Love his creativity, skills and abilities. Also adds some well needed aerial strength to the midfield. But every second chance we concede is because him giving away the ball.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 9
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
- Status
MoTM
I absolutely don't understand what this means (we had no new players in midfield or foward positions that had to be accomodated), but this is going nowhere anyway.
Wait brunos goal return doesn't benefit from pens? Come on mate it's not a sensible conversation
don't matter. Our only goal is to win every game and if he helps then so be it
He was moved back (began vs. Wolves away in FA Cup 2019 if I remember) because; 1) the others behind him couldn't provide him with any consistent service at all, 2) they were unable to control the midfield without him.
Remember PSG at home 2019? Teams had worked out that if you man-marked Pogba and pressed Matic/Herrera on the ball from deep, forcing them to dribble or pass long we was outmaneuvered. So Pogba was going through full matches getting zero service. So Ole moved him back to at least get him on the ball, and he was more suited to beating the press. But obviously we had Lingard/Pereira higher up instead then, so we was stuffed either way. It was definitely to the detriment of Pogba back then, but better for the team overall was the thinking.
Last edited:
No, you're obviously not reading the conversation it's a reply to.
Pogba's 'most productive season' was, in a large part, bolstered by him taking penalties, at which he was pretty shit. Him being taken off of them, because he wasn't very good at them, was as large a factor in him not replicating the same productivity in subsequent seasons, as much (or I would argue more so) than any change in position causing his level to drop in open play (in fact, that season was Pogba in a nutshell in open play go back and you'll see all the usual Pogba discussions). Had Pogba not been shit at penalties, he would have still taken them the next season and might have put similar numbers from a deeper position.
Bruno takes penalties still because he's better than Pogba at them, converts them more frequently, and still puts up better numbers than Pogba did from open play in that season. Bruno out stripping Pogba on both those metrics shows pretty clearly that Pogba has never 'surpassed' Bruno's output for us, as was clamed.
Brunos stats are hugely based on pens aswell saying otherwise would be hugely dishonest. Pogba in the same position was generating the exact same output from open play. That's just fact pogba hasn't played there since.
Pogba not replicating that form is simply down to not playing there. When he did he produced what Bruno did.
You really do love him huh?
So much alibies in one post, it's almost impossible to rectify them all.
More suited to beating the press? Now that's just pushing it too far man.
I swear to god, he's probably the most dispossesed player in our team.
If after two replies you're refusing to bother to look at the context of what I am saying then I don't really see there being much point us continuing to talk at cross purposes.
This is true but I think there's a tendency to see his risk-taking only in the negative. Players in his position shouldn't be taking those risks because it leaves us open, end of story. I think that overlooks the fact we are best as a counter-attacking team, and we have few ways to spring a counter from deep other than by taking risks in exactly those areas.
We aren't a particularly good possession side, we don't have wingers that can quickly turn defence into attack, we don't have playmakers in defence, so we're very reliant on exactly those kinds of individual moments to open up the game. There are many times when Pogba gives away possession because he's clumsy or wants to show off, but there's many more that come about because our passing options are so poor. It's either pass it back or go for the hollywood ball. We don't have those passes in between that City or Liverpool find over and over again, where midfield and attack are constantly on the move and you can progressively move the ball through midfield while taking precautions. And he lands more than a few of those hollywood balls.
That's my memory of the period in question. Did you watch us back then?
I take it you don't think highly of Bruno then, with the amount of balls he gives away every match?
He was pushed back because Ole said there was no one could could pass well from deep which was very true at the time (still is aside from him). But that created issues with 4-2-3-1 because no one of quality was at 10.
Quite poor today overall. Not as bad as Martial but loses possession far too much.
It was a poor performance. He could have done much, much, much better.
Even at his best he still loses possession in dangerous areas at least 2 or 3 times per game. And not because his passing is overly ambitious, just because he seems to lack awareness and turns into trouble. He'll continue to be punished for it against top sides.
I just wish he could learn when to keep it simple and when to switch on the flair, as he's got so much natural ability.
I just wish he could learn when to keep it simple and when to switch on the flair, as he's got so much natural ability.
other than a couple of nice moments I thought the performance was shit
we need him to be better than this
we need him to be better than this
He’s playing in a position and in a role where it is natural to lose the ball quite a lot. And to be fair he loses it less than Fred. Also Bruno wastes more balls but because he plays higher up there is not a big risk for conceding a goal.
Tonight, and in other matches, there were simply too many to be ok. And some of them were also because of poor judgement, holding on too long to the ball, or just not being aware of his opponent. If he can improve this part, he’ll become a super important player for us.
This thread really is a perfect example of people see what they set out to see.
Not calling either side correct of course as I'm aware this comment applies to both sides of the argument.
Funny all the same.
Not calling either side correct of course as I'm aware this comment applies to both sides of the argument.
Funny all the same.
Im not a huge fan of him, but I’m surprised to see people saying he was poor. He showed the difference between having an attack minded player and having Fred and McTominay start. He was creating chances and playing the ball through the lines well, top performance.
Thought he played well today. Some cracking passes and runs from deep. Don't really care what his motivations are, but more of this Paul till he leaves.
I have been watching us since i was 9. That was 93/94 season.
He was better at the position in that specific period you are talking about, yes.
Still nowhere near good enough at that position, which we clearly see once we put Bruno there.
I take very highly of Bruno, he rarely gets dispossesed in a way Pogba does. Not to mention the area.
He does give away lots of unnecessary balls away, sometimes very naively, but at least it's in their third of the pitch, not our half.
And so foolishly by Pogba. Like he's trying to prove a point, look at me, i can withstand the pressure of two players on me....when he could simply pass and run. Rarely does that.
You have your opinion of him, i have mine.
We all want the best for the club, i really don't give a feck about individual players in that sense.
Eric was the only one for me.
But, i do think we would be better, as a team, and a club without him.
For sure. Also another way to look at it is, in a game we are behind we are much nor likely to come back with Paul on the pitch that without.
The Leipzig game was proof of that. Shame Ole didn't realise until the 65th minute in that one.
For all his flaws there are many more downsides to not playing him with our current squad.
The Fleck chance in the first half that he completely muffed and should have made it 2-0 sums Pogba up for me. Play is going on down our left hand side and most of our defence and Matic have been sucked over leaving Fleck free in about 35 yards of space and he takes a glance over at him while in our own half and there is nobody around him and then continues to jog toward our own goal towards the ball without even a hint of deviation or bothering to understand that if Sheffield square the ball, Fleck is unmarked and has a free shot at goal. Luckily Fleck is an absolute binner and struck it well wide of Hendersons right hand upright. But my goodness, if we're playing a team with a clinical attacking player he plants that in the bottom right corner without a player near him, leaving Henderson without a chance in the world of saving it. After that chance happened he just turned around and walked off toward the halfway line as if nothing had happened.
It is really mind bending seeing this sort of thing as a basic staple of his all-round game. Regardless of how good he is individually and how well he operated around the middle third.
Fair enough. You've got me beat there.
That's all I'm talking about. Playing him higher up is what got the best out of him in that period. He was only moved back to account for other's deficiencies.
I see Pogba and Bruno as having very similar mentalities once on the ball. They don't care about keeping possession, they just want to create chances. I understand what you mean, I too think pass it quicker, you're making it harder for yourself by stopping, but when it works out (our 3rd goal today), you've got to hold your hands up and admire the courage and skill, so we just have to accept the turnovers are the risk we take when playing him there.
I don't care about individual players over the club of course too, but I do think it's not all black and white with him. Do you not think he has been unfairly scapegoated for our failure's as a club over the years?
I really believe there's a place for him in the team with Bruno, as Bruno alone isn't enough at the highest level. We just need a highly skilled defensive mid to be able to support both Pogba & Bruno. Matic/Fred/McTominay are no where near good enough sadly. That's what we're missing right now.
Like with Dean, it was The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. His deft throughball for Martial, his taking five-six touches too many half the time; his leaving the midfield open to run through, his winning several high balls around our box; his dribling in front of our own box four times in two minutes, resulting in one beautiful counter set off from his Maradona spin, and three Blades transitions thirty yards from our goal that all three of them really were better attacking opportunities than what we had before Bruno heel flicked the ball past Mason to Marcus. I’ll give him a six and a half out of ten in total, but heck if it isn’t frustrating to watch.
Excellent tonight.
I too am fed up with the drama with him, but I do think he gets a rough ride from fans. Pogba created this image of a superstar when the reality is he’s a very good player and that’s it.
Tonight was Pogba. The real Pogba what he actually is. Capable of great moments, pleasing on the eye but bad moments as well. Some days he’ll be better and other days worse. This is how he is for France now and how he was for Juventus as well but keep in mind he had Pirlo and Vidal and Serie A was not nearly as competitive as it is now.
I think if people actually rated Pogba as he actually is and forget the superstar image or FIFA stats you wouldn’t be so upset by his performances.
Tonight was Pogba. The real Pogba what he actually is. Capable of great moments, pleasing on the eye but bad moments as well. Some days he’ll be better and other days worse. This is how he is for France now and how he was for Juventus as well but keep in mind he had Pirlo and Vidal and Serie A was not nearly as competitive as it is now.
I think if people actually rated Pogba as he actually is and forget the superstar image or FIFA stats you wouldn’t be so upset by his performances.
Okay it only was against the bottom team of the league with a single point but he was outstanding.
Oh great two of the worst takes I’ve seen today. That’s enough for me
The problem with Pogba is that he is our best midfielder when he really shouldn't be. I really don't know what's his best position or how to get the best out of him.
We need him on the pitch as he is able to play these killer passes that unlock defenses. None of our other midfielders can remote do what he does from an attacking standpoint. He is a ball carrier and a great passer but gives the ball away in dangerous situations so can't be played behind an attacking midfielder like Bruno. Maybe he can play better in a 3 man midfield when is the most advanced midfielder but then he lacks the movement and general awareness of a forward player.
He is a liability and an asset at the same time. It's a corundum.
We need him on the pitch as he is able to play these killer passes that unlock defenses. None of our other midfielders can remote do what he does from an attacking standpoint. He is a ball carrier and a great passer but gives the ball away in dangerous situations so can't be played behind an attacking midfielder like Bruno. Maybe he can play better in a 3 man midfield when is the most advanced midfielder but then he lacks the movement and general awareness of a forward player.
He is a liability and an asset at the same time. It's a corundum.
He was so good it actually made me a bit sad. Because you see what he can do when he's motivated, when he feels like he has something to prove. And so you have to wonder why he doesn't feel like that every day. He lifts everyone when he plays like that, and you can tell his team mates are in awe of his skills.
If only he could play like that consistently... (and minus the drama)
It dosen't make sense to compare Bruno and Pogba's #s as they didn't play the same position. On another note, great to see him playing well but that business with his agent makes it really hard to appreciate his contribution as of late.
That was a great performance. Mind you it was against the worst team in the league.
I fully expect him to kick on and go back to being mediocre for the next 10 games or so.
I really hope i’m wrong.
I fully expect him to kick on and go back to being mediocre for the next 10 games or so.
I really hope i’m wrong.
God dammit he is so wrong but oh so right. Pogba is a guilty pleasure for this united team
Wish he have spatial awareness like Scholes. Scholes will always avoid body contact when controlling the game, hence why he is deemed untouchable.
I get it he wants to attract two pressers and do a clever skill to create space for others, but I don't think it worth the risks...and if he wants to do that, okay, maybe if we lead with 3 or 4 goals.
Someone should tell him to stop doing that when the games are tight...
I get it he wants to attract two pressers and do a clever skill to create space for others, but I don't think it worth the risks...and if he wants to do that, okay, maybe if we lead with 3 or 4 goals.
Someone should tell him to stop doing that when the games are tight...
The best thing for this United side would be for Pogba to sack Riola and commit to the side fully. Put a proper DM in place of Matic and it would cover a lot of Pogbas weaknesses whilst keeping the passing ability he showed last night.
We're not going to buy 2 CMs in the summer so you're left with Fred or McT playing most games and neither are anywhere near the level Pogba can play at.
We're not going to buy 2 CMs in the summer so you're left with Fred or McT playing most games and neither are anywhere near the level Pogba can play at.
- Status