You can never say that about Mourinho.
It has actually reached a point where people now agree with Carragher's bollocks. I bet it wouldn't be so if it does not suit the agenda.
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Mourinho or Pogba?
- Thread starter VP89
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It has actually reached a point where people now agree with Carragher's bollocks. I bet it wouldn't be so if it does not suit the agenda.
They both need to go. Pogba in January and Mou once we get a proper manager capable of developing talent i.e. not Zidane.
Agree 100% with him.
Pogba just seems to have such a self-absorbed, immature personality; Ibra was even more breathtakingly arrogant but underneath that he had the self-awareness and professionalism to underpin it that Pogba can only dream of.
Treat the cancer, not the sores because the sores will keep on coming.
The truth is even if we cut out Pogba and keep Mourinho, it would make us worse on the pitch and the toxicity will be no better.
It has reached a point where there won't be any shift for the betterment under Mourinho and from this point, it can only get worse. It won't be long before he picks up fights with Pogba's replacement, the other players, the fans, the hierachy above him etc - it is in his DNA. We could trust him to resolve this, but history proves that this can only go one way, and that is the negative way. Soon, he would be picking up fights with his staff too. Remember Eva Caneiro? It was disgraceful.
A decent manager that can refer to his past successes, but he's nothing but a dinosaur right now and an awful personality. When he's not winning, he creates an uber-toxic environment. He tries to create a us vs the world mentality; makeout himself and his team the underdogs and blame everyone but himself. Those things can only work at a not so big club where he's not really expected to do much.
Anybody that think Pogba has not done much for this club could say the same for Mourinho too. He has said far worse but has somehow managed to get away with them.
Pogba have been nothing but loyal and professional in his football career and those closest to him and actually know him sing his praises - contrast that to Jose Mourinho especially when he's not winning.
It amazes me how much support Mourinho still gets from the fanbase.
The only way this can be resolved is to remove the root of all this toxicity, and that is Jose Mourinho.
The truth is even if we cut out Pogba and keep Mourinho, it would make us worse on the pitch and the toxicity will be no better.
It has reached a point where there won't be any shift for the betterment under Mourinho and from this point, it can only get worse. It won't be long before he picks up fights with Pogba's replacement, the other players, the fans, the hierachy above him etc - it is in his DNA. We could trust him to resolve this, but history proves that this can only go one way, and that is the negative way. Soon, he would be picking up fights with his staff too. Remember Eva Caneiro? It was disgraceful.
A decent manager that can refer to his past successes, but he's nothing but a dinosaur right now and an awful personality. When he's not winning, he creates an uber-toxic environment. He tries to create a us vs the world mentality; makeout himself and his team the underdogs and blame everyone but himself. Those things can only work at a not so big club where he's not really expected to do much.
Anybody that think Pogba has not done much for this club could say the same for Mourinho too. He has said far worse but has somehow managed to get away with them.
Pogba have been nothing but loyal and professional in his football career and those closest to him and actually know him sing his praises - contrast that to Jose Mourinho especially when he's not winning.
It amazes me how much support Mourinho still gets from the fanbase.
The only way this can be resolved is to remove the root of all this toxicity, and that is Jose Mourinho.
Whilst I am in the "we have to back the manager" (or descend into anarchy or worse - Chelsea) camp, I can't help but think they're both equally at fault.
Even if we did get rid of Pogba - which is the correct thing to do if that's what the manager wants - does Mourinho really deserve that backing? The football is dire. There's been no discernible improvement over 3 years in the style. Yes, results are better than Moyes and LvG but that's not asking much. This season is pretty much already over in terms of the league. We might get an FA Cup. That's not why Jose was hired though. He hasn't improved anyone except Fellaini, who shouldn't even be here.
We can't sack him mid-season, unless things REALLY deteriorate like his 2nd Chelsea stint but I'd be inclined to get rid of him at the end of the season and if Pogba wants to go as well, then he can feck off too.
It's not a real world solution but if we could loan Pogba out in January that might work for all parties.
It's a shit situation all around
Even if we did get rid of Pogba - which is the correct thing to do if that's what the manager wants - does Mourinho really deserve that backing? The football is dire. There's been no discernible improvement over 3 years in the style. Yes, results are better than Moyes and LvG but that's not asking much. This season is pretty much already over in terms of the league. We might get an FA Cup. That's not why Jose was hired though. He hasn't improved anyone except Fellaini, who shouldn't even be here.
We can't sack him mid-season, unless things REALLY deteriorate like his 2nd Chelsea stint but I'd be inclined to get rid of him at the end of the season and if Pogba wants to go as well, then he can feck off too.
It's not a real world solution but if we could loan Pogba out in January that might work for all parties.
It's a shit situation all around
The casual racism against Pogba never seems to stop. Some of you lot really need some introspection.
Pogba will go, Mourinho will hang about a bit longer to spread his toxic nonsense, then he'll go, and when he does, it'll be at the most inopportune time for us and it'll feck up the season.
get rid of one of the best (albeit flawed) midfielders in the world or a manager who most of the forum want gone anyway who has been having us play like shit for the last 2 years?
tough choice
tough choice
Can't we sack them both.
Pogba needs to be disciplined for questioning the managers approach in public and he should be big enough and bold enough to understand the issues he has caused by what he has said. What he meant by his comments is always up for debate but at the end of thr day, whether you want Mourinho or not what we should want is a group of players that work hard for the team, the manager, the club and the supporters. If the manager gets it wrong then he will face the music eventually, but the players need to do their jobs and get on with it on the pitch above all.
We all seen Pogba was at fault for the equaliser against Wolves, so all the other players will have seen it too. We all heard his comments about our approach, so all the other players heard it too, which you could argue has he questioned his own teammates' desire to attack? Another debate I guess. But we've also seen that footage of him and Mourinho, so everyone at the club will have seen it too. What do people in and around the club make of it all. Pogba should shut his mouth, coming to training and train to win, get on the pitch and do his talking. I personally am getting fed up with him off the pitch. Just get on the pitch and show us why the club paid £90million for you ffs.
We all seen Pogba was at fault for the equaliser against Wolves, so all the other players will have seen it too. We all heard his comments about our approach, so all the other players heard it too, which you could argue has he questioned his own teammates' desire to attack? Another debate I guess. But we've also seen that footage of him and Mourinho, so everyone at the club will have seen it too. What do people in and around the club make of it all. Pogba should shut his mouth, coming to training and train to win, get on the pitch and do his talking. I personally am getting fed up with him off the pitch. Just get on the pitch and show us why the club paid £90million for you ffs.
Managers are not easily replaceable as proven by the years since SAF. Managers like you say are in charge, hence, player power cannot be tolerated and have to be clamped down. Manager vs player should always favor manager if we don’t want to set an untenable environment for the current manager and potential future managers. It is especially the case here where this player is not even good enough to justify unseating a serial winner of a manager. This player may have a lot of social media followers but the speaking on the pitch hasn’t been where it needs to be.
Has Mourinho justified his 400 million spending in the two and a bit seasons he's been here? Not by a longshot. And last season is the first time he didn't win anything in his second season as a manager, and now we are getting outplayed by promotion and league one team. This is 100% the most important point.
Crazy mental gymnastics. Pogba has been our best player this season.
And there's a difference between playing defensive and just failing to make the team play cohesive football. The latter is something we're suffering from right now. That wasn't always the case for Mourinho in the past despite his boring approach.
Correct, managers are not easily replaceable when they're the right manager for the club. You can't just apply that to every manager though. Was Moyes easily replaceable?
Mou is clearly not that manager. He was in the past, but he's not for United.
Speaks volumes for me that most rival fans are backing Mourinho in this and want us to sell Pogba.
Most of these fans despise Mourinho.
Most of these fans despise Mourinho.
People saying Carragher's taking about Pogba to get him out of the club. Here what dear Gary Neville says
So you all now gonna say Neville doesn't care for the club anymore? Wake the feck up. Don't let your hate for Jose blind your eyes on what Pogba is doing.
So you all now gonna say Neville doesn't care for the club anymore? Wake the feck up. Don't let your hate for Jose blind your eyes on what Pogba is doing.
Does it though ? Pogba has never been rated by rival fans ever since we got him. Thy always labelled him overrated and overpriced. In fact, I actually think only us and French fans are the ones who rate him that highly, otherwise, most outside fans recognize him as overrated, good but not as good as United and French fans think him to be.
Depends on what you look for in attack minded midfielder. I wouldn't rate Kante on his ability to attack.
Anyways in Premier league this season,
- Most goals by a CM
- Most dribbles attempted and completed by a CM
- Won 5th most aerial duels by a CM
- Third most passes by a CM
- Most accurate Long passes by a CM
- 6th most accurate Short passes by a CM
- 5th most chances created by a CM (2nd, 3rd, 4th are the players who takes set pieces, so from open play he is 2nd or 3rd)
- Most fouled player among CMs
- 7th in clearances by a CM
For just ManUtd it will be even more one sided. Most goals, assists, passes, dribbles, chances created.
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My opinion of this has not changed, the media are intent on creating rift between our manager and star player and are intent on forcing us to get rid of both.
There’s no better way to sell papers and get clicks than presenting United as in crisis, opposition fans love it, United fans will read it out of fear so it’s a win win. TalkSPORT are a discgrace though, every time I’ve listened over the past 6 days and has been almost exclusively about Mourinho and Pogba and asking which we should get rid of. Why is it assumed we have to get rid of either? One of the best managers in the world and the best midfielder in the world are what we need at the club.
FWIW we will not get a better midfielder at this club in terms of ability than Pogba any time soon. He’s out best player by far and you could see just how terrible our midfield was without him against Derby the other night. We cannot afford to lose Pogba, not in this market where any other club would value a player of that ability at £250m. There are frankly no players available capable of replacing his quality in my opinion.
I hope this can all be resolved/that it has merely been blown up by the media which I’m certain it has, just like the ‘debacles’, just like the supposed rifts with shaw, rashford, martial etc. Notice how it’s never our crap players that José is supposedly falling out with, why aren’t they going big on what he said about jones? It’s becuase the medias goal is to hurt the club, and how better than to unsettle our best players and manager? that’s what every oppo fan wants to read in this saturated world for football news..
There’s no better way to sell papers and get clicks than presenting United as in crisis, opposition fans love it, United fans will read it out of fear so it’s a win win. TalkSPORT are a discgrace though, every time I’ve listened over the past 6 days and has been almost exclusively about Mourinho and Pogba and asking which we should get rid of. Why is it assumed we have to get rid of either? One of the best managers in the world and the best midfielder in the world are what we need at the club.
FWIW we will not get a better midfielder at this club in terms of ability than Pogba any time soon. He’s out best player by far and you could see just how terrible our midfield was without him against Derby the other night. We cannot afford to lose Pogba, not in this market where any other club would value a player of that ability at £250m. There are frankly no players available capable of replacing his quality in my opinion.
I hope this can all be resolved/that it has merely been blown up by the media which I’m certain it has, just like the ‘debacles’, just like the supposed rifts with shaw, rashford, martial etc. Notice how it’s never our crap players that José is supposedly falling out with, why aren’t they going big on what he said about jones? It’s becuase the medias goal is to hurt the club, and how better than to unsettle our best players and manager? that’s what every oppo fan wants to read in this saturated world for football news..
The media want him out of United, they know that we are basically finished with this current squad minus Pogba. He’s been fantastic so far this season. No wonder the likes of Souness and Carragher are getting behind it.
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None actually, after this season.
List of players i'd pick above Mourinho:
De Gea, Bailly, Smalling, Shaw, Pogba, Pereira, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku, Sanchez.
Woody kick him out already. Just get a new cigar sponsor to pay it off.
De Gea, Bailly, Smalling, Shaw, Pogba, Pereira, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku, Sanchez.
Woody kick him out already. Just get a new cigar sponsor to pay it off.
Mourinho has to go for me, him being there will only get worse.
The guy will start a fight with anyone, don't forget he fell out with the Chelsea team and caused a scene with his own physio.
The guy will start a fight with anyone, don't forget he fell out with the Chelsea team and caused a scene with his own physio.
Gary's 100% right. Pogba is talented as feck but he does seem to be very immature and has been disruptive lately. Doesn't matter if Jose is here next season or not for me if Pogba wants to leave United then sell him.
You don't get rid of your best player for a manager that can't even get the players to play.
If it was Klopp, Poch or Pep against any of their top players, then the answer is obvious. But this is Mourinho.
He's done just as much as Pogba in terms of trophies, league positions etc - whilst being the actual manager. We seem to be heading towards doom with him at the helm and everything about the club is negative at the moment.
You would trust the club that is referred to as the biggest sports club in the world to make the right decision here.
If it was Klopp, Poch or Pep against any of their top players, then the answer is obvious. But this is Mourinho.
He's done just as much as Pogba in terms of trophies, league positions etc - whilst being the actual manager. We seem to be heading towards doom with him at the helm and everything about the club is negative at the moment.
You would trust the club that is referred to as the biggest sports club in the world to make the right decision here.
I prefer Pogba. Morihno's era is over.
I would agree with you mostly if I thought the club were actually backing Mourinho, but I don't, and I mean this on all sides. The fans here have never really been in full support of him due to his percieved style of play ( despite the fact that personnel is largely responsible for this imo). I don't blame them as the united have not played consistently exciting football for many years, and they would like to see a return to that. This lack of support is the reason Mourinho gets consistent stick from the Mourinho despite good results, and is the reason despite finishing second, our summer was completely toxic. If the fans only see him as a short term fix or never wanted him at all, then whats the point of keeping him.
Secondly, the board no longer seem to be fond of Jose, and in truth this match was not as made in heaven as I first assumed. I initially thought Jose at a club like ours in which the board fully backed the managers would be able to turn united around. But poor personnel clearances, bad transfers ( particularly in defence), and off field issues have made me think otherwise. United is a conservative club that keeps things in house. Jose has been the opposite of that since his arrival, constantly in the news for the wrong reasons. In addition he made the fateful mistake of criticizing a supportive board, and the consequences of those actions have been evident this season already. The biggest thing however is the plan the club has moving forward. There is a plan to hire someone to deal more effectively with recruitment and partner the manager in bringing players in. Its a new structure, and I feel the club would want to start afresh with a manager more in tune with the style and image of the club. I would sell Pogba and sack Jose to achieve these things. Jose should not be worried, his management style, style of play and personality would still be appreciated at other clubs in Europe, particularly Inter. So both parties can leave with no ill feelings, while moving forward.
Hey if Pogba goes it will further solidify Mourinho's position in the club and we can look forward to a few more years of this exciting football and his classy behaviour off the pitch.
At least then Pogba will be in no immediate danger of being fined so we will at least get to hear what truly conspired between the 2 and get some saucy stuff for Jamie Carragher, who's wisdom these days has turned many a UTD fan to heed and further spread his word.
At least then Pogba will be in no immediate danger of being fined so we will at least get to hear what truly conspired between the 2 and get some saucy stuff for Jamie Carragher, who's wisdom these days has turned many a UTD fan to heed and further spread his word.
Yep, same when we were hoping for Rodgers and Hodgson to stay forever in Liverpool because bar that one season under Irish Klopp, they were dreadful.
If Pogba 'really' wants to leave, then there is not point in keeping him. It would be a disaster to get rid of him without much fight though, just because of Mourinho.
He didn't even sign Pogba it was a Woody signing.
Liverpoolfication is complete. Player is a board signing as and when needed.
Agreed. I really don't see how anyone can suggest Mourinho cares. Forget the hotel stuff - the way he slagged the club off after Sevilla was embarrassing.
If we had a manager we could get behind I'd back him 100%. But to be honest I think Pogba will be more valuable to us in the long-term.
Pogba.
He is bigger than the manager, the management and any other player. He is bigger than the club and what it stands for.
Pogba brings in more insta likes than Jose or anyone of us can dream of. He can dab like no other and brings so much beautiful attention to our club...
Not only is he world champion but a social media champion too!
Pogba for player-manger. Lingard as assistant coach and Pobga's biggest fan and cheerleader Mino Raiola as football director
He is bigger than the manager, the management and any other player. He is bigger than the club and what it stands for.
Pogba brings in more insta likes than Jose or anyone of us can dream of. He can dab like no other and brings so much beautiful attention to our club...
Not only is he world champion but a social media champion too!
Pogba for player-manger. Lingard as assistant coach and Pobga's biggest fan and cheerleader Mino Raiola as football director
Just get rid of both. Sick of it all now.
My assumption is people only support Jose as that's what we did in the past when SAF was in charge. People forget that SAF was GOAT, so following that principle blindly will leads us nowhere. We should pick and choose what's best for the club. Manager>player always, doesn't work these days. Best example is Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea and few more successful clubs in last 5-10 years.
Jose cares about Jose, always has, always will. If anyone believes they're bigger than the club, it's him, and he's shown it time and time again.
Great post.
Him and his cnut of an agent have disrespected United too much for my liking. I get that his relationship with Jose is bad and he's probably the main reason why he wants to leave but I just don't like the way he's gone about it. I would love for Pogba to stay at United because of his ability on the field but the off field issues can't be ignored. If he wants to go then let him go at a good price.
Because we are playing dull football and the season is over in September. We won't achieve anything with Jose!
I'm from Mexico and in the poll I don't get who is who, so... The board will probably get rid of them both at the same time, because if they sack Mou and keep Pogba, they will be sending the wrong message where a player is more important than a coach, and it they sell Pogba the time of Mou in the team is up! I'm sure we won't even get through the group stage in Champions League. So we have to find us a new manager and a new world class player who can lead us to success.