6
I think we just disagree here. When we are playing well and he is playing well he does chase players back quite aggressively. He's picked up a few yellow cards doing it. When we're not playing well and he makes a mistake he looks like he's about to throw a tantrum.I didn't say we need a world class midfield to succeed. I said Pogba is the one who needs that around him to succeed, because he's a passenger whenever we don't have the ball.
I'm talking about distance covered or staying in one position, I'm talking about being any useful after lossing the ball and not having out. Once we lose the Pogba acts as his job is done and it's someone else to recover it. This is something stats won't show. It depends on what you're saying. He surely runs a lot but is he any useful or does any defensive dirty work whenever we don't have the ball ? You can't get away with it in England, otherwise you will become a weak point.
I don’t want to see him replaced though, ideally I’d have him at his best without all the tricks and dithering on the ball.My question to you is; who the feck do you want to replace him? We would be screaming for him to come off the bench once we are struggling without him. Genuinely, who do you want on the pitch instead? The extremely average Pereira who's basically never had a great game for us? Without Pogba, our output from midfield would be close to zero. You don't know what you got till' it's gone. Let's do a midfield of Fellaini, Fred and Matic, or McTominay, Matic and Fella and see how that goes - I think I already know the answer to that.
Absolutely hated his performance this weekend. In fact, he really irritates me due to the fact that he's quite clearly capable of so much more. But I can't shake the feeling that, under Mourinho, we're not going to see his full capabilities. Imagine he was able to dally on the ball about 10-15 yards further up the pitch - we're always so deep that anytime he receives the ball, its always just a few yards outside of our penalty box. Still doesn't excuse his inconsistent performances.The way he dallies on the ball and lets players get close to him, so he can try and out-muscled them, is a dreadful waste of time. It just slows our play down. Same with his fondness for juggling the ball. His just doesn’t seem to have the instincts of all the best CMs. Knowing when to keep it simple and when you can take another touch. There’s so much he does that hinders him in his supposed specialist position.
I’m really struggling to see him ever becoming one of the best in the word as a CM. He seem unable to play football like a CM. Which is why we get so many thousands of words typed about exactly what sort of team-mates and formation is needed to somehow get the best out of him. If you’re having to bend over backwards to accomodate any one player, then surely that player is the main problem?
The co-commentator on the coverage I was watching kept mentioning how the front players were making runs that got ignored by our CMs who wanted too many touches or were too afraid to pass the ball forwards. Obviously Pogba the latter doesn’t apply to Pogba but the former definitely does.I think he just needs to learn when to use it, and when to keep it moving.
Having that ability on the ball and composure in possession is really handy when in the opponents box, but in our half it's risky.
Honestly i'm sure it could be coached out of him, but our coach right now isn't helping anybody. I do think our lack of movement also makes this worse though. Mcmanaman said in commentary numberous times Pogba would look up to make a pass and they're standing like statues. This makes him hesitate and then has to decide what to do which takes longer.
How are we bending over backwards to accomodate Pogba ? I have no idea why anyone would focus on one player, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, whoever.The way he dallies on the ball and lets players get close to him, so he can try and out-muscled them, is a dreadful waste of time. It just slows our play down. Same with his fondness for juggling the ball. His just doesn’t seem to have the instincts of all the best CMs. Knowing when to keep it simple and when you can take another touch. There’s so much he does that hinders him in his supposed specialist position.
I’m really struggling to see him ever becoming one of the best in the word as a CM. He seem unable to play football like a CM. Which is why we get so many thousands of words typed about exactly what sort of team-mates and formation is needed to somehow get the best out of him. If you’re having to bend over backwards to accomodate any one player, then surely that player is the main problem?
He was great at United when he was there the first time, great with Juventus, great with France after Deschamps let him show leadership, but has behaviour "problems" with Mourinho. At one point, people will need to see the fact that Mou simply doesn't know how to handle him. He will always showboat a bit but he showed many times that he good attack, create and defend, he just need the right frame.Absolutely hated his performance this weekend. In fact, he really irritates me due to the fact that he's quite clearly capable of so much more. But I can't shake the feeling that, under Mourinho, we're not going to see his full capabilities. Imagine he was able to dally on the ball about 10-15 yards further up the pitch - we're always so deep that anytime he receives the ball, its always just a few yards outside of our penalty box. Still doesn't excuse his inconsistent performances.
I'd hate to think that our players, who are paid a fortune, would actively not try but, recently, I wouldn't begrudge anyone for not giving 100%. We've truly become anti-football... again. Honestly, who on earth would want to play for this current Man United team?
I didn't get that impression at all during the match, if someone has any clips with examples it would be far more interesting. It's been a common theme for us that too many of our attempted through balls are from the deep, making it very difficult to get something out of it. Pogba having a tendency to be a bit careless on the ball and failed attempts of showboating is hardly something new, but you rarely see him ignore runs because he wants to take an extra touch.The co-commentator on the coverage I was watching kept mentioning how the front players were making runs that got ignored by our CMs who wanted too many touches or were too afraid to pass the ball forwards. Obviously Pogba the latter doesn’t apply to Pogba but the former definitely does.
Who has performed consistently well over the past year ?Let's be honest, he is clearly a talented player, however he lacks the consistency to ever be classed as a world class player. There is also something seriously wrong with his attitude at the moment as that performance on Saturday was diabolical whatever way you want to dress it up as.
We’ve been bending over backwards to accommodate him by trying a load of different formations and approaches since he got here. Can’t play in a midfield two? Played him in a three. Can’t handle being asked to defend? Give him a free role. Needs to play on the left of a three? Played on the left. And the problems persist, no matter how we set up.How are we bending over backwards to accomodate Pogba ? I have no idea why anyone would focus on one player, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, whoever.
We have an entire team that's underperforming, it's not one player, it's not two players, not 3 players, an entire team, there isn't a single player that consistently plays well.
De Gea...Who has performed consistently well over the past year ?
You mean in terms of players who are world class, because that's what I was referring to. Off the top of my head the usual suspects, Messi, Ronaldo. Modric, Lewa probably more you can add to that.Who has performed consistently well over the past year ?
I mean in terms of current Manchester United players performing consistently well....You mean in terms of players who are world class, because that's what I was referring to. Off the top of my head the usual suspects, Messi, Ronaldo. Modric, Lewa probably more you can add to that.
None of them. I would say De Gea from January to May was at a good level, has been more inconsistent since the world cup. That's probably why we are in the deep mire as we do not have any players who on a consistent basis deliver 8/9 out of 10 performances week in week out.I mean in terms of current Manchester United players performing consistently well....
Yet we have a pretty decent list of quality players.None of them. I would say De Gea from January to May was at a good level, has been more inconsistent since the world cup. That's probably why we are in the deep mire as we do not have any players who on a consistent basis deliver 8/9 out of 10 performances week in week out.
Anyway my point was more saying Pogba is never world class. Has good moments, has great raw ability, but doesnt deliver on a consistent basis, plus also has moments of such poor qualityI mean in terms of current Manchester United players performing consistently well....
If you say so. I would argue and say we dont really. De Gea, Pogba, Martial and I am struggling after thatYet we have a pretty decent list of quality players.
You make it sound like we're constantly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, we're not. Have we been able to get Pogba to consistently play at his highest level, clearly not, is he consistently playing badly ? nah. Even this season he's been one of our best players. Mourinho is well known for issues like this. Why is it that it's "somehow" leaked that Mourinho is furious over Pogbas performance and calling him out ? What happened with Hazard under Mourinho in his last season at the club ?We’ve been bending over backwards to accommodate him by trying a load of different formations and approaches since he got here. Can’t play in a midfield two? Played him in a three. Can’t handle being asked to defend? Give him a free role. Needs to play on the left of a three? Played on the left. And the problems persist, no matter how we set up.
Yes, he is one of many players underperforming and if you want to have a moan about the team/manager in general you can probably find a thread or two better suited to that topic. As far as Pogba is concerned, I just don’t see him ever being the all-round monster of a CM I thought he would become when we signed him. He’s just too self-indulgent, careless and badly disciplined. For all his many flaws, these are not the type of qualities Mourinho is known for bringing out in a player!
He already was one of the best CMs in the world before he even joined us.The way he dallies on the ball and lets players get close to him, so he can try and out-muscled them, is a dreadful waste of time. It just slows our play down. Same with his fondness for juggling the ball. His just doesn’t seem to have the instincts of all the best CMs. Knowing when to keep it simple and when you can take another touch. There’s so much he does that hinders him in his supposed specialist position.
I’m really struggling to see him ever becoming one of the best in the word as a CM. He seem unable to play football like a CM. Which is why we get so many thousands of words typed about exactly what sort of team-mates and formation is needed to somehow get the best out of him. If you’re having to bend over backwards to accomodate any one player, then surely that player is the main problem?
Lukaku ? Alexis Sanchez ?If you say so. I would argue and say we dont really. De Gea, Pogba, Martial and I am struggling after that
Like I said, if you want to have a whinge about Mourinho you won’t find it hard to dig up a dedicated thread...You make it sound like we're constantly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, we're not. Have we been able to get Pogba to consistently play at his highest level, clearly not, is he consistently playing badly ? nah. Even this season he's been one of our best players. Mourinho is well known for issues like this. Why is it that it's "somehow" leaked that Mourinho is furious over Pogbas performance and calling him out ? What happened with Hazard under Mourinho in his last season at the club ?
If you're using Hazard to back up your point, you're pretty much agreeing with Pogue. Hazard was disgraceful that season. Anyone who's arguing that was all down to Jose is being wilfully obtuse. Whatever happens in the future, Pogba has not been good enough this season. I've had enough of Jose but people eventually have to seperate the 2 issues and judge Pogba on what we see on the field. Is he giving everything every game? That is not a high bar for a top player. He clearly isn't and it's not good enough.You make it sound like we're constantly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, we're not. Have we been able to get Pogba to consistently play at his highest level, clearly not, is he consistently playing badly ? nah. Even this season he's been one of our best players. Mourinho is well known for issues like this. Why is it that it's "somehow" leaked that Mourinho is furious over Pogbas performance and calling him out ? What happened with Hazard under Mourinho in his last season at the club ?
Don't really see the problem with bringing up Mourinho in a debate about Pogbas performances, it's not isolated problems.Like I said, if you want to have a whinge about Mourinho you won’t find it hard to dig up a dedicated thread...
Kante played far, far better than Pogba in the WC overall. I would argue that Matuidi out-performed him too. I watched every French game and Pogba was producing the familiar mixed bag of performances we see at United.He already was one of the best CMs in the world before he even joined us.
It's funny this place jizzes themselves over Kante, but in the most important game of either of their careers - Kante was the one who got hooked, and Pogba went onto score and lead their team to a WC final.
Exactly this.If you're using Hazard to back up your point, you're pretty much agreeing with Pogue. Hazard was disgraceful that season. Anyone who's arguing that was all down to Jose is being wilfully obtuse. Whatever happens in the future, Pogba has not been good enough this season. I've had enough of Jose but people eventually have to seperate the 2 issues and judge Pogba on what we see on the field. Is he giving everything every game? That is not a high bar for a top player. He clearly isn't and it's not good enough.
Everyone was disgraceful that season, which is the point. We were busy laughing about the entire situation, and Mourinhos insistence on protecting a select few individuals while the rest of the players were being thrown under the bus.If you're using Hazard to back up your point, you're pretty much agreeing with Pogue. Hazard was disgraceful that season. Anyone who's arguing that was all down to Jose is being wilfully obtuse. Whatever happens in the future, Pogba has not been good enough this season. I've had enough of Jose but people eventually have to seperate the 2 issues and judge Pogba on what we see on the field. Is he giving everything every game? That is not a high bar for a top player. He clearly isn't and it's not good enough.
I don't see how we're accommodating Pogba tbh. If anything we've done the opposite. Accommodating him would be trying to pair him up with what he lacks to the detriment of the side. As far as I'm aware that would mean someone with energy that will do the defensive work. And also someone who will control a game through their passing. This season we have the opposite. We have Matic and Fellaini starting who aren't mobile and aren't really all that good at defensive work. They're also not the most amazing passers like Carrick was or Scholes was.We’ve been bending over backwards to accommodate him by trying a load of different formations and approaches since he got here. Can’t play in a midfield two? Played him in a three. Can’t handle being asked to defend? Give him a free role. Needs to play on the left of a three? Played on the left. And the problems persist, no matter how we set up.
Yes, he is one of many players underperforming and if you want to have a moan about the team/manager in general you can probably find a thread or two better suited to that topic. As far as Pogba is concerned, I just don’t see him ever being the all-round monster of a CM I thought he would become when we signed him. He’s just too self-indulgent, careless and badly disciplined. For all his many flaws, these are not the type of qualities Mourinho is known for bringing out in a player!
So did I and I don't agree with you.Kante played far, far better than Pogba in the WC overall. I would argue that Matuidi out-performed him too. I watched every French game and Pogba was producing the familiar mixed bag of performances we see at United..
The only time I heard anything like that mentioned is when Martial came on the pitch and he made a couple of runs that were ignored. Why would Pogba be shouting at Lukaku and making hand gestures willing people to run if there was plenty of options for him?The co-commentator on the coverage I was watching kept mentioning how the front players were making runs that got ignored by our CMs who wanted too many touches or were too afraid to pass the ball forwards. Obviously Pogba the latter doesn’t apply to Pogba but the former definitely does.
Pogba's lack of effort is his own responsibility. No Mourinho fan but Pogba hasn't a leg to stand on when he doesn't try his best. They both can close the door on the way out as far as I'm concerned. I'll never forget how Pogba downed tools when we needed him most.Don't really see the problem with bringing up Mourinho in a debate about Pogbas performances, it's not isolated problems.
Of course it is which is why we're right to criticize his performance. Now explain the jump from that to wanting to get rid of him given that he's been one of our better players this season and is our best midfielder.Pogba's lack of effort is his own responsibility. No Mourinho fan but Pogba hasn't a leg to stand on when he doesn't try his best.
Spot on.I'm never going to support a player fecking giving up whilst playing for Utd. He was disgraceful out there today.
People paid a lot of money to go and watch us play tonight and were rewarded with a dogshit performance and our best player clearly not giving a shit.
It's appalling.
He is a bad egg who doesn't try. It is an attitude like this that is cancerous in the dressing room. Getting rid is the best course of action. He has had one good game in 6 weeks (Everton at home) and mostly average ones and a few appalling ones( Juve away, Southampton away). The main and key point is ask yourself is he trying his best or care? Only a blind man can't see that he clearly isn't and doesn't.Of course it is which is why we're right to criticize his performance. Now explain the jump from that to wanting to get rid of him given that he's been one of our better players this season and is our best midfielder.
Literally the only performance you can point to him not trying was the last one. You're exaggerating how often that happens. Not every bad performance is him not trying. He's going to have bad performances while he tries.He is a bad egg who doesn't try. It is an attitude like this that is cancerous in the dressing room. Getting rid is the best course of action. He has had one good game in 6 weeks (Everton at home) and mostly average ones and a few appalling ones( Juve away, Southampton away). The main and key point is ask yourself is he trying his best or care? Only a blind man can't see that he clearly isn't and doesn't.
Because a lot of these fans just want new toys every transfer window, they grew up playing football manager and want their fix of new signings. Pogba is by FAR our best midfielder, we spent 80+ million on him. He was brilliant for Juventus and is often very good for France. Played in an attacking team with some real quality around him and some coaching he would be brilliant for us. He strikes me as a player who is so bored on the pitch, nobody around him berates him when he is having a bad game, he has some of the sloppiest footballers around him and even when he does play well he has a manager who will gush praise towards players like Fellaini over him.Of course it is which is why we're right to criticize his performance. Now explain the jump from that to wanting to get rid of him given that he's been one of our better players this season and is our best midfielder.
I Don’t see any desire by him for the team
Still looking !Look closer.
The home leg against Sevilla last season, he came off the bench and put in a similar half arsed disgraceful performance.Literally the only performance you can point to him not trying was the last one. You're exaggerating how often that happens. Not every bad performance is him not trying. He's going to have bad performances while he tries.
My vote for most half arsed performance ever was against Newcastle last season. Made Southampton seem like peak Roy Keane in comparison.The home leg against Sevilla last season, he came off the bench and put in a similar half arsed disgraceful performance.
It's definitely happened more than Saturday.
