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2017-18 Performances


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Mike09

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@Mike09

I just saw your edit and saw the pics.

You know what? Matic was trying to pass to Lukaku and got intercepted. Matic did it badly there with his right foot, but was not your point about him not trying too pass to Lukaku? Matic's vision

Am I reading your post wrong?
No! lack of vision what I mentioned is one of the few reason why he couldn't find his team mate which is why you said some of our players didn't give him an option. Remember! I only started mentioning "lack of vision" when you mentioned that our players didn't give Matic an option to pass the ball to.

The images that I showed you was trying to tell you that there is also times and times when our players gave him an option to pass the ball, Matic failed to deliver it.
 

ti vu

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@Mike09

The below was the post you talk about vision, decision making, team mate position before first showed the image which I couldn't see until later edit.

I don't agree with these point. First of all, it's not about decision making as Lukaku is definitely a better option to pass to. Failing to deliver the ball with his weaker foot is Matic's fault but nothing to do with vision, either. Matic spotted Lukaku. Lukaku was in good area but there were not enough passing options to take Soton players away. Lukaku was read by Soton players. When talking about passing options, passing angle for the passer needs to workable. The easier for the passer to pull the better. In this case, Matic had 2 options. One difficult which is a better to transit the play. The easier passing option is to Mkhi which would further close out the next pass down the line. Matic decided to pick difficult pass which should be better for team play. He failed, no excuse. Can it be improved? Sure. Some players should make run to the left of Matic so the Soton player who intercepted this pass would have to think twice since he has 2 passing angle to close down.

In this specific case, we lack the passing option to raise the tempo. Soton would love if Matic kept choosing the safe option to Mkhi in counter attack. That happened under LVG where LVG prefers keeping possession, and ended up with slow build up (tempo), played into opposition hand. Here Matic failed to raise the tempo which we I believe no one disagree, but I disagree that he had enough passing options to make it work (raising the tempo). Everyone know Lukaku would be our the focal of our attack. Soton knew as much and did as much to work and close this path to Lukaku. My point was just that. In this game we didn't have sufficient passing options for Matic or whoever else in attempt to raise the tempo. Matic in better form would be better in picking his passes than yesterday. However, the hardship of the Soton imposed on our play and one player or our outnumbered midfield, 2 vs 3 of Soton for majority of the game, would be in same disadvantaged with the other players not pulling their weight helping the team play.

If number of creating chances are the thing that people used to determine whether your team got dominated or no then I'm done talking about post match discussion in here. So I'll leave it there for now.

I have the right to comment on an individual player performance in a match in a player performance thread. If you can't accept it and being agree and disagree then why bother replying.

Matic did very well defensively today but there is also something that he did wrong today.

If a player unable to see his own team mate further forward and only can see a team mate who is nearby him and end up with passing it short and still gave the ball away, what would you call it then? Good vision? Good decision? Team mate is in a poor positioning??



https://ibb.co/mRrQKQ

https://ibb.co/k0W365

From those two images you can see clearly Lukaku was giving him an option there with big space as well in front of him. Matic unable to deliver the ball to Lukaku. Like I said before our midfield today couldn't handle the high press from Southampton.
 
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Z_Wolf

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When coming up against a team that presses relentlessly, Mourinho would rather shut up shop than control the midfield and pass the ball about. It's too risky for his liking so there's no point in arguing about one midfield player failing to control a midfield. If Mou allowed our forwards and midfielders to actually go forward and push Stn back, there wouldn't be that many oppo players in our half pressing our midfielders.

Matic is one of the best interms of technical ability as far as CDMs in the league go. He's perfectly capable of playing against a team that presses relentlessly.
 

Mike09

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@Mike09

The below was the post you talk about vision, decision making, team mate position before first showed the image which I couldn't see until later edit.

I don't agree with these point. First of all, it's not about decision making as Lukaku is definitely a better option to pass to.
Again, I have already try to make the sentence as short as possible and you are still missing the point. Here what I said above:

The images that I showed you was trying to tell you that there is also times and times when our players gave him an option to pass the ball, Matic failed to deliver it.

In order word, the decision making that I mentioned before has nothing to do with that picture. If you check my post again, I only started talking decision making & vision when you mentioned that our players didn't give Matic an option to pass the ball to. Mainly because Matic tends to make short easy pass. And by the way you don't need to be a great vision in order to pick up Lukaku. Every player who started counter attack like that should be able to see Lukaku easily.

However, that picture shows that when a player like Lukaku gives him an option (you told me that our players didn't give him an option), Matic still failed to deliver the ball to him.

Failing to deliver the ball with his weaker foot is Matic's fault but nothing to do with vision, either.
Player like Pogba, Carrick and Scholes can pass the ball using both of their feet. No excuse. That's why I said that I wasn't surprised with Matic today because his speciality isn't controlling the tempo. His main job was to protect the back four, recycling the ball with simple pass or even clear the ball out. So relax mate because there is nothing bad and wrong for me to said Matic & Fellaini couldn't control our tempo today because it was never their speciality. We missed Pogba!!

Again, I will say it again that picture wasn't meant for vision thing that I mentioned. When you said it's our attackers didn't give option to Matic, I was meant to use those pictures to show you that our players do give our midfield option to pass to. The vision & decision what I meant are in different case. It was the case when he couldn't find other players who are in free space but he decided to make short simple pass in the midfield which is the area that Southampton did high press. For example if Matic has the vision he could give the ball to other players like Rashford or others who were in free space but he passed the ball to Fellaini and Fellaini lost the ball because of the quick high press.

Matic spotted Lukaku. Lukaku was in good area but there were not enough passing options to take Soton players away. Lukaku was read by Soton players. When talking about passing options, passing angle for the passer needs to workable. The easier for the passer to pull the better. In this case, Matic had 2 options. One difficult which is a better to transit the play. The easier passing option is to Mkhi which would further close out the next pass down the line. Matic decided to pick difficult pass which should be better for team play. He failed, no excuse. Can it be improved? Sure. Some players should make run to the left of Matic so the Soton player who intercepted this pass would have to think twice since he has 2 passing angle to close down.
And another reason why he missed the pass because like I already said in my very first post that our midfield couldn't handle the high press from Soton. There were not enough passing options to take Soton players away because it was a counter attack and if he was able to deliver the ball quicker enough to Lukaku then it would have been a perfect one. Lukaku has a good strength to hold the ball, with that it'll give plenty of times for other players to go forward as well which give more options to pass the ball too. Well, only if Matic was able to pass it to Lukaku.

Oh by the way that "no excuse" you mentioned. :rolleyes: Mate you just mentioned Matic used his weaker foot as your excuse lol.


In this specific case, we lack the passing option to raise the tempo. Soton would love if Matic kept choosing the safe option to Mkhi in counter attack. That happened under LVG where LVG prefers keeping possession, and ended up with slow build up (tempo), played into opposition hand. Here Matic failed to raise the tempo which we I believe no one disagree, but I disagree that he had enough passing options to make it work (raising the tempo). Everyone know Lukaku would be our the focal of our attack. Soton knew as much and did as much to work and close this path to Lukaku. My point was just that. In this game we didn't have sufficient passing options for Matic or whoever else in attempt to raise the tempo. Matic in better form would be better in picking his passes than yesterday. However, the hardship of the Soton imposed on our play and one player or our outnumbered midfield, 2 vs 3 of Soton for majority of the game, would be in same disadvantaged with the other players not pulling their weight helping the team play.
Well, I don't just mention slow the tempo. It seems that you have missed what I said. I said: Today, we didn't know when we need to slow it down and when we need to play quicker.
Check it out last page if you think I make it up (I even copy paste the exact same sentence). Anyway the picture what I showed isn't about this case.

Anyway, I don't want someone else jumped it and being misunderstood. Matic did his job defensively today. It's his speciality but he was never a type of player who control the tempo and provide great balls, he's not Carrick not Pogba. He missed Pogba who can do the job for him. There is nothing wrong to say Matic was never that type of player IMO. If you still disagree oh well so be it.
 
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Mike09

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When coming up against a team that presses relentlessly, Mourinho would rather shut up shop than control the midfield and pass the ball about. It's too risky for his liking so there's no point in arguing about one midfield player failing to control a midfield. If Mou allowed our forwards and midfielders to actually go forward and push Stn back, there wouldn't be that many oppo players in our half pressing our midfielders.

Matic is one of the best interms of technical ability as far as CDMs in the league go. He's perfectly capable of playing against a team that presses relentlessly.
I have no say about if Matic can handle high press or no. All I said is that both Matic & Fellaini couldn't handle the high press from Southampton today. We couldn't control the midfield because of those high press which I have mentioned as well so yeah I agree with you for that part that Jose would rather shut up shop. He knows what our midfield capable of or not capable of. I think if we have players with great ball retention, it won't be the case though.
 

criticalanalysis

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I have no say about if Matic can handle high press or no. All I said is that both Matic & Fellaini couldn't handle the high press from Southampton today. We couldn't control the midfield because of those high press which I have mentioned as well so yeah I agree with you for that part that Jose would rather shut up shop. He knows what our midfield capable of or not capable of. I think if we have players with great ball retention, it won't be the case though.
I think everyone gets what you're saying but Toni Kroos and Modric (two man midfield with Miki/Mata in front not a Casemiro behind them) wouldn't have been able to 'control' that midfield against Southampton. I mean sure they would have held the ball better no doubt and circulated it better but the way Mourinho has coached this team and having Miki/Rashford losing the ball multiple times, the game still would have been back and forth.

I agree we should expect it but you've put unrealistic expectations and criticism on Matic because he wouldn't look out of place in the best of passing teams. Yes he and everyone can individually do better but at the same time you must provide the tools for the platform for success and in this case, the team style and personnel definitely did not help.
 

Mike09

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I think everyone gets what you're saying but Toni Kroos and Modric (two man midfield with Miki/Mata in front not a Casemiro behind them) wouldn't have been able to 'control' that midfield against Southampton. I mean sure they would have held the ball better no doubt and circulated it better but the way Mourinho has coached this team and having Miki/Rashford losing the ball multiple times, the game still would have been back and forth.

I agree we should expect it but you've put unrealistic expectations and criticism on Matic because he wouldn't look out of place in the best of passing teams. Yes he and everyone can individually do better but at the same time you must provide the tools for the platform for success and in this case, the team style and personnel definitely did not help.
If we have Kroos & Modric in our team obviously we would have played differently than what we did yesterday.

Not exactly I put high or unrealistic expectation. My criticism was also meant to show what we are missing in our midfield in that game which what both Fellaini & Matic couldn't do. I did say I wasn't surprise with the way how Matic & Fellaini played against Southampton so it's not like I didn't appreciate what they did in defending. But if we can have players who can dictate the tempo next to them in that game it'd be much better than not having any.
 

ivaldo

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Love him but his passing has been sloppy today. Couple of times its almost left us in the suit.
 

Minimalist

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I must say he's an outstanding footballer. He's genuinely made me question how much attention I give to non-United players because I had no idea he was this composed and good on the ball (never mind a rock defensively).
 

charlenefan

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MOTM for me, the attackers will get the headlines but him and Herrera were the catalyst winning everything in midfield and setting up the quick counters

That pass to Darmian just put Matic ahead of Herrera
 

roonster09

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More than 100 passes attempted with more than 90% completion rate. His pass to Darmian was just superb.

Superb start to his ManUtd career. His all round play is very good.
 

ivaldo

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Find it incredible his passing ability was being questioned prior to his signing.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Very good game from him. He has been fantastic this season. Against Southampton I think he struggled a bit, but him and Herrera did so well today. I think he probably work better with more mobile and attacking midfielders compared to Fellaini. Also 3 at the back and him work so well given he played that formation with Chelsea all of last season.
 

kafta

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Bossed it today, again. I love watching him play, just looks a cut above everyone around him.

Credit to Jose for this one, he got it spot on.
 

ivaldo

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:lol: Both points are correct though. His passing wasn't at his usual standard tonight, almost put their striker through on goal and started a dangerous counter attack for them. But then he players a 40 yard raking pass that he apparently isn't capable of.
 

BenjaminP

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I'm worried he would burn out.

Jose, give him some rest, or at least sub him off when we're up 4-0.
 

Hugh Jass

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Himself and Micky T were controlling it in the first half. Everything good went through them.
 

Dembeza

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@GifLord someone already posted it on twitter, thanks.

This is a pass Scholes would have been proud of.
 
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Sylar

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This is gonna sound strange, but I love having a left footed player in central midfield. It just looks ... different. Like its classy when he pings the ball out.
 
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