That's exactly the problem. He's incredibly talented but doesn't produce his best often enough, and becomes a liability when he doesn't.
6
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We agree then.
Seems like the Alexis voodoo doll has pricked our flashy exhibitionist into even more indulgence, hand-wringing and general awfulness in the last three games.
He's just a good player - who lacks the basic traits of quick-thinking, releasing the ball and a temperament that's so fragile it sometimes feels broken minutes into a game, never to be recovered for the next eighty.
He might also be sweating on a starting place for France soon (not the squad), hence the surly expressions and the head-in-the-clouds mentality.
But only one person can sort out his game - and that's him.
Just be better on the ball.
He's just a good player - who lacks the basic traits of quick-thinking, releasing the ball and a temperament that's so fragile it sometimes feels broken minutes into a game, never to be recovered for the next eighty.
He might also be sweating on a starting place for France soon (not the squad), hence the surly expressions and the head-in-the-clouds mentality.
But only one person can sort out his game - and that's him.
Just be better on the ball.
Looks like it to me.
I think the instruction for the Spurs game was to allow Sanchez to flourish with Lukaku. So Matic and Pogba had to make sure that Eriksen and Alli were contained. Pogba didn't like that he was sacrificed for Sanchez and so he downed tools. Against Newcastle he either had an injury; or had a 'protest' game because he does not like the direction the team is going to take.
Pogba has been the big fish in the team this season; but with the arrival of Sanchez who has a better mentality and more end product; Sanchez is now the big fish.
Some of the problem are on Jose. Sure Pogba would maybe do better in a midfield 3 with an advanced role.
But on the other hand I'm sure he has enough in his locker to play in a midfield 2 against weaker opposition. Midfield 3 wouldn't solve all his problems cause on of the problems right now is his mentality imo.
As it was mentioned here when he loses the ball or doesn't get a foul he stands for 2, 3 seconds and argues with the ref or waives his hands.
Also sometimes he wants to do too much by himself, trying to dribble past 2, 3 players or having those crazy shots out of nothing even when it's clear he has a block in front of him. Sometimes he dilly dallies too much with the ball, every time he played it simple, just passing around without hesitating or having too many touches he had a good game. And he had those in midfield 2 too.
I saw some posts about him not being a CM. What is he if not a CM? He's not an AM, he's a CM which operates better if closer to goal.
But on the other hand I'm sure he has enough in his locker to play in a midfield 2 against weaker opposition. Midfield 3 wouldn't solve all his problems cause on of the problems right now is his mentality imo.
As it was mentioned here when he loses the ball or doesn't get a foul he stands for 2, 3 seconds and argues with the ref or waives his hands.
Also sometimes he wants to do too much by himself, trying to dribble past 2, 3 players or having those crazy shots out of nothing even when it's clear he has a block in front of him. Sometimes he dilly dallies too much with the ball, every time he played it simple, just passing around without hesitating or having too many touches he had a good game. And he had those in midfield 2 too.
I saw some posts about him not being a CM. What is he if not a CM? He's not an AM, he's a CM which operates better if closer to goal.
Pogba in midfield 2 depends on Matic, if Matic cant do the work to provide freedom to Pogba, then issues occur for all to see. So either replace Matic or play midfield 3.
How dare Matic not be a one man midfield. Pogba apparently needs a freak of a player next to him just to perform to a basic level, or two top class players next to him doing his work for him.
Looks like the problem is Pogba himself, not his setup. Since we were doing fine with him and Matic until he decided to have a temper tantrum and stop doing anything on the pitch.
But if he provides freedom for him in the sense that Pogba doesn't work defensively we're left with basically one man midfield.
If Pogba can work well just in one position and needs 2 players to shine than we have a problem. I've seen some comparisons with Modrić, one poster said he needs players around him to do a defensive work which is wrong. Modrić has played all over the midfield in his career and has been good in all positions. Of course his best position is a deep laying playmaker but recently in Croatian NT he proved he can play equally good behind a striker (that happened before too in his career) and in Dinamo he started playing as a left sided midfielder. His defending is underrated, he can even do a job as a defensive midfielder although you wouldn't want to waste him there.
Pogba is talented enough to have more in his locker than just play as a left sided midfielder which is repeated here non stop. If not he'll never be a complete midfielder like Luka. Maybe that wasn't the plan anyway.
Pogba is talented enough to have more in his locker than just play as a left sided midfielder which is repeated here non stop. If not he'll never be a complete midfielder like Luka. Maybe that wasn't the plan anyway.
Being better in 3 men midfield is on Mourinho, sulking on the pitch is on the player though.
Pogba looked disinterested yesterday. He didn't defend nor attack, just standing on the pitch watching the play like watching a nice movie. Most unprofessional performance I have seen a top class player does. He was very poor against Spurs but not as unprofessional as he was yesterday.
We should for sure help him improve by playing 4-3-3 but he must help himself as well.
All honestly, if a player had put similar performance as Pogba yesterday while SAF was in charge, I think SAF would have dropped him for the next 3-4 games or something.
Pogba looked disinterested yesterday. He didn't defend nor attack, just standing on the pitch watching the play like watching a nice movie. Most unprofessional performance I have seen a top class player does. He was very poor against Spurs but not as unprofessional as he was yesterday.
We should for sure help him improve by playing 4-3-3 but he must help himself as well.
All honestly, if a player had put similar performance as Pogba yesterday while SAF was in charge, I think SAF would have dropped him for the next 3-4 games or something.
True, in some games its not even Pogba being bad defensively just his position was weird as hell, i mean, he doesnt need to be in same line as Matic but sometimes he isnt even further up a bit, more like miles away, when in midfield 2 that is. Similar when we play this fake 4-3-3 with Pogba and Lingard who seems enforced there.
At the start of season Matic without pre season looked able to actually do his job and provide freedom for Pogba but the more Matic got fecked by each game passing, the bigger holes appeared in our midfield, oppo players getting huge spaces between the lines more and more.
Matic is toasted, he never was good enough for a 2 midfield task anyway, what pisses me the most is that same thing happened in Chelsea under same manager and yet JM done same thing again, only thing missing is JM subbing him in first half or do sub the sub thing.
Is that something you dreamt up after reading Twitter or Hello magazine?
What do you have to say about 'selfish' Pogba giving up the penalty in the very next game so Sanchez could get his first goal for the club in front of the Stretford End?
Pogba is getting slated for basically being a £90 Million pound player and because he's so talented we expect him to be amazing every game. Players and teams have their ups and downs. They're sportsmen not machines.
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Pogba isn't a selfish player; but due to the lack of quality in the team he has become a talisman in the team. That means he was accustomed to playing in a specific way (the team would function around him). Sanchez gets a lot of the ball and makes things happen which has changed the team dynamic and Pogba must adjust.Is that something you dreamt up after reading Twitter or Hello magazine?
What do you have to say about 'selfish' Pogba giving up the penalty in the very next game so Sanchez could get his first goal for the club in front of the Stretford End?
What I am saying is based on the post match comments as well as the events in the game. Pogba was assigned to handle Eriksen and was replaced because he was not doing it; Fellaini came on to do the same thing and was replaced by Hererra who did the same thing. Mourinho also said the plan was to utilize Lukaku and Sanchez as a front two, but Sanchez was dropping too deep because the midfield wasn't doing it's job.
This type of stuff is usually worked out in preseason, but Sanchez came in January so they must find a dynamic that works best for them.
Seems to me we need 2 mids in the summer definitely. Backup for Matić (if maybe TFM won't come back and play as a mid) and one more b2b CM who will free Pogba so to say and add to depth in midfield positions.
Agree, either we get backup or and this might sound crazy replacement for Matic, if there is someone who is getting in peak years with clear qualities, we shouldnt wait for Matic to be done and then look for replacement.
Think we made a mistake with Carrick for example, he was doing his thing and while that was case, we didnt see a need to look for a player who will take over when he retires. If i am not wrong in LvG`s 2nd season we had that run where we played 4-3-3 with Afro on left and Ander on the right in front of Carrick, things looked good till Carrick got injured and because we didnt have a backup, things went to shit a bit after.
The over reaction to his dip in form is boardering on the ludicrous.
Mourinho needs to shoulder a lot of the blame as well. He spent £90 million on an attacking midfielder and is playing him as a defensive midfielder. It’s utter madness.
Mourinho needs to shoulder a lot of the blame as well. He spent £90 million on an attacking midfielder and is playing him as a defensive midfielder. It’s utter madness.
Mourinho has taken a lot of blame for that already, but this is player performance thread. If he was put in defensive midfielder but showed guts, fought for each ball and tried to do the best he can, all the blame would have gone to Mourinho, however, sulking on the pitch and watching the game as if he's in stands just because you're not playing in your best position is an unacceptable attitude if we seek any success.
Playing in an unfavorable position ? Do your best and any limitation in your play will be blamed on the manager. Jogging and doing feck all just because of that ? Then you need take your share of the blame.
Interestingly on the topic of Modric, he looked absolutely terrible under Jose and was considered the biggest flop in La Liga history(Real's too iirc).
Ancelotti came in and he became the best midfielder in the world the following season.
I don’t care what Mourinho said post match, it was plain to see that he was injured in that first half. He played the whole game like someone that didn’t want to aggravate an injury further.
More likely you want to believe he's injured to give him an excuse for such an unprofessional performance.
When he was injured against Basel he asked for immediate subbing.
Thats how I saw it. I was ready to start pissing and moaning until the commentary team mentioned he had picked up injury and was talking to the dugout.
I don't understand the criticism of Mourinho's use of Pogba specifically in the Newcastle game. The other games are a different story.
But vs Newcastle, I saw Lingard effectively covering for Pogba defensively almost throughout the entire game and Pogba had plenty of freedom to venture forward. He was further forward than Lingard on numerous occasions.
Now if he was injured, then I'll absolve him of criticism. But that's another issue altogether.
But vs Newcastle, I saw Lingard effectively covering for Pogba defensively almost throughout the entire game and Pogba had plenty of freedom to venture forward. He was further forward than Lingard on numerous occasions.
Now if he was injured, then I'll absolve him of criticism. But that's another issue altogether.
There are injuries you can play through and those that you can't.
The team desperately needs a midfielder who ghosts into the area. Pogba could be that man. The present system seems to be nullified by defenders.
So the pre match injury in the warm up and him clutching his leg was imagined then was it?
Maybe I’d rather give the guy (that’s been nothing but professional since returning) the benefit of the doubt before unjustly crucifying him.
Each time he was injured here he asked for a sub. Last season he was injured against Rostov and asked to be subbed, and this season same against Basel.
If he was injured he wouldn't have played, and if he was injured he wouldn't have definitely played that long.
More ever, if he was injured but told the coaching staff that he's fine and can play, then goes jogging on the pitch because of that, that's even a thing he should be blamed for rather than being used as an excuse.
This is exactly what we should be getting as well. The sooner Mourinho learns to adapt his tactics and squad selection to get the best out of our players the better.
But he just doesn't need to be in a 3 man midfield, it has to be with a world class dm and a world class conductor. Only then is it possible to see the true Pogba.
I see it as a disservice to his talent level if he goes through his career as this constant positional problem. The same thing happens at International level so it is not only a Utd problem. He could be a generational player, but until his attitude meshes with his ability we will never consistently see the best of him no matter where he plays.
There are varying degrees of injuries my friend. Yesterday it was obvious that he wasn’t right. He looked and played injured. Not seriously injured, but injured nonetheless.
I’m not going to argue any further. You have your opinion and I have mine
Let's agree to disagree.There are varying degrees of injuries my friend. Yesterday it was obvious that he wasn’t right. He looked and played injured. Not seriously injured, but injured nonetheless.
I’m not going to argue any further. You have your opinion and I have mine
I was aware of those quotes, but I think they predated SAF's final verdict:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-showing-disrespect-which-led-to-9315028.html
Maybe that was just sour grapes (over negotiations) and an attempt to save face, but he also has questioned Pogba's mentality and character in the past. Again, maybe that's just SAF realizing the new generation of players don't match up to his old guard, but it casts a very negative light on Pogba.
BTW, I think Pogba is immensely talented, has the attitude and balls to fight for his teammates (when he feels like it), and is very clearly playing out of position. But that's not the point. Twice now he's sulked and refused to put in effort because he's not on his favorite left side. That's inexcusable, and he belongs on the bench until he sorts it out.
For as much shtick as Lukaku has copped for poor performances, he's never looked like he's half-assing it on purpose. Pogba has done it twice now.
That post is pretty misleading and the comparison is not the best. As @hellohello said Modric played in midfield 2 for Spurs on a brilliant level for 2 years before he went to Madrid. Only at the beginning of his career with Spurs, he played sometimes on the left wing to get accustomed to the higher intensity of the league. But, he was always hard working and very positionally aware player, so Pogba comparisons are not so close. Not to mention his ability to dictate the game, or be involved all the time.
Jose bought Modric and he wasn't terrible under him. He wasn't good only in the first part of the season. That biggest flop label he got by the voters in Marca was made after first 3 months were he played around eight full matches. In the second half of his first season, he actually started playing very good and by the end of the season, he already became one of Madrid's best players. The turning point was (unfortunately) his goal against us at Old Trafford and Jose moving him to a deeper role.
I do agree that Pogba still has time to develop. 24 is a pretty young age for a midfielder, especially one that is such a physical beast and has so much talent. Would only like to see more discipline and hunger in his game. For example, someone like Yaya Toure would be a better comparison when we talk about Pogba imo.
Lukaku has played in his best position week in week out - how is that situation comparable to Pogba's?
So the midfield of Pogba, Matic and Lingard was a 433 where Lingard was basically a CM of sorts? I've read it all now.
Please stop making up stuff. Did you see how Pogba congratulated Sanchez when he scored vs Huddersfield?. Yes he hasn’t played well lately but it shouldn’t be an excuse for our fans to start making him a villain here.
Think it’s on Jose tbh.
Why sign one of the best attacking midfielders in the world and play him as a holding midfielder.
It doesn’t suit his strengths and it just highlights his weaknesses.
Fed up of square pegs in round holes.
Why sign one of the best attacking midfielders in the world and play him as a holding midfielder.
It doesn’t suit his strengths and it just highlights his weaknesses.
Fed up of square pegs in round holes.
That's how it looked during this game.
I'm not saying it's an ideal set-up, but to say that Pogba was shackled in this particular game is far off the mark imo.
Very rarely do I agree with Michael Owen or Owen Hargreaves but I do here.
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