ones ping the balls through for him to go clean in on the keeper.

 

[Vialli_92]

Mascherano and the defence took them to the WC final. Messi did not score a single goal in the knockout stage and Argentina generally relied on their defence to bore their way to the final.

Portugal probably wouldn't have qualified for 2014 if Ronaldo didn't play in that playoff where he and Zlatan tried to show the world that football matches can be played by just 2 players.

So because he didn't score a goal in the knockouts it means he played bad? I believe he ran passed about 3 defenders to set up Di Maria for the winner against Switzerland. Oh but sorry only goals count now in Cal's argument obviously putting a chance on a silver platter for Di Maria is not nearly as important.

Who should have won pott then? The fact is it was close between all the players and any one of them could have taken it. It just happened to be Messi that got the vote. There was no real standout player that was clearly above any of the candidates for the award i believe? Some people say James some people say Messi some people say Neuer.

 

[Cal?]

But Messi still had a good tournament overall, didn't he? There's no denying that. And your argument is kind of derailed by the fact that Ronaldo didn't score any goals in the 2006 knockout stages either. You can't criticise Messi for not scoring, but excuse Ronaldo for...the exact same thing!

And fair enough on the second point, but I did say that Portugal would have a decent chance of qualifying for tournaments, not that they would for definite. Getting to a playoff certainly constitutes having a decent chance.

I said they'd struggle to qualify, not that they don't have a chance of qualifying.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

every 6th post in this thead is cal?'s

 

[Cal?]

So because he didn't score a goal in the knockouts it means he played bad? I believe he ran passed about 3 defenders to set up Di Maria for the winner against Switzerland. Oh but sorry only goals count now in Cal's argument obviously putting a chance on a silver platter for Di Maria is not nearly as important.

Who should have won pott then? The fact is it was close between all the players and any one of them could have taken it. It just happened to be Messi that got the vote. There was no real standout player that was clearly above any of the candidates for the award i believe? Some people say James some people say Messi some people say Neuer.

Okay, I'll give you the "assist" against Switzerland, doesn't change the fact that he did very little in 4 knockout stage matches.

Anyway, it wasn't my intention to talk about WC 2014. Messi has a better tournament than Ronaldo in that one, even Ronaldo's mum will agree.

POTT, James or a number of German players.

 

[Cheesy]

Okay, I'll give you the "assist" against Switzerland, doesn't change the fact that he did very little in 4 knockout stage matches.

Anyway, it wasn't my intention to talk about WC 2014. Messi has a better tournament than Ronaldo in that one, even Ronaldo's mum will agree.

POTT, James or a number of German players.

Your argument was that Messi hasn't had a WC that matched up to Ronaldo. His 2014 tournament easily matched up to Ronaldo's in 2006.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Okay, I'll give you the "assist" against Switzerland, doesn't change the fact that he did very little in 4 knockout stage matches.

Anyway, it wasn't my intention to talk about WC 2014. Messi has a better tournament than Ronaldo in that one, even Ronaldo's mum will agree.

POTT, James or a number of German players.

Not sure about that, I've seen Ronaldo's mum post on here and she appears to be as delusional as you