What? It's not "for the cameras" in any sense. We were on the break and he was providing an outlet on the left. He's playing football, not acting for the cameras. What an odd thing to say.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Yeah, not a great phrase. What I mean is that, he knows he's going to get praise, and get focus for that. Channelling back, closing gaps, blocking outlets when people are on the attack is far less flashy, doesn't get the attention / praise / doesn't get shown in highlights. For example, players like Makelele are sometimes undervalued. That's kinda what I meant, he isn't overly keen to do the dirty work.
I get what others have said since I made my comment alright, that it's not really his game. I agree, he excels in the other things. But, if he's a team player, he should be getting back and blocking things off. And he should be busting his gut to do so. I'm not saying he should be like Keane, and lampooning into tackles, but he should be chasing back when we're under pressure. It's all well and good to say it's not his game, well, it's not exactly Rooney's game either as a centre forward, and he used do it.
I actually wrote that I believe his rating is upped by at least 0.5 because of his high number of dribbles yesterday, but deleted it before posting. It's definitely one of his best attributes, but that first video is about the only dribble yesterday that was actually effective. All other were pretty much pointless in which he could have passed it far earlier and actually speed up the attack. That's at least from what I can remember, I know he had at least one or two dribbles that were pointless and risky, where simple pass could do lot more. Even in that situation simple pass could probably do the same, for example last season Herrera would make that quick pass there and play Sanchez far earlier.
Come on Brwned, if that's called selfless running than how do you call Sanchez runs(both attacking and defensive) during the entire game?
Regarding the other part, he is given free licence to do whatever he wants attacking wise, takes shit load of pointles shots and even some passes and dribbles at times, does less defensively than our any other player on the pitch, and yet him trying more adventourus things than our other players should be regarded as something out of this world?
I don't think you should praise him for trying adventurous things but I would have thought people would appreciate how often he succeeds with them. Which is why he has more assists than Silva from a deeper position, completes more dribbles than any other midfielder (and more than Salah, Sané, Aguero etc.) while still playing the patient possession role, making more passes and completing more passes than someone like Eriksen. The way he's being described in here is absurd.
I find the Sánchez comparison funny personally. He's just like Rooney. Your fave. Yes Sánchez runs around in a very obvious way. I do not remotely find the effort he puts in any more impressive than Pogba. I don't understand at all why people overlook how gruelling it is getting up and down the pitch while still finding lots of time for the powerful bursts he has. He does a bit of what Matic does and a bit of what Sánchez does, in a way no-one else in the team does.
In 248 minutes in the Champions League Pogba has covered 29.6km, or an average of 10.7km per 90 mins. In 75 minutes Sánchez covered 7.5km, or an average of 9km per 90 mins. Matic has covered an average of 11.5km per 90 mins. Now obviously a midfielder should cover more ground than a forward, and that shouldn't be a surprise, but it doesn't match up too well with this idea that Pogba does feck all. Sánchez will certainly be doing more high intensity running but I totally disagree with this idea that Pogba doesn't do much of that. He makes lots of those gruelling runs the entire length of the pitch, at pace - more than anyone else in the team. Plus he makes lots of short burst past players in the middle that someone like Matic never does.
If it wasn't for his style Pogba would be recognised as a really hard worker. You can't cover 11km a game while out-dribbling and out-passing every player in the pitch in almost every game without putting effort in. Lots of those passes are short, simple passes, but you have to be constantly active and search for those angles to be available for that kind of ball circulation. And it's really quite obvious how many times he bursts past players...almost no-one else does. So above all else I find that argument strikingly bizarre. His energy is more focused on attack than defence, and that frustrates people - that's all I can think.
He lacks discipline and focus and is really too immature. But the idea that he doesn't work? I would really love to see any kind of statistics to support that.
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he will be valued when he performs.
Don't you find it odd that he is currently rated as our best player on two independent statistics websites, WhoScored and Sqawka, which use different inputs and different methodologies? Do people think there is some kind of conspiracy to make Pogba seem better than he is? He already has more assists this season than any of our players have had in the last 5 years, despite playing just over half of our games so far. Why is that something so easily dismissed?
It's all easy forgot when he saunters around the pitch seemingly not giving two shits. I agree that Pogba this season up until a month or so ago has been brilliant and a joy to watch at times. He certainly has gone off the boil lately though, would you not agree to that?
Is it really worth posting rubbish from the Daily Mail?
Think it's because of the past month basically. Since that Everton game, he struggled in a few games and then something seemed to have changed and we got to where we are now. Before that everton game, everyone was saying he was having a very good season. It's weird because he had one of his best performances against Everton, but since then it's like it's all gone to shit for him and the recent games always dictate how players are perceived. That's why when people discuss teams of the season and whatever else, if a player was shit in the first half but amazing in the second they always get plaudits and almost write off the poor first half, while if it's the inverse then they often get labelled as having poor seasons (even though technically it's the same split).
Yeah without doubt he's been much less influential, and the fact it's came just after the team started to decline more generally makes it particularly impactful...I guess I just don't read into the body language the same way others are. I just think he's been a bit off form and struggling for confidence.
Just after? Coincided with, surely? Which is no coincidence. It’s been established for ages now that we’re a much better team when he’s involved and playing well. When he’s not involved - or not playing well - we deteriorate massively.
I'm not so sure. I totally agree with you that centre mids are essential to how the team functions, but we've been a bit crap for more than a month now. I think Pogba was doing well up until the Burnley game, then things went downhill. He was MOTM against Stoke just before that. We've been pretty bad since the beginning of December, right? I've lost track. His red card against Arsenal might've started it off but since he came back I think he's been playing well while the team have still been a bit dysfunctional. Which to me is more worrying than anything else. Pogba isn't yet that player that really holds the team together. Like you said it was Matic doing that and Pogba didn't really step into that role when Matic became a bit sheepish.
He's definitely exacerbated the problems since, but I don't think he's been the cause. He just hasn't been the solution even when he's played well.
I'd be devastated if we lost Pogba. Yes he does have to improve, sometimes he does play an immature game out their on the pitch, but he is such an exciting player to watch and is very creative. Pogba has had a good season so far, 13 assists is a great return but unfortunately his season has been interrupted by injury and suspension. I don't think it's a good idea to shoehorn him into that deep midfield position, his natural game is to pick up the ball and try and beat his marker using his strength, athleticism and skill, along with using his vision and tremendous passing range to create chances, it's to much of a risk to do this so close to our goal so he has to play further up the pitch.
Pogba is only a small part of United's problems right now. We play as an assortment of individuals as opposed to a team. With that in mind, attacking players are always going to make bad choices on the pitch, which is what is happening now.
Pogba is only a small part of United's problems right now. We play as an assortment of individuals as opposed to a team. With that in mind, attacking players are always going to make bad choices on the pitch, which is what is happening now.
Crunch time for the self absorbed superstar who's been far too interested in social media and what others think of him. Two years since he's signed for United now and his performance level shows no signs of improvement. He really does needs to grow up quickly and adapt his game to rescue his United career instead of having tantrums and throwing his toys out when things aren't going his way.
The problem is his unwillingness to take responsibility and accept his spell of bad form. And also, his flirting with Europe's top clubs is childish and off putting, makes it look like he's not bothered so much about United. He's got to learn that no matter his ability or star quality nobody is bigger than the club.
Most of all he needs to start getting the best out of our flair players as up to now his man management efforts, especially regarding Pogba, have been nothing short of bizarre.
The problem is his unwillingness to take responsibility and accept his spell of bad form. And also, his flirting with Europe's top clubs is childish and off putting, makes it look like he's not bothered so much about United. He's got to learn that no matter his ability or star quality nobody is bigger than the club.
Most of all he needs to start getting the best out of our flair players as up to now his man management efforts, especially regarding Pogba, have been nothing short of bizarre.
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'Feel valued'
I suspect his and Jose's agents are the ones telling the press they are both wanted by Madrid.
i dont understand why does it cause so much uproar when a manager ask his centre midfielder to put bit shift in defense? Especially when the player plays as one of double pivot in 2 CMs system.
“Feel valued” by being paid as much as Sanchez? This fecking post-Fergie galactico crap could be biting us on the arse.
Just play our footballers in a formation and in positions that will get the best out of them. Getting the best out of them, that's how to value them. The manager needs to adapt and stop emphasising defensive stodge over attack. Mou needs to buck up his ideas or he risks losing another dressing room. It ain't rocket science.
He'll be out on his backside if he doesn't sort this out diplomatically.
Wtf has he got against creative artists anyway? The man could be bought Michelngelo and he'd have him painting double yellow lines on the road.
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Sooner or later, that was always coming. Mourinho is one of the few manager that could put a stop to it, let's see how it pens out.
I hope we don't loose Pogba, I would rather loose Jose first.
He's the one buying the galacticos. Even Sanchez is a galactico acquisition without the fee
The galactico thing started before he took over.
I agree. His languid defending sometimes costs us. I remember that goal Kante scored against us in the cup -- I think it was last season. He should have been getting at Kante there and he was well short by a few seconds. Kante scored and we lost that tie.
It did. Di Maria, Falcao, Depay. Most of them were shipped out then Jose brought his own. It's not a bad idea but it's just not working out so far as we seem to buy them without a proper vision of how they'd fit
Like @Pogue just said, Ed was chasing galacticos ever since SAF retired.
It's an odd thread this, so much discussion on why Pogba has to play in a very particular role and thats why he's underperforming but then when you question his season he's simultaneously defended as having had a great season until recently.
As people have said above it just reinforces that actually he's just off form at the moment rather than it being structural. If he can be as great as he was the first half of the season then there's no issue
As people have said above it just reinforces that actually he's just off form at the moment rather than it being structural. If he can be as great as he was the first half of the season then there's no issue
All this revisionary nonsense about feeling uncomfortable about Galacticos is just a diversionary tactic to cover up Mourinho's failings. Any of the top 6 managers or indeed any other manager with a modern outlook and who values fluent attacking play would have us flying what with the offensive talent we've got.
What a shame to see the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, Martial, Matta all so inhibited by the manager that they are unable to string two passes together.
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Yup. I’ve felt uncomfortable with it from day one. Seems to go against everything we’ve always been about. Pogba felt less galactico because he’d been here before but still.
Tbh media also lost it and started to brand everyone as galactico signing if it was for big fee.
Signings under Jose have been much better though, nice mix of young and experienced players.
Aye its weird, he was playing brilliantly and then had a couple of bad performances and the meltdown begins. You have the same with Phil Jones, he was considered one of the best defenders in the league this season until that OG against Spurs, now most people want him sold.
It reflects the modern fan mentality, completely reactionary. Or perhaps the old adage that you're only as good as your last game suggests that it is nothing new
I really think the Spurs game was a massive turning point in Pogba's United career. Despite his public comments, I think that Jose still believed the title was possible before that game. United were on a fantastic run, hadn't conceded a goal in 2018, had just poached Sanchez from under City's noses and had momentum on their side.
After heavy criticism of his style in big games, Jose went for it, played an attacking side where a win would have been a massive statement that United were chasing City down. The start was terrible, the defending poor but Pogba's effort in that game (or lack thereof) was inexcusable.
This is not some inexperienced kid who was in and out of the side. This was the face of the club, the future captain, the player Jose refused to take off even during his poor games. He never criticised him in public, in fact he defended him to the hilt against club legends which can only damage Jose's reputation with United fans.
It was the biggest game of the season and one of the main reasons the system didn't work was because Pogba appeared to be having a sulk. It was a senior player, one of the leadership group taking on the manager. It's a Rooney vs Fergie moment. An act of selfishness from a player that lost him the trust of his manager. In Rooney's case it meant he would never be United captain under Fergie. I can only hope Pogba reacts well to it and earns the trust of the manager back. But I'm far from convinced that will happen.
After heavy criticism of his style in big games, Jose went for it, played an attacking side where a win would have been a massive statement that United were chasing City down. The start was terrible, the defending poor but Pogba's effort in that game (or lack thereof) was inexcusable.
This is not some inexperienced kid who was in and out of the side. This was the face of the club, the future captain, the player Jose refused to take off even during his poor games. He never criticised him in public, in fact he defended him to the hilt against club legends which can only damage Jose's reputation with United fans.
It was the biggest game of the season and one of the main reasons the system didn't work was because Pogba appeared to be having a sulk. It was a senior player, one of the leadership group taking on the manager. It's a Rooney vs Fergie moment. An act of selfishness from a player that lost him the trust of his manager. In Rooney's case it meant he would never be United captain under Fergie. I can only hope Pogba reacts well to it and earns the trust of the manager back. But I'm far from convinced that will happen.
If anyone reads the last few pages of this thread and some other Pogba thread then they would think we are talking about some donkey when he is one our best outfield player this season.
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Many have been brainwashed by the press. They've all said "he's no good in a midfield 2, look how lazy he is" now everybody has stuck by that narrative.
Fact is he's just not been his best the last few games, but even against Sevilla he was clearly the best midfielder we have in terms of moving the ball up field and linking to attack.
I think we just need to give him a break, everybody expects so much from him he's become the new scapegoat.
Well, there is no doubt that the Mourinho/Pogba relationship is a tad strained at the moment. More stuff in the media today. Someone's been talking, regardless of which tabloid it's in. It's not a great situation. Perhaps Fergie was right, he always usually had pretty good instincts, always knew that talent alone wasn't enough within the teams he was building. Attitude was of huge importance to him. At the moment I think one would be allowed to question the attitude.
If there is a Galactico type approach to our signings, at least it is incoming rather than outgoing, quality of our game not withstanding.
We have managed to hold on to Dave and Martial....so far.
We have managed to hold on to Dave and Martial....so far.
Great talent that people forget irrespective of the money we paid, you can't fast track maturity. Young lad playing at a massive club, he'll have moments when he loses his way or struggles with the lack of form. Manager is brave enough to sit his star player on the bench to give a clear message to him and others, and the press seem to want to turn this into a negative. SAF did it to great success and I believe Pogs will be a better player for it too.....honestly to be actually think that even under SAF stewardship that big players questioned his management or he didn't have to give big players a bollocking, people post stuff likes it's only about modern players with attitudes when it's always existed in football.
Martial a galactio?! You think?
I agree with the gist but don’t think Pogba sulked against Spurs. It was more a case of his flaws being exposed by Spurs midfielders that appreciate talent is nothing without graft. But you’re spot on about that match being a huge turning point. We set up to take the game to them, looked great for 15 minutes then completely lost our way. Pogba played his part by looking a million miles short of the potential captain he’s supposed to be but I don’t think he stopped trying in that game. He just didn’t step up when we needed him most.
IMO the sulking took place during the Newcastle game. A response to being dropped (and, presumably in his mind, scapegoated) after the Spurs debacle. Then we had the “sickie”. So yeah, there’s obviously a battle of wills going on here but Pogba certain isn’t being harshly treated. It’s almost all on him.
Nobody is trying to cover anything nor find excuses for 'failings' as you say. It was a general observation of how we operate in the years post Fergie, like some other big clubs did even before that.
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