Peterson, Harris, etc....

Pexbo

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I still think the fact that he's deemed 'controversial' says much more about those making the claim and the 'current culture' we live in than anything else.
It’s not really that he’s controversial. There’s plenty of contrarians with even more offensive opinions.

It’s that as a person he is all round risible. He’s straight out of satire, presenting himself as this expert professor - on every field, no less - who is all seeing and all knowing and enjoys being the bastion of self help and self control in between bouts of benzo addiction, making himself sick on beef diets and randomly bursting into teas talking about benign subjects.

Anyone with half a brain watches two or three minutes of him, sees straight through his shtick and appreciates him as a comedy act while being utterly bemused at anyone who takes him seriously. It’s like a Sacha Baron Cohen character suddenly became a guru for millions of people while the rest of us live out the Anakin Skywalker meme template. He is some sort of performance art, right?
 

NotThatSoph

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It’s not really that he’s controversial. There’s plenty of contrarians with even more offensive opinions.

It’s that as a person he is all round risible. He’s straight out of satire, presenting himself as this expert professor - on every field, no less - who is all seeing and all knowing and enjoys being the bastion of self help and self control in between bouts of benzo addiction, making himself sick on beef diets and randomly bursting into teas talking about benign subjects.

Anyone with half a brain watches two or three minutes of him, sees straight through his shtick and appreciates him as a comedy act while being utterly bemused at anyone who takes him seriously. It’s like a Sacha Baron Cohen character suddenly became a guru for millions of people while the rest of us live out the Anakin Skywalker meme template. He is some sort of performance art, right?
For me, and I think for a lot of other people, it's also due to the reaction he gets from his fans and people not familiar with him. He's a mess and a horrible person, but if he was ranting in a pub or on Youtube with a few thousand views, who cares, really.

He's the current prime example where his fans' most uttered phrase is "you're taking him out of context", and where they will deny things he's said either because of a combination of extreme confidence coupled with ignorance, or by twisting themselves into pretzels when evidence is staring them in the face. In the late noughties and early parts of last decade it used to be Sam Harris, now it's Jordan Peterson.

One example is that they'll strongly deny that he's right wing or conservative. They'll also use this claim as evidence that his critics are liars and smear merchants. They'll say he's a centrist, a classical liberal or non-political. They'll say he wants universal healthcare, forgetting that he's Canadian or being ignorant of the fact that in many countries most conservatives are. Meanwhile Peterson is preaching at PragerU, writing 12 rules for conservatives, and recently even directly endorsing a member of the Canadian Conservative Party as the next president.

Another example is that whole pronoun thing, where they say that his opposition is only the legal aspect of it; he is opposed to compelled speech by the government, he doesn't have anything against trans people and will use his students' preffered pronouns. And even though he did say those things, with the added caveat that he'll only respect trans students if they present acceptably as their professed gender, whatever that means, he'll also go on national TV and say that he will never use neopronouns, and that they/their as a gender neutral pronoun doesn't work, making it effectively impossible for him to use the preffered pronouns of non-binary people. He'll do newspaper interviews where he directly and purposefully misgender a non-binary colleague of his, and he'll go on Rex Murphy where they both purposefully misgender a trans woman because they think (probably correctly) that she's a bad person, thereby proving that it's not just the non-binary he has problems with. He'll also do interviews where he calls people identifying as a trans a psychological epidemic, and likens it to other crazes like hysteria in women or the multiple personality disorder part of schizofrenia that isn't real. Not exactly a hallmark of respect to say that trans people aren't actually trans.

There are plenty more examples, of course, this is just an illustration.
 

Kinsella

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It’s not really that he’s controversial. There’s plenty of contrarians with even more offensive opinions.

It’s that as a person he is all round risible. He’s straight out of satire, presenting himself as this expert professor - on every field, no less - who is all seeing and all knowing and enjoys being the bastion of self help and self control in between bouts of benzo addiction, making himself sick on beef diets and randomly bursting into teas talking about benign subjects.

Anyone with half a brain watches two or three minutes of him, sees straight through his shtick and appreciates him as a comedy act while being utterly bemused at anyone who takes him seriously. It’s like a Sacha Baron Cohen character suddenly became a guru for millions of people while the rest of us live out the Anakin Skywalker meme template. He is some sort of performance art, right?
My knowledge of his rise to prominence rests with his initial interactions with students at a Canadian university (which went viral), together with his early appearances on Joe Rogan and then of course the famous Cathy Newman and GQ interviews. As I recall most of these concerned gender, gender discrimination and the gender pay gap, discrimination, and rights and responsibilities amongst other things.

He wasn't articulating something shocking but simply something that hadn't been talked about in the public, or at least, media sphere for a long time, and for which there was a strong appetite. The reason the Cathy Newman and GQ interviews for example helped to propel his popularity wasn't just because of Peterson himself, but it was also down to the interviewers, who expressed a world view that I'd say many or most in those circles subscribe to. If he was simply voicing contrarian views at this point, what does that say about the prevailing view?

As for him straying out of his lane, that may very well be the case and there's a very long history of 'intellectuals' doing just that.
 

berbatrick

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this sack of shit built his name with speech-at-work issues. he, of course, was not fired for his transgressive speech, but made his name off the possibility of being fired/jailed.


it's impossible/dumb to take anyone who professes free speech as their #1 issue seriously, they NEVER ever mean it.
 

NotThatSoph

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Unless the physician has a criminal record I suppose even fans can now admit that it's not just about hypothetical compelled speech, and that he is in fact anti trans? Even if the misgendering isn't enough, the breast removal comment is going to be hard to explain away.
 

Suv666

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Disappointing to see Mike Judge on Rogan. Office Space was r/antiwork before r/antiwork.
 

Raoul

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Disappointing to see Mike Judge on Rogan. Office Space was r/antiwork before r/antiwork.
Rogan reaches millions of people, many of whom don't agree with his politics, which is presumably most want to be on the podcast.
 

shamans

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I still think the fact that he's deemed 'controversial' says much more about those making the claim and the 'current culture' we live in than anything else.
Quite honestly I'm not against some of his actual content. I mean more the clean your room sort of stuff. It's not bad. Some of his takes are just so juvenile though.

The main thing is just how weird he is about it all.

The worst thing about him and Shapiro is they try and make some deep philosophical argument for their own biases. Shapiro to be fair is worse and a real hypocrite.

I find Jordan Peterson to be an interesting character in some aspects really. His fan following of incels really see him as a savior.

His whole take on identity politics etc is very dumb though
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Quite honestly I'm not against some of his actual content. I mean more the clean your room sort of stuff. It's not bad. Some of his takes are just so juvenile though.

The main thing is just how weird he is about it all.

The worst thing about him and Shapiro is they try and make some deep philosophical argument for their own biases. Shapiro to be fair is worse and a real hypocrite.

I find Jordan Peterson to be an interesting character in some aspects really. His fan following of incels really see him as a savior.

His whole take on identity politics etc is very dumb though
On the days and weeks that Kanye is off his meds, living in a football stadium, wearing a morph suit, asking Zuckerberg to find his creative visions….. He’s closer to the real world than Peterson on his best day.

The fella sounds sensible. He’s a fraud. A small minded snowflake pretending his worldly and wise. An intellectual midget fancying himself as a titan.

Questioner : “How do you feel about this?”
Peterson : “I can’t talk about that without also considering this-brainless-unrelated-word-salad-that-joins-dots-for-no-reason… So I guess the question is how YOU feel. In yourself. Your. Self. The true self. Because that’s all that matters. In the end.
[Red Pillers go wild]
Questioner : ?
[Red Pillers - “Leftist has no reply to Dr Jordan B Peterson”]

He hasn’t got an original thought that’s supported by anyone reputable. He’s a nonsensical shyster that talks in overly verbose self help language.

He made more sense in his coma and the world was a better place before he woke up again.
 

shamans

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On the days and weeks that Kanye is off his meds, living in a football stadium, wearing a morph suit, asking Zuckerberg to find his creative visions….. He’s closer to the real world than Peterson on his best day.

The fella sounds sensible. He’s a fraud. A small minded snowflake pretending his worldly and wise. An intellectual midget fancying himself as a titan.

Questioner : “How do you feel about this?”
Peterson : “I can’t talk about that without also considering this-brainless-unrelated-word-salad-that-joins-dots-for-no-reason… So I guess the question is how YOU feel. In yourself. Your. Self. The true self. Because that’s all that matters. In the end.
[Red Pillers go wild]
Questioner : ?
[Red Pillers - “Leftist has no reply to Dr Jordan B Peterson”]

He hasn’t got an original thought that’s supported by anyone reputable. He’s a nonsensical shyster that talks in overly verbose self help language.

He made more sense in his coma and the world was a better place before he woke up again.
Well needless to say I find that harsh. I have put Jordan Peterson safely in the useless joker category but I have listened to him on and off. Yes most of his arguments are twisting philosophies and his fans are just hopeless who think he is a beacon of light but he does have some interesting things to say.

He also has a propensity to blurt absolutely stupid things in his attempts to defend his odd stances. He's a weird guy in general as well. If you listen to him long enough though (which I wouldn't really advice. I only do it because I have time to kill and I like listening to speech over music sometimes) he can come up with some insightful stuff. Most of that is not related to gender or identity politics etc. He is hopeless on those topics.

I like to categorize between someone who is a total Buffoon like Donald Trump or someone who is nothing but a hypocrite full of bad faith arguments like Ben Shapiro vs someone like Jordan Peterson who I think tries to, at times, reason but its mostly nonsense.
 

VorZakone

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Peterson started out somewhat lucid and sane. His back and forth with Cathy Newman was fun.

But lately he's gone nutty.
 

WPMUFC

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how it never twigged in his fans that "something's not right" after he decided to treat drug addition with a "Russian Coma therapy" and claiming literally the whole of North American healthcare couldn't treat him is beyond me.

Like I said previously, the drug addition, "Russian Coma therapy", wild mood swings, promoting wild changes in lifestyle (all meat diet), I'm shocked he kept his academic position for as long as he did.
 

Gehrman

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how it never twigged in his fans that "something's not right" after he decided to treat drug addition with a "Russian Coma therapy" and claiming literally the whole of North American healthcare couldn't treat him is beyond me.

Like I said previously, the drug addition, "Russian Coma therapy", wild mood swings, promoting wild changes in lifestyle (all meat diet), I'm shocked he kept his academic position for as long as he did.
I don't really think its fair to call him a drug addict unless you consider all patients who can't get off psychiatric medications, drug addicts. His strategy to get off was mindblowingy stupid though.

I take clonazepam as well because its the only medication that works for treating the anxiety I have associated with a health condition that makes most people suicidal.
 

caid

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I don't really think its fair to call him a drug addict unless you consider all patients who can't get off psychiatric medications, drug addicts. His strategy to get off was mindblowingy stupid though.

I take clonazepam as well because its the only medication that works for treating the anxiety I have associated with a health condition that makes most people suicidal.
I think he was misusing it to be fair. I think he said as much himself and doesn't seem particularly self reflective as a rule.
 

Bobski

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Peterson started out somewhat lucid and sane. His back and forth with Cathy Newman was fun.

But lately he's gone nutty.
The sad thing about Petersen is that some of his early stuff for disaffected young men is quite good and he delivered it with feeling, but whatever positive impact that could have is vastly outweighed by all the nonsense and dangerous shit he speaks.
 

caid

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The sad thing about Petersen is that some of his early stuff for disaffected young men is quite good and he delivered it with feeling, but whatever positive impact that could have is vastly outweighed by all the nonsense and dangerous shit he speaks.
He definitely lost the plot.
He could have been an interesting guest on a podcast once but everything that came after and as soon as he leaves his area of expertise is nonsensical and the fame that came with it drove him a bit mad (which is probably fair enough, i'd say his life is completely bizarre these days). Or madder, he was probably a bit neurotic and weird already, many college professors are.
I'd probably pay more attention to a homeless dude with a 'the end is nigh' sign at this point, paying any attention to Peterson just seems a waste of time.
 

nimic

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The sad thing about Petersen is that some of his early stuff for disaffected young men is quite good and he delivered it with feeling, but whatever positive impact that could have is vastly outweighed by all the nonsense and dangerous shit he speaks.
And that's also one of the most dangerous aspects of his fandom. People who got in in the ground floor, who were convinced by his more mundane self-improvement stuff, have followed along with his radicalization.
 

Mike Smalling

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Marxism has well and truly arrived. You can't even buy a snowmobile anymore, and the cruise-ships are being scrapped.