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Mesut Özil
- Thread starter charleysurf
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I don't follow, surely you accept that some central midfielders are not "complete" enough to operate in a midfield two?
Yes, they can, but they don't. Because teams don't play open football like you want them to. The midfielders in a midfield two always have big defensive responsibilities these days and players like Pastore aren't played there because they can't play it effectively, he's a liability. Do you appreciate the need for tactics and player roles rather than simply playing talented players wherever possible?
I have to say I think Pastore(like Ganso) is more of a #8 and does like to have the ball in deeper areas than traditional #10s while playing a more patient passing style, compared to someone like Kaka or Ozil who likes to attack the defence quickly and excels playing on the break - as seen by their success in two very successful counter-attacking international teams - but I still think he doesn't offer enough defensively to play in a two even for a very attacking team.
Is that role a #8? I always thought it was a #4 as Guardiola was seen as the first of that kind. Speaking of Ganso, you saw him the other night, does he offer more defensively than Pastore?
Oh no I don't mean that deep, not someone like Xavi or Pirlo no, it's somewhere in between the two. He'll still carry the ball in central areas and is a predominantly forward-thinking player, but he's not always looking for the kill in the way Kaka or Ozil are. Kaka's altered his game somewhat at Madrid because he's been playing alongside Ronaldo who does a lot of the same work and he's on the decline physically, so has to play a more patient, controlling role, but I don't think that's his natural role.The #8 is pretty much halfway between the #4 and #10, from what I gather.
I think he does, yeah. Probably enough to justify playing him in a three man midfield in the way we play it really, quite deep and more responsibilities but he pressed the opposition centre mids very well and he was willing to fill in the gaps left by Ramires and Andre Santos(high up the pitch). Although in saying that he didn't do as much work in the couple of games I saw of him for Santos so it might've just been one game, or might be a case of working harder for the national team in general - see Robinho - but I dunno, on first glance he was relatively impressive in that sense. I don't think Pastore's quite as useful when his team don't have the ball, although I may be wrong.
Ah I see, my mistake I read more into it than you meant. The #8 seems to be more of a modern role as the position of midfielder continues to break into separate speciality sub roles.
It could also be a case of what each manager asks of him, the style of Brazilian league football requiring a different approach than the international scene. With Pastore I've only seen a handful of games and in them I'd say he was physical but more in the sense of holding off players than knocking players off the ball and closing down, but I always think that element can be brought into a players game with the right coach when a player has the positional sense Pastore already shows.
So the first real offer comes for Ozil and he is ready to jump. Granted it's Madrid but, it just seems like he doesn't have a preference and will go to any of the big clubs that come in for him.
Of course not every player can play in a midfield 2. Part of being a central midfielder is doing a good job both defending and attacking. Players who can only do one or the other are going to find it tough at top clubs.
Pastore is a free player for in the hole. Maybe if Roy Keane was around and in his prime he could carry him defensively. But thats not how it is.
Can't understand why somebody would want to go to Madrid considering the midfield they already have. Also can't understand why Real would want to spend money on him considering the midfield they already have. Madness on both ends.
When it comes to Real, logic doesn't play a part in anything.
Typical Madrid then.
Banega
Özil to hold talks with Bremen over a possible transfer to Real Madrid. He is said to be unhappy that an offer from the Spaniards was turned down.
3 - 4 years time, Pastore will make it into anyones team.
You just love him don't you?
I think you would die of happiness if he ever signed for us
I'd say Banega plays a different role, he's decent in attacking but he's more of a holding MF who is sort of box to box so I don't think he counts, a Banega - Pastore MF is Argentina's Future imo. Unless they play Cambiasso/Mascherano, but in four years those two are currently Argentina's potentially world class players.
Thought it was mostly that they turned it down without talking to him first about it is why he got upset. If the offer is no where near what Bremen will accept then why would they even tell him first.
If Madrid come with the right offer, doesn't sound like Bremen will stand in their way - so what is Ozil going to tell Bremen, sell me at a cheaper price otherwise .. what?
So he wants to go to Madrid who already have Kaka?
he will sign for Madrid today
Bastard
I predict the Pastore ******** after this one.
The same way Scholes used to. This lad has the positional sense that is necessary for the role and can take care of himself physically as a bonus. Being such a young player too, at a club that plays with a midfield 2 he would grow in the role.
He doesnt normally play that role, but he did play in the hole several times last season when Silva was unavailable. And while I dont feel he was at his best there last season, who knows how he will develop in the future. It could be that he does end up that type of player.
Personally I wouldnt think that would be the best use of him as he isnt a highly mobile player. He wouldnt be a threat running in behind the defence or quick to support the front player for instance. And being small without a significant jump he shouldnt be much of a threat for crossed balls.
From the little I've seen, Pastore will end up playing a more advanced role and not a proper midfield one for Argentina. While Banega will be given a role which defends too. Mayve Pastore takes over Messi's current role in behind the strikers and Messi either goes right up front or onto the right wing - As he should be more dangerous there for Argentina with Banega able to feed the ball out to him more often than the usual Argentina midfielders.
Going to Madrid?
It's hard to fathom why he would want to go to Madrid...how will he get games in that team with so many midfielders ahead of him?
At least Barca I can understand as they might need a versatile midfielder...but Real?
Baffling.
At least Barca I can understand as they might need a versatile midfielder...but Real?
Baffling.
The only situation that is good for Ozil is Kaka's injury. He'll get a chance to establish himself first, if he does then Kaka should be worried. I just still struggle to see Ozil playing that role that Mourihno likes in the 4-2-1-3. He's not the same as Snjieder and certainly won't defend the same, although to be fair it's Spain, and he'll get more time on the ball.
Ronaldo...............Ozil/Kaka...................Di Maria
....................Higuan/Benzema
It's FM 2011
A young player wanting to move to the world's biggest club is hardly baffling. OK he won't walk into their first team, but Hernandez and Smalling won't walk into ours. Do you find it baffling that they signed for us as well?
Your forgetting Sergio Canales and Van Der Vart.
They are the only one who have put in a bid. His option is to stay at Werder or go to Real. The decission is easy.
Exactly. I'm sure he thinks he has the ability to force his way into their best XI. If he doesn't, then he probably isn't cut out for playing at that level anyway.
If he goes to Madrid, cheeky bid for Kaka?
For what £50m? Or the new Scrooge-ish United's valuation of £5m?
Today, Marca are saying that Madrid have increased their original offer by another 5 million Euro to take it to 14 million and that Calderon is certain that the player will be theirs and pass a medical by Wednesday this week. I expect Werder to ask for more money and accept 20 million and do the deal.
Good riddance. Finally the ozilmania on the caf may come to a rest.
It wasn't really Ozil mania. It was only transfer muppetry as the new, under the radar signings, have left us unable to express it. It could have been anyone.
SAF obviously doesn't want him.
He's well-aware that other clubs would be after him and if it came to a bidding war, United wouldn't stand a chance. He had a (possible) chance of closing the deal a few weeks back when we had the lead in the deal but didn't.
He's well-aware that other clubs would be after him and if it came to a bidding war, United wouldn't stand a chance. He had a (possible) chance of closing the deal a few weeks back when we had the lead in the deal but didn't.
I'll agree with that.
I know. Muppetry is fine, after all it is the summer, a long boring one at that. But go through the bebe thread and you'll see what I mean. Some reactions there, jesus wept.
I made a cracking prediction in the newbies Ozil thread and one in the mains a while ago which are 100% accurate. Anyway I'm thinking of concentrating my full Muppet powers on the Maradonna to manage Villa thread. That would be miles better than us signing Ozil.
Yeah, agreed. For some reason I read your question as "Who would you like at United?"
With our attacking wingers and multitude of strikers, I think we would be far better off with Banega than Ozil or Pastore. We have tried to turn Anderson into a more Banega type midfielder haven't we? I don't really understand what we have done with Anderson, but I still have hope that he will come good.
Banega is also, probably, a bit more versatile. Horses for courses, I think Banega would be best for us, but that isn't to say he is better than the other two, just different. (Plus I haven't watched much of Pastore)
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