I don't understand how folk can say they don't want Mourinho because of his brand of football but then want Moyes.
Everton don't play attractive football...
Everton don't play attractive football...
Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?
- Thread starter BeardedGenius
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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AVB has won trophies at the domestic and European level in just two full seasons of top League management, he got the Porto job after taking a team from the bottom of the table to mid table safety. He was also a very successful coach under Jose Mourinho. Moyes has consistently failed to make any mark whatsoever in Europe and never won anything in 10 years at Everton. No ambitious football club would appoint a 50 year old mid-table manager who has never won anything above a successful 35 year old.
He'd be a 10+ year man at United if he was given the chance, but that's only for the same reason he's been a 10 year man at Everton, no-one else is interested.
Whether or not our next manager has top level experience isn't really the issue. It's whether or not he would adapt and cut it at the top level. Would Moyes? It's not really possible to tell. He could relish the challenge and flourish or he could flop completely.
He has certainly proved that he has endurance, and has outlasted managers such as O'Neill and Redknapp who have had similar success with established mid-table clubs over a shorter time period. I'd prefer Moyes to us taking a punt on a former United player that's for sure, or another young upstart who has had a couple promising seasons.
Mourinho would be the safer bet. Guardiola is still a bit of a wildcard despite his successes given the infrastructure in place at Barcelona.
He has certainly proved that he has endurance, and has outlasted managers such as O'Neill and Redknapp who have had similar success with established mid-table clubs over a shorter time period. I'd prefer Moyes to us taking a punt on a former United player that's for sure, or another young upstart who has had a couple promising seasons.
Mourinho would be the safer bet. Guardiola is still a bit of a wildcard despite his successes given the infrastructure in place at Barcelona.
Fergie described Moyes' achievements at Everton as miraculous.
Moyes has done a superb job at Everton but he has not won a major trophy in his managerial career, has no experience of being in a title race, he does not have any CL experience and we don't know how he would cope with pressures that come with managing a club the size of United.
My preference would be Mourinho as he has the above and he would have the personality/confidence to take over SAF and cope with the pressure of replacing the best manager of all time.
My preference would be Mourinho as he has the above and he would have the personality/confidence to take over SAF and cope with the pressure of replacing the best manager of all time.
Neither do we.
I know it wouldn't happen in a million years but assuming there's a chance, what would you all think about Wenger taking over?
I honestly think we'll be going big to replace Fergie. By that I mean, Pep or Mourinho. The Glazers know that all the commercial stuff will only come with on the field success, therefore it's imperative for them to replace Fergie with a world class manager.
Whatever you can say about Glazers, but they're pure business minded people and won't make a bad decision just to save a few quid.
Whatever you can say about Glazers, but they're pure business minded people and won't make a bad decision just to save a few quid.
I rate him, but he's too old to be our next manager.
To be honest, I'd take a life sentence in order to kill him if that ever happened.
Wouldnt want him. Far too stubborn in his own way for my linking. A Stubborn attitude is fine when you can back it up with success but Wenger hasnt done that.
The playing field will be different for him here, agreed but its still a risk. His denial to accept faults and rectify them is why i wouldnt want him.
It cracks me up how ignorant people are about Mourinho. Yes, he is disinclined to bring youngsters through (so a fair consideration when the time comes to replace Fergie), but for goodness sake does nobody watch his teams?
I mean, he ALLOWS Ronaldo AND Di Maria to simply go and play and not be constrained by staying wide - depending on the likes of Alonso, Khedira and Modric to mop everything up. That doesn't sound especially defensive to me. And I've yet to see Marcelo or Coentrao, and Arbeloa hanging about on the half-way line.
And I don't recall his Inter and Chelsea teams lacking for goals generally?
So Moyes is not for me at all. Mourinho or Guardiola please. Oh, and lose Mike Phelan PLEASE???
I'll throw my ITK muppetry into the fray here. We sounded Arsenal out about Wenger 10 years ago when Fergie was supposed to retire at 60, but were rebuffed.
Moyes is a fine manager who has done an outstanding job at Everton....it cannot be denied. This season appears to be finally bearing serious fruit for him and his vision. Fair play to him Everton have been good to watch.
As for succeding Ferguson....I just cannot see it. My doubts stem from the simple fact that he has not managed a club anywhere near United's stature, and it's a complete gamble to hope he can achieve the level of success United require. He must also achieve it quickly or the pressure will become incredible. I'm sure some people believe United will not succumb to short-termism but I don't buy it. Ferguson's tenure is a one-off, it's almost impossible, a miracle in it's environment. Moyes would not be given 4 years to win a trophy, 7 years to win a title. And he would have to succeed in Europe on a consistent basis....he would need to learn quickly and show stability at the least before progress.
If United get it wrong post Ferguson.....the knock-on-effect could be hugely detrimental long term. If Moyes struggled in his first 2 years would he get the support Sir Alex enjoys? Would he be able to handle the intense 24/7 media focus, player power etc. ? I'm not sure he could.
United will need a sure pair of hands, someone who can guarantee trophies quickly so that there are no mournful glances towards a departed Ferguson. Someone who can stamp their own authority on Manchester United and stack up well to his legendary predecessor.
Kind of narrows it down to a select group really.
As for succeding Ferguson....I just cannot see it. My doubts stem from the simple fact that he has not managed a club anywhere near United's stature, and it's a complete gamble to hope he can achieve the level of success United require. He must also achieve it quickly or the pressure will become incredible. I'm sure some people believe United will not succumb to short-termism but I don't buy it. Ferguson's tenure is a one-off, it's almost impossible, a miracle in it's environment. Moyes would not be given 4 years to win a trophy, 7 years to win a title. And he would have to succeed in Europe on a consistent basis....he would need to learn quickly and show stability at the least before progress.
If United get it wrong post Ferguson.....the knock-on-effect could be hugely detrimental long term. If Moyes struggled in his first 2 years would he get the support Sir Alex enjoys? Would he be able to handle the intense 24/7 media focus, player power etc. ? I'm not sure he could.
United will need a sure pair of hands, someone who can guarantee trophies quickly so that there are no mournful glances towards a departed Ferguson. Someone who can stamp their own authority on Manchester United and stack up well to his legendary predecessor.
Kind of narrows it down to a select group really.
That's how I feel about Moyes.
The mere thought alone is keeping me up at night.
Good post.
In terms of Spurs I'm certain Levy will have approached a few managers along with AVB, one of which would have been Moyes. He's one of the highest paid managers in the league already and would also have had to have his contract bought out.
Agree he is far better than AVB.
His Real Madrid team are, for my money, the best team in football to watch.
The game they play isn't as technically sophisticated as Barcelona, but they just have a relentless brutality about them.
I don't think we'd play like that under him, Real Madrid fans are far more spoilt than us and DEMAND that he plays football in a way that is entertaining as well as successful, and he wouldn't have the ability to construct a squad as capable of doing it but I think we'd be a damn sight more entertaining to watch than we have under Ferguson for the past 4 years.
Not that I'm criticisng Ferguson in any way in saying that.
Mourinho doesn't build teams though; he buys them. Moyes has shown an excellent record in helping youngsters develop, and also buying players cheap and letting them grow into much better players.
I quite agree with you.
My big issue wih mourinho is how long he would stay.
We won't get another Sir Alex. We're not likely to get anything close, even if his replacement would end up being another from Scotland.
Has Mourinho, since Porto, worked at a club that wanted him to 'build a team'? All three wanted success, and wanted it yesterday.
It matters not. The glazers say the money is here if a target is identified. I'm sure Jose will be allowed to spend it. Certain.
Another fine point.
Moyes has shown an excellent record in his youth development, but a lot of that has been down to him having limited money to spend. If we are struggling with him in charge, it comes to January, and he's got money, he'd go out and spend it instantly. Mourinho's generally been at clubs with money and because he's not always a long term manager, he's spent it and done things the easier way. There's also the fact that not all of these teams had great youth when he went there.
I like Moyes and he's a good manager, but like some others I just feel uncomfortable at the idea of letting him take such a massive jump to a job like this when he's got no experience of it before. I know that top managers had to rise the top some way, but I just don't know. I'd feel so much more comfortable with a Mourinho or Guardiola in charge.
I've made this point before in a similar thread but will do so again. When Sir Alex Ferguson retires from management, his replacement will face the biggest task ever in football history in actually filling the predecessor's shoes. We all know that clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona, Bayern are just as big as United and have had many managers over the recent past, but it is different this time for us. Sure David Moyes is an excellent manager in my opinion and has a good chance of doing well if given the chance of managing a big club. But this job (SAF's successor) is not about just managing a big club but also being scrutinized at every chance possible, handling enormous amounts of pressure and unimaginable expectations. The day Fergie retires, the club needs to still constantly maintain stablility in terms of results and silverware to actually show the world United can actually be managed by a man other than Sir Alex. A man with big fecking shoulders for the job. I'd say that man is Jose.
I've actually been overlooking the shoulders. It's balls I'm looking for. Same result, same name.
I don't see it as much of an issue. For quarter of a century we have had fergie at the helm of things and it has been amazingly smooth for us in terms of stability in the managerial area. A place where other big teams still atm are struggling - see Chelsea, Liverpool..etc. I wouldn't mind Mourinho for 4-5 years to be honest. I am confident he would win us trophies and then get someone like Jurgen Klopp to take over ( wishful thinking I know ) from Jose so that the expectations are lowered for Klopp or any other manager for that matter for having to match Sir Alex's accolades at every turn.
That man is certainly not David moyes
Mourinho buys his teams? And what exactly is this current United side if not bought?
Looking at our first team De Gea, Carrick, Valencia, Young, Rooney, van Persie are all expensive signings and we got Jones, Anderson and Nani on the fringes, all of them around the £20m mark. We've probably spent close to £300m or even more to put this squad together.
Looking at our first team De Gea, Carrick, Valencia, Young, Rooney, van Persie are all expensive signings and we got Jones, Anderson and Nani on the fringes, all of them around the £20m mark. We've probably spent close to £300m or even more to put this squad together.
Even if that was wholly true, which is not, he's still remarkably successful. We have plenty of examples that shows us that splashing money around doesn't mean you'll win trophies, at least not as fast as you will with him at the helm.
Since he left Porto, he's had amazing squads, no doubt. But he earned that privilege through his competence and consistency. And he never disappoints. Not at Benfica, Leiria, Porto, and everything else beyond. Perhaps Real will be his most underwhelming club. He may very well leave after 3 seasons with "only" a league title and a Copa del Rey. But even that is marginally impressive when we look at Barcelona.
He rarely if ever disappoints. Does anyone remember him being dicked around by any other team apart from the odd Barcelona game? Very rarely that happens. He may not win the Champions League every year, but not once he was thrown out of it in an embarrassing way.
Certainly the best manager in the modern era of football. I'd say that discounting Sir Alex Fergusson whose career was so particularly different than every other manager that makes it impossible to draw comparisons. What he built with you lot is something extraordinary and he's had a much wider role than Mourinho will ever have at any club.
It's a reasonable issue, but when you look through his job history, he's never been at places where he could really realistically stay for too long. He was never going to stay at Porto forever. He would always want a bigger challenge. Chelsea is even more self explanatory when you look at them right now. In Inter, the media were just insufferable for him and he wasn't going to stay forever. Now there's Real Madrid, who aren't known for long managerial reigns.
Here it could be different though. He clearly loves the country, it's a massive challenge, the media kind of love him too due to a lot of the content he gives them being golden, and he'd get time.
Plus, he's arguably the only man in the world who the media and fanbase can place trust in. With most, the fans and media would quickly start to raise questions after a couple of months if things weren't going too smoothly. It wouldn't be the same with Mourinho though. He's one of the few who would be able to hold up to Fergie and wouldn't be doubted in such a job.
And yes, that idea of bringing up youth is getting old. There's not much room for that in the top clubs, such cut-throat has the industry become. Only Barcelona does it in a significantly successful way. What was the last first team player of real quality to have come out of United's youth set up? I'm not talking about squad players, Mourinho can pull the odd one of those as well. Are there any perspectives of one coming out soon? If Cleverley is the best answer you lot are going to give me than it doesn't strike me as a very strong argument against Mourinho.
Clev, Welbeck and Evans. Who are the comparable ones Mourinho has brought through Aruda?You are surely likely to win plenty of trophies with teams based around those. The trust in Welbeck is so immense you even bought a 29 year old striker this season. He'll probably play less minutes than last year. How is that "bringing him up".
Those are squad players at best, with the possibility of Welbeck becoming more than that. Mourinho will certainly make use of that kind of players if he has them available. He hasn't "brought up" any, but he never had the chance or time to do so. But he's used plenty of average players over the years who are comparable to those. People talk like if he can't work with a player that cost less than 30 million.
Truth is, it's not likely you will find another generation like the Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, etc, no matter who's in charge of the youth set up. Top teams nowadays don't have the time to nurture these players into the team whilst giving them enough minutes to progress. Not many at once, certainly. The pressure to win every game every season at a club like United is immense, and it will only get bigger when the managers isn't called Sir Alex Ferguson.
All squad players with other players ahead of them in the order - van Persie & Rooney, Scholes & Carrick, Vidic & Ferdinand namely. Base a whole team around players that level and 4th is the best you are going to get.
Three internationals ffs and all still developing.
Evans is pushing to be first choice and was one of our best players last season, as is Cleverley who only has Carrick ahead of him.
Welbeck is behind Van Persie and Rooney, hardly a damning position.
There is three Ferguson is bringing through, as well as purchased prospects like Rafael, Jones and Smalling.
Can I hear Mourinho's?
Evans is pushing to be first choice and was one of our best players last season, as is Cleverley who only has Carrick ahead of him.
Welbeck is behind Van Persie and Rooney, hardly a damning position.
There is three Ferguson is bringing through, as well as purchased prospects like Rafael, Jones and Smalling.
Can I hear Mourinho's?
Certainly can't compare Fergie's work with young players - home grown or bought - to Mourinho's. But like it's was said here, by me as well, Mourinho didn't have too much of a chance or the time to do so.
£16m Jones and £10m Smalling? I'm pretty sure there'd be plenty of examples of such players during Mourinho's spells with Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Real.
Inter had Balotelli, Santon and Coutinho while he was there IIRC.
But it isn't just about the youth players produced internally, but looking to the future by signing prospects rather than established stars. Bar Varane I can't think of many..
But it isn't just about the youth players produced internally, but looking to the future by signing prospects rather than established stars. Bar Varane I can't think of many..
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