Think he means a goal incorrectly ruled out for offside I think?
Pep Guardiola
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
The problem is that it was disallowed for offside and nobody is offside.
I get that it's hard to hear. I just can't understand why he'd lash out with his right foot like that if he genuinely thought he was on.
If only we're abit pragmatic and boring during those 2 finals against Barcelona
Still no guarantee of a win, as evidenced by Mourinho's record against Guardiola.
He got fired AFTER he lost the league title to Sir Alex Ferguson so I'm not sure what you're on about. We got a stranglehold over the league and finished our transition but he got fired before along the way anyway.
I didn't count it as a failure either. Just like Pep hasn't failed yet at either of his clubs.
Jose was schooled by a 10 man PSG. At home. While playing defensive football.
Sir Alex went out to lesser teams in the CL a number of times forget a team like Barcelona, who we got schooled by ironically.
We'd still have lost I reckon.
This idea that PRAGMATISM IS KING just because Mourinho's teams do it a few times is so overrated.
When teams come to Old Trafford they tend to do well when they go at us and press us.
Dortmund regularly beat teams with better individuals through a full press and a brave style of football.
Heck, Jose's attempt at pragmatism was downright hilarious in this season's champions league.
If he'd genuinely thought he was on, he'd hit it with his right because he's trying to score. He's not too shabby on his right. He scored a great goal against Le Arse on his right foot for us in his first season. The point is, he thought he was onside, and he went to score. The second off was a farcical decision. Even the time delay from the whistle being blown and to when he takes the shot was minimal.
Incorrect offside robbed Barca of a second goal. So both teams in the tie got some terrible decisions.
Off course hindsight is wonderful, but considering we lost 2 out of 2 final, we probably will still lose 9 out of 10. But if we go ultra defensive, we might nick it by luck or sucker punch. It's just a bigger percentage (which is not always the case normally, but this is the almighty barca with on fire messi) of winning that one match. I know great teams don't alter their play, but barcelona deserves a special treatment.
All I'm saying is that you pragmatism is a thing to master, it's not as if every team can play with 2 banks of four and hold out against Barcelona, at the end of the day you need to be good enough to contain them while good enough to score a goal or two.
Oh of course pragmatism can work well when done well. Just as attack can work well when done well.
Funnily enough, I would have also gone for a defensive approach against barcelona in those finals (particularly the latter).
But my point was a more general one.
When did a Barca player got sent off for something like that? Every teams gets wrong decisions against them and in their favour from time to time, but way too often Barca had to score to get through, and then got an exceptional sending off or got rewarded a penalty that usually isn't and never get given against them. If you add it up, it doesn't even out. It was just too often that they were in trouble, needed a goal and didn't create much, and then there was a remarkable decision from the referee in their favour, not just wrong, one (or more) unusual decision(s) that saved them.
If you need luck like that, you're not that good.
I call it now.
He will extend his contract in the next 2 weeks. There is no way that the club and he go into a final season with all that(stupid) CL winning pressure.
He will extend his contract in the next 2 weeks. There is no way that the club and he go into a final season with all that(stupid) CL winning pressure.
I agree. I pointed this out a few posts later.
At 1-0 and more importantly at 2-0, he should have closed shop to give themselves a chance in the return leg.
How was this luck? Van Persie did something stupid and got sent off for that. It was harsh but it did not somehow award Barcelona 4 goals. They were very much dominating before sending off anyway. This is luck but the fact that they had a correct goal disallowed against Inter cannot be attributed to bad luck? Double standards to the extreme.
Either you're on a WUM or extremely biased. 14 out of 18 possible trophies = underachievement, it's beyond ridiculous really.
Abidal v Chelsea 2009. Sent off for making absolutely no contact on Anelka.
As I sad, there are always wrong decisions going one way or another. That's not the point, the point is that they have had a lot of matches where they were on the brink of K.O. and were saved by a remarkable decision from the referee. It was Chelsea at Stamford bridge with at least 3 decisions, it was the Van Persie sending off which was unprecedented, there was the penalty against Milan which was unprecedented, and that's just from the top of my head.
I said I tend to slight underachievement. Yes I hold him to a high standard, because of the quality of the players, because of Messi, because of what Spain did without Messi, because of their money, because of the level they were at before Guardiola, because of La Masia. It's not because he only won it two times, it's because style in which he won the second and the difficulties in the other years with creating chances against less but still good opposition that I don't think his style of play was that convincing. Lots of possession yes, but creating chances against eleven players when they need to, not really.
How is that possible, they have continuously had the best or second best goal record in all competitions, how many chances do they need to create ?
But it's complete nonsense. These decisions were about as controversial as Inter's offside goal or Bojan's disallowed goal. They probably didn't really need that penalty or sending off to go through because they were a class above their opposition in both games anyway but one way or another we will never know it for certain. You're trying to put their success down to fluke which is pure nonsense though. Going down this path both our CL wins don't count, we had MUCH more luck in both.
All right, if that was underachievement then what were the expectations in your opinion? Winning every single trophy and all games scoring 800 goals and conceding none?
That style of play was not convincing and they struggled to create when it mattered - what the hell? You're talking about a team that beat Bayern 4-0, Real Madrid 5-0, beat them 2-0 in a CL semifinal, beat Arsenal 4-1 in a QF, outclassed Man Utd in BOTH Champions League finals. We couldn't have complained if that second final ended 6-1 to them and you're telling me they struggled to create chances... Wow.
Not only did he grab him by the shoulder, after that their legs touched and Anelka tripped. Could not have been given, but certainly not a remarkable decision in a match littered with remarkable decisions.
"For Bayern Munich, the real challenge now is to win the Bundesliga before the winter break, thereby allowing key players to be rested for up to six months, or ideally never to actually play at all."
http://www.theguardian.com/football...y-ronay-column-boring-title-race-sky-money-tv
There untouchable financial and all-other-things dominance in that league is truly appalling. Bundesliga in many was is fantastic, but the distance between them and second, financially, is far too great to make it much of an exciting race for the title.
http://www.theguardian.com/football...y-ronay-column-boring-title-race-sky-money-tv
There untouchable financial and all-other-things dominance in that league is truly appalling. Bundesliga in many was is fantastic, but the distance between them and second, financially, is far too great to make it much of an exciting race for the title.
Dortmund lost Lewandowski, Sahin, Kagawa and Gotze. They retrieved Kagawa and Sahin for less money and wasted Gotze' money on mkhitaryan. Dortmund could have sold Lewandowski but they acted stupidly, they are the only responsible for what happened.
Nowhere did i excuse his loss saying Messi just turned it on. His tactics failed. And oh yeah Guardiola built that Barca team himself. Mourinho hasn't come anywhere close to building a team like that despite spending way more money. I don't even know why Mourinho is being pulled into this thread but its clear there are Mourinho fanboys always eager to jump on Guardiola's failings and vice versa. If i had to choose im orn the side of Guardiola(although id say they a, i think Mourinho it is massively overrated, bring it on mate.
mourinho fanboys? Am not the one who was asking if ancelotti and mourniho were exposed by their defeats. If you bring their names to defend him then be prepared to accept that both have been more successful than pep so far. Mourniho has build four great teams so, far in his career, it remains to be seen if pep(with his horrible transfer record) can do the same or not. The core nucleus of that barca side Messi, iniesta, xavi, puyol was already there before pep as well although he did take them to the next level to his credit.
The core nucelus of Mourinho's teams were also already there at every club he managed. Ofcourse he builds his teams and Guardiola inherits right?
Mourniho has build four great teams so, far in his career, it remains to be seen if pep(with his horrible transfer record) can do the same or not. The core nucleus of that barca side Messi, iniesta, xavi, puyol was already there before pep as well although he did take them to the next level to his credit.
Check their transfer record and get back to me on that.
Why don't you show me?
Cos am on from my mobile.
You're making the case for Mourinho here. Even if the so called core was already there, they weren't considered world beaters at Porto or Inter prior to the 3 Eurocups he won there. The Porto side were manufactured with very little around Mourinho's ethos at the time, and managed to win the fecking Champions League.
Out of curiosity, do you think that Deschamps reaching the final with Monaco is also as important in his rating. I ask because people tend to underestimate him.
Yeah won the Champions League. Great achievement but not impossible. Porto beating Lyon, Deportivo and Monaco - all very winnable ties. Shocking.
Mourinho is great. For me more proven than Guardiola (even though i prefer Pep). But lets not try to discredit Pep's Barca career when he built that team himself.
It was a fantastic accomplishment at the time. Never quite understood why he didn't progress more at the club level.
As I said before, the history books won't care how hard or easy his path to the trophy was. He won it, and it obviously wasn't a one off since he won it with another club a few years later and has amassed a ridiculous amount of trophies in 13-14 years of management. I don't mean to come off as dismissive to Pep, but for me, I'd would genuinely like to see him grapple with a limited transfer budget at a slightly smaller club, to get a sense of how he navigates around such challenges, and whether at that level, he is capable of branding a squad with the necessary character required to win trophies.
He joined Juventus to help them after the Calciopoli and they treated him badly, I think that they contacted other coaches without proposing him the job (he only signed 1 year) so he left and at Marseille he was good but the DOF used to purchase players that Deschamps didn't wanted. He is excellent but he never found a job in a stable football club.
History books won't care he had Messi and Xavi either. Personally i think Pep will do very well at a club that can provide him decent to good youths and a budget similar to Arsenals(you know like how they can buy good players but not outright compete with top clubs for lavish signings). I don't think he will do well at a club with extremely constrained budget and average players. Because he refuses to take a defensive approach to contain the opposition. That will be a experiment of failure. He'd do well at a club like Arsenal or Valencia imo but not smaller than that. His ideal and philosophy is respectable but not pragmatic.
What we do know is that if nothing changed they would have been knocked out. I don't buy the "Barcelona is a class above their opposition" story which I heard so many times before when they have lots of possession but need to score and don't create that much. That's were people go wrong, if you choose a tactic based on maximum possession, than having lots of possession isn't prove you are a class above the other. If you are a class above the other, you create a lot more chances and score more goals, unless you've had extreme bad luck you don't need a weird sanding off or penalty.
I'm not claiming United were a class above the rest, fantastic, dominating Europe, and overachieving although they had most players from the World Champion and double European Champion ánd the best player in the world.
Do I have to quote myself? "It's not because he only won it two times, it's because style in which he won the second and the difficulties in the other years with creating chances against less but still good opposition that I don't think his style of play was that convincing."
Yes they have done some impressive things, but they had a very impressive bunch of players to. I think they could have struggled a less often against much weaker players with such an extraordinary squad, with different tactics and style of play. The question regarding the achievement of Guardiola, is wether it was the players quality which made them as good as they were, or it was Guardiola's tactics and style. We've seen a different bunch of players with Guardiola's tactics for a second year in a row and seen them fail against the best and struggle against teams with lesser players, and we see Barcelona with the same quality squad with different tactics and style playing very convincingly.
The 2004/05 Monaco side lost quite a few good players that left around the same time as Deschamps - Evra, Adebayor, Rothen, Giuly, Maicon etc.
Monaco is a selling club, they form or develop players and sell them, they are used to it.
@Raoul To add to that lets put it this way. Forget Mourinho. Lets say Benitez vs Guardiola. If i had a club and no money and was give a squad picked from random individuals off the street id rather hire Benitez as my manager. I think he'd do a much better job than Pep. However if i was guaranteed a steady input of good youths every season and transfer budget to buy players id take Guardiola over Benitez any day. The football will be so much better without having to give up on competing for trophies.
Your bias is simply astonishing. How can you possibly say that they struggled to create chances and only had plenty of possession when they consistently scored 100+ goals a season during that era, actually it's probably much closer to the 120 - 130 range for the whole period in all competitions. They were the highest scoring team in Europe for that time, I'm pretty sure of that. They usually had one or two games a season where they struggled to break down their opposition - Chelsea at home in 2009, Inter at home in 2010, none of the games in 2011 and obviously both Chelsea games in 2012 but it's bound to happen to any team, anywhere. They bulldozed their way past opposition often scoring 5+ goals in a game.
The only time you can possibly say that they needed referee's decision to make it through was against Chelsea in 2009, and that was largely because they weren't given a penalty in the first leg and they had plenty of bad luck with finishing in that game. They didn't need referee at all in 2011, it's utter nonsense and they did not need referee against Milan either. You sound as if they consistently relied on referees when that's complete and utter bullshit.
When have Bayern struggled against teams with lesser players? You're talking absolute ridiculous nonsense again. They lost to Real Madrid last year, the most expensive team in the world. This year it's Barcelona who look set to knock them out, all while Bayern are missing two of their best offensive players. Please tell me when exactly have they struggled against lesser opposition because from what I've witnessed so far they've pretty much killed the league by the end of March twice winning nearly all games. The overreaction to their two lost CL games is frankly incredible.
The fact that the exact same team finished 3rd in 2008 behind Villarreal kind of proves that they DID need a manager to be successful but do carry on. Guardiola was crap there, terrible in fact, awful beyond measurement because they had about 3 games in which they struggled to finish their chances during his 4 years there