Neymar | 2015/2016

[K2K]

This whole shirt sales talk is just pathetic. Using Kitbag's sales from July to September to justify that Memphis sells more shirts than Neymar, and concluding that automatically he just needs to come to the PL. Because you know, sells more shirts and stuff.

It is nonsensical, but for the record not all of us suffer from the same delusions.

 

[cyberman]

Jesus nobody is saying anything of the sort. The point is that being in a team where he isn't the focal point of every marketing campaign hurts his sales.
If Beckham and Ronaldo played in the same side today for example they would both damage each other merchandise sales. It's not as if Barcelona or Uniteds fanbase are going to buy 2 shirts.

And yes most shirts are sold between July and Seltember, that's when new kits come out and fans get their new stars names in their back. It's not a leap nor is it this ridiculously short timeframe. It's their busiest period ffs.
Nobody is saying join United and become as big as Depay or anything.

 

[Arruda]

Could he go to Real Madrid? We're due something like that for a while, since Figo. I called it here.

 

[K2K]

Could he go to Real Madrid? We're due something like that for a while, since Figo. I called it here.

Would be a shocker, but cant see it.

This is how Barca reacted when they lost Figo

Barcelona's new president, Joan Gaspart, was left stunned by the deal.

"We aren't going to start anything but, and I don't want this to sound like a threat, I'm not going to forget this," he said.
"Someone who does this to me will pay for it."

From stories at the time, and from Figo himself, he claims he had "no choice" but to join Real

The next move for Perez was to find a go-between, and Paulo Futre, who won a European Cup with Porto in 1987, served the purpose. Futre offered Perez the opportunity to make an agreement with Figo. If Perez won the election and Figo refused to leave Barcelona, Figo would pay a penalty fee of 5 billion pesetas (around £22 million or $34 million).

If Perez lost the election, Figo would keep 400 million pesetas (around £1.7 million) and no one would be the wiser. It was money for jam. Meanwhile, Perez deposited 10 billion pesetas (£44 million), which was the value of Figo’s buyout clause and a world-record transfer fee, at the Spanish Football Federation. Then Perez waited for word to get out, per Relano's Nacidos Para Incordiarse.

Then it happened. Perez—who had also campaigned on a pledge to tidy up Real Madrid’s finances after the club leaked €50 million losses on a turnover of €120 million that year, per research for my book El Clasico—was announced as president on July 16, 2000. He won the election by a few hundred votes.

Six days later, Gaspart was elected president of Barcelona. Figo knocked on his door. According to Gaspart, the Portugal international begged him to undo the deal with Perez, stressing that his agent, Veiga, had been outwitted and was "suicidal" with worry.

"It was a surprise Florentino won," says Ramon Calderon, who worked as a director under Perez for six years and later was Madrid president from 2006 to 2009. "There were two or three days with a lot of confusion. Veiga tried to give back the money [to Perez]. Veiga had a big penalty clause so he said to Figo, 'If you don’t accept this, I’m going to be bankrupt. I can’t pay. I’ll be ruined.' I imagine it was like that."

It was Gaspart’s first day in the job. He was powerless. What was he to do? Pay the penalty clause so Real Madrid’s members could watch football for free at the Bernabeu the following season?

Perez had outmaneuvered Figo, who let his agents act for him.

"You have to know what your agent is signing on your behalf, which is one of the basic rules of representation. Otherwise you can be [compromised] or get involved in something very uncomfortable for yourself," says Ivan Corretja, who works as an agent for Xavi Hernandez and several of Barca’s current players.

"I think he was taking everything like a joke: 'Ah, come on. This is impossible. This is not going to happen.’ But it was very serious. It was not a game. It was his profession, his life."

Figo would have to play the cards that were dealt to him. He’d be playing his football at the Bernabeu the next season, although he did come back to Camp Nou to play occasionally.

Barca would never do business with Real, so it would require another kind of dodgy deal for this to occur.

 

[Arruda]

Interesting @K2K . José Veiga was the first "super-agent" I remember, far before Jorge Mendes was even talked about, but quickly vanished to the fringes. Probably that deal had a lot to do with it, I imagine he lost all credibility to players.

Obviously I don't think that is likely at all, it was just a cheeky post to make me look clairvoyant if the unlikeliest ever happens. Neymar's buyout clause is grand, but I am not 100% sure it's beyond Real's ability to pay it. Barcelona wouldn't have to "deal" with them in that scenario - in fact, they'd be outright unable to.

 

[K2K]

Interesting @K2K . José Veiga was the first "super-agent" I remember, far before Jorge Mendes was even talked about, but quickly vanished to the fringes. Probably that deal had a lot to do with it, I imagine he lost all credibility to players.

Obviously I don't think that is likely at all, it was just a cheeky post to make me look clairvoyant if the unlikeliest ever happens. Neymar's buyout clause is grand, but I am not 100% sure it's beyond Real's ability to pay it. Barcelona wouldn't have to "deal" with them in that scenario - in fact, they'd be outright unable to.

It would be an absolute shocker, but Real are the only team that arguably would be seen as a step up for him from Barca.

Real would pay it, from that same article , its obvious that buying Figo was about more than just the player. Buying Neymar would be a symbolic statement.

Real Madrid fans didn’t want to buy Figo to love him...[they were thinking] ’No, we will buy one of those Cules just to prove to ourselves that we can do it, to exercise our power, but deep inside we despise this guy because he’s a traitor. We will buy him just for the sake of f---ing the opposition.'"

As for Veiga, he put Figo in an unenviable position,and perhaps that was led to his demise. Perez was far too smart for them.

 

[cyberman]

Didn't the clause turn out to be a bluff?
Figo has since said his agent was threatened with jail so he had to go through with it only to discover later that it wasn't possible and he fell for it.

 

[B20]

Ah, what Braziian doesn't dream of trudging the litter - strewn streets of Manchester in the pissing rain, appreciating the architectural delights of the Arndale whilst looking for a restaurant that serves brand - name brown sauce?
Toothless Scottish harmonica players shouting a chorus of "Gettifeck! " as they entertain the bourgeoisie in their jogging pants or fishing for shopping trollies on the Irwell banks?
God knows why he diverted to Barcelona on his way here. Maybe he hadn't seen the "Curry and a pint" deal that Weatherspoons were offering.

Yep.

 

[Avatar]

Only the issue with the taxes could force him out. This is the only reason for any club to have a chance of signing him , and it's a pretty good one. I'm personally concerned with all these cases and taxation stuff.

Other than that he's not leaving Barca for reasons like Messi being the star or something, Neymar is a Messi fan.

 

[Treble]

Some nice graphics:

Update please.

 

[FCBarca]

MOTM performance yesterday doing more than scoring but creating a number of scoring chances. Messi is still recovering but you do get the sense that we are entering the Neymar era

 

[Treble]

MOTM performance yesterday doing more than scoring but creating a number of scoring chances. Messi is still recovering but you do get the sense that we are entering the Neymar era

Same here.

 

[FCBarca]

Same here.

I remember in his first season for Barcelona when Messi was also injured, Neymar had already had a bright start to his Barcelona career from that left wing but I think it surprised many how easily/rapidly he transitioned into the central playmaker role ala Messi during that time. Right then & there I saw the future, Neymar would play that free role like Messi has now and Leo would drift into the midfield.

Soon, I see that to be the next stage in the evolution of this team. A big reason why I think there remains room in this squad for a pacy winger to get significant minutes - I hope it will be Deulofeu

 

[JaffyJoe]

He's amazing but Messi is still on an

MOTM performance yesterday doing more than scoring but creating a number of scoring chances. Messi is still recovering but you do get the sense that we are entering the Neymar era

His time will come but not yet. Messi is still the King.

 

[Treble]

Opta stats about the last 10 games:

13 goals, 8 assists, and 53 created chances

 

[VorZakone]

Opta stats about the last 10 games:

13 goals, 8 assists, and 53 created chances

Hazard still better though.

 

[Amethyst]

Hazard still better though.

Read somewhere that Neymar has scored 26 goals since Hazard last got one.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Opta stats about the last 10 games:

13 goals, 8 assists, and 53 created chances

That's bloody insane! To make it even more impressive he's been running the games too, not just adding the final touch.

 

[rimaldo]

i'm just worried he gets a knock before his transfer.

 

[Cait Sith]

Update please.

Hasn't changed that much, the graphic was posted before the intl. break.

Neymar:

17 apps (La Liga + CL), 1527 minutes, 16 goals (4 pens), 8 assists, 0.94 goals per game, 1.41 goals and assists per game.

I remember in his first season for Barcelona when Messi was also injured, Neymar had already had a bright start to his Barcelona career from that left wing but I think it surprised many how easily/rapidly he transitioned into the central playmaker role ala Messi during that time. Right then & there I saw the future, Neymar would play that free role like Messi has now and Leo would drift into the midfield.

Soon, I see that to be the next stage in the evolution of this team. A big reason why I think there remains room in this squad for a pacy winger to get significant minutes - I hope it will be Deulofeu

Personally don't see Messi ever moving to the middle. For defensive reasons alone. If you look how hard Rakitic and Iniesta are working off the ball it's hard to imagine it would end well with Messi replacing either. It already started becoming problematic when he was a false 9 and didn't put pressure at centerbacks and didn't provide the off the ball movement. All the things that Suarez brings now. Those problems would only be amplified if he were to move even deeper.

I'd also be surprised if Deulofeu ever became Barca quality but that's a different story.

 

[Treble]

Hasn't changed that much, the graphic was posted before the intl. break.

Neymar:

17 apps (La Liga + CL), 1527 minutes, 16 goals (4 pens), 8 assists, 0.94 goals per game, 1.41 goals and assists per game.



Personally don't see Messi ever moving to the middle. For defensive reasons alone. If you look how hard Rakitic and Iniesta are working off the ball it's hard to imagine it would end well with Messi replacing either. It already started becoming problematic when he was a false 9 and didn't put pressure at centerbacks and didn't provide the off the ball movement. All the things that Suarez brings now. Those problems would only be amplified if he were to move even deeper.

I'd also be surprised if Deulofeu ever became Barca quality but that's a different story.

I guess that in the games in which Messi didn't start, Neymar's ratio was higher than 1.41 though. Over the last 10 games, it was 2,1 (goals and assists) per game. Anyway, 1.41 is very close to Messi's ratio from last season.

 

[Cait Sith]

I guess that in the games in which Messi didn't start, Neymar's ratio was higher than 1.41 though. Over the last 10 games, it was 2,1 (goals and assists) per game. Anyway, 1.41 is very close to Messi's ratio from last season.

It's probably a coincidence. At the beginning of the season he had mumps and missed preseason and started a bit slow. In one of the intl. breaks where he was still suspended from his Copa America red card he stayed in Barcelona and did special preseason training. From then on he was visibly on fire but it also coincided with Messi getting injured.

 

[kouroux]

The goals and assists aside, he's become such a spectacular player to watch. I hope he never loses this kinda football.

 

[Stack]

The goals and assists aside, he's become such a spectacular player to watch. I hope he never loses this kinda football.

Throughout all these threads everyone is fixated with stats etc but very few just watch him play (and others) and judge him soley on what he can do and does with the ball. Its like most people are missing the soul of football a lot of the time.

 

[kouroux]

Throughout all these threads everyone is fixated with stats etc but very few just watch him play (and others) and judge him soley on what he can do and does with the ball. Its like most people are missing the soul of football a lot of the time.

He's filling the Ronaldinho void of magical players with end product.

 

[Cait Sith]

Throughout all these threads everyone is fixated with stats etc but very few just watch him play (and others) and judge him soley on what he can do and does with the ball. Its like most people are missing the soul of football a lot of the time.

It's just easier to post stats than making and uploading gifs. But I'll probably do it soon for the sake of the soul of football.

 

[Stack]

It's just easier to post stats than making and uploading gifs. But I'll probably do it soon for the sake of the soul of football.

Sorry, I wasnt having a go at you. It was just a general observation. I use stats etc as well. Sometimes its just nice to appreciate a player based on what we see with our eyes.

 

[cyberman]

Here's a question. If Barca can only afford to keep one of Messi or Neymar on the wage bill, who do you choose?
Do you sweet talk Neymar when he's sold as a Barca legend and hope he rejoins when Messi slows down or do you sell Messi to provide funds for a future rebuild around Neymar? (Its not a young team)
For me you have to go with Messi. Who knows if Neymar drops off in future as per usual Brazilian superstars.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Here's a question. If Barca can only afford to keep one of Messi or Neymar on the wage bill, who do you choose?
Do you sweet talk Neymar when he's sold as a Barca legend and hope he rejoins when Messi slows down or do you sell Messi to provide funds for a future rebuild around Neymar? (Its not a young team)
For me you have to go with Messi. Who knows if Neymar drops off in future as per usual Brazilian superstars.

It's not really a difficult choice. Even considering age difference you'd simply be crazy to choose Neymar.

 

[Cait Sith]

Sorry, I wasnt having a go at you. It was just a general observation. I use stats etc as well. Sometimes its just nice to appreciate a player based on what we see with our eyes.

All fine, didn't take it like that. But you're actually right, a player like Neymar deserves more visual than statistical exposure.

 

[carvajal]

According to As Florentino wants to try to sign Neymar, selling Cristiano and paying 190 m€. Sport/Mundo Deportivo both say in the cover of tomorrow that he rejected the offer since he will renew very soon.
Madrid must try to get the best players in the world so this move was inevitable. I would be surprised if the renewal is before the summer.
It´s very difficult but I don´t see it impossible, what do you think?

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[The United Irishman]

According to As Florentino wants to try to sign Neymar, selling Cristiano and paying 190 m€. Sport/Mundo Deportivo both say in the cover of tomorrow that he rejected the offer since he will renew very soon.
Madrid must try to get the best players in the world so this move was inevitable. I would be surprised if the renewal is before the summer.
It´s very difficult but I don´t see it impossible, what do you think?

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Can't see it myself

 

[Womp]

According to As Florentino wants to try to sign Neymar, selling Cristiano and paying 190 m€. Sport/Mundo Deportivo both say in the cover of tomorrow that he rejected the offer since he will renew very soon.
Madrid must try to get the best players in the world so this move was inevitable. I would be surprised if the renewal is before the summer.
It´s very difficult but I don´t see it impossible, what do you think?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

No chance, he'll get much more success at Barca. If he leaves it'll be for a team outside of Spain for the tax issues.

 

[cyberman]

More chance of Madrid signing me tbh.
There is no rule in football saying Madrid have to sign the best players in the world. This isn't early 2000 any more, the days of Madrid making offers to clubs they cant refuse are over.
Madrid will sign Hazard and fool the world that he's worth the 80 odd million they pay for him to keep the machine going

 

[carvajal]

More chance of Madrid signing me tbh.
There is no rule in football saying Madrid have to sign the best players in the world. This isn't early 2000 any more, the days of Madrid making offers to clubs they cant refuse are over.
Madrid will sign Hazard and fool the world that he's worth the 80 odd million they pay for him to keep the machine going

In this case Barcelona would not even have the option to accept or reject , that´s the point of the release clauses, and that´s why it is so important that he doesn´t renew the contract

 

[cyberman]

In this case Barcelona would not even have the option to accept or reject , that´s the point of the release clauses, and that´s why it is so important that he doesn´t renew the contract

Why would he go to a lesser side in the same league though?
He is revered in Barca, if he does leave it would be to United imo and then possibly Madrid 4/5 years in the future.
Its an unnecessary headache to have if he did join Madrid.

 

[carvajal]

Why would he go to a lesser side in the same league though?
He is revered in Barca, if he does leave it would be to United imo and then possibly Madrid 4/5 years in the future.
Its an unnecessary headache to have if he did join Madrid.

That depends on his desire for prominence and global impact, or the urgency to reach it. Perhaps the global impact and prominence that Cristiano searched in the past.
Of course there is no rule saying that the best players have to play in Madrid , but the biggest club should keep the best players, or at least try it.
I agree, if he doesn´t renew, United could also be a candidate.

 

[cyberman]

That depends on his desire for prominence and global impact, or the urgency to reach it. Perhaps the global impact and prominence that Cristiano searched in the past.
Of course there is no rule saying that the best players have to play in Madrid , but the biggest club should keep the best players, or at least try it.
I agree, if he doesn´t renew, United could also be a candidate.

I don't see that with Ronaldo. He was already a megastar with United who would have become just as big at any other club post United. He was too self absorbed not to.
Madrid tend to sign megastars, not create them.
This transfer is like Ronaldo signing for Barca instead of United back in 2003. He's a perfect and natural fit for Madrid but is at the one club they cant get to.

 

[Snow]

Why would he go to a lesser side in the same league though?
He is revered in Barca, if he does leave it would be to United imo and then possibly Madrid 4/5 years in the future.
Its an unnecessary headache to have if he did join Madrid.

Luis Enrique, Ronaldo, Michael Laudrup, Figo, Schuster, Hagi. Plenty of big names played for both clubs for one reason or another. It's not completely unfeasible to think that it might happen.

 

[Treble]

Throughout all these threads everyone is fixated with stats etc but very few just watch him play (and others) and judge him soley on what he can do and does with the ball. Its like most people are missing the soul of football a lot of the time.

Thing is people see very different things and when one comes up with controversial claims the best way to back them is to provide facts and stats serve exactly this purpose. I've expressed earlier the highly controversial claim that Neymar is much closer to Messi in terms of ability to influence games than most peope realise and therefore I used some stats to show that it is not as outlandish as most tend to think. Of course, stats do not tell the whole story and allow different interpretations, etc. The most important thing about Neymar is that he is both very productive, especially in big games, and quite great to watch. Long may it continue because such players elevate football to art. For this reason, Ronaldinho was my favourite player a decade ago.