Wonder if all the "Messi is 40%(or what it was) of Barcelona's revenues"-talk will turn out to be wrong as well, i doubt they will lose nearly as much as predicted, but we will find out later.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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Aye, a player as lazy as current Messi out of form would kill any side. Barca certainly couldn’t afford to carry him so yeah, was essential for their season that he finally got his arse into gear.
Post Messi they got Spotify signed on for 70m euros a season so safe to say that percentage was utter bollocks, they’ll likely increase revenue without him.
Barça was a massive club before him and will continue to be, they are so much more than one player, as proven post Maradona, post Rivaldo and post Ronaldinho. Yet it didn’t stop the utter drivel being spouted by many.
It was just another in a long line of bullshit that some bizarre fans of Messi were desperate to cling to; similar to bloke on here trying to pretend that individual awards are the things all young players dream about rather than actually winning the big trophies. Thankfully, those of us with a brain, one not clouded by some teary eyed vision of Messi or Ronaldo can see through the bullshit.
they didn't pass the Champions group stage in case you've forgotten and they brought good players. Some Ronaldo fans are sad people
He just statpadded against minnows, Andorra, Faroe, Armenia, Lithuania etc playing many games more than the next guy. Even Lukaku has done better than Ronaldo not to mention Muller with 62 goals in 68 games where there were no such minnows and many others. Even Ali Daei has a better goal per game ratio. Ronaldo's record against top sides speak for itself. What context are you talking about? Nobody really cares about such records that all of a sudden became "important" when Ronaldo was about to break playing many more games against minnows many of which did not exist until 1990s as a football nation
Messi also has the record for the most goals by a South American above Pele with NT, but unlike you, I do not even mention that as Pele played many less games than Messi therefore it would be ridiculous to suggest this as something very special.You are the one who should put things, context. 9 goals for Platini in 5 games vs Ronaldo in 20 games more, football world does not even talk about this as something special, it is crazy how much you are trying to hype these things while ignoring or seeing them equivalent with Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes where only the top players can compete and dream to win just because Ronaldo became the record holder of these "most goal scored" last year. Imagine thinking Ballon D'or having less international media coverage than "most goals scored" records held by Ali Daei for many years.
Seeing the supposed "greatest goal scorer" in the top leagues with him winning a single league top goal scorer award in 7 years shows how difficult it has been for him, the guy won 3 Pichichis in 9 years and only 1 top goal scorer award in 7 years. But, you can continue believing statdpadding against Lux type of teams to break the record playing significantly more games is more impressive than Pichichis, Golden Shoes records etc. Nobody buys that.. Messi has the record no of Golden Shoes, Pichichis, top league scorer awards, La Liga most goals in European leagues competing against real stars in proper leagues.
People talk about Messi's legendary 91 goals year way more often than this total goals BS. This alone is way more impressive than any of the records you listed above. Not to mention Ronaldo has "0" international best player awards whereas Messi 5, no playmaker awards etc. but obviously this kind of records does not matter more than Ali Daei's total no of goals record..
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I'm a fan of both. I worship neither.
Personally prefer Maradona to both.
Do carry on though. If you somehow think getting one stage further in the CL last season only to get humiliated 5-2 by PSG was a ”better Barca” than the current one, more fool you. And the new players…. They could only buy them because they sold the fecking albatross around their necks, that's the entire point, they are much better off as a team and as a club, without him.
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feck me you have some sad convos in life.
Well its clear you are very heavily biased towards Messi and against Ronaldo. The difference is, maybe you didn't even realise, is that I have no problem acknowledge any of Messi achievements, but it seems you have big problem acknowleding any of Ronaldo achievements at all, and find it difficult to apply same standard on Ronaldo to everyone else. The bias in your head has overwhelmingly clouded any proper judgement you could have made.He just statpadded against minnows, Andorra, Faroe, Armenia, Lithuania etc playing many games more than the next guy. Even Lukaku has done better than Ronaldo not to mention Muller with 62 goals in 68 games where there were no such minnows and many others. Even Ali Daei has a better goal per game ratio. Ronaldo's record against top sides speak for itself. What context are you talking about? Nobody really cares about such records that all of a sudden became "important" when Ronaldo was about to break playing many more games against minnows many of which did not exist until 1990s as a football nation
You are the one who should put things, context. 9 goals for Platini in 5 games vs Ronaldo in 20 games more, football world does not even talk about this as something special, it is crazy how much you are trying to hype these things while ignoring or seeing them equivalent with Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes where only the top players can compete and dream to win just because Ronaldo became the record holder of these "most goal scored" last year. Imagine thinking Ballon D'or having less international media coverage than "most goals scored" records held by Ali Daei for many years.
Seeing the supposed "greatest goal scorer" in the top leagues with him winning a single league top goal scorer award in 7 years shows how difficult it has been for him, the guy won 3 Pichichis in 9 years and only 1 top goal scorer award in 7 years. But, you can continue believing statdpadding against Lux type of teams to break the record playing significantly more games is more impressive than Pichichis, Golden Shoes records etc. Nobody buys that.. Messi has the record no of Golden Shoes, Pichichis, top league scorer awards, La Liga most goals in European leagues competing against real stars in proper leagues.
People talk about Messi's legendary 91 goals year way more often than this total goals BS. This alone is way more impressive than any of the records you listed above. Not to mention Ronaldo has "0" international best player awards whereas Messi 5, no playmaker awards etc. but obviously this kind of records does not matter more than Ali Daei's total no of goals record..
Anyway, let's agree to disagree as this discussion is going nowhere..
Not long ago Ronaldo scored against likes of France and Germany and become top scorer in Euro 20, while last WC he scored hat trick against Spain too. Of course those goals are all conveniently erased from your memory, you could only remember those goals agains minors, where everyone including Messi had stat-pad against anyway. And the plain truth is, comparatively speaking, not only Ronaldo has more international goals than everyone, he has also more goals against top 10 and top 20 national teams than anyone else too. But of course it doesn't matter to you, because its simply not acceptable in your mind, and in you mind, Ronaldo only scored against the minors.
And just give you an idea, here's the breakdown of Ronaldo goals against top 10 and top 20 international opponents, as compared to other top goalscorer under the same context:
Ronaldo (115 goals)
7 vs Sweden (current rank 11th, highest rank 2nd)
4 vs Netherland (current rank 10th, highest rank 1st)
3 vs Belgium (current rank 1st, highest rank 1st)
3 vs Spain (current rank 7th, highest rank 1st)
3 vs Denmark (current rank 9th, highest rank 3rd)
3 vs Switzerland (current rank 14th, highest rank 3rd)
2 vs France (current rank 3rd, highest rank 1st)
1 vs Argentina (current rank 4th, highest rank 1st)
1 vs Croatia (current rank 15h, highest rank 3rd)
1 vs Germany (current rank 11th, highest rank 1st)
1 vs Wales (current rank 20th, highest rank 8th)
Ronaldo scored total 29 goals against top 20 opponents, 16 goals against top 10 opponents.
Messi (80 goals)
6 vs Uruguay (currently rank 16th, highest rank 2nd)
5 vs Brazil (currently rank 4th, highest rank 1st)
3 vs Columbia (current rank 19th, highest rank 3rd)
3 vs Mexico (current rank 12rh, highest rank 4th)
3 vs Switzerland (current rank 14th, highest rank 3rd)
2 vs Croatia (current rank 15th, highest rank 3rd)
2 vs Spain (current rank 7th, highest rank 1st)
1 vs France (current rank 3rd, highest rank 1st)
1 vs Germany (current rank 11th, highest rank 1st)
1 vs Portugal (current rank 8th, highest rank 2nd)
1 vs US (current rank 13th, highest rank 4th)
Messi scored total 28 goals against top 20 opponents, 9 goals against top 10 opponents.
Neymar (70 goals)
5 vs US
4 vs Columbia
3 vs Argentina
3 vs Croatia
3 vs Uruguay
2 vs Mexico
1 vs France
1 vs Germany
1 vs Italy
1 vs Portugal
1 vs Spain
Neymar scored total 25 goals against top 20 opponents, 8 goals against top 10 opponents.
Lukaku (68 goals)
3 vs Croatia
3 vs Switzerland
2 vs Mexico
2 vs Denmark
1 vs Netherland
1 vs Sweden
1 vs US
1 vs Portugal
1 vs England
1 vs Wales
1 vs Italy
1 vs France
Lukaku scored total 18 goals against top 20 opponents, 7 goals against top 10 opponents.
Lewandowksi (74 goals)
3 vs Denmark
2 vs Germany
1 vs Portugal
1 vs Spain
Lewandowksi scored total 7 goals against top 20 opponents, 7 goals agains top 10 opponents.
I mean, let's just be fair.
Most international goals: Ronaldo (115)
Most international goals against top 20 opponents: Ronaldo (29)
Most international goals against top 10 opponents: Ronaldo (16)
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Don't take much notice, I've a mate who supports juve and they're all acting like jealous exes when it comes to ronaldo and united atmfeck me you have some sad convos in life.
Messi said it hurt him when Ronaldo won his fifth ballon d'or: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...istiano-ronaldos-5th-ballon-dor-hurt-a-littleRonaldo disagrees unfortunately, sad factos.. huge mental gymnastics there disregarding the value of these awards
Ronaldo on Ballon D’or.. "Messi's in the history of football - but I think I have to have six or seven or eight to be above him," said Ronaldo on ITV's Cristiano Ronaldo Meets Piers Morgan. "I'd love it, I think I deserve it."
www.bbc.com/sport/football/49736296
Ronaldo on Golden Shoe " "I really love this award. It is the best award out there for me. Others can pick you as the best player, but an attacker's job is to make goals and I love that. I cannot deny that I love scoring goals."
https://www.goal.com/en/news/722/la...onaldo-golden-shoe-better-than-the-ballon-dor
And of course Ronaldo likes to win awards, months ago he won his third Fifa the best award because last year he broke the record of most international goals, while Messi has won the best fifa award only one time.
And this year Ronaldo is gonna win his fourth Fifa the best award because he became the top scorer in the history of football.
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You’re far from objective, Red.. your only criteria for records is "total number of goals" which is laughable..
Imagine creating a major category called records which is actually “the total number of goals scored” in god knows how many more games and calling yourself objective because the title of the category is “records”.. A carefully designed category brought to you by Ronaldo fans so that he can be an equal part of the conversation
Even a category called “goal scoring records” would be more inclusive than your definition of so called “records” that prevents not only the top playmakers but many top strikers from being a part of the “records” category as obviously even Golden shoes, league top scorer awards etc does not matter in the definition of your “records” category. Imagine Ali Daei holding that record until last year and thinking that is actually a bigger achievement than Zidane, Van Basten, Cruyff, Beckenbauers, Platinis, R9s, Henry winning Ballon D’ors or Golden Shoes, WC MVP awards etc. Strong mental gymnastics here.
If you really care about being objective, why don’t you create another separate category called playmaking as many of the greatest players this game are known for their playmaking abilities like Maradona, Messi, Cruyff, Platini and not for goal scoring (other than Messi)? Oh, no, you can’t because there is zero chance Ronaldo can make it to this group so let’s ignore this. But, it is all ok to create a very specific “total number of goals scored” category, a category that will heavily favor strikers isolating all these playmaking stars to fit your narrative.. this looks too desperate tbh. If shown, those playmakers would probably laugh at this so called objective “records” category and share with you how jealous they were of Bican and Daei all this time.
An objective person can easily do a much better job, create a “Records” category that represents Ballon D’ors or Golden Shoes, the most important individual awards for the football world won by R9s, Zidanes, Cruyffs, Platinis, Kakas, Baggios, Van Bastens, Beckenbauers etc. not by Ali Daeis, Bicans. Who would object to that? That definition of records would be 100 times more objective than your so called “records” category as there is no other individual award in the football world that carries more weight than Ballon D’or where only the top players regardless of whether they are strikers, defenders, playmakers or wingers can win and “total number of goals” scored is not the only criteria. But, no, Ballon D’or records should also be avoided at all costs obviously, the No.1 award individual award in the football world as Ronaldo is behind.
For the NT, Ronaldo could not even win a single best player award in 4 WCs + 5 ECs vs Messi with WC, Copa, WC, U-20 WC best player awards. Even Modric, Zagorakis, Forlan won a key award in those tournaments, that’s embarrassing but obviously beating Ali Daei’s record statpadding against European minnows trumps them all as if there is nothing else in football other than “total number of goals”.
Below is key part of Ronaldo’s unbelievable record..
Ronaldo vs WC winning nations (Germany, Italy, France, Spain, England, Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil)
7 goals in 30 games (0.23 per games) and that includes 3 penalties..
Suker against WC winning teams: 8 goals in 14 games
Messi against WC winning teams: 15 goals in 33 games
Neymar against WC winning teams: 9 goals in 20 games
I mean let's just be fair
Messi:
Most Ballon D’ors – a record
Most Golden Shoes – a record
Most Pichichis – a record
Most IFFHS Best Playmaker awards – a record
Most best player awards in international tournaments – a record
The only player with MVP award in every single NT tournament – a record
Playmaker of the Decade
Most goals in a calendar year – a record
Most assists in a calendar year – a record
Most G+A season/years – a record
Etc. etc. etc.
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I’m sure it hurt Ronaldo just as much for Messi to win his 7th, as Ronaldo famously once said individual trophies mean more. Not that I agree with Ronaldo there but it definitely has to sting for him knowing he’ll never catch that.Messi said it hurt him when Ronaldo won his fifth ballon d'or: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...istiano-ronaldos-5th-ballon-dor-hurt-a-little
And of course Ronaldo likes to win awards, months ago he won his third Fifa the best award because last year he broke the record of most international goals, while Messi has won the best fifa award only one time.
And this year Ronaldo is gonna win his fourth Fifa the best award because he became the top scorer in the history of football.
Are they? Juve fans seem happy with his replacement and may end up finishing even higher on the table this season than last.
Apart from his hattrick against spurs i dont der what there is to be jealous about.
This season Barcelona lost 0-3 against Bayern, last year with Messi they lost 2-8 against Bayern, so it's clear that Messi was holding the team back, and this season Barcelona will finish second, last year with Messi they finished int he third position, so as you can see Barcelona improved without Messi. In fact most of Barcelona fans say the club did the right thing by getting rid of Messi.
Messi said that it hurt him when Ronaldo won his fifth ballon d'or, that means Messi wants to have more awards than him, so you can bet it hurt Messi to see Ronaldo winning his third Fifa the best award months ago, because Messi has won the Fifa the best award only one time.
And Messi said a lot of times that he wanted to be the top scorer, so as much as people say he's a playmaker it's sure as hell that he worries a lot about scoring goals. In April of 2018 Ronaldo almost caught Messi in goals, and Messi played against Leganes and gave his all to score goals even though Barcelona had already won la liga, that game against Leganes was three fays before the second leg against Roma. A lot Barcelona fans said Messi shouldn't have played that game against Leganes, and he should have rested for the Roma game, but Messi played anyways because he wanted to score goals, he didn't want Ronaldo to catch him.
If you watched his games with Barcelona, even when they were winning 5-0 with four goals of Messi, he still tried to scored his fifth goal, he didn't relax, so you can bet it hurt Messi to see Ronaldo becoming the top scorer of football history, top scorer of the Champions League and breaking the record of most international goals. It definitely has to sting for Messi knowing he'll never catch those records of goals that Ronaldo possesses.
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Why was Ronaldo absent today? He's still injured?
amazing logic
This season Barca could not get beyond the group stage in CL, last season they did with Messi without Xavi.
This season Barca is 12 points behind Real, last season, they were a proper title contender without Xavi..
This season Barca got eliminated in Copa Del Rey in the 2nd round, last season they won it with Messi the finals MVP without Xavi..
using your unique logic below))
This season, United got thrashed at OT 0-5 against Liverpool and lost to Middlesbrough in FA Cup, last season they eliminated Liverpool in FA Cup, so Ronaldo destroyed United..
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Ronaldo was invisible today and Portugal still got 3 goals. The Portuguese team is much better than people give them credit for.
That award has only been around since 2016 and doesn't carry the prestige of the Ballon D'or. Messi has been a playmaker and a goalscorer in general for some years now. At Barca and Argentina he was still expected to score the goals and create the chances. At PSG if you watch his highligts it's clear to see he's role is mainly to feed Mpabbe. It doesn't mean that his goalrecored isn't terrible though.
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Goals record isn’t my only criteria though, as I’ve already give credits to Messi “most Ballon D’ors”, “most Golden Shoes” and of course “most goals in year”.You’re far from objective, Red.. your only criteria for records is "total number of goals" which is laughable..
Imagine creating a major category called records which is actually “the total number of goals scored” in god knows how many more games and calling yourself objective because the title of the category is “records”.. A carefully designed category brought to you by Ronaldo fans so that he can be an equal part of the conversation
Even a category called “goal scoring records” would be more inclusive than your definition of so called “records” that prevents not only the top playmakers but many top strikers from being a part of the “records” category as obviously even Golden shoes, league top scorer awards etc does not matter in the definition of your “records” category. Imagine Ali Daei holding that record until last year and thinking that is actually a bigger achievement than Zidane, Van Basten, Cruyff, Beckenbauers, Platinis, R9s, Henry winning Ballon D’ors or Golden Shoes, WC MVP awards etc. Strong mental gymnastics here.
If you really care about being objective, why don’t you create another separate category called playmaking as many of the greatest players this game are known for their playmaking abilities like Maradona, Messi, Cruyff, Platini and not for goal scoring (other than Messi)? Oh, no, you can’t because there is zero chance Ronaldo can make it to this group so let’s ignore this. But, it is all ok to create a very specific “total number of goals scored” category, a category that will heavily favor strikers isolating all these playmaking stars to fit your narrative.. this looks too desperate tbh. If shown, those playmakers would probably laugh at this so called objective “records” category and share with you how jealous they were of Bican and Daei all this time.
An objective person can easily do a much better job, create a “Records” category that represents Ballon D’ors or Golden Shoes, the most important individual awards for the football world won by R9s, Zidanes, Cruyffs, Platinis, Kakas, Baggios, Van Bastens, Beckenbauers etc. not by Ali Daeis, Bicans. Who would object to that? That definition of records would be 100 times more objective than your so called “records” category as there is no other individual award in the football world that carries more weight than Ballon D’or where only the top players regardless of whether they are strikers, defenders, playmakers or wingers can win and “total number of goals” scored is not the only criteria. But, no, Ballon D’or records should also be avoided at all costs obviously, the No.1 award individual award in the football world as Ronaldo is behind.
For the NT, Ronaldo could not even win a single best player award in 4 WCs + 5 ECs vs Messi with WC, Copa, WC, U-20 WC best player awards. Even Modric, Zagorakis, Forlan won a key award in those tournaments, that’s embarrassing but obviously beating Ali Daei’s record statpadding against European minnows trumps them all as if there is nothing else in football other than “total number of goals”.
Below is key part of Ronaldo’s unbelievable record..
Ronaldo vs WC winning nations (Germany, Italy, France, Spain, England, Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil)
7 goals in 30 games (0.23 per games) and that includes 3 penalties..
Suker against WC winning teams: 8 goals in 14 games
Messi against WC winning teams: 15 goals in 33 games
Neymar against WC winning teams: 9 goals in 20 games
I mean let's just be fair
Messi:
Most Ballon D’ors – a record
Most Golden Shoes – a record
Most Pichichis – a record
Most IFFHS Best Playmaker awards – a record
Most best player awards in international tournaments – a record
The only player with MVP award in every single NT tournament – a record
Playmaker of the Decade
Most goals in a calendar year – a record
Most assists in a calendar year – a record
Most G+A season/years – a record
Etc. etc. etc.
Other records you’ve listed above, such as most playmaker awards, most la liga top goalscorer, most mvp award, most IFFHS awards etc are what traditionally/commonly regarded as “less significance records” as they lack public interest/discussion over the years. Again as I’ve said, assist records are interesting one to add, but they lack history/official record from 15-20 years prior to have any meaningful comparison with past greats.
Sure they are all valid records, but as I’ve said, both Messi and Ronaldo have over 100 of those, our discussion should therefore only focus on the most significance ones.
Also, stats on scoring against WC winning nations are quite trivial stats, their active years are within past 10-15 years, why would those WC winners from 30-90 years ago would have anything to do with their career at all? If only count WC winners over past 1 or 2 decade, maybe it would still make more sense, but it still give a very limited picture as we only have very few nations there to compare. Using the current ranking system would be far more accurate and contextually meaningful.
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Yeah, definitely, the world has been talking about Ali Daei's record as the "most significant award" and not MVP tournament awards, Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes. There is not even a single thread about the "most goals scored" record in this forum, it is only considered a major thing in your own world & probably in Portugal, nobody cares about this, but you can keep on thinking "total goals scored" as the major thing in the football world whereas the rest of the world, media & players just does not care and closely follow Ballon D'ors, golden shoes.
I know, you know, everybody knows here that had Ronaldo had the lead in Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes as the record holder, had he won WC MVP awards, you would be the first one emphasizing those and create categories for each of those for Ronaldo.. Imagine Ronaldo having lead in those and Messi only on "total goals scored" playing tons of more games, and I am sure you will design the records category the same way.. Imagine Ronaldo being a GOAT level playmaker like Maradona, Messi, Cruyff, I am sure you will exclude a category with the focus on playmaking as you are doing now..
Gerd Muller scored 68 goals in 62 games in an era where there were no Luxembourg, Andorra, San Marino, Lithuania, Armenia, Latvia, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Azerbaijan, many of which are Ronaldo's favorite opponents (44 goals in 25 games). These numbers obviously are more important than his poor record against WC winning teams.
Remove these from the equation for a fair comparison with Muller and many others, he would have a mere 71 goals in 160 games vs Muller in 68 goals in 62 games, 3 more goals than Muller playing 98 more games, that's why nobody cares other than "some" Ronaldo fans, that's also why as a Messi fan, I do not care about Messi breaking Pele's record playing many more games than Pele, that's exactly why nobody made a big fuss about that Messi record.
Even the great Eusebio said below about Ronaldo's statpadding..
" "Now, after all these years, someone else scores (that many goals) but obviously that happens because today it is easier to play some of these teams. I never got to play against Liechtenstein or Azerbaijan,"
https://www.eurosport.com/football/...is-portugal-s-greatest_sto3954820/story.shtml
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Who had the récord before Ronaldo?
The 2nd greatest ever in the football world, the great Ali Daei..
Previous one is another great, this time from Malaysia, Mokhtar Dahari.. just looked it up to see where he is from and when exactly he played football
Presumably you see the difference in the two situations, though. Or are you actually saying that Ronaldo is an Ali Daei level player?The 2nd greatest ever in the football world, the great Ali Daei..
Previous one is another great, this time from Malaysia, Mokhtar Dahari.. just looked it up to see where he is from and when exactly he played football
The 2nd greatest ever in the football world, the great Ali Daei..
Previous one is another great, this time from Malaysia, Mokhtar Dahari.. just looked it up to see where he is from and when exactly he played football
I feel your pain every time he still performs at the highest level, while Messi is busy being a grandfather.
yes, like once every three months
if Ronaldo fans weren't that heavy I wouldn't give a shlte about his performances.
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Ronaldo has only scored in two different matches in all of 2022, he’s been fairly shocking. Messi has the most assists in the top 5 leagues in 2022, but he too has been pretty bad.
saying Ronaldo “still performs” at the highest level is absolute rubbish. His worst matches this season have been worse than Messi’s.
Messi fans and their man of the match or man of the tournament awards.
Imagine thinking football should be judged by judges like gymnastics or diving.As for your Gerd Muller point, let's not pretend there were no minnow footballing countries back then, 9 of his goals came in 2 matches against Albania and Cyprus in the last 60s, are those sides honestly better than half those you named in your dig at Ronaldo?
Ronaldo has never ever played against San Marino or Belarus, so the only reason you included those is just to make a cheap point.
of course a cheap point for Ronaldo fans, truth hurts, imagine being proud of Ronaldo scoring 3 more goals than Muller playing 98 more games when those minnows, farmer teams that Muller never had a chance to play against are excluded, displays his greatnessMessi fans and their man of the match or man of the tournament awards.
As for your Gerd Muller point, let's not pretend there were no minnow footballing countries back then, 9 of his goals came in 2 matches against Albania and Cyprus in the last 60s, are those sides honestly better than half those you named in your dig at Ronaldo?
Ronaldo has never ever played against San Marino or Belarus, so the only reason you included those is just to make a cheap point.
Yes, those MVP awards won by Zidane, Messi, Modric, R9, Romario, Maradona where Ronaldo could win "0" in a total of 4 WC + 5 EC, I would hate these with passion as well if I were a Ronaldo fan, also completely ignore Ronaldo's personal favorites Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, league top scorer awards as well..
So, Ronaldo did never play against San Marino or Belarus, wow, big deal, definitely helps his case against Muller, also forgot to add Liechtenstein)) Ronaldo also played against Cyprus + Albania. Imagine thinking playing 28 games against Cyprus, Albania, Lux. Faroe, Latvia, Lithuania, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Lichtenstein etc. & scoring 48 goals is the same as Gerd Muller playing 4 games against Albania+Cyprus and scoring 9 goals, mental gymnastics strong there..
One more thing:
Gerd Muller against France/Italy/England: 7 goals in 5 games, scored at least a goal in every single one of them..
Ronaldo against France/Italy/England/Spain/Germany/Brazil/Argentina/Uruguay 7 goals (including 3 penalties) in 30 games, was scoreless in 26 of these 30 games.
As the great Eusebio rightly said (probably another cheap point for you):
"The comparisons make me sad. It's easier now. I never played against Liechtenstein and Azerbaijan".
"It's wrong. There is no comparison. I scored my 41 goals in 60 games. It's easier now because you play more games against weak teams."
https://www.marca.com/2013/09/11/en/football/international_football/1378917585.html
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Hazard was a different player in the PL.
Does him finding life hard in La Liga not bring down people's rating of him?
Coutinho at Liverpool vs at Barcelona.
Even staying in the same country but changing the team you play for can bring a more accurate representation or rating of the player and his ability.
Greizmann at atheltico (and everyone crying over him) vs his performances for Barcelona
Torres for Liverpool vs Chelsea
Shevchenko for Milan Vs Chelsea
Veron at United
Falcao
Higuain
Kagawa
Forlan
Morientes
So so so many players get more accurately valued after playing outside their comfort zone of a club.
Just like the players above, Messi has been more accurately viewed and seen after playing outside of one of the most comfortable and single style of a football club ever.
Does him finding life hard in La Liga not bring down people's rating of him?
Coutinho at Liverpool vs at Barcelona.
Even staying in the same country but changing the team you play for can bring a more accurate representation or rating of the player and his ability.
Greizmann at atheltico (and everyone crying over him) vs his performances for Barcelona
Torres for Liverpool vs Chelsea
Shevchenko for Milan Vs Chelsea
Veron at United
Falcao
Higuain
Kagawa
Forlan
Morientes
So so so many players get more accurately valued after playing outside their comfort zone of a club.
Just like the players above, Messi has been more accurately viewed and seen after playing outside of one of the most comfortable and single style of a football club ever.
Also Eusebio scored two more World Cup goals than Ronaldo in 11 fewer games.
no, keep trying.
Oh those MVP awards the likes of Zagorakis, Donnarumma, Forlán, Schillaci has also won.of course a cheap point for Ronaldo fans, truth hurts, imagine being proud of Ronaldo scoring 3 more goals than Muller playing 98 more games when those minnows, farmer teams that Muller never had a chance to play against are excluded, displays his greatness
Yes, those MVP awards won by Zidane, Messi, Modric, R9, Romario, Maradona where Ronaldo could win "0" in a total of 4 WC + 5 EC, I would hate these with passion as well if I were a Ronaldo fan, also completely ignore Ronaldo's personal favorites Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, league top scorer awards as well..
So, Ronaldo did never play against San Marino or Belarus, wow, big deal, definitely helps his case against Muller, also forgot to add Liechtenstein)) Ronaldo also played against Cyprus + Albania. Imagine thinking playing 28 games against Cyprus, Albania, Lux. Faroe, Latvia, Lithuania, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Lichtenstein etc. & scoring 48 goals is the same as Gerd Muller playing 4 games against Albania+Cyprus and scoring 9 goals, mental gymnastics strong there..
One more thing:
Gerd Muller against France/Italy/England: 7 goals in 5 games, scored at least a goal in every single one of them..
Ronaldo against France/Italy/England/Spain/Germany/Brazil/Argentina/Uruguay 7 goals (including 3 penalties) in 30 games, was scoreless in 26 of these 30 games.
As the great Eusebio rightly said (probably another cheap point for you):
"The comparisons make me sad. It's easier now. I never played against Liechtenstein and Azerbaijan".
"It's wrong. There is no comparison. I scored my 41 goals in 60 games. It's easier now because you play more games against weak teams."
https://www.marca.com/2013/09/11/en/football/international_football/1378917585.html
Muller (blue part), not sure what you're talking about, did you just pick out 5 games where he did score and claim he scored in every single one of them?
I know for a fact he's played Spain a few times and never scored against them.
If that's the case, Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 3 games against France, Spain and Netherlands.
Klose has 10 more WC goals than Messi, your point being?
Yes, imagine Schilacci, Forlan, Donnarumma winning those carrying their teams, and Ronaldo not in 9 EC+WC tournaments, that's how weak he is in international tournamentsOh those MVP awards the likes of Zagorakis, Donnarumma, Forlán, Schillaci has also won.
Muller (blue part), not sure what you're talking about, did you just pick out 5 games where he did score and claim he scored in every single one of them?
I know for a fact he's played Spain a few times and never scored against them.
If that's the case, Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 3 games against France, Spain and Netherlands.
correction, that's Muller's record against WC winning nations, 7 goals in 13 games vs Ronaldo 7 goals (including 3 penalties) in 30 games, the ultimate statpadder with 48 goals in 28 games against minnows.. Eusebio had 10 in 16 games against those major teams..
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That Eusebio scored 2 more goals playing 11 less games in WC exposing Ronaldo's well known "secret" that his per game goal ratio is weak especially against major rivals, that he has to play tons more games to have a similar number of goals and that newly emerged European minnows in 90s are his savior
Read below again the quotes by Eusebio..
"The comparisons make me sad. It's easier now. I never played against Liechtenstein and Azerbaijan".
"It's wrong. There is no comparison. I scored my 41 goals in 60 games. It's easier now because you play more games against weak teams."
https://www.marca.com/2013/09/11/en/football/international_football/1378917585.html
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Of course those goalscoring records have generated a worldwide interest. I am not sure why you are so desperate to put in down into nothing in order to prove a point, it seems you have a personal issue recognising the most goals record and most international goal record in particular. They are simply significance records recognised by major body/institutions and attract massive attention from major media:
Career goal record:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/60720211
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/12/...-806-goal-fifa-all-time-record-spt/index.html
https://www.skysports.com/football/...do-becomes-top-goalscorer-in-football-history
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cristiano-ronaldo-breaks-fifas-time-073207102.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/17928874/cristiano-ronaldo-hat-trick-fifa-record-man-utd-spurs/
International goal record:
https://www.guinnessworldrecords.co...or-most-goals-scored-in-international-matches
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/58412201
https://www.skysports.com/football/...is-team-believed-they-could-win-until-the-end
https://www.espn.com/soccer/portuga...ks-mens-all-time-international-scoring-record
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...o-international-goal-record-portugal-ireland/
Euro goal record:
https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/...1000--ronaldo-claims-all-time-scoring-record/
https://www.skysports.com/football/...record-as-holders-see-off-hungary-in-budapest
https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/15...t-goalscorer-in-european-championship-history
https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-eu...ls-record-in-historic-fifth-finals-appearance
And you arguments are mainly base on the followings points:
1. Ali Daei’s international record wasn’t significance, hence Ronaldo’s record shouldn’t be significance
- Ali Daei’s record are from Asian continent, where the football standard are very low, of course given its context it didn’t generate as much attention.
- Even so, Ali Daei has always been given credits to his record regardless. For instance, and even you know his name and achievement didn’t you?
- Ronaldo is from European continent, it’s arguably the highest standard of football, of course it’s far more significance.
2. Ronaldo goals are mostly stat padding against minors. He also has less impressive scoring rate if compared to past greats
- as already been proven, not only Ronaldo scored more international goals than anyone in history, he also scored more goals against top 10 and top 20 international opponents than anyone else during past few decades or so
- it’s true past greats like Muller or Eusebio has better scoring rate than the modern players. But we are talking about different eras of football really. It’s attacking football vs defensive football era, huge difference. Back in those era you can have some physical not so fit players who were alcoholic yet scoring many goals, in modern era it’s near impossible. Not saying those eras were not as significance, but it’s hard to compare across different eras because football simply wasn’t the same back then as of now. The overall defensive awareness/tactics of the game has evolved greatly over the past 50+ years.
- don’t forget Ronaldo didn’t start his career as forward. Those are main strikers throughout their career you are comparing to. Ronaldo did start his career as midfield winger (for around 200 games), then move to wing forward position for majority of his career. He is only become pure striker in recent years. Of course this will average down his scoring rate over the years.
- If we only comparing his scoring rate as forward/wing forward, he is every bit as impressive as any of those past greats. For example, as wing forward, Ronaldo has 450 goals in 437 games for Real Madrid in Spain and CL, that is 1.02 goal per game at the highest level of football over 9 years of period. I don’t think there’s anyone better in terms of scoring rate at highest level in such extensive period.
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The gap between Eusebio and Ronaldo as footballing talents isn't as big as the gap between Messi and Klose. So it is a silly analogy reply.
Yeah, definitely, goal scoring records have generated the same amount of attention as Ballon D'or)). as if posting news outlet links is proves a point showing football world cares.. A simple of injury of a famous player or an interesting event in his private life will generate higher coverage.. I can post much higher number of links, what does that prove? You are acting as if football world cares about this more than Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes etc. which is ridiculous.. Nobody cares, go back and check the previous Ballon D'or threads only on this forum to see what football fans care about most when it comes to awards not to mention Ballon D'or being the ultimate dream award for every single player even Ronaldo himself. I have no idea what exactly you are trying to prove here, all people see here is you creating an artificial narrow category to fit your narrative while excluding the records in top awards in the football world, playmaking etc. Nobody buys that (probably not even you), not even great Eusebio. You're probably another Ronaldo fan from Portugal..
As I have mentioned before:
"I know, you know, everybody knows here that had Ronaldo had the lead in Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes as the record holder, had he won WC MVP awards, you would be the first one emphasizing those and create categories for each of those for Ronaldo.. Imagine Ronaldo having lead in those and Messi only on "total goals scored" playing tons of more games, and I am sure you will design the records category the same way.. Imagine Ronaldo being a GOAT level playmaker like Maradona, Messi, Cruyff, I am sure you will exclude a category with the focus on playmaking as you are doing now.."
The fact that nobody mentions Messi breaking Pele's record with Messi fans paying almost zero attention while "some" Ronaldo fans are trying to hype up goal scoring records playing hundred more games stadpadding against minnows more than anyone else by far in football history shows the level of their desperation.
In the previous era, there were no lithuanias, latvias, armenias, kazakhstans etc., defenses could get away with murder, there were much less number of minnows therefore much less games. It was much harder to qualify for ECs, WCs due to number of team limitations.
Let me create my own categories as below:
Talent: Messi, Pele, Maradona
Playmaking: Messi, Maradona
Goalscoring: Messi, Pele, Ronaldo
Ballon D'ors: Messi, Pele
International Tournament Best Player: Messi, Pele, Maradona
No of trophies: Messi
let me know if you have any objection..
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