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Sorry for not being a signed up Pogba fan boy.
Yes, as long as your reason for sulking is because you want better for yourself and you know the team will be better off for you being restored to a position you feel better in.
I've got a simpler explanation.
I highly doubt whether Jose would have been able to understand a young Ronaldinho or bring him through properly. He'd have made him track all the way into left back and fallen out with him.
House on fire really? our entire team had alot of smoke blown up their ass during that early period of results, even though you could see in some games we were being overrun, but then we would grab lots of goals at the end of the game and it made us look like we were walking it. Then the Liverpool game came and we got caught with our pants down and exposed for the frauds we were.
Was Balotelli sulking for a proper reason?
Yup, if he's sulking then it's called throwing toys out of your pram.
Is Balotelli, Paul Pogba? Balotelli has failed wherever he has been.
We're great frauds tbh cause since that famous Anfield game we managed to get some points. So I guess we continued to be frauds.
So can you advise at what level of quality a player is entitled to sulk on the pitch?
If France can't find a way to play him at his best, then don't pick him, they have a extremely talented squad to pick from.
Did you forget how Sanchez sulked like a bitch at Arsenal, but now suddenly he's an uber professional and the new caf darling?
Solid retort and post that misses the point.
Yes he played very well in that period. It's absolutely insane to try and deny it and argue that it didn't happen or to argue that it was only people getting carried away (as if people aren't getting carried away with his recent down turn in form) and smacks of one of the biggest cases of revisionism I've seen on this forum (and there's been a few). You might argue he played well in spite of the formation, you might argue that he would have played better had he been played in a different formation, but he still played well and you can't wash that way because it doesn't fit comfortably with what you're arguing.
No it has every relevance. If any player sulks on the pitch then all the players think why am I busting my ass when others are not. It causes the break up of team morale.
Because I agree with you that he can play in a two to a far better level than he showed against Newcastle against weaker sides. I am not denying that.
I don’t really get this. Zidane and Ronaldinho was the best players of their generation so obviously you’d build around them to get the most out of them. That doesn’t mean you’d have to do it to get them to shine. They would’ve been bloody fantastic in any team. Btw comparing Pogba to Zidane is just ridiculous. Pogba have a very long way to go before being compared to legends of the game even though of course he’s a talented player for sure. But very unfair on Pogba.
Sure, they were big players from the off and there's was no concerted effort to find their best position...
No it wasn't, but then again it wasn't an outlier from his recent performances either. It wasn't a case of Pogba playing well against teams that didn't challenge us as much and then suddenly being awful against Spurs, he's simply been bad for coming up to a month in a whole host of different games.
I can't get hold of stats from the time at Juve, so will use a combination of heat maps from Coutinho/Iniesta compared to how we are utilising Pogba and video evidence from his time at Juventus.No it wasn't, but then again it wasn't an outlier from his recent performances either. It wasn't a case of Pogba playing well against teams that didn't challenge us as much and then suddenly being awful against Spurs, he's simply been bad for coming up to a month in a whole host of different games.
I also don't really agree with your description of Pogba's role over the season as 'deep-lying', it hasn't been. He's had the freedom to get up and down the pitch a lot, and as recently as Friday Mourinho spoke about his expectations for a box-to-box midfielder in reference to Pogba playing in midfield. Sure he's being asked to get back and defend, but he's not playing in a double pivot as a defensive midfielder like people have been saying. The only way you could possibly argue that is relying on the TV graphic at the start of the game and then by steadfastly refusing to let the evidence on the pitch inform your opinion.
As it happens we agree, although for different reasons, about the suitability of that two and Pogba's role in big games, but I simply don't see how the solution to our woes can purely be sacrificing an attacking player to 'allow' Pogba to play an incredibly similar role to the one he has played for most of the season – especially when we played a three at the weekend with Lingard and Pogba playing as deep as each other and Lingard getting through more defensive work than Pogba and nobody noticed – unless you're going to argue that by 'three' you mean Pogba as a 10 and the actual introduction of a double pivot.
In fact let me demonstrate this point properly. Here are four average position charts from our last five games (i.e I've not included the Huddersfield one because Pogba did not start). In none of these does Pogba play in a 'deep lying' position. Matic holds and Pogba has as much freedom as the number 10 (in this case obviously number 14 Lingard) to get forward. In more games than others his average position is closer to Lingard than it is to Matic.
The idea that Pogba's playing poorly because he's playing as a defensive player in a midfield two alongside Matic, whether he's supposed to be or not, is just a complete fabrication.
I have answered this for different poster, I will just repeat it again.
For one thing, I actually like Shelvey and think he gets underrated because a) looks like a cross-eyed Lord Voldemort and b) because he's a cnut.
Yet his stats - using every available metric - have improved since he left Juventus and started playing for United. Go figure.
Doesn't it just show you the absolute irrelevance of most statistics to the actual performance levels and influence on the pitch..
You’d struggle to find a player on the pitch that spend less energy than Pogba on Sunday. So, again, a poor excuse.
You can get odd results in a single stat. Not in all of them at once.
That performance v Newcastle was not normal we all know that. He simply didn't try.
Assists, key passes, tackles, distance run, sprints.....B.S for the most part.
Also the excuses fail when you just realize pogba spent the majority of the season playing the same position - and was having a good season. For the most part. Last few games he's been a mess in the same position, and the Newcastle game was pathetic.
That's not entirely true is it?
Good for him and now he's playing for Nice in the prime of his career. Are you telling me Pogba will one day be playing for Crystal Palace at the age of 28 - if he was to leave here after failing to gel with Jose?
When did Lampard play in a midfield two on a weekly basis? or get paired up with Fabregas for that matter.
Re Fabregas. I’m talking about the last time Chelsea won the league. With the same midfield partner as Pogba. Under the same manager. Playing the same system. Why can’t Pogba do the same?
Highly plausible. It's not like he hasn't got the record of lying when it comes to injuries of his own players, both Smalling and Shaw episodes spring to my mind.
Obviously this. I agree with you, but it's maddening to me how Mourinho thinks using them in similar positions will produce similar results with a completely opposite play style. City can do this because Pep always tries to dominate play, has coached a clear possession style of football with clear movement patterns all over the pitch and where/when to release the ball. They have 70% possession in every game, push up really highly and keep the space in midfield really tight, so they can play de Bruyne and Silva there and not leak chances constantly. Mourinho still doesn't have a clear style of play but it definitely doesn't involve pushing high up the pitch and dominating games on the ball. He basically tells his front 5 to push up, back 5 to sit deep and the middle is completely empty, as the graphs show.No it wasn't, but then again it wasn't an outlier from his recent performances either. It wasn't a case of Pogba playing well against teams that didn't challenge us as much and then suddenly being awful against Spurs, he's simply been bad for coming up to a month in a whole host of different games.
I also don't really agree with your description of Pogba's role over the season as 'deep-lying', it hasn't been. He's had the freedom to get up and down the pitch a lot, and as recently as Friday Mourinho spoke about his expectations for a box-to-box midfielder in reference to Pogba playing in midfield. Sure he's being asked to get back and defend, but he's not playing in a double pivot as a defensive midfielder like people have been saying. The only way you could possibly argue that is relying on the TV graphic at the start of the game and then by steadfastly refusing to let the evidence on the pitch inform your opinion.
As it happens we agree, although for different reasons, about the suitability of that two and Pogba's role in big games, but I simply don't see how the solution to our woes can purely be sacrificing an attacking player to 'allow' Pogba to play an incredibly similar role to the one he has played for most of the season – especially when we played a three at the weekend with Lingard and Pogba playing as deep as each other and Lingard getting through more defensive work than Pogba and nobody noticed – unless you're going to argue that by 'three' you mean Pogba as a 10 and the actual introduction of a double pivot.
In fact let me demonstrate this point properly. Here are four average position charts from our last five games (i.e I've not included the Huddersfield one because Pogba did not start). In none of these does Pogba play in a 'deep lying' position. Matic holds and Pogba has as much freedom as the number 10 (in this case obviously number 14 Lingard) to get forward. In more of these games than others his average position is closer to Lingard than it is to Matic.
The idea that Pogba's playing poorly because he's playing as a defensive player in a midfield two alongside Matic, whether he's supposed to be or not, is just a complete fabrication.
What I find absolutely striking above all else is when you compare the players average positions our formation in real life (i.e. not what some bozzo on at Sky thinks it is) is very close to City's 4-1-4-1 with Fernandinho and Matic taking up similar positions and De Bruyne, Silva, Lingard, and Pogba all doing the same. Obviously taking up similar average positions does not mean players performing identical roles, but perhaps I might suggest that formations on their own aren't the be all and end all?
