It's still an unnecessarily patronising way to illustrate a point.Not that I want to get involved in this, but I think he's trying to illustrate that Mourinho opening with a halfhearted Scholes was a good player only to proceed to say that he's a shite pundit who's jealous of Pogba's paycheck doesnt really classify as praising Scholes, since the focus is purely on the latter, negative, part.
I could be wrong though
Mourinho's comments on Scholes
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He didn't. Jose was correct in saying Scholes as a player was amazing but as a pundit he is average.
He shouldn't have said about making money, that's the only part he shouldn't have said, apart from that he is spot on.
The bloke on hosting on BT mentioned that there would be people watching that would have off days at work and that eventually they might end up resenting their boss and just down tools, something along those lines anyway. Martin Keown mentioned something about how much theyre paid and Scholes also chimed in in agreeance. Im remembering this from having seen it once but it was along those lines. Scholes didnt come head on and question their wages or right to them, but it was definitely part of the overall criticism bit. If I were a current player at the club I wouldnt be happy about it being part of any criticism for my performace, which lets be honest, Scholes is entitled to have an opinion on / comment on, but they dont have a right to criticise the players effort, thats not right. No one here would be happy if people questioned their credibility like that.
How does he becoming a pundit affect the greatness of his legacy?
Personally thought that bit undermined scholes argument as was a bit below the belt and pretty disrespectful to a professional who doesn't exactly look out of shape and has had a recent injury followed by a ban. Would have thought that as an ex pro scholes would be inclined to explain and perceived lack of fitness by these things rather than saying he isn't looking after himself.
Well on this site people only question the player's effort every single day.
Let's be honest guys. Only for the fact that he is our manager does he get any leeway. Other than that he is a c8ut of the highest order. Despicable man who is a bad loser. Cant take criticism throws his toys out the pram. I watched that Scholes interview on BT and he didnt say anything that wasnt blindly obvious to the rest of us.
So you think pogba isn't looking after himself?
Scholes was critical of the way Mourinho is using Pogba, and of Pogba's ability to use his skills in a different role. I thought that it was fair comment, I'm not sure that I agree though. Pre-injury Pogba/Matic looked like a fine combination and the loss of Carrick, an out of form Herrera has limited our options and what sounds good and what's possible aren't always the same thing - we'd all like Pirlo in the equation.
However Scholes also wandered into that vague territory of fitness and training - which plays a little too much into the current media narrative of lazy players and Mourinho losing the dressing room. Easy enough to ignore from an overweight sports writer or an old opponent - taken more seriously coming from one of our own (particularly as people imagine them having a direct line into the current squad)
Mourinho was asked about his reactions to the comments and he answered. Why wouldn't he answer? Why would he say anything other than Pogba was trying his best even if he wasn't always playing at his best? Why would he accept that Scholes knows better what's possible/best for our squad? Scholes has zero experience of balancing a first XI, or dealing with a squad where injuries/form limit the options.
As for the money thing, I don't think that was directly at Scholes in particular. Again, I think it's about the whole media narrative. High transfer fee, high wages equals high expectations. That's normal. But it's also normal for a manager to say that money shouldn't be used to criticise a player, or to create a false argument between the good old days and now.
However Scholes also wandered into that vague territory of fitness and training - which plays a little too much into the current media narrative of lazy players and Mourinho losing the dressing room. Easy enough to ignore from an overweight sports writer or an old opponent - taken more seriously coming from one of our own (particularly as people imagine them having a direct line into the current squad)
Mourinho was asked about his reactions to the comments and he answered. Why wouldn't he answer? Why would he say anything other than Pogba was trying his best even if he wasn't always playing at his best? Why would he accept that Scholes knows better what's possible/best for our squad? Scholes has zero experience of balancing a first XI, or dealing with a squad where injuries/form limit the options.
As for the money thing, I don't think that was directly at Scholes in particular. Again, I think it's about the whole media narrative. High transfer fee, high wages equals high expectations. That's normal. But it's also normal for a manager to say that money shouldn't be used to criticise a player, or to create a false argument between the good old days and now.
And people here were saying a lot of the same thing pre Everton match.
Same could be said about SAF, and many managers tbf. SAF would have been hated by people on here if he wasn't our manager, he was arrogant, hated to lose, would regularly get into the official's faces/bully them etc.
He is loved by all United fans because he was our cnut. It's tribalism, that's how it works.
Can't blame Jose for saying this. Imagine the kind of pressure he's under - fans, players, getting results, the media, referees and what not. Give him a break, he's bound to crack at some point. He's been driven into a corner and is standing up for himself.
Was the money comment not meant in relation to level of expectations? As in it's not fair on Pogba to judge him based on ridiculous levels of expectation that are related to his wages/transfer fee?
I've not seen video so not sure of context and I'm not taking clickbait tweets at face value.
Scholes comments about Pogba's fitness and training were bang out of line though I know that much, and he IS a shit pundit.
I've not seen video so not sure of context and I'm not taking clickbait tweets at face value.
Scholes comments about Pogba's fitness and training were bang out of line though I know that much, and he IS a shit pundit.
First with Wenger's comment about Henry and now this, it seems that the managers expect that the players turned pundits to be less critical of their ex-clubs. Basically the managers expect them to be like hese ex Liverpool players-pundits who are braindead and basically always look for weird angles to praise Liverpool. I'm glad that's not the case. What Scholes said about Pogba/Mourinho was echoed by quite a few of United fans.
Yeah, Mourinho is being an obnoxious dick as usual. But I imagine Scholes will be able to sleep at night so it's not much of a story. Hopefully at least Pogba feels grateful or something, so it's not just a totally pointless swipe at a basically irrelevant pundit.
That's what I thought he was trying to say.
Paul Scholes is more like a fan when he talks, and he's not great with his vocabulary. Jose is right, he's awful punditry. However, Mourinho would do well to deflect such questions.
Why should he take the criticism if he thinks it's wrong? If Mourinho thinks that Pogba is trying his best and training well, why shouldn't he reject that speculation? If he thinks we don't have an unused Pirlo in the squad waiting to be drafted into the first team, why should he think Scholes has better management skills than him?
Of course he gets leeway because he's our manager - what's wrong with that? Equally we only care what he says because he's our manager. Same as we only care what Scholes says because he used to play for us.
The way Scholes says it in the interview is actually that he wonders if Pogba is as fit as he was and wonders if he is training properly because he doesn't look like the player he knows he can be... but that he believes the real reason is because he isn't being used properly.
Well said
I don't think they expect them to be necessarily less critical. But If he feels scholes shouldnt suggest pogba doesn't look after himself, and like another poster pointed out, shouldn't be maims argument on the basis of pogba having a pirlo sitting behind him then he's entitled to respond, especially when asked directly about the comments.
Wondering if he isnt training properly is one of the few things a manager has an absolute right to hit back over.
Right on.
Scholes is my favourite player from my time watching United. He's a pundit now so fair game. Jose gave respect to the footballer but rubbished the pundit.
Back the shirt Scholesy!
Agree completely with both of these posts.
Yeah, wouldn't disagree that even mentioning fitness/training was maybe the wrong thing to do, but most of what Scholes said was largely accurate. I don't take issue with Mourinho hitting back either... I'd probably rather he ignored it because we played well yesterday and I'd rather the headlines were about that, but it doesn't bother me.
I think people look too much into this sort of thing.
If you attack Mourinho, you will get burned. Besides evil mourinho is better then depressed Mourinho, for me
I meant specific positive remarks about certain players and how he probably thinks they’ve improved under Mourinho. Never heard him talk about any player in that tone, but the opposite has obviously happened.
On the same page here. Thought Scholes was accurate in his footballing points, and entitled to speak. Shouldn't have said anything about fitness and this combined with a few jabs lately by scholes and rest of class of 92 prompted mourinho to react more than he might have,
My overall feeling though is that it's being reported and reacted to the way it is, is because it's mourinho and posters are allowing themselves to be offended by something that wouldn't bat an eyelid coming from somebody else.
If Mourinho is against his players getting criticism in the press he should stop criticizing his players in the press.
Does matter if you have 25 trophies, at this minute in time it doesn’t look like he will add to that. Sounds like an Arsenal fan, basking in past glory.
I think Scholes has every right to air his opinion, criticize the players and manager.....however, if he does that, then the players and manager equally have every right to have a go back at him.
In this case I don't think either party is particularly in the wrong, but just be grown ups about it and don't allow it to spiral into petty personal grudges.
In this case I don't think either party is particularly in the wrong, but just be grown ups about it and don't allow it to spiral into petty personal grudges.
I thought Jurgen Klopp was being petty and ridiculous when he made a similar line of attack at Gary Neville.
I was wondering why people cared so much until I read this.
Scholes will not be able to achieve 25% of Mou success as a coach. True.
But in other hand, Mou as a player will not be able to achieve even 1% of Scholes success.
Even Pogba as United player is nothing to be compared with Scholes.
If prime Scholes is in the current era, with the crazy transfer money, his fee will be higher than Pogba. This is the man respected by most of best players in his generation. Zidane, Xavi, etc.
He played in United midfield, he faced not just the big boys of EPL but all the best clubs possible in the world. Scholes means Goals. That was his tag line when he was in the same age of Pogba. He knows the game, even as the pundit.
Apologize my comments, Mod. Find it strange, so many here blatantly defend Mou comment towards Scholes.
If Mou can bring us EPL title, he can spit it what he likes. But the fact, he still can not do it.
But in other hand, Mou as a player will not be able to achieve even 1% of Scholes success.
Even Pogba as United player is nothing to be compared with Scholes.
If prime Scholes is in the current era, with the crazy transfer money, his fee will be higher than Pogba. This is the man respected by most of best players in his generation. Zidane, Xavi, etc.
He played in United midfield, he faced not just the big boys of EPL but all the best clubs possible in the world. Scholes means Goals. That was his tag line when he was in the same age of Pogba. He knows the game, even as the pundit.
Apologize my comments, Mod. Find it strange, so many here blatantly defend Mou comment towards Scholes.
If Mou can bring us EPL title, he can spit it what he likes. But the fact, he still can not do it.
He literally added to it last season.
Yeah but its SAF. Mourinho is nowhere near him.
It was the comment about how much he earns that was pretty ridiculous. Scholes made very valid points. He stated that Pogba would be better used higher up the pitch like at Juventus in a more attacking role. He also questioned whether he was fully fit. Again I do not see that as out of line. He merely wondered whether he had an injury and had been rushed back.
The comment about how much Pogba earns was a personal swipe, and is an example of the type of bitter sad person that Mourinho is
I love Paul Scholes. Not only he’s my favourite class of 92 player but I genuinely think that he was the best AMC of his generation and the most intelligent player England had in the past 30 years. I said it and I’ll repeat it again, if I had to choose between Zidane and him I would choose the latter every time.
Paul Scholes was a magnificent player. His brilliance was pretty obvious on the pitch as he constantly reinvented himself from striker to no 10 from no 10 to AMC right to DLP. However what amazes me is the fact that despite the constant chopping and changes and his physical limitations (he was ridiculously small for the EPL of the time + he suffered from acute asthma) he was able to deliver world class football week in week out. That’s down to sheer determination, which, in my opinion, it is why he’s such a lousy pundit. In some respect he reminds me of another great player ie Boban. Nothing will ever satisfy these people simply because they don’t have a realistic standard at all. Nothing anyone (including themselves) will ever satisfy them because they honestly believe that it can be done better.
Don’t take me wrong I do believe Scholes show bias towards Pogba and in some ways its justified. Scholes had everything against him. He suffered asthma, he was small and he had to constantly reinvent himself to remain on top. Pogba on the other hand is so gifted. He’s a giant, he’s superb with his feet, he’s got pace and talent. Big clubs bent over backwards for the chance of developing him. So its perfectly reasonable for Scholes to think that if he could become WC despite the obstacles he faced, then Pogba should become at least as good as he was.
So how should Mou tackle this? In my opinion there’s plenty of options to take. He could talk to him on a personal level and tell him to back off. Alternatively he could ask SAF to intervene. Both Mou and Scholes respect the man and there’s no one on earth who understand the need for kids to develop without having people breathing at their neck than the old Scot. If that didn’t work then Mou has a myriad of arguments to use in Pogba’s favour. He could have said that Scholes played in a way better squad than this which provided him with a better platform for him to develop. He could also ask Scholes how it would feel if he had legends like Robson if they constantly highlighted his weaknesses when he was a young player (especially those late tackles). All of these are perfectly reasonable arguments that Scholes would fully understand.
Instead Mourinho opted for that 1 argument that made him look shallow and silly (ie by saying that Scholes is jealous of Pogba because the latter made more money than him). Not only its unethical to reduce a living legend and a one man club to the standards usually used to mercenaries but it’s also stupid to do that with Scholes. We’re talking about a man who couldn’t even bother employing an agent in the first place, a player who retired from football while he was still the best CM in the team, forcing the club to beg for his return. Seriously but that’s argument is as silly as criticizing SAF for not winning enough EPL titles or RVN for not scoring enough goals. Mou is lucky because if he worked for another club (for example Roma) then he wouldn’t even need to bother to come to work after such spat.
Honestly I can’t understand the rationale behind it. By comparing Pogba to Scholes on money issues he made the former look like a mercenary (99.9% of all players would look like mercenaries if compared to Scholes) and it will probably attract the ire of most former United players who will now feel obliged to defend their mate. Why must Mourinho be his own worst enemy?
Paul Scholes was a magnificent player. His brilliance was pretty obvious on the pitch as he constantly reinvented himself from striker to no 10 from no 10 to AMC right to DLP. However what amazes me is the fact that despite the constant chopping and changes and his physical limitations (he was ridiculously small for the EPL of the time + he suffered from acute asthma) he was able to deliver world class football week in week out. That’s down to sheer determination, which, in my opinion, it is why he’s such a lousy pundit. In some respect he reminds me of another great player ie Boban. Nothing will ever satisfy these people simply because they don’t have a realistic standard at all. Nothing anyone (including themselves) will ever satisfy them because they honestly believe that it can be done better.
Don’t take me wrong I do believe Scholes show bias towards Pogba and in some ways its justified. Scholes had everything against him. He suffered asthma, he was small and he had to constantly reinvent himself to remain on top. Pogba on the other hand is so gifted. He’s a giant, he’s superb with his feet, he’s got pace and talent. Big clubs bent over backwards for the chance of developing him. So its perfectly reasonable for Scholes to think that if he could become WC despite the obstacles he faced, then Pogba should become at least as good as he was.
So how should Mou tackle this? In my opinion there’s plenty of options to take. He could talk to him on a personal level and tell him to back off. Alternatively he could ask SAF to intervene. Both Mou and Scholes respect the man and there’s no one on earth who understand the need for kids to develop without having people breathing at their neck than the old Scot. If that didn’t work then Mou has a myriad of arguments to use in Pogba’s favour. He could have said that Scholes played in a way better squad than this which provided him with a better platform for him to develop. He could also ask Scholes how it would feel if he had legends like Robson if they constantly highlighted his weaknesses when he was a young player (especially those late tackles). All of these are perfectly reasonable arguments that Scholes would fully understand.
Instead Mourinho opted for that 1 argument that made him look shallow and silly (ie by saying that Scholes is jealous of Pogba because the latter made more money than him). Not only its unethical to reduce a living legend and a one man club to the standards usually used to mercenaries but it’s also stupid to do that with Scholes. We’re talking about a man who couldn’t even bother employing an agent in the first place, a player who retired from football while he was still the best CM in the team, forcing the club to beg for his return. Seriously but that’s argument is as silly as criticizing SAF for not winning enough EPL titles or RVN for not scoring enough goals. Mou is lucky because if he worked for another club (for example Roma) then he wouldn’t even need to bother to come to work after such spat.
Honestly I can’t understand the rationale behind it. By comparing Pogba to Scholes on money issues he made the former look like a mercenary (99.9% of all players would look like mercenaries if compared to Scholes) and it will probably attract the ire of most former United players who will now feel obliged to defend their mate. Why must Mourinho be his own worst enemy?
So has Wenger so the Arsenal comparison still stands.
Considering he said, "it doesn't look like he will add to that", no, it really doesn't. That was his original point, Arsenal was merely his example and a weak one at that as both clubs won a trophy last season and still have the opportunity to this season.
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I'm not a fan of Scholes' overly critical nature either but to suggest he harbours an agenda (annoyingly popular word of the month) against the club is ridiculous. He is United through and through, his interviews and overall general punditry may suggest otherwise but that's just his way of dealing with the whole "appearing to remain neutral" issue that a great many football pundits struggle to maintain. Much like Neville in that regard, he often goes overboard with his criticism and ends up appearing to be ABU. That is simply not the case, neither of them have an agenda against the club. He holds the club to extremely high standards and when certain key players are seemingly performing as if they don't care, like Pogba in the Burnley game, he is rightfully going to call them on it.