Wendy says that in season 1 when she discusses psychopaths with Holden, that they need to feel that they are the victims to survive, the main personality characteristic for psychopaths according to her is that they do not think other people have an inner self.
Television Mindhunter
- Thread starter Buchan
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The advance of tech makes it easier to catch them, psychological, scientific etc that's my assumption, harder for them to hide in a sense.
Just finished the first series last night. I don't know what to make of it.... I watched 10 episodes but from the second or third I wasn't sure if I liked it.
Thought Season 2 was a step up on Season 1.
Holden was a lot more tolerable. There was less of him, he was (somewhat) less sure of himself and his frustration at people not buying into to his ideas was rooted in real-world consequences (more dead children) and not just his ego. Beyond that, I found the application of their ideas (and how they conflicted with issues like racism and politics) more interesting than another series of interviews would have been.
I wonder if Wayne Williams really was the killer? Apparently the cases were re-opened just in 2019 with evidence being re-tested, though I'm not sure why.
Holden was a lot more tolerable. There was less of him, he was (somewhat) less sure of himself and his frustration at people not buying into to his ideas was rooted in real-world consequences (more dead children) and not just his ego. Beyond that, I found the application of their ideas (and how they conflicted with issues like racism and politics) more interesting than another series of interviews would have been.
I wonder if Wayne Williams really was the killer? Apparently the cases were re-opened just in 2019 with evidence being re-tested, though I'm not sure why.
Think the general consensus is that Wayne Williams committed some of the murders but likely didn't commit all of them.
It'd be a stroke of genius to do your own murder in the middle of a serial killer spree and make it look like they did it.
That's a movie right there. I'd get Gerard Butler in it.
That's a movie right there. I'd get Gerard Butler in it.
Yeah I thought this was good and his moments of self-doubt were interesting to see.
I think Holden only appears egotistical because of circumstance - a stuck-in-its-ways FBI and a partner who's able but not quite imaginative enough. Theirs is a 'marriage of convenience'; there's a level of mutual respect but they're rarely in sympathy.
I think this season was more about Holden seeing for himself what these men really are. He always glorified them a bit as purely test subjects because he'd never actually seen what they'd done, just these charismatic or strange men for him to manipulate and fawn over for his job. I thought the Atlanta stuff did a good job of making him realize how fecked up they actually are and I liked the contrast at the end of this season compared to last season where the FBI shutting down the enquiry meant these people not getting closure as opposed to him not getting what he wanted.
Should not have watched that last episode at 3am. That hotel room scene creeped me the feck out.
Wait what was that scene again?
It's just a bloke having a wank. What's creepy about that?
Absolutely mind boggling to see so many folks slate this show.
It's absolutely superb!
I'd say by season 5 it'll be in the same bracket as Soprano's and Breaking Bad.
It's absolutely superb!
I'd say by season 5 it'll be in the same bracket as Soprano's and Breaking Bad.
The actors they find for those killers look alike them so mucj 
Son of Sam is his clone basically
Son of Sam is his clone basicallyHaha I did the exact same thing!
Finished season two the other day and thought it was fantastic, in a strange sort of way. Given the horrifying subject matter, it is surprising how absorbing the show becomes. Both the wife and I were gutted when it finished - thoroughly enjoyed it, but we wanted to see more.
Some of the episodes are quite long, but they just seem to fly by as the dialogue is enthralling. I thought Bill Tench's character was fascinating (and so sad), but practically every scene is interesting in one way or another. Builds really well and the chilling music just adds to that feeling of pressure needing to be released.
Only two seasons in, and while this show definitely isn't for everyone, for me it is already shaping up to be one of Netflix's best. Get the feeling season three is going to be even better.
Some of the episodes are quite long, but they just seem to fly by as the dialogue is enthralling. I thought Bill Tench's character was fascinating (and so sad), but practically every scene is interesting in one way or another. Builds really well and the chilling music just adds to that feeling of pressure needing to be released.
Only two seasons in, and while this show definitely isn't for everyone, for me it is already shaping up to be one of Netflix's best. Get the feeling season three is going to be even better.
The scene where they interview Bright in the back of the car was devastating. Listening to him describe being shot in the head while still feeling guilty about not doing more to save his sister was bad enough, but the way it was put together with the sound of the trains, the two agents keeping eyes forward, and Bright barely looking up, made the atmosphere almost unbearable. This has to be the creepiest show not to feature any violence or gore, some of the scenes make me shiver just thinking about them.
100% agree. It's just so different from I watch in general, I love the pace, the information and all the details. Best show I've watched this year easily
Yeah indeed, that was an excellent scene.
Have people been slating it? I just assumed it had been well recieved.
Not even sure on what grounds it would be criticised. The writing, performances and aesthetics all seem fairly on point to me.
I think he simply is oblivious to his impression on other people. He's not egoistical or anything like that, he's simply not that good with people. Which is quite often hinted at, as he seems to be the only one from the group who has next to no private life and seems to be alone most of the time.
Good point. I didn't think of that.
It's clearly hinted that he's a bit of a sociopath, but just with a stronger conscience. However, the line that separates him from the guys he's interviewing is often quite thin, which he seemed to slowly wake up during the second half of season 1, if I remember well.
Yeah, I remember Holden suddenly taking a great interest in his girlfriend's feet after interviewing the prisoner with the shoe fetish.
Speaking of which, I'm very glad she wasn't in season two. Dreadful character.
I'm not sure I agree that Holden is sociopathic. I just think he's quite awkward with expressing empathy. In season two when he was actually in the midst of one of these serial killers sprees and seeing it first hand we saw an increasingly different, more empathetic side to him.
Mindhunter: Becoming Quentin Tarantino
I really thing he has sociopathic traits, but he has a moral compass which sets him apart. And indeed, there is an empathic side to him, which helps him not be "one of them". But I think showing things in shades of grey is a trademark of the show and the suggestions he's not that different from some of the serial killers were quite strong in season 1 I thought.
I finished season 2 last night and loved every minute of it. It might even have been better than the first season.
I liked the parallels between Tench's kid and the subjects they study and found the methods of the time in dealing with such problem cases fascinating. I loved the politics, both in Atlanta and internally with Gunn who could be a double for a general manager I once had with the exact same slimy, manipulative and ladder climbing nature. I even enjoyed the insight into Wendy's balancing of her personal life and career goals, it felt more sincere and nuanced than the usual token diversity storyline we get in modern shows.
I said it in another thread and @kouroux mentioned it but the casting is absolutely superb. Berkowitz, Kemper, Manson and Williams were all perfectly cast and while I'm not familiar with the SM killer in the last (second last?) episode, the actors performance was haunting.
I liked the parallels between Tench's kid and the subjects they study and found the methods of the time in dealing with such problem cases fascinating. I loved the politics, both in Atlanta and internally with Gunn who could be a double for a general manager I once had with the exact same slimy, manipulative and ladder climbing nature. I even enjoyed the insight into Wendy's balancing of her personal life and career goals, it felt more sincere and nuanced than the usual token diversity storyline we get in modern shows.
I said it in another thread and @kouroux mentioned it but the casting is absolutely superb. Berkowitz, Kemper, Manson and Williams were all perfectly cast and while I'm not familiar with the SM killer in the last (second last?) episode, the actors performance was haunting.
I kept waiting for Gunn to be a dick or creepy but apart from him undoing Wendy's button he didn't do much wrong, but for some reason he just felt wrong.
Who do we think, if anyone, was at fault for Wendy's relationship failing? I like Wendy but I'm not sure the whole blame should be lumped on her gf, as the show's writers seemed to want viewers to.
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He's definitely a wrong un.
The boss I has was the exact same way - came in on a charm offensive and hoodwinked us all, spent a few months blowing smoke up our arses while slipping sly divides between established relationships and somehow getting us to buy into his ladder climbing bullshit. It'll all fall apart as they realise he's only using them for his own gain and will drop them quicker than hot shit when it suits his agenda.
Not that I'm bitter or anything.
Yeah i had the same feeling. The second he was introduced i just though there's something off about this guy that will come to the fore by the time the season ends. Don't know if it was the way the actor played him or how he was written, but he just didn't feel right. But, as you said, apart from one or two unseeingly things nothing really materialised.
Somebody should investigate Wendy for absolutely murdering Kay.
Yeah no doubt, as you said, what sets him apart is that he actually does have a moral compass, unlike them. But the fact that he shares traits is why he's so good at connecting with them, I guess.
The writers. That storyline was pointless.
Well I'll tell you Steve: no one gives a shit
I do, mate. I am minus a life.
Half an hour left for me... Don't wanna finish it. I prefer this season to the previous one which I liked too
I've only ever seen the actor play a bad guy which didn't help