Tbh, such is my confidence in his ability, I think if he were to be content in whatever position - he’ll smash it. I’ve been bitchy with him cos I place Man Utd and our needs above what let’s him sleep tight at night. And the fact he wasn’t willing/capable of doing it shows (to me at least) a lot about his character. But fair do’s, give him the position he wants. And he’ll probably hit the numbers we want, yeah.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
- Status
That wording is flat out populism by Carragher. Like several other aspects of his piece.
Anyway, I'm a bit clueless as well about where the recent drop in performances comes from (if it isn't a fitness issue).
Not so simple. #10 have the least amount of spaces to play and opposing players will surround and tussle you to death from behind and besides. Have to make quick decisions in movement and quick-passes. #10 also requires you to be able to beat your marker and should have that 'surrounding sense' of whoever is marking you and their distance. Players like Scholes, D. Silva, Pirlo, Iniesta and Messi excelled at this. They have that sense and skills to beat markers.
Pogba excel better having spaces and more time to operate so he can execute that trademark hollywood pass of him which is impressively often always accurate and precise. And he is far better at running with the ball facing opponents, than being surrounded with players. He doesn't like physical battle that much - have you seen him asking ref for a foul too much. He also have problems when being marked, doesn't beat his marker with turning or 'awareness positioning.. So, #6 is better and #8 is his best role.
Yeah perhaps he will. He's definitely a quality player, and I'm not even neccesarily sure if he's been kicking up a fuss or if it's the media trying to get clicks out of us as usual. In a sense I suppose his position at Juve wasn't a million miles away from being an attacking mid, and Jose does usually say he prefers his 10 to be an Eight1/2 if I'm not mistaken. At this point I just want a big performance from him soon to shut everyone up about him, we can still have a goodish season if everyone gets their heads straight and it clicks.
Okay, with all this ongoing debates, we need Pogba to get back in form as #8 and/or #6 which I'm sure he will 
and prove his doubters wrong again!
(Remember last season) Sooner the better, to ease our worries.
and prove his doubters wrong again! (Remember last season) Sooner the better, to ease our worries.
I agree with the descriptions of the roles you’ve given. Problem is, pogba seems incompatible with the conventional #10 role, yet wants the defensive freedom while not being able to tick off the to-do list.
He also doesn’t want to do any midfield work, as a midfielder. Bit of an issue no?
And everything he’s good at, he doesn’t seem to be willing to consistently.
He was massive to us earlier on, now a bit of s disruption more than anything. I’m just hoping the Pogba we all know is there comes out. Cos ones he does, we’ll have the best midfield in the league - just on his accord.
He was, until his injury and even when he came back he's been fantastic this season playing in a 2 man midfield. I think against the fodder teams he can still play there, as a team we need to up the pace a bit and actually attempt to be on the front foot.
I do think we'll get the most out Pogba letting him run towards goal from deep, essentially as an extra man in attack so he isn't marked as easily.
True, and I'm fine with the rest of your pts.
Either Jose have to play hardball drilling it into Pogba to defend or we surrender letting him free-no-defend role.
But those are under the assumption that Pogba is unwilling to do the defensive works, which I believe is false. He did expressed his discontent about it before, which is normal for an attacking player who loves to attack, and yet he did defend anyway professionally in many games.
I believe that Spurs game affects Pogba that much (it's a big game) and it's a shock Mourinho subbed him out, which have never happened before unless injury reason. I don't blame either one in this case, Pogba tried and failed (not much protection from ref for his liking) then asked Jose for a change in formation but somewhat in a disrespect way and improper timings, while Mourinho had to subbed him out so we won't concede more making it worse as Spurs are having fun shooting training with De Gea, bullying our defenders. He was illed few days/week after right?, and doesn't seem right during the Newcastle game.
Mourinho have since said he is fine with Pogba and praised his professional performance against Sevilla, which I have to inclined in agreeing (good defending first half, more advanced second half when we're in more control linked up well with Martial and Rashford, Sanchez-Lukaku-Mata are off that game). Strange not many posters are in agreement. Of course obviously not his normal standard, but from how I see it, it's solid enough and a lot better than the two games, nothing to complaint about. Improvement.
If the recent report is true (or not, doubt it actually) whence he asked Mourinho for a change in formation permanently and maybe given free-no-defensive roles, it's fine for him to confront this, but insisting upon it is not, manager still is the one that decides. Football is football. Manager decides, players perform. If he wants it, then like Carragher said, he have to earned it eg. the case of Cristiano Ronaldo under SAF, before his final two seasons where he barely do defensive works as instructed, as winger/side midfielder Ronnie did help defend a lot professionally despite his obvious limitations and dislike for it, still did enough and earned it at the end, where literally his attacks are too good to be giving him defensive responsibility. No one expects Pogba to be amazing in defend, it's the effort that counts and helpful to the team. Recent Mourinho's press conference/interviews seem to reflect this point.
What are we agreed on here then?
1 - that he could be doing better
2 - there's plenty of ability, he should be able to do his ''defensive shift''
3 - we largely agree that perhaps he needs a different set-up (esp in the crunchy kinda games)
4 - we hope this is a blip in form, not many have totally given up on him (stick me down for nearest possibly, disloyal bedwetter that I am)
5 - Mourinho ain't totally happy with something or other concerning PP
Not agreed on
6 - the extent of any alleged rift with Mourinho
for me, it seems fairly obvious that 6 holds the key to the other 5, as to how this plays out
not even the illness / injury theory gets us away from that
1 - that he could be doing better
2 - there's plenty of ability, he should be able to do his ''defensive shift''
3 - we largely agree that perhaps he needs a different set-up (esp in the crunchy kinda games)
4 - we hope this is a blip in form, not many have totally given up on him (stick me down for nearest possibly, disloyal bedwetter that I am)
5 - Mourinho ain't totally happy with something or other concerning PP
Not agreed on
6 - the extent of any alleged rift with Mourinho
for me, it seems fairly obvious that 6 holds the key to the other 5, as to how this plays out
not even the illness / injury theory gets us away from that
There's a huge media campaign against him. Lot's of ex Liverpool pundits having a field day at his failures.
I think it's all Jose's fault. You don't throw a Lampard or a Rooney into a midfield 2 at the business end of a season and expect them to be an instant Roy Keane.
Media keep taking the piss out of his defensive side but that comes with confidence. If you're on fire and playing in your favourite position then you will have the confidence to bust a gut to defend. If you're in a midfield 2 and having rings run around you away to Spurs then all you're going to be thinking is that you're playing under the wrong manager and your concentration will suffer.
Pogba will 100% become the next De Bruyne/Mo Salah if we sell him. It will become another case of Jose's ego clouding his judgement over a rare attacking talent. He should take a leaf out of Fergies book so that certain concessions are made for certain talents as was the case with Berbatov, Cantona, Van Persie etc in that you didn't always see them defending at all times when we didn't have the ball.
I think it's all Jose's fault. You don't throw a Lampard or a Rooney into a midfield 2 at the business end of a season and expect them to be an instant Roy Keane.
Media keep taking the piss out of his defensive side but that comes with confidence. If you're on fire and playing in your favourite position then you will have the confidence to bust a gut to defend. If you're in a midfield 2 and having rings run around you away to Spurs then all you're going to be thinking is that you're playing under the wrong manager and your concentration will suffer.
Pogba will 100% become the next De Bruyne/Mo Salah if we sell him. It will become another case of Jose's ego clouding his judgement over a rare attacking talent. He should take a leaf out of Fergies book so that certain concessions are made for certain talents as was the case with Berbatov, Cantona, Van Persie etc in that you didn't always see them defending at all times when we didn't have the ball.
Last edited:
Hopefully the board will overule Mourinho on selling Pogba. Assuming of course that reports are correct and that’s what Mourinho wants.
100% this.
Nonsense. Pogba has been playing as a 2 men midfield since start of season. He'll he has been playing there since last season! How can we "throw him there" at the business end of season ?
I love Pogba, but the excuses he's getting are starting to become pretty lame.
The pile-up of excuses for this lad are extraordinary. He just hasn't been playing well.
Most likely what will happen is that, in one of these upcoming 'home' games against tough opposition, he will be picked, perform and then everybody will say the 'true' Pogba' is back and everything is all right in the world.
It won't be - until he, himself, steps up his game, releases the ball quicker, doesn't dawdle, keeps his head, shows 100 per cent commitment and doesn't take crazy shots from 40 yards.
Then, maybe, we have a player. At the moment, we just have a talented, fragile soul whose ego has been pricked and whose benchwarming will only serve to tick that overactive mind a bit further.
He needs to be on display. Without it, he's diminished to nothing - but the next time he'd picked to start, the alarming lack of intensity he's shown recently needs to banished.
That's the least we ask for.
Most likely what will happen is that, in one of these upcoming 'home' games against tough opposition, he will be picked, perform and then everybody will say the 'true' Pogba' is back and everything is all right in the world.
It won't be - until he, himself, steps up his game, releases the ball quicker, doesn't dawdle, keeps his head, shows 100 per cent commitment and doesn't take crazy shots from 40 yards.
Then, maybe, we have a player. At the moment, we just have a talented, fragile soul whose ego has been pricked and whose benchwarming will only serve to tick that overactive mind a bit further.
He needs to be on display. Without it, he's diminished to nothing - but the next time he'd picked to start, the alarming lack of intensity he's shown recently needs to banished.
That's the least we ask for.
Well that's complete and utter nonsense and you should get your facts straight before making a claim like that. Pogba thrived at the start of the season as he had both Fellaini and Matic behind him. With Fellani injured Jose has repeatedly tried to play Pogba in the Fellaini role to disastrous results.
At the start of the season Fellaini was only playing the last 15 minutes of the game or so. He became a starter only after Pogba got injured. We were starting every game with Matic and Pogba with Mikhi as number 10. When Pogba returned from injury in November he played in the exact same formation, with Matic alone in midfield. The only games Pogba played with a proper 2 other midfielders this season (not mentioning Lingard) are Madrid, Stoke, Everton and Seville.
Maybe you should stop spotting nonsense and start watching our games a little bit.
At the start of the season Fellaini was only playing the last 15 minutes of the game or so. He became a starter only after Pogba got injured. We were starting every game with Matic and Pogba with Mikhi as number 10. When Pogba returned from injury in November he played in the exact same formation, with Matic alone in midfield. The only games Pogba played with a proper 2 other midfielders this season (not mentioning Lingard) are Madrid, Stoke, Everton and Seville.
Maybe you should stop spotting nonsense and start watching our games a little bit.
He doesn't work in a 2. Get over it. Let it go. Everyone thought Rooney would be the new Scholes. It never worked as Rooney had no idea how to play the role but Van Gaal's stubbornness to prove a point that couldn't be proved cost him his job. Jose is doing the same with Pogba and his ego is clouding his judgment, 'This is my show, I am the boss, If I say play in a 2 you play there.' It's not working but Jose's ego is too big to take the blame for it not working.If he doesn’t start tomorrow then it’s going to start looking increasingly more likely that the rumours of a rift with Mourinho are true.
Never did I say he should or shouldn't play in 2. I said don't throw that we threw him out of sudden in this formation while he played the majority of his games for us in it. He can't perform in it, fine but that's not what I was replaying to.
Unless we play Carrick instead of him, Pogba will be a starter because we have no other midfielders.
He might go McTominay, Matic and Lingard
You are actually correct. Jose could do that, especially in a 3-5-2, with Sanchez and Lukaku up top.He might go McTominay, Matic and Lingard
So do we want him to start tomorrow if picked ?
The Sun are saying now he will leave in the summer if Jose is still there. Mirrors the falling out Jose had with Eden Hazard. Jose will take a Willian any day over a Hazard and I'm not sure swapping Pogba for a more defensive minded No.10 will bring Jose the success he is trying to achieve.
So much wrong point in this post
-Pogba first game with us in EPL against Sunderland last season , he was in midfield 2 partnering with fellaini & won motm
-Pogba first game this season against west ham was in midfield 2 with matic
-Pogba with france ,went through to euro final was in midfield 2 with Kante
So it's not like he can't play in 2 , we have won lot of games with him in mf 2
Jose has an eye for talent , he was the first one to brought in KDB & Salah to EPL , both were still potential young star back then nobody knows how good they can be yet but his chelsea team already good enough to win to league so it's not like he is missing them much
Cantona, van persie & berbatov are All striker why are you comparing them with a CM ? Mourinho also let ronaldo free from doing defensive job in his RM setup
Tell me 1 single CM in this history of football that are free from defensive duty , even "lazy bum" like pirlo or shorty like xavi flying in tackle around & closing spaces
Pogba should & must contribute in defending
Damien duff post about him is absolutely spot on , pogba just have very bad awareness of his surroundings when we werent in possession. He is ball-watching & can't sniff the danger around , this is what he must fix
Last edited:
I agree. Good post.
Mourinho was not in charge of buying players at Chelsea. And Mourinho was not even the manager when they brought De Bruyne.
With or without KDB , mourinho still end up winning the league , so how does it matter whether he sold him or not ?
Kdb didn't really light epl on fire when he first came either , nobody knows he can be this good before this season
He was great his first two seasons with City too.
"Nobody knew before this season" De Bruyne was tearing it up in the Bundesliga and was arguably the best player in the league the season before he went to City for the club record amount at the time of £54m. He was an instant sucess after leaving Chelsea.
Right now, this guy must be worth at least as much as what Coutinho went for.
It doesn't matter , Mou was winning the league without him & I don't think he plan to stay on Chelsea for long so who cares if chelsea lost a young potential star.
Ask every Chelsea fans about kdb when he played with them , he looked bang average , being poty in bundesliga doesn't always mean they would be good in epl , check kagawa & mkhi
But this thread isn't about kdb , it's about pogba
Btw , kdb do a defensive job week in week out , pogba shouldn't be excused from
Hazard was a hate figure in Jose's final months at Chelsea. Jose gets the boot and Hazard is arguably the best player in the league last season under Conte. Who is to blame for that? Jose for using him wrong or Hazard for not following orders? Glen Hoddle has a piece tonight in the Daily Mail saying Pogba is sensational and Jose is clearly using him wrong. It's all down to perspectives. Of course Pogba is not going to kill himself to defend if he feels Jose is not understanding how to use him correctly.
Jose lost the dressing room not because of hazard but because his treatment to eva carneiro , hazard was his main man & player of the year a season before when he won the league with Chelsea so it's not like jose didn't know how to use hazard
You should stop rewriting history just to suit your opinion & pogba is the one who should make himself useful for jose , not other way around
"Pogba shines in mf 3 , when he have freedom" yeah against bollocks like everton, how about against strong team in tight game ? He must improve his defensive contribution
I actually have feelings that fat cnut raiola is the one who gets in his head , notice how his Performance start dipping when he is no longer our highest earner
Last edited:
The whole of our team is running the least kilometres out of all other clubs in the Premier league. So it's not just Pogba and in one way or another is due to Mourinho and the coaching staff.
The only player that has ran his socks off (at least in the league) has been Matic, who up until early January was 4th best in distance covered from all players in the EPL. The rest have either been slacking, not conditioned properly in terms of fitness levels or told to play with such low intensity.
It's clearly been a pattern of Jose's career where players initially buy into the intensity, strict no-nonsense approach and hard work ethic before downing tools by the third season having seemingly become disillusioned with his lack of understanding, endless name blaming and unwillingness to take the blame ever when things take a dip. Hazards relationship with Jose bore all those hallmarks as was seen also with Ronaldo, Diego Costa, Pepe and a good few of the star players in his first stint at Chelsea.
I aint trying to rewrite anything. I just strongly believe that Pogba is one of those rare talents that needs to be nurtured a certain way and I don't feel Jose fully understands how to do that nurturing as he is so set in his ways that he is always right and that a player must perform certain duties to qualify for his trust. I believe Pogba will become a phenomenon under the right manager if he leaves and I believe Jose will still have success here too without Pogba but my feeling is that it will be another De Bruyne/Mo Salah/Ronaldo scenario where many Utd fans will be left wondering what might have been had Jose been just a tad more willing to come to an understanding with Pogba. I mention Ronaldo as his relationship had long soured with Jose before Mourinho was sacked at Madrid and Madrid were never going to take sides with Mourinho in that one.
Unfortunately for you & unlike real madrid, united board is taking side with mourinho that's why they extend his contract
I think the only way united might sack mourinho is if we failed to qualify to UCL ( just like lvg ) so you better pray it to Happen if you dislike him
Other than that the player including pogba must listen to jose if they want to play. who is going to pay him as much as us other than 2 oil club ? He ain't going to get it anywhere , pep won't be interested with him when he didn't even press player hard .
You are delusional if you think pep didn't demand hard from his players , he probably demand his player to run, press & close space much more than jose
RM & Barca isn't going to pay his fee & wage , RM pull out from competition to sign him because they couldn't / didnt want to afford his wage & fee , beside spain was never great for black player
His only way out is PSG and that is if they are interested with him after spending fortune on neymar
With the way he is performing currently , which big club is going to spend over 150m ( inflated market ) & pay +300 p/w for him ?
He has nowhere to go , he must listen to jose , get his head down , work hard , do whatever the coach demand from him , there is no choice , i hope he & our fanbase realize this. Sulking in & getting benched by Scott mctominay isn't going to rise his stock
Last edited:
I see a lot fans and pundits compare Pogba's goal and assist tally to Kevin Debryne's which I think is very unfair to Pogba for a couple of reasons.
1. Debryne first of all plays in a midfield three with much more freedom to get in attacking positions.
2. Debryne is playing for one of the best attacking coaches of all times where as for Pogba it's the opposite. If one has the qualities it's very easy for an attacking player to thrive playing for Pep. Pep's teams are very mobile and attack minded which helps a player like Pogba and Debryne a lot because they would have much more options to pass to and space to run in to as well.
3. Debryne takes set pieces and corners for his team the same can not be said for Pogba. I actually think Pogba would take better corners than any other player at Man United at the moment but I can I understand why the manager would want him in the box rather than on corner duty.
It would actually be interesting to see their average positions on the pitch so far this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Pogba's average position is closer to Fernandinho's rather than Debryne's.
Jose simply has to get more out of Pogba.
1. Debryne first of all plays in a midfield three with much more freedom to get in attacking positions.
2. Debryne is playing for one of the best attacking coaches of all times where as for Pogba it's the opposite. If one has the qualities it's very easy for an attacking player to thrive playing for Pep. Pep's teams are very mobile and attack minded which helps a player like Pogba and Debryne a lot because they would have much more options to pass to and space to run in to as well.
3. Debryne takes set pieces and corners for his team the same can not be said for Pogba. I actually think Pogba would take better corners than any other player at Man United at the moment but I can I understand why the manager would want him in the box rather than on corner duty.
It would actually be interesting to see their average positions on the pitch so far this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Pogba's average position is closer to Fernandinho's rather than Debryne's.
Jose simply has to get more out of Pogba.
He (Paul Pogba) kind of did, more than enough sample of games to prove that.
As for Rooney, where would you put him then? His football abilities especially finishing became so worse so much so he's a "poor" option to be the main striker. Playing him as #10 or SS, behind the striker doesn't work either. How's Rooney at Everton? Same.
Nice one. Okay, I'm really impress.
It's crazy the length people can go to defend him. He's had his best performances for us playing a in 2 man CM.
Agree, but also its amazing the criticism hes getting after what has largely been a very good season for him.
- Status