Decotron
Full Member
Anderson likes thisAny player can play in a midfield two. This argument is getting silly.
Anderson likes thisAny player can play in a midfield two. This argument is getting silly.
I don't follow, surely you accept that some central midfielders are not "complete" enough to operate in a midfield two?Any player can play in a midfield two. This argument is getting silly.
Yes, they can, but they don't. Because teams don't play open football like you want them to. The midfielders in a midfield two always have big defensive responsibilities these days and players like Pastore aren't played there because they can't play it effectively, he's a liability. Do you appreciate the need for tactics and player roles rather than simply playing talented players wherever possible?Any player can play in a midfield two. This argument is getting silly.
Is that role a #8? I always thought it was a #4 as Guardiola was seen as the first of that kind. Speaking of Ganso, you saw him the other night, does he offer more defensively than Pastore?Yes, they can, but they don't. Because teams don't play open football like you want them to. The midfielders in a midfield two always have big defensive responsibilities these days and players like Pastore aren't played there because they can't play it effectively, he's a liability. Do you appreciate the need for tactics and player roles rather than simply playing talented players wherever possible?
I have to say I think Pastore(like Ganso) is more of a #8 and does like to have the ball in deeper areas than traditional #10s while playing a more patient passing style, compared to someone like Kaka or Ozil who likes to attack the defence quickly and excels playing on the break - as seen by their success in two very successful counter-attacking international teams - but I still think he doesn't offer enough defensively to play in a two even for a very attacking team.
Oh no I don't mean that deep, not someone like Xavi or Pirlo no, it's somewhere in between the two. He'll still carry the ball in central areas and is a predominantly forward-thinking player, but he's not always looking for the kill in the way Kaka or Ozil are. Kaka's altered his game somewhat at Madrid because he's been playing alongside Ronaldo who does a lot of the same work and he's on the decline physically, so has to play a more patient, controlling role, but I don't think that's his natural role.The #8 is pretty much halfway between the #4 and #10, from what I gather.Is that role a #8? I always thought it was a #4 as Guardiola was seen as the first of that kind. Speaking of Ganso, you saw him the other night, does he offer more defensively than Pastore?
Ah I see, my mistake I read more into it than you meant. The #8 seems to be more of a modern role as the position of midfielder continues to break into separate speciality sub roles.Oh no I don't mean that deep, not someone like Xavi or Pirlo no, it's somewhere in between the two. He'll still carry the ball in central areas and is a predominantly forward-thinking player, but he's not always looking for the kill in the way Kaka or Ozil are. Kaka's altered his game somewhat at Madrid because he's been playing alongside Ronaldo who does a lot of the same work and he's on the decline physically, so has to play a more patient, controlling role, but I don't think that's his natural role.The #8 is pretty much halfway between the #4 and #10, from what I gather.
I think he does, yeah. Probably enough to justify playing him in a three man midfield in the way we play it really, quite deep and more responsibilities but he pressed the opposition centre mids very well and he was willing to fill in the gaps left by Ramires and Andre Santos(high up the pitch). Although in saying that he didn't do as much work in the couple of games I saw of him for Santos so it might've just been one game, or might be a case of working harder for the national team in general - see Robinho - but I dunno, on first glance he was relatively impressive in that sense. I don't think Pastore's quite as useful when his team don't have the ball, although I may be wrong.
Any player can play in a midfield two. This argument is getting silly.
When it comes to Real, logic doesn't play a part in anything.Can't understand why somebody would want to go to Madrid considering the midfield they already have. Also can't understand why Real would want to spend money on him considering the midfield they already have. Madness on both ends.
Typical Madrid then.Can't understand why somebody would want to go to Madrid considering the midfield they already have. Also can't understand why Real would want to spend money on him considering the midfield they already have. Madness on both ends.
BanegaOzil Vs Pastore ? Who'd make it to your team ?
3 - 4 years time, Pastore will make it into anyones team.Ozil Vs Pastore ? Who'd make it to your team ?
You just love him don't you?3 - 4 years time, Pastore will make it into anyones team.
I'd say Banega plays a different role, he's decent in attacking but he's more of a holding MF who is sort of box to box so I don't think he counts, a Banega - Pastore MF is Argentina's Future imo. Unless they play Cambiasso/Mascherano, but in four years those two are currently Argentina's potentially world class players.Banega
Thought it was mostly that they turned it down without talking to him first about it is why he got upset. If the offer is no where near what Bremen will accept then why would they even tell him first.Özil to hold talks with Bremen over a possible transfer to Real Madrid. He is said to be unhappy that an offer from the Spaniards was turned down.
BastardÖzil to hold talks with Bremen over a possible transfer to Real Madrid. He is said to be unhappy that an offer from the Spaniards was turned down.
The same way Scholes used to. This lad has the positional sense that is necessary for the role and can take care of himself physically as a bonus. Being such a young player too, at a club that plays with a midfield 2 he would grow in the role.What makes you think he can play in a midfield two, with midfield twos playing as deep as they do now and him doing so little defensive work?
He doesnt normally play that role, but he did play in the hole several times last season when Silva was unavailable. And while I dont feel he was at his best there last season, who knows how he will develop in the future. It could be that he does end up that type of player.I'd say Banega plays a different role, he's decent in attacking but he's more of a holding MF who is sort of box to box so I don't think he counts, a Banega - Pastore MF is Argentina's Future imo. Unless they play Cambiasso/Mascherano, but in four years those two are currently Argentina's potentially world class players.
The only situation that is good for Ozil is Kaka's injury. He'll get a chance to establish himself first, if he does then Kaka should be worried. I just still struggle to see Ozil playing that role that Mourihno likes in the 4-2-1-3. He's not the same as Snjieder and certainly won't defend the same, although to be fair it's Spain, and he'll get more time on the ball.It's hard to fathom why he would want to go to Madrid...how will he get games in that team with so many midfielders ahead of him?
At least Barca I can understand as they might need a versatile midfielder...but Real?
Baffling.
A young player wanting to move to the world's biggest club is hardly baffling. OK he won't walk into their first team, but Hernandez and Smalling won't walk into ours. Do you find it baffling that they signed for us as well?It's hard to fathom why he would want to go to Madrid...how will he get games in that team with so many midfielders ahead of him?
At least Barca I can understand as they might need a versatile midfielder...but Real?
Baffling.
Your forgetting Sergio Canales and Van Der Vart.The only situation that is good for Ozil is Kaka's injury. He'll get a chance to establish himself first, if he does then Kaka should be worried. I just still struggle to see Ozil playing that role that Mourihno likes in the 4-2-1-3. He's not the same as Snjieder and certainly won't defend the same, although to be fair it's Spain, and he'll get more time on the ball.
Ronaldo...............Ozil/Kaka...................Di Maria
....................Higuan/Benzema
It's FM 2011
They are the only one who have put in a bid. His option is to stay at Werder or go to Real. The decission is easy.It's hard to fathom why he would want to go to Madrid...how will he get games in that team with so many midfielders ahead of him?
At least Barca I can understand as they might need a versatile midfielder...but Real?
Baffling.
Exactly. I'm sure he thinks he has the ability to force his way into their best XI. If he doesn't, then he probably isn't cut out for playing at that level anyway.A young player wanting to move to the world's biggest club is hardly baffling. OK he won't walk into their first team, but Hernandez and Smalling won't walk into ours. Do you find it baffling that they signed for us as well?
For what £50m? Or the new Scrooge-ish United's valuation of £5m?If he goes to Madrid, cheeky bid for Kaka?
It wasn't really Ozil mania. It was only transfer muppetry as the new, under the radar signings, have left us unable to express it. It could have been anyone.Good riddance. Finally the ozilmania on the caf may come to a rest.
I'll agree with that.SAF obviously doesn't want him.
He's well-aware that other clubs would be after him and if it came to a bidding war, United wouldn't stand a chance. He had a (possible) chance of closing the deal a few weeks back when we had the lead in the deal but didn't.
I know. Muppetry is fine, after all it is the summer, a long boring one at that. But go through the bebe thread and you'll see what I mean. Some reactions there, jesus wept.It wasn't really Ozil mania. It was only transfer muppetry as the new, under the radar signings, have left us unable to express it. It could have been anyone.
I made a cracking prediction in the newbies Ozil thread and one in the mains a while ago which are 100% accurate. Anyway I'm thinking of concentrating my full Muppet powers on the Maradonna to manage Villa thread. That would be miles better than us signing Ozil.I know. Muppetry is fine, after all it is the summer, a long boring one at that. But go through the bebe thread and you'll see what I mean. Some reactions there, jesus wept.
Yeah, agreed. For some reason I read your question as "Who would you like at United?"I'd say Banega plays a different role, he's decent in attacking but he's more of a holding MF who is sort of box to box so I don't think he counts, a Banega - Pastore MF is Argentina's Future imo. Unless they play Cambiasso/Mascherano, but in four years those two are currently Argentina's potentially world class players.