Mourinho Gone

[Greck]

Hello Mourinho ****, I'm sorry us enjoying to rub it in as a result of having to suffer your arrogant talk downs for the past two years is hurting you. Can dish it out but can't take it and going the "oh look how morally superior and grown up I am, I wish I had used this theory back then too when I thought I was so much better than you but nah I'm a hypocrite to the square root of RED ARMY TILL I DIE (redcafe thinking man's poster tm)" way from your high horse really is a sight to behold.

Mourinho OUT.

Going to cosign on this. If you don't like the thread get out. There's still plenty to be discussed and the thread keeps those discussions out of the Ole threads.

 

[pacifictheme]

It's definitely wasn't all Mouinho fault and the players and the board take some blame also. I also don't think he was bring us down on purpose, but at the start of this season he looked like he wanted to pick a fight with everyone. He's always had elements of this but more so this season.

As for the player not running for Mouriho, we have been 19th and 20th in the distance covered for the last 2.5 season which says to me that it tactics not the player unwilling to run as I've not heard him complain about this during his time.

Yeah i was fully on board the jose train at the end of last season but from the start of pre season he was awful. Picking fights, calling players out. He was either out of his depth or trying to get fired. It was a total shitshow.

Yeah the players by the end may have tried to help him on his way, maybe, we'll never know. Or he may have made uniteds atmosphere so toxic the players had given up.

Either way its good he has gone. I just hope whoever is in charge next season has two philosophies. Attacking football and playing youth.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Tbh it's because the pro Jose supporters were exactly like this too while he was still here. Some even extended this treatment to some of our players.

Its not right. But it's understandable.

Have to say I agree.

Some posters seemed to adopt a form of virtue-signalling, proving their superiority as fans by backing the manager no matter how appalling his results, or behaviour. Anyone who disagreed was labeled a spoilt glory-hunter.

Hopefully those posters have jumped ship with Mourinho.

 

[Raees]

Nah, this thread can serve as some sort of healing stop for most of us who had to put up with Jose and his acolytes excuses. Everytime his nonsenses get debunked we have this thread to come in and point them out.

This thread provides a cathartic release and I'd keep it around for a while.

Well seeing as I can't convince you otherwise, feast on the following...

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mou...a-sat-6-30-pm-cet.436638/page-2#post-22175354

• Peak Acolyte period... falling for Mourinho's lies about 3 man midfields and having to fight half the caf.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/pog...-rossi-take-note.443656/page-10#post-23433316

I guarantee that Pogba will turn around public perception of him with a string of matchwinning performances. He's too good not to.

Shaw, Martial... Bailly? Is he the latest victim of Jose’s vindictiveness or simply not good enough?

In response to SER19 and the wonderful VP89 - setting out once and for all, Jose was vindictive and unreasonable in his use of Martial

Anthony Martial

First things first, aged 19 debut season 17 goals and 12 assists. By way of context, Insigne (once got 20 goals a season but generally under 14 goals) Bale only managed to beat this in the season he earnt himself the move to Real but generally hovers around the 20 a season mark, Robben similarly so and only once he went to Bayern and matured fully and it took Messi when he was 22 to breach the 20 goal mark and Ronaldo aged 21.

So if we are just looking at it statistically one of the most productive teenagers of all time for a wide player - certainly in modern era. Looking at his game then vs now, there is feck all difference. There are some who might argue he is 'tracking' back more but it is not like he wasn't tracking back then either, it is just compared to a workhorse like Lingard of course he isn't going to match that but he offers much more going forward to make up for that.




So anyway first thing Jose does instead of trying to build the team around this weapon of huge talent is to cut him down to size by making him give up shirt number for an old favourite who isn’t going to last here long (where was the long term planning behind this move? Where was the awareness that something like this whilst objectively means feck all but to a young player might piss them off for no perfectly good reason? Imagine taking 7 off a young Ronaldo after he’s had a good season because we’ve decided to bring in an ageing forward elsewhere - would he not throw a strop too?). Perhaps this was just designed to test him or perhaps Jose didn't particularly care whether or not it mattered regardless sloppy man-management and hurts the feelings of a key key player for us even at that very tender age.

Then to make matters worse, Mourinho subs him off 4 games in a row at the start of the 16/17 season (in all games we were winning by the way) and then leaves him on the bench for our game against City which we lose 1-2 at home. Our best player from the season below doesn't start a game against our biggest rivals? nonsensical. He is then pretty much in and out of the side the rest of the season and even after cracking performances such as his 2 goals v West Ham - he's dropped.


By the end of the season, after 31 starts (only 18 in the league) he is subbed off 12 times including 4 before half time and yet results wise, he usually featured in sides which won 18 wins, 8 draws, 5 losses (one of which was the Watford game where he is taken off at 37 minutes and where even in his absence, we still go on to concede two more in a 3-1 defeat).

Season after we see the Martial v Rashford battle which Jose creates to get the best out of the two, and it becomes clear as day that Martial is the better player and is forcing Mourinho's hand. When he starts, we win and even off the bench he influences games in our favour. By November he's become the de facto starter on the left flank but even then Mourinho continually subs him off by the 60th-70th minute. By December even Jose seems convinced at this stage or so it seems as he enters into brilliant form going into the January Transfer window.



Martial scores 3 goals in 3 games in January and is electrifying and then shit hits the fan when Sanchez is signed and Martial is pushed onto the right flank where he has never played. United are awful, but he still remains our most potent threat albeit he isn't on point with his decision making and things don't quite go his way - it happens.



Which brings us to the infamous Newcastle game where he once again played on the right (see above). After this game he didn't start consecutive games for the rest of the season and only started against teams like Brighton, Bournemouth. Yet look at this performance.. he's our most dynamic attacker by a long stretch, twice he hits good through balls putting in Sanchez who fails to control and the two biggest opportunities are created through his movement and yes he didn't finish the two big chances, but both times they were on target and ffs are we going to criticise Martial of all players for lack of finishing ability? he's one of the most clinical finishers in Europe, let alone United.

So now this brings us to this season where pre season, the 'baby' issue and Mourinho wanting to swap him for Willian yet results have forced Mourinho's hands, and the players have probably demanded that Martial is reinstated and we are witnessing him play consecutive games again - and surprise surprise he has proven to be our most dangerous and effective attacker.

Shaw I can possibly forgive but the way Martial has been treated is an utter disgrace and not defensible in any way shape or form. The very definition of vindictive.

Spoiler: Jose saving his skin thread

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jose-saving-his-skin-yet-again-manager-v-players-blame-game.437386/

Spoiler: Mourinho vs Pogba/Martial - who would you rather keep thread?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mourinho-versus-pogba-martial-who-would-you-rather-keep.436820/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jos...a-will-be-the-key-to-reclaiming-glory.433671/

(please in particular see Maradona10's glorious response which is worshipped by Chief and other acolytes. which contained the following beautifully constructed counter-arguments..)

• Sign players with skills, wingplay etc cannot be done in just one or two windows, its a job that is huge and requires 4-5 windows atleast. Look at city it has taken them 8-9 years of constant investment that has constantly increased over that period too.
• Do you really think if we could play out from the back, We wouldnt do it on purpose? same about Winning ball back.

 

[Cloud7]

Hello Mourinho ****, I'm sorry us enjoying to rub it in as a result of having to suffer your arrogant talk downs for the past two years is hurting you. Can dish it out but can't take it and going the "oh look how morally superior and grown up I am, I wish I had used this theory back then too when I thought I was so much better than you but nah I'm a hypocrite to the square root of RED ARMY TILL I DIE (redcafe thinking man's poster tm)" way from your high horse really is a sight to behold.

Mourinho OUT.

Yeah I’m going to go with this. The people who remained loyal to Mourinho were extremely condescending, vitriolic and insulting to people who thought that Mourinho wasn’t right for United.

 

[Pexbo]

The club and fans with a long overdue decision to sack Jose have woken up from a nightmare. Too premature to discuss long-term implications.

Enjoying the moment.

Well said mate. Exactly how I am feeling right now. Solskjaer said it best when he said it’s one game at a time. It’s a cliche but so true in this case. After being miserable for so long and having limited expectations on the season there is no point in worrying about where we will finish or what will happen in the summer.

We’ve started to play some really nice football, the attitudes have changed and it’s just nice to look forward to each game so we can do just that. Enjoy the build up, enjoy the match, rinse and repeat. If it goes well and we are somewhere close to 4th by the run in we can then enjoy that too.

 

[stevoc]

Thank you. You can also add playing Herrera at the back vs Spurs

Yep

Herrera in a back vs Spurs 3-0 loss
Mctominay in a back 3 vs West Ham 3-1 loss
Mctominay and Matic in a back 3 vs Southampton lucky 2-2 draw

It was sabotage or he was trying to prove some sort of strange point to the board that he needs more defenders. Which would only work if they didn't know that there were defenders fit and available for all 3 games. Which they obviously would known so then you have to lean towards it being sabotage.

 

[stevoc]

Indeed. This is the last comment I will make about that man before consigning him to the past; I remain absolutely convinced that he was trying to get sacked since the summer and was going to more and more desperate lengths to make it happen, including seeking defeats. I had a begrudging respect for him last season; now though, if I were at Costa I'd make his hazelnut mocha skinny latte with semi-skimmed milk.

fecking hell mate its only football no need for that.

 

[Revaulx]

Hello Mourinho ****, I'm sorry us enjoying to rub it in as a result of having to suffer your arrogant talk downs for the past two years is hurting you. Can dish it out but can't take it and going the "oh look how morally superior and grown up I am, I wish I had used this theory back then too when I thought I was so much better than you but nah I'm a hypocrite to the square root of RED ARMY TILL I DIE (redcafe thinking man's poster tm)" way from your high horse really is a sight to behold.

Mourinho OUT.

Sorry to quibble about another of your posts, but I don’t think there’s that close a link between the Jose **** and Top Red-ism.

The frequent bigging up of Jose’s undisputedly great achievements with his previous clubs is hardly Top Red behaviour, and just looked like an attempt to divert attention from his poor performance at United. I can only imagine they honestly believed it was his destiny to manage United, had placed huge emotional capital on him succeeding, and lashed out blaming everyone else when it became apparent it wasn’t working.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I could just as easily make a case for us oldies, who pine for the days of Best, Doc’s Red Army and the 90s Fergie’s 442, being the ones who hated Jose’s dull pragmatism and his fans being younger people who were seduced by his winning charm in his first spell at Chelsea. Or something.

Being one of the so-called older posters, I started following United in 1994/95.

I would gave Any manager my full backing if I think he deserved it.

I do not think Jose deserved this for constantly moaning, picking fights because his players weren't good enough and my pet hate throwing players under the bus in the media, which in my opinion should have been kept in house as when this happens, it let's our rivals know there are problems at the club.

 

[R'hllor]

This whole thing has nothing to do with "I told you so" nonsense.

 

[Moonred]

Too much of virtue signalling is usually a sign of empty act. Lot of people were wrong about Jose and most have realised by now. Some did 2 years ago, some did after sevilla, some did in the pre season etc etc. Some might never, either due to being rigid arse or just plain stupid.

 

[Kapardin]

I wanted Mourinho gone as much as the next guy, but there is a bit of revisionism with the supporters here.

When Jose arrived, we had been out of CL already for one season and missing it again would have been a disaster for us due to the loss of revenue, meaning much tighter budgets. He got us straight back to CL and a micky mouse trophy to go with it. We still proudly talk about winning more than rival clubs during our worst period and we must give credit to Jose for it.

His second season began with tremendous positivity with the signing of Lukaku and him immediately making an impact at the start of the season. We were dispatching smaller teams with ease for the first time since Fergie.

Having Jose certainly helped with signing of Pogba.

Of course. Even I wanted Jose in 2016 and was a fan till the Sevilla post match presser.

Nobody denies whatever good Jose did. But it is too little for his status as the most highly paid manager in the world. And we would probably feel more grateful if he hadn't put himself above the club and deliberately tried to sabotage us with the Herrera-McTominay-Matic at CB experiments.

His implosion was quite gradual. Started off in 2016 saying he had turned over a new leaf and seemed like Mr Nice Guy to everyone. Then he became a bit more dour when the new contract was given -- this was likely because he was incensed at Pep winning the league in style while nobody gave a hoot about our 2nd place as they all felt our football was dreadful. This was the point he started bigging himself up over the club with comments like football heritage etc., I think he felt under-appreciated.

Then Woodward denied him signings and he forsook all pretense of diplomacy to go full nuclear like his 15/16 self, which accelerated his sacking.

 

[E-mal]

I also listened to this.

Don't you think there is an element of truth in this?

The players stopped playing for the manager, no?

The Chelsea players done it under Mourinho previously, the Leicester players done it to Ranieri.

Our players workrate and commitment to the club more or less was non existent under Jose towards the end. A change was needed.

Ultimately, it is the managers job to motivate the players and the buck stops there. But you cannot say any of our players have been putting 100% effort in under Jose. In that regard, Saunders is correct.

Jose has his faults, but the players are responsible for they're own workrate and pride in playing for this club

You are relentless
The bulk stops with the manager. He treated them like shit in the media, himself disrespected the club and never wanted to be here after the summer.

 

[Jim Beam]

Well seeing as I can't convince you otherwise, feast on the following...

Brilliant.

Now post your remarks about Lindelof being a product of "human trafficking" and not a football player. While you at it, also post your full-blown appreciation for Jose who is a natural winner and born for this club while shitting on Fergie's last years calling him out for squeezing the last bit of United in chase for personal glory leaving us in disarray (and not because he was age 71 at the time and didn't want to have the same end as Jock Stein giving few last years too his wife). Also, mentioning he did more damage than any of his successors and something which Jose will put right. I don't mind you changing your opinion and realizing you were wrong btw. (absolutely nothing against that, quite contrary). Most of us were terribly wrong, but the bit about Fergie is to this day embarrassing imo.

I would tell you to get off your high horse, but since it is impossible for you to do that, go on with it. But do tell the full story at least.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Moyes and Van Gaal spent money too and it could be argued that the Premier League is more competitive during Jose's time too.

Jose has been the best post Fergie manager by far - but the bar was fecking low.

Grateful he brought us trophies and European football again - but I do think Jose has a borderline personality disorder and his erractic mood and behaviour underminded his great football knowledge.

I hope he takes a few years out and then returns to the game with an acknowledgement of what parts of his approach need updating.

Like him or loath him, he is a giant of world football and the game needs these big characters.

People here complain everyday Guardiola outspending everyone else in the league to buy success, judging on similar standard, you can’t really defend Mourinho outspending Moyes and LVG to buy more success here.

LVG did win the FA cup too. Your “best by far” verdict on Mourinho is quite abit exaggerated.

In Mourinho 2.5 years here, out of 3 attempts, he failed to finished top 4 twice (assume this year finishing top 4 is highly unlikely before his sack). this is just, similar to Moyes and LVG.

Success

Moyes
Years in charge: 1 yr
~30m spent
League: 7th
Won: Charity Shield

LVG
Years in charge: 2 yrs
~200m spent
League: 4th, 5th
Won: FA Cup

Mourinho
Years in charge: 2.5 yrs
~400m spent
League: 6th, 2nd, (6th)
Won: UEFA Cup, League Cup, Charity Shield

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

It was only after he'd been sacked that I realised just how much he'd drained the joy and fun out of watching Utd.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Not too sure how we won the last two games without Harry Maguire

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Not too sure how we won the last two games without Harry Maguire

He wanted us to spend fecking £75m on Harry Maguire!

 

[sunama]

...a lot of stuff which must've taken at least an hour to put together...

My friend, you shouldn't take this forum so seriously.
Spending so much time and effort to win an argument, with some random stranger on the internet, just is not worth it. Trust me (been there, done that).

 

[sunama]

LVG did win the FA cup too. Your “best by far” verdict on Mourinho is quite abit exaggerated.

Jose got the League Cup, Europa League Cup and 2nd place in the league (with 1st place going to a team which broke several league records).
LVG got FA Cup.

I'd say Jose was, by far, the most successful manager.

 

[yfoFC]

I think k he has permanently divided the fans. Madrid fans are still divided to this day.

I'm just beginning to think same myself, the chasm just seems too wide to be closed now

 

[Nanotron]

Have you actually any evidence to back this up? That the hardcore minority of Jose enthusiasts were/are any older than the majority who ranged from septics to hardcore outers?

I could just as easily make a case for us oldies, who pine for the days of Best, Doc’s Red Army and the 90s Fergie’s 442, being the ones who hated Jose’s dull pragmatism and his fans being younger people who were seduced by his winning charm in his first spell at Chelsea. Or something.

Maybe he thinks it was the older ones because it was the same older ones who wanted fergie gone at that time. So now they are trying to make up for that mistake in thier judgement. The only problem being is they threw all their logic out the window in their quest for absolvment.

 

[Cloud7]

Not too sure how we won the last two games without Harry Maguire

Forget that, I don’t understand how we were able to score goals without needing to bring Felliani off the bench. I thought that was the only thing our players were capable of.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Jose got the League Cup, Europa League Cup and 2nd place in the league (with 1st place going to a team which broke several league records).
LVG got FA Cup.

I'd say Jose was, by far, the most successful manager.

No one cares the Charity shield (Moyes won it too) and many big clubs field youngsters and reserve for league cup.

2nd place and UEFA Cup is not bad, but with the amount he spent is more or less expected. He end up 6th place twice though, after all the money he spent, is simply unacceptable.

By far most successful, what a joke.

 

[Craig Ward]

You are relentless
The bulk stops with the manager. He treated them like shit in the media, himself disrespected the club and never wanted to be here after the summer.

I acknowledged it is ultimately the managers responsibility.

Players have to take ownership of they're own application also.

Mourinho had his faults, he was a poor appointment he was always going to turn our club into a drama and kick up a fuss, its what he does.

Players not putting any effort in, regardless of the manager situation does bother me

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I think k he has permanently divided the fans. Madrid fans are still divided to this day.

Nah, in Madrid he took on an almost impossible task: to overthrow one of the greatest teams in the history of the sport. It was always going to be a war of attrition mostly because, in terms of style, he will never be able to match Guardiola. In the end, the whole experience left its scars on him and made him disgustingly set in his ways (something that IMHO cost him a CL title and caused a lot of his recent failings). But at the peak of his effort, when he managed Real Madrid, he pushed his team to 100 points and 121 goals (both of them records in La Liga) with plenty of good moments in the way like Bale's wonder goal in the 2011 Cup Final and the players throwing him up in the air in celebration after the final or securing the 11/12 title in Barcelona etc.

In this sense, there are things to remember from his time in Madrid, if you're a RM fan. Don't forget that they were in a dire state when he took the job with the team not having progressed to the CL quarters for 5 straight seasons. So, there's still some appreciation for his work there by some RM fans. This was never the case at United. He never reached any of his previous heights. Not only that, but he started bitching about his squad like a rich kid who puts on a frown because he's been told that he will travel first class instead of taking the private plane.

I was all for us getting the Mourinho who left the security of Milan in order to compete with Pep on a weekly basis. I believed that his grit, his arrogance and his desire to cross first the finish line was what the team needed to wake up after the ditherer and the philosopher and i was willing to put up with his antics. But i have no problem admitting that we got a caricature of that Mourinho. Now, defend what exactly? Finishing second and then plummeting into a midtable status? The Europa League? His only argument is that he wasn't backed in the market and that the squad can't compete for the highest prizes. The same squad he shaped after two and a half seasons at the club... No, he failed miserably at United judging by the standards i imagine he wants to set for himself. He is a trophy counter, after all, ain't he? All that i see here is some people trying to save face on the internet or, on the other hand, being desperate to tell everyone else "i told you so". Like anybody fecking cares... In the end, we'll be left with a few odd ones who will continue to believe that he was "sabotaged" by the players and they will use any truth there might be in this just to put their finger on it and treat it like the sole reason of his failure. Just as we have those who still believe that LvG was building towards... something or that Moyes should have gotten more time to get things right.

 

[Rolaholic]

Yeah I’m going to go with this. The people who remained loyal to Mourinho were extremely condescending, vitriolic and insulting to people who thought that Mourinho wasn’t right for United.

Pretty much,that's why I couldnt care less about the hypocrisy in getting on their moral high horse all of a sudden now that their man has been relegated to the dustbin of history.

We all know who was spewing venom at fellow fans and players of the club all for wanting the best for the club in favor of the most toxic and polarizing man to ever come through Carringtons doors,they can miss me with the holier than thou spiel now

 

[Robbie Boy]

Pretty much,that's why I couldnt care less about the hypocrisy in getting on their moral high horse all of a sudden now that their man has been relegated to the dustbin of history.

We all know who was spewing venom at fellow fans and players of the club all for wanting the best for the club in favor of the most toxic and polarizing man to ever come through Carringtons doors,they can miss me with the holier than thou spiel now

Loves and hugs for this post.

 

[ash_86]

I think k he has permanently divided the fans. Madrid fans are still divided to this day.

Why do you think so? I believed in Jose for a while and then realized he wasn't getting the job done and was happy he got fired. Now we have Ole and i couldn't be happier. Do you think people here arn't happy with the way we're performing currently? All i have seen is positive response from everyone in the caf past 2 match days.

 

[RedCurry]

Of course. Even I wanted Jose in 2016 and was a fan till the Sevilla post match presser.

Nobody denies whatever good Jose did. But it is too little for his status as the most highly paid manager in the world. And we would probably feel more grateful if he hadn't put himself above the club and deliberately tried to sabotage us with the Herrera-McTominay-Matic at CB experiments.

His implosion was quite gradual. Started off in 2016 saying he had turned over a new leaf and seemed like Mr Nice Guy to everyone. Then he became a bit more dour when the new contract was given -- this was likely because he was incensed at Pep winning the league in style while nobody gave a hoot about our 2nd place as they all felt our football was dreadful. This was the point he started bigging himself up over the club with comments like football heritage etc., I think he felt under-appreciated.

Then Woodward denied him signings and he forsook all pretense of diplomacy to go full nuclear like his 15/16 self, which accelerated his sacking.

No one is going to change their personality at the age of 55. Like you and most fans, the implosion after the Sevilla game did it for me and I couldn't stand anything he said after that day. We played some of the worst football I've ever seen at the start of this season. He was waiting for the sack and it was the right decision to let him go.

The hindsight debate on the decision to hire Jose are full of bias, however. At the time, he was the best man available for the job. It was the most difficult job in football. Imagine getting someone less proven while City hired Pep. Mourinho, Pogba, Zlatan coming to United at the same time at least injected some positivity in the fans. I look back and think it obviously could be better, but it could be far worse had we not hired Mourinho.

We waited six months too long to sack him and now we are back to consolidation phase.

 

[CA_vampire]

I think Pep broke Mourinho.

Mourinho really believed that he is "the special one". Losing to Pep in Spain was hard on him. But losing again in Manchester was unbearable. Mourinho probably believed that he has zero probabilities to catch City, since they have a better squad and they spend more money. Also, they play attacking football and that's not Mourinho's style, so that's an additional loss for him. So... what were his prospects? Staying at United would mean that he'd be losing to Pep again and again. That broke him down. He couldn't find a way out. So, he took the money and run. Makes sense.

 

[youmeletsfly]

I will put it simple, we hired a manager that was a winner in 2010 and since then he was on the decline. It was not going to turn good, not in a million years.

I respected the man 10 years ago, he was aggressive, he took the media on his back so his players could cool off. But now, man I'm disgusted, I don;t understand it.

- he fecked his own players in the media
- tried to turn the media on his best player just because he was bigger than him
- played some outrageous tactics
- took a shit on the united legacy in a few of his pressers (meh, in some situations he was kinda right, but he could've been a bit more elegant)
- started a bit of a war with his boss
- moaned continuously that we need to invest and that other teams are investing. After spending almost half a fecking billion on players that he could't fecking coach.

I guess this is the most toxic management spell I've ever seen in a football club. It was absolutely appalling.

What's sad that there are people still defending the guy, that's a bit odd.

 

[Raees]

Brilliant.

Now post your remarks about Lindelof being a product of "human trafficking" and not a football player. While you at it, also post your full-blown appreciation for Jose who is a natural winner and born for this club while shitting on Fergie's last years calling him out for squeezing the last bit of United in chase for personal glory leaving us in disarray (and not because he was age 71 at the time and didn't want to have the same end as Jock Stein giving few last years too his wife). Also, mentioning he did more damage than any of his successors and something which Jose will put right. I don't mind you changing your opinion and realizing you were wrong btw. (absolutely nothing against that, quite contrary). Most of us were terribly wrong, but the bit about Fergie is to this day embarrassing imo.

I would tell you to get off your high horse, but since it is impossible for you to do that, go on with it. But do tell the full story at least.

Must have really touched this acolytes nerve for that to be used against me. You stated that Jose will be accused of human trafficking at this rate and I said - that can be the only explanation for signing Lindelof. Clearly it was in jest and not in any way serious.

As for your comments about my appreciation of Jose - firstly let me state once and for all - I wanted Pep and Klopp over him when Fergie left and that can be proven both by posts/votes on polls during that time. Secondly - I did appreciate Jose and I still do rank him amongst the greatest managers the game has ever seen... I fell for his bullshit that United was a special club to him, and he would appreciate having full control of transfers etc and that he was unfortunate to work under guys like Roman and a fickle club like Real Madrid. Thirdly if a manager does come to your club and is appointed despite it not being your first choice, are you not meant to believe in them and give them the benefit of the doubt - especially when his track record is one of success?

There is nothing wrong with being wrong - but IMO supporting a manager who was not my first choice and then afterwards changing my mind and withdrawing my support when I realised he is officially batshit crazy and not great as he once was is a far more reasonable approach than dwelling in the managers rectum until you can't dig any further.

Now as to the point about Fergie, he was a great man and the best manager of all time but there is no doubt that those last few years were about him finishing on a high and he focused on the short term future of the club by maximising what he could out of that side (after all he's given to the club - he can be forgiven for that). He knew he was coming to the end of his tenure and he had no more energy to give to the long term future of the club compared to him at his prime where he could oversee the here, future all at the same time. The lack of transfer funds must have also held him back a great degree but I do think Fergie in his prime would have been able to maximise the restricted budget much better. It did have a knock on effect on the post Fergie period because it led to Moyes inheriting a squad in need of a rebuild (well outside his skills to expect him to rebuild the club and create a new title-winning side) and then of course we had guys like LVG/Mourinho who have through their ineptitude prolonged this transitional period longer than it needed to be.

 

[Raees]

My friend, you shouldn't take this forum so seriously.
Spending so much time and effort to win an argument, with some random stranger on the internet, just is not worth it. Trust me (been there, done that).

In all fairness it doesn't take that much effort to win an argument on the Caf during the Mourinho period. Many great posters, likes of Pexbo for example were not quite themselves during that period out of loyalty to the manager. It was like the anti-enlightenment period.

 

[Posh Red]

Jose got the League Cup, Europa League Cup and 2nd place in the league (with 1st place going to a team which broke several league records).
LVG got FA Cup.

I'd say Jose was, by far, the most successful manager.

He also made a few good signings that we will hopefully benefit from moving forward. Pogba for a start. I'm not a Mourinho fan but I think overall our recruitment improved for the most part under him (granted he may have undone some of his good work if he'd have stayed for any longer!)

 

[Revaulx]

Maybe he thinks it was the older ones because it was the same older ones who wanted fergie gone at that time. So now they are trying to make up for that mistake in thier judgement. The only problem being is they threw all their logic out the window in their quest for absolvment.

Fair enough. I have to confess I went through a period of being highly sceptical about Fergie; the apparent failure to build on the obvious improvements he'd brought about in his first year and a half was desperately frustrating. He always said the right things though, and gave the impression that he was working towards a long term vision. After eighteen months of Jose it was obvious that there was no vision, and it wasn't happening in the short term either.

 

[Revaulx]

Being one of the so-called older posters, I started following United in 1994/95.

I would gave Any manager my full backing if I think he deserved it.

I do not think Jose deserved this for constantly moaning, picking fights because his players weren't good enough and my pet hate throwing players under the bus in the media, which in my opinion should have been kept in house as when this happens, it let's our rivals know there are problems at the club.

You're nubbut a young johnny-come-lately whippersnapper

Doesn't stop you being right though...

 

[JPRouve]

You are relentless
The bulk stops with the manager. He treated them like shit in the media, himself disrespected the club and never wanted to be here after the summer.

Lukaku misread that memo.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

You're nubbut a young johnny-come-lately whippersnapper

Doesn't stop you being right though...