"Not Ready, Not Mentally Prepared, Not Committed".

[sugar_kane]

Despite the press narrative, Mourinho is almost always positive about our players and performances, praising their attitude and drive even when they haven't merited it.

Personally I'm glad he's finally calling them out, they've deserved it for a while. It would be sweet for some of our legends or even Fergie to back him up public ally. Sadly this is fairly unlikely.

 

[Lentwood]

The power is not with anyone really. Everyone is highly dependent on each other. We in fact are one of the very few clubs where the manager has a lot of power, maybe only Wenger has more power than Mourinho in English football. That's still nowhere near the power that Sir Alex had of course but that simply cannot be replicated. Sir Alex had that power because first of all, he was dealing with players who come from a culture where the manager is the boss, it was old school British work hard and respect the boss culture. The second half of his career when mentalities changed and footballers standing changed, the great man himself changed with the time and became more measured in his approach. He became more selective of who he brought in trying to make sure he brought in the right obedient type of players because he understood that you cannot threaten or bench employers who are on big fat contracts for that long. He fell out with Van Nistelrooy and Beckham long before they were gone and if you remember, he did not stop playing them and they still got good moves afterwards. Not to mention that Sir Alex had more credit in his locker at that time in his career than any manager working today which gave him unprecedented immunition.

It is for these reasons that this is an issue that cannot really change now. Part of your job as a manager nowadays is to be smart enough when it comes to who you bring in in terms of attitude as much as ability + be diplomatic enough to have more people on your side than against you. This is the case everywhere and the reason no top clubs build around the manager as they know that no human being can possibly keep being successful and still friendly with a dozen+ highly paid egotistical professionals for long enough.

I can understand what you are getting at in that we need to find players with the right attitude but it's not easy is it. Martial had a great attitude when he arrived, look at him now. We've seen the likes of Depay, Lingard & Pogba more arsed about pissing around on Instagram than winning football matches. It's partly because WE (the club) encourage it. Look at the way the Pogba transfer was handled. We actively worked with Adidas to play out the whole thing like a bloody soap opera whodunnit with cryptic clues and social media posts. Then we had that daft video. It's no wonder the lad thinks he's God and only has to turn up and stroll around to see off lowly Fenerbache

The bit I disagree with is that you can't bench (I know you mean isolate rather than drop) players on expensive contracts. Why not? I would absolutely love us to shove Martial in the Reserves for a year. Let everybody forget about him. No France squad, no marketing endorsements, forced to train with the kids. Then at the start of next pre-season I would call him in and say you are back in the first team as of now. Let me down even once and your going back to playing on a Tuesday night against Bury Reserves. I am sure the money men would claim this is not way to treat an "asset" but I think a line needs to be drawn in the sand now. Play the players who fight for the shirt. Make them feel like they have to turn up every single day and be the best player in the squad to keep their place

 

[Roosney]

LOL at the meltdown in this thread (and in the others as well).
But I have to say Jose is absolutely right. Somewhere around the 60 minute mark I paid attention to our pressing and it was pretty laughable. Our players kind of jogged at the ball just for show and immediately stopped any movement as the ball/player passed them.

 

[2 man midfield]

Players have needed this for a while. If they don't respond, he'll go and find players that will. Simple as that.

 

[sugar_kane]

Also for all the closet Klopp fans on here, he has also said similar about his players in the recent past:

 

[Garethw]

I think this squad needs yo be told their long term places are on the line.

Agreed. I said the same thing last night. They need a wake up call of the highest order.

 

[Dans]

I see many are criticizing the players without taking into consideration that the atmosphere and the setup of the team directly influence the confidence of each player. Confidence and mental strenght are a product of a great working environment, more than something individual. That is the case in every team sport, be it football, handball, basketball & others.

I guess you could have made a case about De Bruyne lacking mental strenght and ambition to succeed at Chelsea under Mourinho. Was that really the case? No. Most players aren't naturally confident or have natural warrior mentality, but can shine and become winners in an environment that cultivates these traits.

To that then I have to add that our american owners and our ceo who is only interested in our next pillow and duvet partner is are not really helping. We were a footall club once upon a time, now we are just a commercial enterprise and the players employees (albeit ridiculously well rewarded ones).

 

[Dans]

LOL at the meltdown in this thread (and in the others as well).
But I have to say Jose is absolutely right. Somewhere around the 60 minute mark I paid attention to our pressing and it was pretty laughable. Our players kind of jogged at the ball just for show and immediately stopped any movement as the ball/player passed them.

Yes - I thought that too. Absolutely no movement, no will.

 

[Treble]

LOL at the meltdown in this thread (and in the others as well).
But I have to say Jose is absolutely right. Somewhere around the 60 minute mark I paid attention to our pressing and it was pretty laughable. Our players kind of jogged at the ball just for show and immediately stopped any movement as the ball/player passed them.

That's easy to explain given that many of those players played vs Chelsea, City, Burnley and Fener within what, 10 days? Even Livepool players wouldn't be able to press if they played so many games in such a short period.

 

[red4ever 79]

I am still enjoying the matches this season more than last season truth be told. I think we move the ball quicker. Jose is absolutely going to strengthen further so we need to be patient guys. Bunch of players will go in the summer. What concerns me the most at the moment is the apparent lack of fight and determination and this is something I always associated with Mourinho teams in the past. I think we have a lack of characters in the team and that needs addressing

 

[legball]

If the players are not committed, it's the players.
If the team is mentally fragile, it's the manager.
If the team is not prepared, it's the manager.

But I'm happy Mourinho criticized them, it's the least they deserve for being absolute idiots lacking in ambition for 3 years.

 

[legball]

I am still enjoying the matches this season more than last season truth be told. I think we move the ball quicker. Jose is absolutely going to strengthen further so we need to be patient guys. Bunch of players will go in the summer. What concerns me the most at the moment is the apparent lack of fight and determination and this is something I always associated with Mourinho teams in the past. I think we have a lack of characters in the team and that needs addressing

This is the scary part, this is one reason I think he might be past it. The defensive organization & grit that you see in every Mourinho team is lacking in this one, and it was lacking in his Chelsea team last season.

 

[CS@SG]

He didn't wanted Mkhitaryan. Mino Raiola included him and Ibra in Pogba's deal this summer.

I think that Valencia, Bailly, Pogba, Herrera, Fellaini and Ibra are fighting for him.

Not sure about the English (Shaw, Smalling, Rooney and Carrick)

And I'm quite sure the others are feeling left aside by his management (Martial, Mata, Schneiderlin, Rojo, Memphis...)

I think that he should get rid of 3,4 players this winter (Morgan, Memphis, Young and Basti) and the rest this summer (Jones, Rojo, Rooney, Carrick and Darmian) in order to buy and work only with his type of players.

De Gea

New Right Back
New Center Back
Bailly
Blind/Shaw
New Midfielder
Pogba
Herrera
Mkhi
New Winger
New Striker/Ibra

Do you have anything to back that up?

 

[blue blue]

His comments seem self critical. He should be creating an atmosphere which cultivates readiness, confidence and commitment. I think modern players are different and a more collaborative approach to managing is required. Jose appears dictatorial. The recent dressing room leak indicated that he doesn't spend so much time with the players and he leaves a lot to the support staff. He needs to roll his managerial sleeves up and form some healthy relationships with key players. At the moment there aren't enough leaders on the pitch when there clearly are potential leaders in the squad. I'm thinking Zlatan, Pogba, Herrera and possibly a few others. These guys are world class players. They should be fighting for the cause but appear to lack confidence at the moment. These are his players and he just isn't getting the best out of them.

He will not curry favour with the players by criticising them in the media and some will resent this. I don't recall him doing this in his successful past. If he turns this around it will be his biggest achievement to date but I fear the worst as I can't see the board putting up with poor results and huge transfer fees for long. They might back him in January but you always pay more and don't always get the best players in that window. Results need to start improving now. Victory at Swansea is critical because its Arsenal after that.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Do you have anything to back that up?

Only L'Equipe, RMC and France Football. Phillipe Auclair told that during a show two weeks ago and he was backed by Vincent Duluc too.

If these two confirms it, I tend to say this

Mino Raiola this the same at PSG with Zlatan, Maxwell and Matuidi's extension

 

[CS@SG]

Only L'Equipe, RMC and France Football. Phillipe Auclair told that during a show two weeks ago and he was backed by Vincent Duluc too.

If these two confirms it, I tend to say this

Mino Raiola this the same at PSG with Zlatan, Maxwell and Matuidi's extension

If it is true, that is sad and disappointing. Just for Pogba......

 

[Catt]

Also for all the closet Klopp fans on here, he has also said similar about his players in the recent past:

But Klopp is likable.

 

[Smores]

You mean the player with world highest transfer fee, or the striker with 50 goals in previous season, or the German league player of the year, are not able to elevate the rest through their own performance?

Thats exactly what im saying. Personally i never expected Pogba or Ibra to carry us this season given one is young and inconsistent and the other 35. Jose probably thought Rooney would be that person but that didn't last long.

Our attack is packed full of prospects or players past their peak, the only one is Mata.

We either have to accept we're waiting for the youngsters to hit their level or go out and sign someone to carry them. Ibra is the very definition of a stop gap and Rooney is on his way out, Jose will spend but he couldn't do it all in one window.

Also It pisses me off that people go on about playing the youngsters or this and that player but then when they dont perform there's no reflection that maybe the manager was right.

 

[Chaky_Best]

If it is true, that is sad and disappointing. Just for Pogba......

I think that's a what you get when you're working with Raiola or Mendes. He sells you one good player and 2 other.

Mkhitaryan is a top player nevertheless but I think that Mou doesn't want him because it wasn't his choice

 

[Crossie]

Only L'Equipe, RMC and France Football. Phillipe Auclair told that during a show two weeks ago and he was backed by Vincent Duluc too.

If these two confirms it, I tend to say this

Mino Raiola this the same at PSG with Zlatan, Maxwell and Matuidi's extension

Unless Auclair and Duluc have the same source.

As you may know, this rumor is around in Germany, too, but the journo is close to BVB execs; therefore, I don't trust him, as 'journos' are notorious for blowing up even a sarcastic comment which a club official might have made and wasn't meant seriously.

I therefore wonder if Auclair and Duluc have a true source. It would fit the impression I have of Minola to a 't' though.

 

[Stack]

How does he prepare a bunch of cowards who hide at the slightest hint of hard going. If they're mentally weak they're mentally weak. SAF had some average players like Cleverley in his last season but they were mentally strong and put up a fight. These bunch just collapse when something goes wrong. It's hard to prepare them and that's why it needs more than 1 transfer window.

Its his job to motivate and inspire players. Thats what he gets paid to do.

 

[Stack]

How can he control commitment? That comes from the players desire.

He is supposed to motivate and inspire the players, thats one of the key roles of a manager. Everything starts at the top. If a team is weak its a reflection of the management.

 

[slig]

But Klopp is likable.

There is a big difference: Klopp is talking about the whole team, and dont lay on one specific player. Mourinho was talking about a specific player, a player he thowed in for the last 20min (his first apperance since when?) while his bad work showed its results yet with 2:0 down.

 

[B20]

But Klopp is likable.

Main difference is no one doubts he is fully behind his players . That used to be Mourinho's trademark too .

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Its his job to motivate and inspire players. Thats what he gets paid to do.

It is also up to players to have some profession pride and put some effort in.

 

[slig]

That used to be Mourinho's trademark too .

Was it? In my eyes, i only recognized Mourinho as someone who cant deal with a lose and his own massive faults which lasts for weeks. Mourinhos trademark for me was always that he never is behind his players, and always wants to point at someone else until the point where everybody knows thats all obviously dogshit. Ask Chelsea, ask Madrid.

 

[roonster09]

There is a big difference: Klopp is talking about the whole team, and dont lay on one specific player. Mourinho was talking about a specific player, a player he thowed in for the last 20min (his first apperance since when?) while his bad work showed its results yet with 2:0 down.

So you think Jose blamed Mkhitaryan for the defeat?

 

[slig]

So you think Jose blamed Mkhitaryan for the defeat?

He should know how media works. Isnt that a thing he claims for himself? If so, why he dont know how this words will be recognized? You think the thread "his words on Micki" came out of nowhere? There are only 2 ways:
1. He said it with conciousness
2. He said it without thinking about what this means for the media, the fans, and more important: was causes this for his shiny new 40mio€ assist and scoring machine.

Both possibilities leads to the fact, that Mourinho is dumb or a prick or both.

Every manager who sees his resposibility and with some braincells, would have said nothing about one player especially nothing about that one who only played the last 20min. Instead he would have talked about the performance as a whole, and a great manager would have protected his players, blaming himself for that or even better: blaming everyone including himself, cause its a team. Mourinho seems to doesnt know or doesnt care.

 

[roonster09]

He should know how media works. Isnt that a thing he claims for himself? If so, why he dont know how this words will be recognized? You think the thread "his words on Micki" came out of nowhere? There are only 2 ways:
1. He said it with conciousness
2. He said it without thinking about what this means for the media, the fans, and more important: was causes this for his shiny new 40mio€ assist and scoring machine.

Both possibilities leads to the fact, that Mourinho is dumb or a prick or both.

He was asked about Mkhitaryan and he simply said he should more to get into the team. I don't why everyone is so upset about that.

Also you should know how the media works, instead of check reading random quotes you should see full interview to see the context.

Asked specifically about Mkhitaryan in his post-match press conference at Sukru Saracoglu, the boss replied: "He has to do more. It’s as simple as that.

"We have big expectations at this club, lots of players for these positions and he has to play better than Mata, Lingard, Martial – he has to play better than them. It’s as simple as that.

"Every manager wants to win matches, every manager in the world wants to play the players that he thinks can help the team more, and I’m no different."

There is nothing wrong with what he said.

 

[Theonas]

I can understand what you are getting at in that we need to find players with the right attitude but it's not easy is it. Martial had a great attitude when he arrived, look at him now. We've seen the likes of Depay, Lingard & Pogba more arsed about pissing around on Instagram than winning football matches. It's partly because WE (the club) encourage it. Look at the way the Pogba transfer was handled. We actively worked with Adidas to play out the whole thing like a bloody soap opera whodunnit with cryptic clues and social media posts. Then we had that daft video. It's no wonder the lad thinks he's God and only has to turn up and stroll around to see off lowly Fenerbache

You won't find anyone on this board who agrees with you when it comes to our transfer business than me. I thought we looked and have been looking like a desperate bloke at the end of a night out willing to take whatever available and willing to pay whatever it takes. We were the equivalent of Real Madrid circa 2008, the difference being they were getting the best player in the world at that time. So I am in total agreement with you there that we looked and have been looking way too desperate in how we approached transfers and when you add that to our standing in the past couple of years, players came in feeling like they were gracing us with their fabulous presence.

The bit I disagree with is that you can't bench (I know you mean isolate rather than drop) players on expensive contracts. Why not? I would absolutely love us to shove Martial in the Reserves for a year. Let everybody forget about him. No France squad, no marketing endorsements, forced to train with the kids. Then at the start of next pre-season I would call him in and say you are back in the first team as of now. Let me down even once and your going back to playing on a Tuesday night against Bury Reserves. I am sure the money men would claim this is not way to treat an "asset" but I think a line needs to be drawn in the sand now. Play the players who fight for the shirt. Make them feel like they have to turn up every single day and be the best player in the squad to keep their place

We will disagree there. You simply can't do that. First of all, it will severely affect your chances to buy a top player again. We will be the club who treats players worse than any other. As I said in a previous post, there is a reason no club ever acts like that. It simply harms your reputation very very badly. The other issue is where do you draw the line? commitment is not something you can easily judge. What one sees as lack of commitment and passion, another sees as simply lack of quality or lack of focus, or mental weakness or whatever. How do you take decisions like that without looking hypocritical? The third issue is that players WILL win in the end. I can't imagine a player after being treated like that going "you know what! that's right, I HAVE BEEN slacking off, time to work my socks off now". That's not how humans work, we get defensive and point to how unfair it is to be singled out. If it is something that is a clear indusputed offence like Touré and Guardiola where he insulted the manager, the club has strong ground to stand on but not playing well is not a valid reason to freeze out a player like that.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Jose' words after the game.

I thought he was spot on, not happy and really hammered the team there. He's completely right to.

The team has to step up and show some fecking balls.

It's always about "showing balls" and "character" these days. Easy to blame players for that. How about focusing on playing fluid football instead? How about our inability to pass slickly and cohesively to open teams up? We may as well not be boss like mentally. But is every good team out there? Liverpool? City? Chelsea? Spurs? All teams of supreme winners and warriors eh? No, they just play better and more fluid football than us. Where we struggle to get the ball up the pitch, Liverpool have a clear plan which allows them to play with joy and cut teams open with three or four passes. City have a definite pep guarduola imprint. Jose has signed good players but made little on us tactically.

I dont like this effort to make our players seem unworkable. Mourinho signed foue first team players to fix these things. Are his four first team signings also useless mentally? How about that guy he signed, Mkhitarian. Jose must have added someone with real character to our squad right? Apparently not, according to jose.

And it's not as if our squad was full of bad eggs any way, in any version of reality. 4 or 5 of the good ones we had plus 4 of Jose's new ones, should have set things right.

All in all it reeks of excuses for jose for me.

 

[B20]

Was it? In my eyes, i only recognized Mourinho as someone who cant deal with a lose and his own massive faults which lasts for weeks. Mourinhos trademark for me was always that he never is behind his players, and always wants to point at someone else until the point where everybody knows thats all obviously dogshit. Ask Chelsea, ask Madrid.

First stint at Chelsea , absolutely. Reciprocal blowjobs all over the place. From what his players said about his stint at Inter, I think it was similar there.

Think the fact that this simply wasn't possible at Madrid because of the constant backstabbing going on did something to him.

 

[slig]

He was asked about Mkhitaryan and he simply said he should more to get into the team. I don't why everyone is so upset about that.

If he wants to be a good manager, he should have said "iam not talking about one player, makes no sense, especialy with only 20min." Instead of that he gave new feed to the media. These tiny words have an effect, they are not asking for good, they get exactly what they wanted: another "Mou thowed Micki under the bus, at least he is not satisfied with him". Mourinho made all worse. Cause he wasnt really clever (or he wanted exactly that).

 

[roonster09]

If he wants to be a good manager, he should have said "iam not talking about one player, makes no sense, especialy with only 20min." Instead of that he gave new feed to the media. These tiny words have an effect, they are not asking for good, they get exactly what they wanted: another "Mou thowed Micki under the bus, at least he is not satisfied with him". Mourinho made all worse. Cause he wasnt really clever (or he wanted exactly that).

Exactly. It's not surprising when you see posters like you reacting this way.

 

[David Court]

A bit early for Jose to be losing the dressing room?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He is correct.

Herrera and Mata are the only ones who have shown any fight this season, the rest are passengers.

Rubbish. I never see any lack of effort from Fellaini, Smalling, Shaw, Blind, Ibra, Rashford among others. Pogba can be lazy sometimes but he's Jose friggin signing and for a world record fee. Mkhitarian is apparently lacking in this department but again a Jose friggin signing.

Last season the players lacked these same things at chelsea. Funny how that doesn't seem to be the case this season? If indeed its happening at two different clubs under jose in successive seasons, then maybe he's actually part of the problem rather than thw perpetually unlucky victim?

 

[Catt]

There is a big difference: Klopp is talking about the whole team, and dont lay on one specific player. Mourinho was talking about a specific player, a player he thowed in for the last 20min (his first apperance since when?) while his bad work showed its results yet with 2:0 down.

Main difference is no one doubts he is fully behind his players . That used to be Mourinho's trademark too .

Going by what I've seen him say I don't believe he said much wrong y'day.
I'll leave it at that

 

[Lentwood]

You won't find anyone on this board who agrees with you when it comes to our transfer business than me. I thought we looked and have been looking like a desperate bloke at the end of a night out willing to take whatever available and willing to pay whatever it takes. We were the equivalent of Real Madrid circa 2008, the difference being they were getting the best player in the world at that time. So I am in total agreement with you there that we looked and have been looking way too desperate in how we approached transfers and when you add that to our standing in the past couple of years, players came in feeling like they were gracing us with their fabulous presence.


We will disagree there. You simply can't do that. First of all, it will severely affect your chances to buy a top player again. We will be the club who treats players worse than any other. As I said in a previous post, there is a reason no club ever acts like that. It simply harms your reputation very very badly. The other issue is where do you draw the line? commitment is not something you can easily judge. What one sees as lack of commitment and passion, another sees as simply lack of quality or lack of focus, or mental weakness or whatever. How do you take decisions like that without looking hypocritical? The third issue is that players WILL win in the end. I can't imagine a player after being treated like that going "you know what! that's right, I HAVE BEEN slacking off, time to work my socks off now". That's not how humans work, we get defensive and point to how unfair it is to be singled out. If it is something that is a clear indusputed offence like Touré and Guardiola where he insulted the manager, the club has strong ground to stand on but not playing well is not a valid reason to freeze out a player like that.

This is the Yaya Toure who just came back with his tail between his legs and apologised? :-)

Problem 2 solves Problem 1. Any player that doesn't want to play for us because we expect the best from our stars can immediately be filtered out. I used to talk about the "Chelsea filter" in the early 2000s. They actively pursued a policy of poaching our targets. If they chose us like Rooney, Ronaldo and Rio you knew they wanted to join the best and win trophies. If they followed the money like Mikel and Robben they were not worth bothering with

 

[Jaxdan]

The first two criticisms fall directly at Mourinho, odd thing for him to say.

Yep. Look, I'm not saying I'm giving up on him already, but I think I could start De Gea, pull 10 other names from the squad out of a hat and say have at it boys, and achieve similar results to this.

 

[Handré1990]

I had an incredibly weird dream last night, no doubt after reading a lot of new posts and threads alluding to the fact that many players are either incapable of, or won't bother showing some fighting spirit and heart. In my, and most others opinion from what I can gather, these are just as important qualities as technical and other actual footballing abilities.

Anyway, my dream was that Jaap Stam took over after Mourinho unceremoniously got sacked after a loss to Swansea. His first moves in charge? He got rid of six players, and as a result the others started running like they had the devil at their backs. Just an incredibly strange dream as I started the post with, as: 1) I don't want Mourinho to get sacked, and 2)I don't even know if Stam is managing

I really do believe we need to re-establish the mantra of manager=club, and no player is bigger than the club.

United is messing with my precious sleep, and I won't ever have a sleeping pill after a single drink ever again..