You are free to do either you will just look silly.
N'Golo Kante | Chelsea Player
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You are wrong. I watched him play for Shakhar and he clearly played as one of two defensive midfielders, along side Stepanenko like I said. This is easily verifiable by look at games from whoscored.com. For example:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ue-2017-2018-Manchester-City-Shakhtar-Donetsk
Look at the player positions. He is listed as defensive midfielder. Because his average position is very deep, behind both full backs and even slightly deeper than Stepanenko in this game.
You are also wrong about Fernandinho not being a DM for them and I also think you are wrong about claiming Fred used to be an attacking midfielder.
Typical.
So Kante can't be criticized?
You might want to watch the heat map again, you will notice that both players have very different ones. Then since you used Whoscored, check his rating and take into account the fact that Shakthar were dominated in terms of possession. Also, you told me that you didn't watch Shakthar.
Of course you can but it has to make sense, like with every other players.
Are you being obtuse?
Firstly I was talking about the average positions.
They show Fred (8) play alongside, actually slightly deeper, than Stepanenko (6). It's the same two defensive midfielder set-up that Fred almost always played in for Shaktar. All the heat maps show is the same thing, both players spent most of their time in their own half, both listed by the website as playing DM.
Secondly I said I didn't watch him 'before Shaktar'. This was in response to you claiming he played as an attacking midfielder before joining them. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. However after doing some googling I can find numerous references to him playing as a defensive midfielder for his prior club, Internacional. For example:
Which is why I now believe you were also wrong about that claim as well.ESPN said:
I said that he played as an attacking midfielder before playing as a box to box which he did and which is written in your quote. He also played there for Shakthar from time to time before Fernandinho's move to City, he then replaced Fernandinho.Are you being obtuse?
Firstly I was talking about the average positions.
They show Fred (8) play alongside, actually slightly deeper, than Stepanenko (6). It's the same two defensive midfielder set-up that Fred almost always played in for Shaktar. All the heat maps show is the same thing, both players spent most of their time in their own half, both listed by the website as playing DM.
Secondly I said I didn't watch him 'before Shaktar'. This was in response to you claiming he played as an attacking midfielder before joining them. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. However after doing some googling I can find numerous references to him playing as a defensive midfielder for his prior club, Internacional. For example:
Which is why I now believe you were also wrong about that claim as well.
Edit: I'm mixing Fernando and Fernandinho.
I will put the link to an early Shakhtar game since you think that I'm lying. https://video.shakhtar.com/en/v5308
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Bingo
Think people forget the Championship technical ability is not the same as in Sunday league...
Death Row United
I got called out for criticizing Kante earlier in the thread.
Seems you can't be negative about the golden boy, even when he is having an average to poor season.
They were even suggesting on TV last night that his four goal return is proof he is growing into his new role,
The lad can do no wrong for some.
Overrated is the word I'd use.
Effective in one role, not quite so in many others.
Criticizing as long as it's done fairly, is welcome on the Caf
I think it’s totally fair to criticize him, like with any player. However, I think when people make statements like “kantes vision, passing and shooting is championship level” people will rightfully object.
Why is he average or poor this season?
edit: Look like his stats got lower accross the board. I see.
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Kante can be criticised of course but it has to be constructive.
For the last 4 years he's been a world class player winning major honours every season so its only natural that his criticism will be challenged. The same way certain posters try to attack Kane or Salah whenever they go through a period of poor form is what's happening to Kante.
Oppotunistic criticism borne of a personal dislike or tribalism will be challenged but constructive criticism is fine.
Kante is not going through a period of poor form, he's being played in situations he is not suited to. Hazard is great going from the left but is half the player as a false striker, which is a similar effect.
It's blindingly obvious, but some seem to have elevated Kante to the new Zico or something. Acting as if he's pulling all the strings and is 'proving the doubters wrong' when its clear that he is not effective as an attacking midfielder.
Kante is the best defensive no.8 in the world. One of the best midfielders playing right now for a counter attacking setup. Unfortunately he's playing in a positional based team that has no place for that type of player, so he's doing a job in a different role.
It's blindingly obvious, but some seem to have elevated Kante to the new Zico or something. Acting as if he's pulling all the strings and is 'proving the doubters wrong' when its clear that he is not effective as an attacking midfielder.
Kante is the best defensive no.8 in the world. One of the best midfielders playing right now for a counter attacking setup. Unfortunately he's playing in a positional based team that has no place for that type of player, so he's doing a job in a different role.
That's not happening though is it? You and others can pretend to be impartial, but there's a partisan segment of support here that will attack anyone who doesn't see the player to the level that they do. I called Kante a world class ball winner, and questioned his contribution further forward, which is reflected in the downturn in his stats and the dialogue surrounding the player this season. Could I have selected less ambiguous wording? Yes, but the crux of the point remains, and if anything, some people are doing an enormous disservice to the quality found in the championship. He has decent touch, passing and vision, but those traits wouldn't be enough on their own for him to be premier league standard - in my opinion. It's his tackling, interceptions, workrate and defensive awareness that not only makes him Premier League standard, but one of the best in the world. Playing him further forward nullifies his strengths and plays on the weaker aspects of his game.
You might not agree with my assessment, but it certainly doesnt deserve the incredulous push back I've received.
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Such a silly argument.
Saying his passing and vision is championship quality is like saying mushrooms aren't great as a main course or an intel CPU isn't great at running graphics heavy games. It tells us nothing because it's just a component of the whole and is wholly irrelevant unless you're the manager picking the system, the chef making the meal, or the technician building the computer.
Hence a straw man comment to say he couldn't play Herrera's role due to these factors, unless you are claiming they would do the exact same job and be in the exact same positions at all times.
He's a midfielder and a cog in a team, hence team sport. Nobody has claimed he is prime Iniesta. [or perhaps they have but i've not read that]
Saying his passing and vision is championship quality is like saying mushrooms aren't great as a main course or an intel CPU isn't great at running graphics heavy games. It tells us nothing because it's just a component of the whole and is wholly irrelevant unless you're the manager picking the system, the chef making the meal, or the technician building the computer.
Hence a straw man comment to say he couldn't play Herrera's role due to these factors, unless you are claiming they would do the exact same job and be in the exact same positions at all times.
He's a midfielder and a cog in a team, hence team sport. Nobody has claimed he is prime Iniesta. [or perhaps they have but i've not read that]
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Kante has better vision and playmaking ability than people think. It’s just that he is so incredibly good at other aspects that some people can’t register that fact. Just in this Chelsea side he is more likely to make the right decision with the ball than Barkley or Kovacic are imo.
After all this chest thumping, what a way to end it. You did bring it on yourself.
Agreed, he isn't championship level!!
He's poor by his previous standards, there's no getting away from that!!
Kante has 15 assists in 280 odd games. His playmaking is bang average. His goalscoring is not far behind and is also average.
Asking Kante to play passing triangles in tight spaces is asking for trouble, he regularly loses the ball because that's not his game. He is a direct player, nicks the ball and then attacks the space, usually ending in a simple forward pass to someone better suited to attacking.
I massively rate Kante, I'd take him without a doubt at United. But I'm not going to act as if he's got everything a midfielder needs. He's found a niche and has made it his own.
Right on cue. Case in point!
Some oppo players get better treatment than ours.
I think he does that pretty well, actually. And stats seem to confirm the eye test: His passing % is almost the same as in the two PL seasons before, despite the fast short passing style and playing in higher zones more frequently. Turnovers are higher, but within the range I'd expect from most players when playing more offensively.
2018/19 - 88.0% - 3.1 turnovers per 90
2017/18 - 89.3% - 2.6 turnovers per 90
2016/17 - 88.8% - 2.1 turnovers per 90
So that's about 0.5 bad passes and 1 turnover more per game than 16/17 (his best season) - no big deal, imo. His offensive repertoire has its limits of course, but he's far from being out of his depth from a technical POV in Sarri's style.
I agree with Sarri. Kante should not be the deepest midfielder. He is a ball winner, you do not have to be the deepest midfielder to win the ball back.
Kante conundrum: always looks good against weaker opposition in higher up pitch position, Huddersfield, tonight, despite couple of loose touche passes etc. Offers virtually nothing against any good team though, City, Utd, Arsenal away etc.
Definitely not suited to the deep midfield position in Sarri system.
Definitely not suited to the deep midfield position in Sarri system.
Prime Essien would have proud of a performance like that he brought tonight.
The "he's a DM" nonsense will be on the backburner till Sunday at the earliest.
The "he's a DM" nonsense will be on the backburner till Sunday at the earliest.
It ain't nonsense.
It is going to come up again the first bad result.
Or when he faces up against Ander again
The last time he played as a lone DM for Chelsea it went so well we changed the entire system.
Very true, don't know why people forget this. Even then I think people complained that it wasn't his position too. He does need to be more defensive and help out Jorginho in this setup though but I didn't see todays game.
Playing as a DM and as a "lone DM" are very different things bro
Wow, he looks a shadow of the player he once did.
Err what? I thought he had a brilliant game against spurs. Was an attacking threat but also got some great tackles in. What more do you guys want from him?!
Bit of a strange comment after another MOTM performance.
He played well last night but you cant seriously believe what Sarri is asking of him is the best use of his ability? That's the crux of the matter
His positioning as RCM is perfect, he never was and while at his prime never will be a DM in midfield three as he is at his best when he has a freedom to press. The problem this season is that he has two players on his side that offer very little offensive wise, specially on the ball so he found himself when i was watching at least either far right, almost like a right mid or in the final third almost like a number 10....
I don't judge players on a game-by-game basis. He has had several poor spells this season and looks nothing like the player he was. This is mainly down to tactics, of course.