I am not comparing. Just saying that at-least since seventies, there hasn't been a better player in club level than Messi/Ronaldo.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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No, until today they have no left back, their goalkeeper was Subasic deputy, their Center midfielders aren't great. They have incredible attacking players, 1 very good right back and a handful of good center backs.
Edit: And the level of the managers, the same thing applies to Ronaldo, if he had Mourinho as national manager his international career would have been different.
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He won player of the tournament lmao is that seriously your argument? Thats why there was so much fuss about that afterwards right? He wasn't 1/10th of Robben at the WC or some germans.
erm. messi had a wonderfull copa america with tevez and riquelme, we lost the final against brazil
messi won the gold medal in the summer olimpics in a team that didnt concede a single goal
messi won the u 21 world cup with argentina
messi made us qualify first to the last world cup
messi is the second top scorer in argentina national team history
messi made it to the final game in brazil 2014
but keep on thinking that messi never performed "well" in his national team
whatever it takes to undermine him can be handy
Do other Argentines share your view as well? I'm genuinely curious. Messi's career at the NT level gets underrated or goes unnoticed IMO.
Player like Messi will probably have 3-4 opportunites to play in the World Cup at a good level, depending on when they were born in relation to World Cup. He was only 19 at 2006 World Cup and Pekerman still didn't trust him enough, he was very unlucky to have been managed by Maradona who basically misused every single player in that team in 2010. He got to the final with them in 2014, having been a standout performer for his NT and only missed out on the final win because of 114th minute Gotze goal to a superb Germany team that beat Brazil 7-1, no shame in that.
Absolutely horrible
He scored in all group stages games and his performances in the knockouts weren't even that bad, they were all about 7s. Absolutely horrible FFS, the same sort of performance from any other player would have been called good but because he'd set such high standards for him he's somehow managed to make people think he's terrible when he's actually good.yes. some maradona lovers claim he should have done more in the final game against germany, totally forgetting that we lost in over time against the same team that beat brazil 7-1
he scored four goals in seven games, i dont know what more he has to do.Absolutely horrible
Without 1 single forward playing up to their standards, bar Lavezzi maybe.
You need to score at least 2 goals in each of the World Cup game for your WC performance to be considered good.
Unless you're Ronaldo. In that case you only need to score a penalty against Iran.
Great info
There's only so much you can do when your partners up front are impotent, but great to hear they appreciate him.
You're on fire.
Horrible?
FFS. Out of all the words you could have used to downplay his "player of the tournament" award...you choose "horrible".
didnt know thatexactly, what messi needs to do to be GOAT, Ronaldo doesnt
Who promoted this mentalist?
Me saying he was horrible is as much true as you fanboys saying he was fantastic.
I'd like to think I'm not a Messi fanboy, purely because I look at posts by the likes of marcos and amol (no offence fellas) and can tell that's what a true, unashamed, mental Messi fanboy is and that's certainly not me (and I've rarely posted in here, either), but I can safely say that everything you've sad in here is a complete load of horseshite. Very smelly horseshite, too.
Nothing you say has any credibility, you've got a bad case of the verbal shits, and it's stinking the place out pretty bad.
Youth tournaments are irrelevant, as are the Olympics since a lot of great players aren't involved there. The Copa America is also a weak tournament compared to the Euros for example.
As I said, I don't rate his 2014 WC performance highly, others contributed as much or more than he did.
As for the topscorer story, well Rooney is one of the topscorers for England and his national team career hasn't been great, so that's not much of a factor either.
I'm not trying to belittle Messi, I just don't see anything close to the magic he's performing with Barcelona during his spells with the national team.
cant argue with that, if winning the u 21 world cup, the olimpics, doing it very good in the copa america and in the qualifying, scoring four goals in the world cup, giving magic assists are not enough then you are right, messi doesnt play well for argentina
A competition that has Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Colombia, five teams that made it through the groups at the last World Cup, is anything but weak. Not like Messi had the chance to impress at Euros either.
Who apart from Mascherano contributed as much or more than Messi's 4 goals at the WC?
You always make me laugh
To be fair, I'm glad @Cal? has got SOMEBODY arguing his corner now too. It makes this a little more entertaining.
While this being true, it doesn't mean Messi hasn't done well for Argentina either. His club performances are considered among the best ever performed by a player in the history so naturally his national team performances won't be of the same level, they're still very good though.
Some Portugal fans should really give us more detailed information about how Ronaldo truly performs for them (@Arruda ?) because the truth is, he is average with them.
I'm almost tempted to say he's worse than Cal?
Not yet but he's started off with a bang.
He's "just" Ronaldo. Expectations set on him are too high. With scarcer service and much poorer players upfront with him his impact diminishes substantially, as he's incapable of running matches on his own, and he doesn't create something out of nothing that often. We can only see Real's Ronaldo on occasion, like against Sweden, because rarely the team will provide him that sort of chances (which weren't easy chances at all, it must be said). I think his productivity is perfectly acceptable given the circumstances. He's similar to what he looks when Real plays poorly, it's just that Portugal plays poorly a lot more often.
I don't see that much of Messi for Argentina so my sample is small and limited to the World Cup, but from what I saw I think he influences the team far more than Ronaldo. I think that's expectable because Messi is a better and more complete player by a comfortable distance, in my opinion at least. They both score and assist less than at club level, but Messi adds something beyond that which Ronaldo just can't do.
I have more problems with Ronaldo's attitude and demeanour than with his productivity. He's obviously not "captain material". The (admittedly subjective) impression I have is that he somehow blames his national team-mates for not being as good as his club team-mates. When things aren't going well he seems to pout instead of trying to lift the team's spirit and motivate them.
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IMO Ronaldo is a genius. Besides scoring excellent goals, he is the best poacher i have ever seen
and to say that Ronaldo is a "poacher" doesnt belittles him
to be a poacher you must be very intelligent to anticipate where the ball is going to go and what's the best position for you to be
the other day, against juventus, he scored a goal that even my dead grand grand nanny could have score
but for that, she needed to understand where was possible for Carvajal -who assisted him- to send the ball. That requires a lot of intelligence.
To score a sitter may be luck, you were at the right place at the right time, to score 30 a year is an art
you have to understand your teamates, the rival, and foresee where is more likely the ball to go so you will be confortable enough to score
many posters are saying that he isnt playing as good as he was with us and that he decided to be "all about goals"
well, that may be right, but football is "all about goals" and he has became a master on what he can do best
and to say that Ronaldo is a "poacher" doesnt belittles him
to be a poacher you must be very intelligent to anticipate where the ball is going to go and what's the best position for you to be
the other day, against juventus, he scored a goal that even my dead grand grand nanny could have score
but for that, she needed to understand where was possible for Carvajal -who assisted him- to send the ball. That requires a lot of intelligence.
To score a sitter may be luck, you were at the right place at the right time, to score 30 a year is an art
you have to understand your teamates, the rival, and foresee where is more likely the ball to go so you will be confortable enough to score
many posters are saying that he isnt playing as good as he was with us and that he decided to be "all about goals"
well, that may be right, but football is "all about goals" and he has became a master on what he can do best
That's nonsense, as evidenced by his performance against Sweden that you noted. He played injured for his country in the World Cup too. What more can you want?
He's a preening, pompous, arrogant ***, but he's carried Madrid and United on his shoulders when his teammates have been playing poorly many times.
I agree with everything in this post.
The game against Sweden was more of an aberration than the norm, seeing that he averages less than half a goal per game for his country (52 goals in 119 games), and considering Portugal finished behind Russia in the WC qualifications in the same year, and bowed out in the group stages of the WC (by finishing below the US) in the next year.
He has done well for Portugal before and had good tournaments at Euro 2004, 2012 and World Cup 2006, getting into the team of the tournament at both Euro 2004 and 2012 and finished runner-up for young player of the tournament at World Cup 2006 (and was in the lead for the award until his antics vs England as behaviour is taken into account for the award). Overall he has had a good international career.
Nobody is saying he has a 'horrible' international career. Comparatively though, Messi's is still much better imo.
Compared to a competition that has Spain, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal in it, I'd say it's weak.
With Argentina, as I said I thought di Maria had a decent tournament, but I'll put him aside for a minute since some disagree with that. Rojo and Garay performed well at the back, Lavezzi did well too. I just don't see Messi really standing out from that team.
Just to clarify this for some slow ones in here: I'm not here to claim Ronaldo is better than Messi or that Messi isn't possibly the best player in the world right now. I just think all these claims of him being the best ever and not entirely justified since he also has flaws in his career. The same goes for Ronaldo for that matter.
I asked the question to Arruda because apparently Messi did nothing at an international level. They're both great players, much better at their clubs than for their national teams. One is simply better than the other.
If you're talking about me, I'm not taking any corner. I don't give enough of a f*** to debate who's better between the two. I'm just here because I don't see either of them being as good as they're sometimes hyped to be. I think with the emergence of social media and video availability, players in today's era are being praised a lot more than years ago. I just don't see what Messi or Ronaldo so clearly hold over the likes of Zidane and the Brazilian Ronaldo for example.
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