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2019-20 Performances


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Hammondo

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I think this summer transfer period was the best price we could have gotten for him, future ones will be lower.

I think building around another midfielder instead of him will improve us a lot.
 

red woppit

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I think this summer transfer period was the best price we could have gotten for him, future ones will be lower.

I think building around another midfielder instead of him will improve us a lot.
Pogba is a very talented lad, but he always looks a bit lethargic, he has the ability to be world class, but just doesn't seem suited to the Prem. Opposing players are always quick to put him under pressure, as he is our 'main man' in midfield, normally he has the strength to muscle his way past a player, but if there are a couple of players on him he struggles to get past them. If he is injured it certainly will be interesting to see how we cope, perhaps Fred coming in on the left, McTominay on the right, with Matic or Mata in the central role (would love to see Gomes in that role). Have always rated Madison in that left midfield position, but a lot of posters class him as a 10, can't see that myself, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 

westmeath

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Can’t get that first half performance out of my mind. What a disgrace this lad is. What a truly disrespectful 45 minutes. Ole should have taken him off before half time. Worst player on the pitch and we would actually have been better off if he got an early red card because then we would have avoided all those stupid turnovers. So bad it was beyond comprehension. All topped off by the comments here about how it was because of the inferior players around him. Time to get rid, cash him in and move on with our lives.
 

DocRockter

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France have Albania / Andorra home-games coming up so if he even a slight knock he should stop down and get ready for Leicester..
 

Pogue Mahone

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That sideshow Bob looking 20 year old at Arsenal gave a more complete and error free central midfield performance today than we get from Pogba in most games. Including an assist with the vision and weight of pass we’re supposed to put up with umpteen schoolboy disposessions in order for Pogba to pull off every now and then.

Maybe we need to sign Xhaka to get those sort of performances out of him regularly?
 
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fps

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You've hit the nail squarely on the head there. Pogba's style of play is not presently a good fit for this league, and he doesn't give the impression that he is prepared to adapt his game to change that.

I believe he will have left before the start of next season and that the move will benefit both him and the club. I also suspect that we'll accept a much lower price for him than is generally supposed (his value has not been enhanced during his time with us). The notion that he is indispensable is pure fantasy.
He really wouldn't be the biggest loss in the world. I'd take £130m for him and buy two top drawer midfielders, one who can run, tackle, harry and pass, another who can run, harry, dribble, pass and shoot. We'd be a better team and squad for it.
 

Jeppers7

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That sideshow Bob looking 20 year old at Arsenal gave a more complete and error free central midfield performance today than we get from Pogba in most games. Including an assist with the vision and weight of pass we’re supposed to put up with umpteen schoolboy disposessions in order for Pogba to pull off every now and then.
So if I'm right you're saying Guendouzi is better than Pogba ? :rolleyes:
 

Stadjer

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France have Albania / Andorra home-games coming up so if he even a slight knock he should stop down and get ready for Leicester..
He should be he most likely wont.

He likes to play football and finally has a chance to play in a team where the supporters appreciate him, where his teammates are on his level and where he doesnt have to do everything by himself and not be blamed for not doing everything by himself.

I imagine he loves playing for France and at the same time getting away from the, currently, very negative place that is Manchester United.
 

izzydiggler

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So if I'm right you're saying Guendouzi is better than Pogba ? :rolleyes:
I'm guessing what he's saying is if far less talented players, along with average team mates can put together complete performances, why can't they supposed 'World class superstar' Pogba?
 

Jeppers7

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Trying to watch any other midfielder in the country play that wall pass Pogba played to Dan James or have the talent and strength to turn and hold off Romeu. Any other midfielder being able to drive from halfway and play inch perfect through balls to their centre forwards like Pogba did twice to Rashford. It just wouldn't happen, no other midfielder in this country is being that productive especially on what was apparently a terrible performance.

The agenda on here is pathetic.

Here's some truth. Selling our best player will not improve us.
 

Jeppers7

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I'm guessing what he's saying is if far less talented players, along with average team mates can put together complete performances, why can't they supposed 'World class superstar' Pogba?
you'd do a straight swap?
 

Canagel

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Trying to watch any other midfielder in the country play that wall pass Pogba played to Dan James or have the talent and strength to turn and hold off Romeu. Any other midfielder being able to drive from halfway and play inch perfect through balls to their centre forwards like Pogba did twice to Rashford. It just wouldn't happen, no other midfielder in this country is being that productive especially on what was apparently a terrible performance.

The agenda on here is pathetic.

Here's some truth. Selling our best player will not improve us.
His balance is just incredible. It's shouldn't possible to be that tall and pull of those skills that he does on a regular basis. When he got released into number 10 it was like a player from a different world entered the game.
 
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Ander herrera the warrior

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Please release Pogba into the number 10 position asap. For all the youth and inexperienced attackers we have playing, having Pogba further up will add so much to the attack. He can score, assist, make great runs and even if he loses the ball, it's not in a dangerous position.
 

fps

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Just to say as well, with a decent centre forward Pogba's two assist-worthy passes would actually have been put in the net, and the game would have been won.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Just to say as well, with a decent centre forward Pogba's two assist-worthy passes would actually have been put in the net, and the game would have been won.
I can’t remember both but one of them was far from a clear cut chance, it was played wide of the goal onto Rashford’s weak foot and he had a defender on him IIRC.

Edit, looking at the stats for the game his xA was actually joint 3rd in the team with Lindelof at 0.28. James was 1st and McT second. Safe to say they were not big chances, rather low probability ones.
 
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finneh

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Laugh however you want. We watch football because of players like PP that entertain us with their magic, not boring robot players with no personality and imagination.
Yes watching Liverpool's midfield win the Champion League must have been such a monotony for the scousers.

I'd much prefer watching the magic of Pogba losing the ball 15 times a game all for that one magic moment in the middle of the park that results in a corner if we're lucky.

Give me a less "magical" Firmino, Eriksen or Kante any day of the week.
 

Swiss_Red89

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He has all the abillity to be an absolute worldbeater, but imo he lacks the football intelligence. He can't control a football game can he?

For example yesterday from 30.minutes to halftime we needed someone to calm things down and control the tempo of the game because Southampton wer pressing and we lost control of the game a bit. Unfortunately very often in this situations he is the one who's doing some unnecessary difficult stuff in the mittle of the park and loses the ball. I get furious on him then.

I think he just isn't that type of a mitfielder and never will be. He needs that type of a midfielder next to him.

Very happy we still have him though, our team would look even more shit without him.
 

Jeppers7

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He has all the abillity to be an absolute worldbeater, but imo he lacks the football intelligence. He can't control a football game can he?

For example yesterday from 30.minutes to halftime we needed someone to calm things down and control the tempo of the game because Southampton wer pressing and we lost control of the game a bit. Unfortunately very often in this situations he is the one who's doing some unnecessary difficult stuff in the mittle of the park and loses the ball. I get furious on him then.

I think he just isn't that type of a mitfielder and never will be. He needs that type of a midfielder next to him.

Very happy we still have him though, our team would look even more shit without him.
What about before and after that period ?
 

stepic

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He shouldn’t be playing so deep. Criminal waste of him back there. Put him in a midfield 3 where he belongs and where his dispossessions in midfield (which will happen with his style of play) don’t put us at so much risk.
 

In Rainbows

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That sideshow Bob looking 20 year old at Arsenal gave a more complete and error free central midfield performance today than we get from Pogba in most games. Including an assist with the vision and weight of pass we’re supposed to put up with umpteen schoolboy disposessions in order for Pogba to pull off every now and then.

Maybe we need to sign Xhaka to get those sort of performances out of him regularly?
I don't even know what you're trying to say anymore. Guendouzi is better than Pogba now? That Pogba needs a partner next to him to not lose the ball? Seriously, you're not acting rational. You're stuck in this "unlock Pogba" narrative and you can't escape it. You clearly don't understand the idea that players compliment other players, and that it has nothing to do with whether or not Pogba will lose the ball or not. He's not as disciplined as other midfielders. Get over it. His quality is still above the likes of Guendouzi and other work horses who sprinkle in a bit of quality every now and then.
 

Canagel

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Yes watching Liverpool's midfield win the Champion League must have been such a monotony for the scousers.

I'd much prefer watching the magic of Pogba losing the ball 15 times a game all for that one magic moment in the middle of the park that results in a corner if we're lucky.

Give me a less "magical" Firmino, Eriksen or Kante any day of the week.
Good for you then. And you know what? I don't care that he lost it 15, 30 or 40 times. As long our team and squad remains as poor as it is now I will prefer to wait for him to produce his magic that nobody else can match. His supposedly bad day still has more creative passing than the other midfielders put together. Infact I can't wait to see how he reinvents his game in the next 6-7 years. Truly a unique player from every aspect.
 

He'sRaldo

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Yes watching Liverpool's midfield win the Champion League must have been such a monotony for the scousers.

I'd much prefer watching the magic of Pogba losing the ball 15 times a game all for that one magic moment in the middle of the park that results in a corner if we're lucky.

Give me a less "magical" Firmino, Eriksen or Kante any day of the week.
Those two are magical players as well.
 

1988

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I do too, but when it comes to who stays at the club I readjust that standard so that everyone is under the same standard.. It doesn't make sense to have a different standard in that context. Otherwise, how would you end up with a squad as good as 2008-2009?

I'm not defending his sloppiness in and of itself. I'm defending his overall quality which includes his good moments and his bad moments. I'm suggesting moving him forward because you yourself stated that he loses the ball which can cost us in deeper areas. Fact of the matter is, Pogba is not Modric, Xavi, or Scholes. He's not going to be that constant source of passing always gravitating towards the ball to receive passes and bail out his partners to help the side retain possession. Quite clearly he likes getting forward from time to time. Nor is he some defensive specialist. He's not disciplined which is why I feel like Gomes if you were to look at 18 year old Pogba in the reserves and Gomes in the reserves, I would be more inclined to believe Gomes could do the job that Pogba can't. Not necessarily a bad thing.

If we recognize this, why would you not want to compliment him with 2 other midfielders who are of that high quality, but for their roles? Midfielders aren't robots who are all well rounded and who are equally good at all facets of the game, with the only difference between midfielders being quality. There are players like Kante who is not that great at passing, but is brilliant at disrupting play. There are players like Modric, who run the show through their passing and are the side's best passing option due to being technically brilliant and disciplined. There are passing specialists who are a bit slow, so become holding midfielders. There are midfielders who have energy as a really big asset to the team. There are jack of all trades midfielders.

If we had Kante instead of Pogba, we instantly become a rock solid side. Thing is, we lose creativity and we still lack a player who can distribute the ball constantly. You don't get rid of Kante because he lacks in those areas. You compliment him with players who are brilliant in those other areas. You compromise by complimenting him with players who their best traits are those things Kante isn't good at, but aren't world class in that department.

This is what we had with Herrera and Matic. Herrera is not prime Vidal, nor is he Keane. He was very valuable to us because he complimented Pogba, but you could still easily upgrade. He was a compromise to an ideal United midfield. McTominay is currently a compromise and he is more useful next to Pogba, then he is if you were to play him next to Vidal and Herrera. His best trait is that he's energetic, but if Vidal and Herrera are already providing that in abundance, you're going to want someone who is a better distributor or someone with Magic to unlock defenses.

Similarly, Matic was a compliment to Pogba only because he was more defensive oriented than our other midfielders. He wasn't some defensive titan like Kante. And because we know Pogba isn't some energetic player (which understandably can frustrate fans), Matic actually is a pretty bad compliment because he's incredibly slow. As a result our midfield still lacked in several areas. He was a compromise, not some ideal Pogba partner meant to solve our midfield.

This is how I view midfields and I would venture a lot of managers view it the same way. It's the same reason why Gerard, Xabi, and Mascherano worked well together. It's the same reason why Busquets complimented Xavi, as he was more defensively gifted, and why Iniesta complimented all 3 by providing more of an attacking asset to the team in the final 3rd. This is why Juve's midfield was largely thought of as the best in the world or 2nd best to Barca's midfield at the time. Vidal complimented Pogba and Pirlo because he provided energy when they lacked it. Pirlo was the passing maestro from deep and would try to break up plays more often by positioning himself as he was the deepest player, and Pogba provided magic from time to time, while chipping in all the other areas, but not being the primary source of those assets.

It's a lot harder to find someone to replace Pogba's production than it is to replace Matic's production, or McTominay's production. If we had Verratti, it would be very hard to find someone to replace him. If we had Kante it would be incredibly hard to replace him. That's why quality is important and teams are scrambling to find those talents.


This is where I agree and disagree with you. I think Pogba would love to stay here, on the condition that United were good enough to compete for the biggest trophies.

And I'm in agreement that we need to try Garner and Gomes. I believe so because they're compliments to Pogba provided they take to men's football like Rashford did initially. A tall ask, but we have no other internal options who fit the profile or have the potential to provide in key areas we lack with or without Pogba.
Have I said anything to suggest I don't know a midfield needs to contain players that compliment each other? I'm saying Pogba has too many flaws in his game for him to be what we need him to be. His negatives heavily outweighs his positives. Yes, he'll have glimpses that'll go well with youtube highlights but we need much more than that.

Sorry for the late reply. Had used up my five posts.
 

In Rainbows

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Have I said anything to suggest I don't know a midfield needs to contain players that compliment each other? I'm saying Pogba has too many flaws in his game for him to be what we need him to be. His negatives heavily outweighs his positives. Yes, he'll have glimpses that'll go well with youtube highlights but we need much more than that.

Sorry for the late reply. Had used up my five posts.
I strongly disagree. His flaws don't negate his positives. If that were true, how was it possible for Juve to have a top 2 midfield in the world at the time? Why was Marchisio benched for Pogba by Conte? Why does France start Pogba for important tournaments when they have quality midfield talents? Would McTominay bench Marchisio? Would McTominay sit next to Kante over other players? No.

Calling his good moments youtube highlights can just as easily be reversed and tell you that his bad moments might make for a good twitter post in order to reduce your criticism, but it's not a good argument.

What do we need him to be? That's a great question and it's great that you brought up that topic. This is where we divide in opinion and why I largely agree with @kouroux and @JPRouve . I see him as a #8, who can heavily contribute to the attack and take over the other midfielder's responsibilities in this one key area. I think he'll chip in those other areas, but never be the primary source for those other parts in midfield.

I'm guessing you want him to be our main distributor from midfield, be disciplined in regards to defensive duty, and also create? If you want the first two, I just don't think you'll get that from him. Why not buy a partner who can do those jobs really really well?

If we get 2 midfielders next to him and he is the clear weak link, I'll be right there with you. I don't think we're there right now though. He's clearly the least of our problems in midfield At least he does something at a very high level. I can't say the same for any of our other midfielders. I just think you're letting your frustrations boil over and because Pogba is one of our most highly regarded players and makes those kind of mistakes, you want to put more of the blame on his shoulders as opposed to just getting him more help because that is what is needed regardless of his negatives.
 

finneh

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Good for you then. And you know what? I don't care that he lost it 15, 30 or 40 times. As long our team and squad remains as poor as it is now I will prefer to wait for him to produce his magic that nobody else can match. His supposedly bad day still has more creative passing than the other midfielders put together. Infact I can't wait to see how he reinvents his game in the next 6-7 years. Truly a unique player from every aspect.
Seems like you support Pogba rather than United if you'd prefer he lose possession 40 times just so you can see him showboat once or twice.
Those two are magical players as well.
I'd say they are effective rather than "magical". Both players are far more substance than style. Pogba is the complete opposite. Compared with for example De Bruyne who is both style and substance.
 

In Rainbows

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Seems like you support Pogba rather than United if you'd prefer he lose possession 40 times just so you can see him showboat once or twice.


I'd say they are effective rather than "magical". Both players are far more substance than style. Pogba is the complete opposite. Compared with for example De Bruyne who is both style and substance.
Pogba is quite effective. He was one of the top chance creators in the PL despite us being terrible last season. That is substance.
 

1988

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I strongly disagree. His flaws don't negate his positives. If that were true, how was it possible for Juve to have a top 2 midfield in the world at the time? Why was Marchisio benched for Pogba by Conte? Why does France start Pogba for important tournaments when they have quality midfield talents? Would McTominay bench Marchisio? Would McTominay sit next to Kante over other players? No.

Calling his good moments youtube highlights can just as easily be reversed and tell you that his bad moments might make for a good twitter post in order to reduce your criticism, but it's not a good argument.

What do we need him to be? That's a great question and it's great that you brought up that topic. This is where we divide in opinion and why I largely agree with @kouroux and @JPRouve . I see him as a #8, who can heavily contribute to the attack and take over the other midfielder's responsibilities in this one key area. I think he'll chip in those other areas, but never be the primary source for those other parts in midfield.

I'm guessing you want him to be our main distributor from midfield, be disciplined in regards to defensive duty, and also create? If you want the first two, I just don't think you'll get that from him. Why not buy a partner who can do those jobs really really well?

If we get 2 midfielders next to him and he is the clear weak link, I'll be right there with you. I don't think we're there right now though. He's clearly the least of our problems in midfield At least he does something at a very high level. I can't say the same for any of our other midfielders. I just think you're letting your frustrations boil over and because Pogba is one of our most highly regarded players and makes those kind of mistakes, you want to put more of the blame on his shoulders as opposed to just getting him more help because that is what is needed regardless of his negatives.
I honestly just want him to stop messing around. I want him to do a rock solid job. We'd be so much better if he did what he does for France etc. Keep it somewhat simple and distribute the ball quicker. Not overdoing things in an attempt to prove something.

We can slate our other midfielders all we want but at the moment I'd say McTominay is doing a far more acceptable job than Pobga. He's obviously limited by his talent but he seems to be aware of his limits. He's not being reckless, tracks back, puts pressure on the opponent and tries to keep the ball moving. Pogba sits on the ball way too much and gets overrun as a result.

As said I hope Pogba proves me wrong and starts doing a good job. Also hoping Solskjær stops with his 4231 and goes back to a 433/4312 as it suits Pogba and our team better. The double pivot is a huge weakness at the moment regardless who plays next to Pogba.
 

finneh

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Pogba is quite effective. He was one of the top chance creators in the PL despite us being terrible last season. That is substance.
In three seasons Pogba has less than half of Eriksen's goals and assists (especially if you exclude penalties) whilst also providing far less defensive work rate.

Maybe a better way of putting is he prioritises style over substance. This benefits Paul Pogba and his brand (see previous post salivating at how magical he is), but is often to the detriment of the team (losing the ball far too frequently and trying flicks where a simple and effective option is available).

I said previously it's like watching an exceptionally talented 17 year old who's been destroying the U18's for a couple of years. The problem is it's a decade later so making poor decisions relentlessly isn't excusable anymore.
 

Jeppers7

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I honestly just want him to stop messing around. I want him to do a rock solid job. We'd be so much better if he did what he does for France etc. Keep it somewhat simple and distribute the ball quicker. Not overdoing things in an attempt to prove something.

We can slate our other midfielders all we want but at the moment I'd say McTominay is doing a far more acceptable job than Pobga. He's obviously limited by his talent but he seems to be aware of his limits. He's not being reckless, tracks back, puts pressure on the opponent and tries to keep the ball moving. Pogba sits on the ball way too much and gets overrun as a result.

As said I hope Pogba proves me wrong and starts doing a good job. Also hoping Solskjær stops with his 4231 and goes back to a 433/4312 as it suits Pogba and our team better. The double pivot is a huge weakness at the moment regardless who plays next to Pogba.
I’ve watched McTomminay through pre season, he looked a different player. I was excited to see him this season.

So far he’s been mediocre at best. Extremely ordinary.

I can only assume his performances are acceptable to you because he’s far less talented ?

That’s a bizarre way to judge performances.
 

haram

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Scott and Pogba are both not being helped by the two man midfield we are playing. Ole needs to change it when the team come back from international break otherwise Leicester could be another case of dropped points.
 

kouroux

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I strongly disagree. His flaws don't negate his positives. If that were true, how was it possible for Juve to have a top 2 midfield in the world at the time? Why was Marchisio benched for Pogba by Conte? Why does France start Pogba for important tournaments when they have quality midfield talents? Would McTominay bench Marchisio? Would McTominay sit next to Kante over other players? No.

Calling his good moments youtube highlights can just as easily be reversed and tell you that his bad moments might make for a good twitter post in order to reduce your criticism, but it's not a good argument.

What do we need him to be? That's a great question and it's great that you brought up that topic. This is where we divide in opinion and why I largely agree with @kouroux and @JPRouve . I see him as a #8, who can heavily contribute to the attack and take over the other midfielder's responsibilities in this one key area. I think he'll chip in those other areas, but never be the primary source for those other parts in midfield.

I'm guessing you want him to be our main distributor from midfield, be disciplined in regards to defensive duty, and also create? If you want the first two, I just don't think you'll get that from him. Why not buy a partner who can do those jobs really really well?

If we get 2 midfielders next to him and he is the clear weak link, I'll be right there with you. I don't think we're there right now though. He's clearly the least of our problems in midfield At least he does something at a very high level. I can't say the same for any of our other midfielders. I just think you're letting your frustrations boil over and because Pogba is one of our most highly regarded players and makes those kind of mistakes, you want to put more of the blame on his shoulders as opposed to just getting him more help because that is what is needed regardless of his negatives.
It's 2019 and still many posters hope that Pogba becomes what he has never been before in his career. He can shine in a well oiled machine but he can never be the "hero" to carry a team. His game has never been about that
 

Chaky_Best

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He was absolutely poor this weekend. Lost so many balls and produced nothing. Don't know if he doesn't want to play, or the system isn't right, but he has been pathetic on Saturday and last week too.

He needs to step up massively
 
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