Perspective

RexHamilton

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I'm not here to tell people they're over reacting. I'm not here to tell people that we shouldn't expect better. I'm not here to tell people anything really, except that we're in a rough patch and it's not nice.

But we've been in rough patches before. Ones that have lasted alot longer. Ones that have lasted two and half decades. So, look, things will get better. We won't win the league this year. We may not even get top 4, but we're not a club that can go back in the doldrums.

So...

Mods: I'm unsure on the legality of posting videos in the football forum. If it's not allowed, I apologise, however, before you ban me, just let the video play and sing along.
 

Cina

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Didn't you make this exact thread before?
 

RexHamilton

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Didn't you make this exact thread before?
I don't think so. But I stand to be corrected. Anyway, I stand by it. United fans sang this on the terraces during worse times than this. It could always be worse. Yes we expect better and with the squad of players we have we're right to expect better, but we've seen United dominate English football for longer than any other team has done. It can't last forever. I don't believe this is the end of our spell at the top of the tree but it is a blip. We're struggling but it could always be worse. That's all I was saying.
 

jem

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I don't think so. But I stand to be corrected. Anyway, I stand by it. United fans sang this on the terraces during worse times than this. It could always be worse. Yes we expect better and with the squad of players we have we're right to expect better, but we've seen United dominate English football for longer than any other team has done. It can't last forever. I don't believe this is the end of our spell at the top of the tree but it is a blip. We're struggling but it could always be worse. That's all I was saying.
It's a fair point - albeit one that's hard to take in at the moment. At the end of the day, I'll be every bit as excited to watch the next game, and the ones that follow. That being said, Moyes needs to sort this out!
 

Lynk

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5 points off 4th, 12 points off the lead.



...and it's December.
 

bosnian_red

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5 points off 4th, 12 points off the lead.



...and it's December.
Although I agree with you... we're also 12 points off relegation spots :p
These things are usually good things to point out when it looks like you'll go on a good run of form and are getting results, or are confident you'll pick up results any game now, like how it was last season while Chelsea was top at the start. As it is though, we're playing worse then the clubs in front of us and we need a big change to start picking up results and climbing up the table. We've got a pretty easy run of fixtures now until new years so we need to take full advantage and close the gap, because the others have a pretty tough run of games during the busy christmas period.
 

dmode

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Come on if we'd won that one the situation would have been completely the opposite... shit happens... move on...
 

Sarni

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Come on if we'd won that one the situation would have been completely the opposite... shit happens... move on...
Not really. Losing to Everton at home hasn't been the only issue this season.
 

Sarni

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Would you be saying the same if we'd won? I doubt it.
That we've been poor in the league this season? Definitely. Why would you doubt that, 25 out of 42 would have still been poor. It's not like a win against Everton would cancel out City disaster or Southampton, Cardiff and West Brom results. We've been all over the place.
 

Tomalonge

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Didn't we lose at home to Everton last year too?

I don't get the panic, we're about to hit the second part of the season and we're due a good run. If we're still shit in February then I'll listen. But not to the Moyes out brigade, it's not even his team yet ffs.

I for one welcome a season of mediocrity if it means getting rid of a few plastics. We'll be challenging next year if not this one still.
 

Sky1981

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How bout this as perspective:

We are that bad. It's not about trying to find a silver lining, it's trying to convince us that we're only waist deep when we're actually submerged under water.
 

Sky1981

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Didn't we lose at home to Everton last year too?

I don't get the panic, we're about to hit the second part of the season and we're due a good run. If we're still shit in February then I'll listen. But not to the Moyes out brigade, it's not even his team yet ffs.

I for one welcome a season of mediocrity if it means getting rid of a few plastics. We'll be challenging next year if not this one still.
Be careful what you wish for. If we languish at 8th, what makes you think we'll gonna challenge next year under the same manager.

It's 20 years for the scouse to at least challenge for the title after their date with souness.

And those plastics, like it or hate it, pays part of Rooney's salary.
 

Mainoldo

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Come on if we'd won that one the situation would have been completely the opposite... shit happens... move on...
But we didnt win did we.. Thats the whole point. We haven't won since Arsenal.
 

RexHamilton

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Didn't we lose at home to Everton last year too?
No. Not since 1992.

And why would this be? I'm sure the scouser fans said the same thing seasons before.
Because we're in a different position. We have put structures in place so that even if we miss out on Champions League football it won't kill us. Obviously missing out on Champions League football would be bad, very bad, but it wouldn't be the end of us. We have huge revenue. We're in a completely different place to where Liverpool were 23 years ago.
 

Getsme

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Be careful what you wish for. If we languish at 8th, what makes you think we'll gonna challenge next year under the same manager.

It's 20 years for the scouse to at least challenge for the title after their date with souness.

And those plastics, like it or hate it, pays part of Rooney's salary.
I agree with this, I don't understand this concept of "it will get rid off the plastics" if we have a bad year or two. Not only could it bring years off being also rans but when we start winning again those "plastics" are going to come straight back.
 

Rozay

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The truth is, myself, and other posters have been critical of the squad from way before this season. We've been a bit rubbish, one-paced and devoid of ideas for at least two seasons, but we those who felt so just couldn't 'prove it', because of our results. We hardly ever, ever, play well. Our players are not good enough. Yes, 'some of them are young and players improve', yes 'some have just come back from injury', but for one reason or another, they have not delivered, and I doubt many of them ever will.

We've lacked any direction whatsoever in the past 3 or so years, and this whole re-building process has been a mess. It has had no structure, we have attempted to replace to class players with mediocre ones pretty much since Ronaldo left. All in the name of seemingly continuing our 'tradition' of 'we don't buy very good players, we buy slightly less good ones, then ask them to do the same job as other teams very good ones'.

De Gea, Smalling and Jones have been class signings and quality long-term investments. Hernandez was perfect for the role he was bought to fill too. And obviously, RVP was proven class. Other than them, I'd say everyone else we have signed or promoted into the team since 2007 have not been good enough. Then we have gone and added a manager to it all that is not proven either, to further multiply the element of risk facing the team.

We're currently Lost in Transition, sadly. The most recent team to come to our house and beat us also have a new manager, who has come in to replace one who has been there more than a decade. They are now what, 5 points ahead of us? And he has actually made changes in terms of style too.
 

Livvie

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The truth is, myself, and other posters have been critical of the squad from way before this season. We've been a bit rubbish, one-paced and devoid of ideas for at least two seasons, but we those who felt so just couldn't 'prove it', because of our results. We hardly ever, ever, play well. Our players are not good enough. Yes, 'some of them are young and players improve', yes 'some have just come back from injury', but for one reason or another, they have not delivered, and I doubt many of them ever will.

We've lacked any direction whatsoever in the past 3 or so years, and this whole re-building process has been a mess. It has had no structure, we have attempted to replace to class players with mediocre ones pretty much since Ronaldo left. All in the name of seemingly continuing our 'tradition' of 'we don't buy very good players, we buy slightly less good ones, then ask them to do the same job as other teams very good ones'.

De Gea, Smalling and Jones have been class signings and quality long-term investments. Hernandez was perfect for the role he was bought to fill too. And obviously, RVP was proven class. Other than them, I'd say everyone else we have signed or promoted into the team since 2007 have not been good enough. Then we have gone and added a manager to it all that is not proven either, to further multiply the element of risk facing the team.

We're currently Lost in Transition, sadly. The most recent team to come to our house and beat us also have a new manager, who has come in to replace one who has been there more than a decade. They are now what, 5 points ahead of us? And he has actually made changes in terms of style too.

Yep.

We've not been good for ages. Well, not consistently good. Rarely exciting. And we don't instil fear. This is not some sudden illness striking. Of course, when anyone tried to point this out, they were jumped on by the 'you're a crap supporter' brigade. But saying we're rubbish (which, comparitively, we are) doesn't mean you're not a good supporter. It might actually mean you're a better one if you still hang in there.

(I'm sure I've spelt 'comparitively' wrong. Comparatively? That doesn't look right either)
 

Rozay

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Yep.

We've not been good for ages. Well, not consistently good. Rarely exciting. And we don't instil fear. This is not some sudden illness striking. Of course, when anyone tried to point this out, they were jumped on by the 'you're a crap supporter' brigade. But saying we're rubbish (which, comparitively, we are) doesn't mean you're not a good supporter. It might actually mean you're a better one if you still hang in there.

(I'm sure I've spelt 'comparitively' wrong. Comparatively? That doesn't look right either)
I think the second comparatively is correct to be honest.

But yes, ultimately you're right. Yea, we might moan. But it isn't like we're going anywhere. I'll still have that 'first date' feeling on saturday that I have always gotten, every single game from pre-season friendly to cup final, where United are involved. I don't see the big deal.

My biggest worry is that I know the slump is not over by a long way. I've watched this team for long enough to know that we will not change on saturday and start passing and moving with tempo. We won't on saturday, and we won't the following saturday either. I don't expect much variation from our 'death by crosses' tactic for the rest of the season (barring changes in January) - all that will happen is that we will sometimes win because we have a few very good players.
 

DanNistelrooy

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I would be content if we used this season as a complete transition season. Bed in the likes of Januzaj, Zaha (why he gets overlooked after pre-season is quite baffling) and start giving the likes of Kagawa, Evans, Rafael a regular place in the team as they are the future of the club - I would also love to see Lingard come back and play a bit part in the squad. Sign a midfielder in January and sort the mess out there and try our lucks in cup competitions. There have been far worse teams win the Champions League/FA Cup than us!
 

Tomalonge

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Be careful what you wish for. If we languish at 8th, what makes you think we'll gonna challenge next year under the same manager.

It's 20 years for the scouse to at least challenge for the title after their date with souness.

And those plastics, like it or hate it, pays part of Rooney's salary.
Pre "Post-Reply" edit: This isn't me having a go at you Sky, this is pent up frustration at others, you may be included in it but I assure you it's nothing personal. (Thought it needed a disclaimer as I did get a bit lost in the moment)

Of course we'll come back, we're Manchester United and we'll never die, we might have to wait a bit longer than people seem to expect though. At the end of the day we've just replaced the greatest manager of all time, and yet people are surprised, shocked and angry that we're not moonwalking the bloody league! I've seen "Moyes out" from quite a lot of people on this forum already and it's so incredibly short sighted that it actually stuns me. He might not be the man for the job, fair cop, but we won't know it until he's had a fair crack of the whip. I've seen disappointing performances (and yes, we have been shite in quite a few games) described as "Unacceptable", "Pathetic" and "A fecking joke". The manager's been blamed, the fans have been blamed, the players have been blamed, the owners have been blamed, the referee's have been blamed, Fred the Red has been blamed.

Here's a radical idea though seeing as this season is a "disgraceful write off"; Let's see what he does, the honeymoon period's going to be over soon and he's got a chance to improve us coming up next month. Him and Eewar Woowar had half a transfer window and although they ballsed it up massively lessons will have been learned.


The scouse? They challenged us for the title under Rafa though. They might not have beat us but they challenged, facht. One season it was very close, and even though they've been off the boil for 20 odd years they've not disappeared into obscurity.

The plastics: Admittedly I don't think twice about the club taking money from the plastics, but in truth I don't have a problem with 95% of them as they're actually fanatical about the club. It's the overly entitled people who demand we win every single game or we're the shittest team ever to wear the crest that I'm getting beyond sick off. I probably phrased it wrong by calling them plastics, I'm talking about the glory hunters. They were bearable when we were winning but I've found myself actually avoiding the forum if we do anything but win. A tactic I may use again, as I checked the match day thread for the Everton game and someone decided that all the players should die.

I understand the disappointment, that's perfectly fine and a little expected. I can understand the frustration that we're not playing to our potential yet, I really do.

What I'll never understand is the hate for our own club, put forward a constructive criticism influenced by two brain cells sparking by all means but stop spouting bollocks. We all want the team to play better after all.

Now, back to shit short posts from my phone instead of these masterpieces from a computer.
 

dmode

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But we didnt win did we.. Thats the whole point. We haven't won since Arsenal.

You should get used to it my dear... we have a new manager and still a proper team... we should give them time... I'd say 2 years max... I'm ready for it... it's frustrating but what else can we do? Fire the manager?
 

Revan

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So pretty much this thread says that we have been shit before so it's ok to be shit again. Okay then.
 

Tomalonge

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So pretty much this thread says that we have been shit before so it's ok to be shit again. Okay then.
No, it's to say we've been shit before but we'll get better again like before.

Nobody has expressed any delight over the situation at the moment, just thought I'd point that out.

Okay then?
 

Revan

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No, it's to say we've been shit before but we'll get better again like before.

Nobody has expressed any delight over the situation at the moment, just thought I'd point that out.

Okay then?
Depending on how much time the chosen one gets, we'll turn good sometimes between 2030 and 2040.

What's the point of deliberately turning to shit because some decades later we'll be good again?
 

Revan

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So he's deliberately making us lose now?

Not even arguing with that shit, piss off.
Of course not. Our decision to hire Moyes was as wrong as you can get and giving Moyes more than a season (considering that inevitably we won't finish on top 4) is the same as deliberately we want to turn to shit.

Moyes is Scottie Parker of managers. Hard worker, defensive, solid. But chances that he'll make us great are the same as Parker gets the Ballon D'Or.
 

Tomalonge

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Of course not. Our decision to hire Moyes was as wrong as you can get and giving Moyes more than a season (considering that inevitably we won't finish on top 4) is the same as deliberately we want to turn to shit.

Moyes is Scottie Parker of managers. Hard worker, defensive, solid. But chances that he'll make us great are the same as Parker gets the Ballon D'Or.
So you'd made your mind up before he was appointed, anything he does won't be good enough for you regardless.

Also, you have no idea where we'll finish this season, don't act like you actually do.

I don't subscribe to the "next manager please" merry go round going on at Chelsea, which is what you appear to be suggesting with your "one season and just one season" approach, it's incredibly short-sighted. All managers need time, not even half a season isn't enough time to judge a person, one season will only give you half an idea. Moyes hasn't had the best start to his United career and there are a lot of reasons for that, some of the blame even lies with himself, undoubtedly. He's got to have time to learn and settle into the role though and if you're convinced that you've already given it him you're undoubtedly one of the stupidest people I've ever spoke to regarding football, and my best mate's a scouser.

If you asked me for my opinion right now I would say "We've not had the best start, Moyes has a lot to improve on, as do the players. I wouldn't be able to judge the season until it's actually over though". I'm not praising the team at the moment but I'm not being a twat about the side I love either.

Ferguson told you to support the new manager, that doesn't mean a couple of games, that means give him fecking time.
 

Sarni

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Didn't we lose at home to Everton last year too?

I don't get the panic, we're about to hit the second part of the season and we're due a good run. If we're still shit in February then I'll listen. But not to the Moyes out brigade, it's not even his team yet ffs.

I for one welcome a season of mediocrity if it means getting rid of a few plastics. We'll be challenging next year if not this one still.
We haven't lost to Everton at Old Trafford in 22 years.
 

Sarni

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Be careful what you wish for. If we languish at 8th, what makes you think we'll gonna challenge next year under the same manager.

It's 20 years for the scouse to at least challenge for the title after their date with souness.

And those plastics, like it or hate it, pays part of Rooney's salary.
Don't you know it's proven fact that managers come good with time?

Bayern should have never replaced Klinsmann for example, Barcelona should have kept Rijkaard and Real Madrid would be better off had Juande Ramos still been there.