gees thanks you corrected a proper noun for me. enjoy the 5th place and the 6th grade.
Mourinho at Chelsea
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His fault is being much bigger than Oscar. I never realized there was a rule about that players like that engaging in physical battles with smaller ones.Still can't believe Ibrahimovic got sent off for this.
If anyone deserved to walk it was Oscar, the cheating little pussy.
No prob, I am not obsessed with 1st place as I have thankfully had it more often than your team will probably ever have.
Highly amusingOnly recently some were singling out this defender as the best in England
Re the surrounding of referees I think some here need to be careful considering United have had a fine history of it and bemoan it's absence now. The pic of Keane et al in the "awesome United pics" thread had some on here defend such behaviour as doing "whatever it takes" to get an edge and that this is part of a "winning mentality".
Exactly. United have a history of doing it so it is hypocritical to criticise Chelsea for it.Highly amusing
Re the surrounding of referees I think some here need to be careful considering United have had a fine history of it and bemoan it's absence now. The pic of Keane et al in the "awesome United pics" thread had some on here defend such behaviour as doing "whatever it takes" to get an edge and that this is part of a "winning mentality".
Is this going to come back to bite them on the ass? Surely officials will be watching out for this type of tactic from now on.We're supposed to believe that this is a normal reaction from players
Zlatan had it spot on here "I felt there were 11 babies around me"
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/psg-striker-zlatan-ibrahimovic-blasts-5317080
The bolder part I agree with you.
As for rotation, you have to absolutely sure about it, cause it might backfire to you.
Rafa always criticize for to much rotation, Also most of coaches prefers to have stable starting 11 and which are strongest so can't blame them.
I've seen him jump into those kind of tackles at least twice this season. He seems like a snide little shit.Still can't believe Ibrahimovic got sent off for this.
If anyone deserved to walk it was Oscar, the cheating little pussy.
Yeah we've seen this happen quite a lot with Fellaini
No it's not as long as you also criticized when Utd used to do it.
I like Mounrinho but my God, what he did yesterday was not pragmatism, it was stupidity. I've never seen a manager who can totally suck the life out of his attacking players like Jose. It's very clear he was playing for a 0-0 draw, to just do the minimum to go through. With the players they have, and 1 man advantage, Chelsea should have rightly gone for it, but Jose and his negativity ensured they are now out of the champions league.
The media have totally turned on him now. The love he enjoyed last season is gone.
Yes, of course.
True but did you ever see all 10 players being around the ref?
Oh c'mon. We took harassing the ref to a pretty ugly level and it was one we had to back down from. Trying to distance our players past behaviour from that of Chelsea last night purely on the basis of numbers is disingenuous to say the least.
You're exaggerating a bit there dont you think? Yes we did it but it wasnt so special as you put it.
I didnt distancer our players past behaviour from that of Chelsea, just said althogh our players have been guilty of it I've never see all the outfield players running to the ref like a bunch of babies waving their hands around.
Bound to happen eventually. Good piece in The Times this morning basically stating that Maurren is now at a point where he thinks he can do and say as he pleases. Inevitable that a love affair built on sand is going to crumble at some point.
No.
You've been watching a different United then or haven't yet reached that point of watching them objectively.
I could say the same to you.
I doubt you'll find anyone but the blinkered fan deny that we have serious form when it comes to ref harassment. I'll refrain from posting again the pic of the infamous Keane led charge at d'Urso that caused such outcry but that was the zenith of a policy of bullying and harassing referees that often came close to crossing the line before that. Keane himself apologised to the man many years later but for you it "wasn't so special". Fair enough that's your opinion but considering that it became global sporting news and, if I remember rightly, even SAF described it as "ugly" it would suggest that you're the one who has a problem looking at the actions of United players objectively.
The difference is that, with José and his staff, it appears to be a deliberate policy designed to pressurise officials. It's no accident that whenever there's a (supposed) foul against one of his players - no matter which club he's managing at the time - virtually the entire backroom staff rise from the bench as one, as they're so 'outraged'.
Lets stop with those 'how I see and how you see actions of United players and what United did you watch and what United did I watch' posts cause they're lame to say the least.
And I repeat I didnt say they didnt do it, on the contrary they did. I didnt say that it wasnt ugly cause it was but as I said I think it wasnt worse or better than the stuff other teams made and as I said - I never saw 10 outfield players swarming over ref like Chelsea yesterday.
In United 2 or 3 players would come to the ref, Keane leading the charge. Yesterday they all ran to him and it was embarassing. THe same happened in Madrid while Mourinho was there.
Mourinho is a great manager. I just feel like he has used up most of his luck in his past two CL triumphs and every one needs a bit of luck. That should take another 5-7 years for lady luck to balance it out. Having said that he got yet another two big 'lucky' moments in his favor yesterday so clearly there's still some left. Not to mention against us too when he was with Real Madrid.
You're contradicting yourself now and all the evidence to boot. I'll say no more on it.
I'd suggest that under SAF we had the same and I suspect that you won't find an opposition fan on here who'd disagree.
I think it is wrong to single out Chelsea for this behavior. I remember every top team doing it at some point for ourselves, Barcelona, Bayern, Arsenal. What I would say though is there seems to be something extra with Mourinho's teams, his teams seem to always have that war mentality. The Madrid vs Barcelona game under his tenure, The Inter side, Porto and this Chelsea team now always seem to be more concerned with battling and getting dirty than playing football. It's weird because he usually has some of the best players around but always seems to send his team out to fight. It's not a coincidence that his games vs Liverpool or Barcelona with various teams are still held as examples of nastiness.
I really dont know how am I contradicting myself.
It's all relative really. There isn't a top team that doesn't harass refs. Bayern done us with the Rafael sending off like we did to many teams. Arsenal were no angels either and that Barcelona side with all their talent weren't shy from pressurizing a ref. The difference with Mourinho though is it seems he actually pays more attention to it than the actual game. His teams aren't even concerned with playing, I would say that's unique.
Maybe so but opposition fans aren't as unbiased as we might hope. It seems to have become an established 'truth' that Fergie had a ridiculous level of influence over just about everyone involved in officialdom - this position alone says it all about 'neutral' perceptions of SAF's expediency.
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This is true to an extent. However Mourinho's whole game plan in this sort of game is usually more focused on the opposition in general, and on the added extras, like getting under the opponent's skin.
I think he drums into his players to capitalise on every opportunity more than Sir Alex ever would have.
I don't see the point @Mali_Zeus is trying to make. Never in the history of the Caf has the practice of ganging up on the ref been encouraged.
I agree with this.
Lots of teams harrass refs - although less so nowadays than a few years ago - but Chelsea/Mourinho for me take it to a whole nother level. It seems a very deliberate, premeditated, calculated tactic from his teams, that the entire squad/staff will unite in outrage over something, with the "victim" (Oscar in this case) doing everything they can to exaggerate and feign injury as well.
I dont think it was ever quite as organised or calculated with us (or most other teams) - it was more just like Fergie said "Put a bit of pressure on the ref in the first half and maybe he will give us something", whereas watching Chelsea it looks literally like a theatre production, scripted and everything. Hell you could probably go down to their training ground and see them doing dress rehearsals. I can imagine next game they might have a practice run in the pre-match warmup, just to really make sure they are all on their A-game, so to speak.
Where did I say that?
@Walrus's post above - its a nice one and basically what I think.
Also, it seems we must ask the oppo. fans about us and Fergie and harassing the refs.
As if they would give us a nice, neutral view of it.
Apologies, I'm mistaken. As you were.
A trend partly instigated by the d'Urso incident
Of course not but it's a useful counterpoint to the rabid fan who sees nothing but what he wants to see in his own club. There's some intelligent and objective opposition fans on here despite certain posters doubts that they could possibly have a neutral view. More blinkered thinking right there.
Your point is only about useful or as useless as my own opinion on perceived bias and neutrality. For every Caf United fan questioning Evans' guilt in the spitting incident, there's another Liverpool fan questioning Suarez's guilt. Objectivity isn't opposition-specific.
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Love?
The argument that there is some kind of qualitative, as opposed to quantitative, difference between pressuring the ref when done by x number of players instead of y seems a bit stupid to me.
Heard in jail:
Convict X: "You stole nine fridges? That's terrible, you're going to burn in hell."
Convict Y: "You're here on a theft charge as well."
Convict X: "I only stole 5."
Heard in jail:
Convict X: "You stole nine fridges? That's terrible, you're going to burn in hell."
Convict Y: "You're here on a theft charge as well."
Convict X: "I only stole 5."
I think you're right. The cheating is systematic in Mourinho's teams. But this is hardly news. It's been this way ever since Porto. And maybe before that. The way they take it in turns to foul the same player, always add a bit extra after the ball is gone, delay opposition free kicks and throw-ins, dive, feign injury, provoke opposition players, intimidate referees ... while Mourinho lies his face off in every interview always trying to claim the moral high ground. He's like a one man Ministry of Truth. Whenever they're beaten and he does his I'm A Good Sport, Me thing and insists on shaking hands with every player on the other side, I always assume that's entirely for the benefit of the media and - possibly - an attempt to tap somebody up. Basically he's a cheating cheat who cheats and so are his teams. The only new development here is that the newspapers and TV have suddenly decided it's time to mention it.
That was not a knockout round you pistol
So what? Had we lost it would have put us out you pillock.
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