I'll admit I got it wrong on Matic. I never thought he was a bad player just an uninspiring player who represented poor value given his age. But I must say he has slotted seamlessly into the team and improves the team's offence and defence by giving confidence to the players around him. Players can fully commit to attack because you know Matic is there covering their back. Matic gives the team a more solid spine.
31
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 49
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Proved me wrong. Come to think of it, I probably would've been proved wrong about Perisic too had he come here.
True we had Moyesy 4 years ago
Superb signing thus far, always rated him highly but even I'm surprised how quickly he has slotted in. Can tell he played for Mourinho before and knows exactly what his role entails.
Just me who thinks we've changed formation since Matic signed?
Matic tends to be the only real central midfielder, the 4 in front of him (Pogba, Mata, Mkhi and Rash for example) all move about and interchange, but Matic always stays central.
Matic tends to be the only real central midfielder, the 4 in front of him (Pogba, Mata, Mkhi and Rash for example) all move about and interchange, but Matic always stays central.
Southampton 0:1 Man Utd
Really missed Pogba in there with him today as Southampton's energy in midfield caused us problems.
He was solid defensively but couldn't push forward much with us forced to set deep.
His worst performance for us by some margin. Lost a lot of 50/50s and some strange headers that didn't seem to go where they were intended. Not much quality in evidence.
I thought he was good yet again. Stability.
Thought this was his worst performance for us so far.
Holding midfielder is a vital role. And people don't really give a lot of credit on this role.
I thought him & Fellaini struggled with high press today. Our midfields couldn't control the tempo and end up losing it whenever we won the ball.
The outlet were poor. Either tightly marked, Rashford Lukaku... or simply wasteful in possession Mkhi. Controlling a game does require the teammates to be capable of recycling possession too. No one can control the game alone while teammates being wasteful or marked.
Not the type of game for him to partner Fellaini. Game pretty much cried for Pogba
You cannot control the game if your midfield end up pass the ball to the opposition players either. Matic's main job should be the one who recycling all the loss ball but he failed to do it today.
If you don't have option to pass you just try to get the ball further away from your goal than outright got disposssessed and leave your defense line exposed. It's not like we don't know Matic's passing capability and for some unknown reason he can't get control of the game through his passing.
If you don't have option to pass he shouldn't try to pass the ball to the opposition. Carrick tends to slow down the tempo when he knows there is no option. That's why I was talking about "couldn't control the tempo". Today, we didn't know when we need to slow it down and when we need to play quicker. But as far what i watched today there are a lot of moments when both Matic & Fellaini did have the option but they got panic easily.
And also me talking about giving the ball away is when both Matic & Fellaini kept make short simple pass ball to the opposition not "get the ball further away from our goal" or "clear the ball away".
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In games like this you can see how old he is unfortunately.
The game was slowed down to walking pace. Soton was the one raised the tempo and was able to succeeded in doing because many of Matic's passing options just failed to control the ball.
Carrick played with Rio and Vidic (underrated ball playing CB) and VDS who is superior passing than this lot. We have proper wide players for the main passers to spread the ball to. Even then, after VDS retired and Rio and Vida declined, our passing took a huge dive in quality and gave birth to zombie passing (!). Today performance is pretty similar to zombie passing standard beside lack of wide options for Matic to keep spreading the ball outwide and earned Carrick the tag of sideway passer specialist back in the day. Carrick hardly controls tempo. He is tempo reducer. Carrick struggled in high tempo game. Scholes on the other day was the tempo controller who can play and control whatever level of tempo in his favor.
IIRC we did got dominated by Poch Soton in our first encounter with Poch, the same way and similarly nicked the win.
Edit:
Post match that game
Manchester United boss Alex Ferguson told BBC Sport: "[Winning] is the name of the game at this stage of the season.
"For the first 30 minutes I thought we were fantastic, we played really well. But in the second half Southampton have been the best team to play here this season.
"We were fortunate to win the game. They pushed on top of us and didn't give us any time on the ball."
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Of course you will think it was slowed down to walking pace because we struggled to even launch quick counter attack. A lot of time when we won the ball straight away, both Matic & Fellaini end up make a short forward pass the ball to the opposition. We tried to play quick counter attack tempo when we won the ball back but we failed. And they did have options, but they got panicked.
I don't see that's against me saying we tried to play counter attack so many times when we won the ball back again but we couldn't do it because we just keeping supplying Southampton easy pass. That's why I also mentioned both Fellaini & Matic failed with high press today just like SAF said they didn't give us any time on the ball.
We could have killed the game off in 2 different counter attack chance in the second, but yet you saw not one made.
We attempted several counter which died at feet of our players in attacking position. All you remembered is some misspasses on notion that controlling the game is possible solely on the midfielders (here Matic and Fellaini) vs a 3 men midfield of Southampton, and regardless of surrounding (passing option).
You brought up Carrick about controlling tempo well, then and showed you similar game where Carrick and whoever his partner couldn't single handed doing that when his passing options were marked, couldn't survive the pressing. That's to point SAF said that his team was fortunate.
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I don't think he was as bad as people are saying. Did his job pretty fine defensively. It's just people were getting used to him pushing forward with creative passes that they used to cheer for but he didn't do this today because the team was forced back deep, but defensively wise it was as his previous games. It's hard to notice how good a DM is if he's just concentrating on doing his defensive duties without any other tricks.
Mate, I'm here is talking about Matic not about how poor our attackers are. If this is a "post match discussion" then yea I will talk more not just about Matic had a lot of misspasses.
I never say we failed 100% of counter attack. What I'm trying to say is we failed countless times during counter attack. And one the main problem is our midfield couldn't control the tempo. Lack of vision & got panicked.
Sorry but if you want to talk about everything else, you can go to post match discussion.
To be fair. He did good defensively. Him & Fellaini did won a lot of ball as I mentioned before. But at the same time gave the ball away cheaply too.
And to be fair though. I'm not too surprised about his passings today. I watched a lot of Chelsea matches as well, and as far what I can see in his Chelsea days, Matic was never a "creative passes" mainly because he doesn't have great vision like a deeplying playmaker. Losing Pogba next to him and has to play alongside Fellaini is a big blow because neither are creative passers.
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Couldn't control tempo, lack vision and get panicked are all valid point to bring "passing options" into discussion.
A passer is not responsible for his teammate poor position, movement, losing possession cheaply and ruined any kind of momentum.
Agree to disagree if you insist on midfielders can easily win the midfield battle when outnumbered and their passing options ain't good enough.
Add to your myth of Carrick single handed control the tempo of similar type of game. Same game I brought up before. Carrick lacked of passing option panicked and made mistake which he accepted as his fault.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/engli...97/carrick-accepts-blame-for-southampton-goal
Or the vision is just not good enough.
At least we still able took control the midfield during that 2013 game vs Southampton.
Really? Both SAF & Carrick came out talking about being fortunate and somehow being able to dragged over the line with Southampton won the midfield battle (easy to notice watching that game).
Poch crave on here started that game. Many would easily recall how we ended the game as underdog.
What kind of vision of help you pass the ball through opposition body when your teammate can't get moving and passing angle was closed?
Tough game happens and team can be outwitted by opposition.
Agree to disagree, mate if you still insist on your individual players can do a teamwork on their own.
Unlike today's game we were able to create more chances in that game. Today's game we were even being dominated in both halves.
But you know, I find it amusing how you keep saying agree to disagree and yet still coming back and started to make this thread into a post match discussion. And what make it more interesting it's not only one post match discussion but also two post matches discussion and one of them Matic didn't even play.
Next minute, you will blame me for talking in different directions. This thread is about Matic's performance 2017/2018. I think I had the right to give what I think Matic did wrong and right today. If you want to call it "Tough game happens and team can be outwitted by opposition.", I agree with you but this is not general discussion or post match discussion.
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He was fine but he was isolated today. From the second half Fellaini was getting the run around and Matic was sitting deeper and deeper to cover, which left even more space for Southampton to play in.
Count how many time I posted agree to disagree in this thread. You are making stuff up? I am coming back now because you.
Stop moving the goal post as this is post match topic when you failed to acknowledge providing passing potion a thus help control the game is a teamwork and just not one player's job.
How much more chance we're created that game? Do you count chance creation by attackers in that game who were better in that game, against Matic's doing his job as not able to control tempo and doesn't have vision. Just because Michigan made several bad decision in good position and killed he chance himself? Mata, Lukaku failed to make cross reaching his teammates... so it doesn't count as chance?
Are you sure you watch the game to come to conclusion that we got dominated today in the first half? How many chance Southampton created in first half?
As I mentioned zombie football, I thought you can recall how it was and realize it was not all rosy about athe notion of a midfielder and his partner can control the tempo all alone when his team played bad. Zombie football term ain't built on one game, but several games, mind.
Peace.
If number of creating chances are the thing that people used to determine whether your team got dominated or no then I'm done talking about post match discussion in here. So I'll leave it there for now.
I have the right to comment on an individual player performance in a match in a player performance thread. If you can't accept it and being agree and disagree then why bother replying.
Matic did very well defensively today but there is also something that he did wrong today.
If a player unable to see his own team mate further forward and only can see a team mate who is nearby him and end up with passing it short and still gave the ball away, what would you call it then? Good vision? Good decision? Team mate is in a poor positioning??
https://ibb.co/mRrQKQ
https://ibb.co/k0W365
From those two images you can see clearly Lukaku was giving him an option there with big space as well in front of him. Matic unable to deliver the ball to Lukaku. Like I said before our midfield today couldn't handle the high press from Southampton.
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Ironically, you brought up chance creation as measurement tool in tempo control. Now you move chance creation aside as it's not the measurement of how much control of the game a team has (which I agree), to big up Soton.If number of creating chances are the thing that people used to determine whether your team got dominated or no then I'm done talking about post match discussion in here. So I'll leave it there for now.
I have the right to comment on an individual player performance in a match in a player performance thread. If you can't accept it and being agree and disagree then why bother replying.
If a player unable to see his own team mate further forward and only can see a team mate who is nearby him and end up with passing it short and still gave the ball away, what would you call it then? Good vision? Good decision? Team mate is in a poor positioning??
Clearly Lukaku was giving him an option there with big space as well in front of him. Matic unable to deliver the ball to Lukaku. Like I said before our midfield today couldn't handle the high press from Southampton.
There is a big difference in usefulness of Soton's possession in two halves. In first half they lack any kind of idea to break us down and we just counter pretty well. I will repeat this point that our attackers were more fault in ruining our counter attack than Soton did. Had the game continued as first half went, we should be talking about professional performance and how we had been able to contain Soton. Second half was not it. It's the reborn of Zombie football with different new casts. We came out of the game felt fortunate about crawling over the line just like the reference game I mentioned, which again Soton happened to truly dominate in second half.
Who took away your right to comment on individual player's performance? Are you suggesting me saying Matic having a great game individually? Or what I explained about tempo controlling is also the work of the team, as you tried to dismiss it, was me taking your right?
Before questioning other people of why they bother replying, are you yourself aware of your discussing habit? You put out a point which someone as a member of this board may come to disagree. They put out their point. Both side give out counter argument but you're stuck up with your opinion being right and has seen never agree to disagree. The other side (me included) agree to disagree. It doesn't mean we accept your opinion as right. That should be the end of it but your bad habit kick in that you spin the other posters' point around. That's why people come back to re correct their point, which ironically you turn to question people why bothering responding!!! This is the second time you run this posting habit into me, but I recall you had similar streak in Mata discussion.
Images not showing. Repost it then I'll entertain what you meant.
@Mike09 you look like an idiot in this thread
That's hardly something to blame them for considering we were setting back very deep and there were no targets to pass the ball to. We weren't building any attacks so their job was just to defend and throw the ball away.
Matic has been pushing forward a lot during the previous matches and helped building up the attack from deep midfield and also got some very nice passing in him, definitely not Verrati or Alonso esque. He didn't do any of this in this match so some will think he was bad, but he was focusing on defending and we weren't attempting to build any attacks whatsoever.
Ironically I have already told you many times that this is a player individual thread not a match thread. Thus, the match discussion is something that I never have any intend to discuss in here. That's why I described it into one simple sentence by saying that Southampton dominated the game in both halves. I can go on and explain to you but this isn't a match thread!! So stop moving to different direction!!!
Copy paste the image then it will show.
Edit:
https://ibb.co/mRrQKQ
https://ibb.co/k0W365
Never I meant such a thing mate.
What I find it amusing is that how are blabbering about agree and disagree but at the same time you are trying to tell me that you love arguing with people and cannot accept different opinion by saying "I'll entertain what you meant''.
I share my thought first but you came here and jump in because you disagree with me and act like you are correct. Notice how I never say I disagree with you. I respect your different opinion but you showed none.
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I agree that their job is just defending which is why I said I wasn't so surprised with what Matic did today. He missed Pogba on his side.
I agree on that. They make a perfect combo with each other more than any other combination we can try in the midfield.
Player discussion: he can't do this that. He failed this and failed that. You can't talk a player in view of team game, team performance. Few year in the future. X player is behind everything. You can't judge Y player s better individually because X is behind everything.
Is that what you suppose player thread should go?
There is no link to copy and paste. Anyone saw the pics being posted?
Respect different opinion is different than staying silent when you spin the point made by me &a different posters. We defended our point and made the record clear on what we said against what you with your moving the goal post tactic trying to disorted it.
I don't know whether I read you wrong but I don't see you're in agreement with me at all. What I see is all you spin my point around.
Example: I disagree individual midfielder and his partner can control the game, tempo without good passing options. We didn't agree (?). You brought up how Carrick could do it. I brought up similar game to show it was not the case. We didn't agree (?). You talked about that the game under SAF that we had more control by creating more chance. We didn't agree (?). You talked about how Soton throughoutly dominated this game. We didn't agree. You changed back that chance creation is not the key to judge domination, how team control the game, tempo (I was the one to agree at this one point). This point is contradictory to your last point.
I don't get where you from your side agree with me at all. Yet I keep seeing you talk about us being in agreement and I disagree when we're on the same page. This happened in the other thread too. I called this as you make spin on my point. How can I be in agreement yet pretty much every point I made is counter your point? Same with your point being the counter mine?
Strange to say the least...
@Mike09
I just saw your edit and saw the pics.
You know what? Matic was trying to pass to Lukaku and got intercepted. Matic did it badly there with his right foot, but was not your point about him not trying too pass to Lukaku? Matic's vision
Am I reading your post wrong?
I just saw your edit and saw the pics.
You know what? Matic was trying to pass to Lukaku and got intercepted. Matic did it badly there with his right foot, but was not your point about him not trying too pass to Lukaku? Matic's vision
Am I reading your post wrong?
https://ibb.co/mRrQKQ
https://ibb.co/k0W365
Funny enough but you couldn't even understand a single thing what I'm trying to say. With simple explanation it's enough for me to explain what I meant to el3mel and we both in an agreement as we both understood.
But you just jumped into conclusion. I already told you I never disagree with what you said about our players also didn't give him an option. But also there is also times and times when players gave him an option but he was unable to pick that players. For example the two images when Lukaku wanted the ball and there was a huge space in front of Lukaku but Matic failed to pass the ball to him.
And I have also mentioned that he couldn't control the tempo mainly because he was never the man who control the tempo like maestro or other playmakers due to his vision. That's why he needed Pogba who has better vision and passing ability today next to him. Carrick was a different type of player than Matic. Carrick's job was to dictate the tempo as a deeplying playmaker and that's why I used him as an example. While Matic's task isn't the same.
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