Not sure very good is how I would describe him Pogue at defending. He's a bit of a mistake waiting to happen, hope he kicks on but I feel more comfortable with Evans or Rojo along side Smalling.
Phil Jones Crawl
- Thread starter FortBoyard
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Not sure very good is how I would describe him Pogue at defending. He's a bit of a mistake waiting to happen, hope he kicks on but I feel more comfortable with Evans or Rojo along side Smalling.
He's definitely got mistakes in him but there's a good chance he'll iron those out as he matures. People seem to obsess about those errors and ignore the overall performance, though. He was actually very good against Arsenal, despite the ridiculousness that prompted this thread. And has been defensively very solid for most of this season. He's improved a lot on previous seasons and is coming along nicely. He's already very good for his age and I don't see why he can't go on to become a really top class CB (well, I do, injuries but if he can put them behind him...)
Remind me again, how did Rooney manage to end up looking like this?
Would't be thanks to this fella, would it?
Although I believe he cut Rooney with his studs
But of course Jones is a very talented young defender. I remember someone making a post about how we should call him 'The Verge', because he always seems to be on the verge of fecking up or making a big mistake, yet it hardly ever happens. Except for injuring himself and other players obviously.
Being Dutch, I've seen Stefan de Vrij a lot over the years. He's doing well at Lazio who are 3th in the Serie A. De Vrij is what I would call a good, talented young defender. He's exactly as old as Phil Jones and ever since both hit the scene, Jones has been a better player. De Vrij is more composed on the ball, but in almost every other department Jones tops him.
And Jones is actually pretty good on the ball, it just looks weird at times. The fact that Van Gaal prefers Jones over Smalling at the left side of defense shows who he rates better on the ball out of those two, because playing on the left side is more difficult for a right footer. And let's not forget some of his midfield performances when he was 20 years of age, against Real Madrid for example. Smalling and Jones are one hell of a defensive pair in terms of potential, with Smalling being slightly more calm and intelligent in his defending. While Phil Jones indeed looks like a dog in human form
But I'm convinced Van Gaal loves Jones, and his ability to be incredibly agressive without fecking up so much is very useful for the high line pressing and type of football we want to play. He's definitely a Ramos though, and never will be a Maldini.
Would't be thanks to this fella, would it?
Although I believe he cut Rooney with his studs
But of course Jones is a very talented young defender. I remember someone making a post about how we should call him 'The Verge', because he always seems to be on the verge of fecking up or making a big mistake, yet it hardly ever happens. Except for injuring himself and other players obviously.
Being Dutch, I've seen Stefan de Vrij a lot over the years. He's doing well at Lazio who are 3th in the Serie A. De Vrij is what I would call a good, talented young defender. He's exactly as old as Phil Jones and ever since both hit the scene, Jones has been a better player. De Vrij is more composed on the ball, but in almost every other department Jones tops him.
And Jones is actually pretty good on the ball, it just looks weird at times. The fact that Van Gaal prefers Jones over Smalling at the left side of defense shows who he rates better on the ball out of those two, because playing on the left side is more difficult for a right footer. And let's not forget some of his midfield performances when he was 20 years of age, against Real Madrid for example. Smalling and Jones are one hell of a defensive pair in terms of potential, with Smalling being slightly more calm and intelligent in his defending. While Phil Jones indeed looks like a dog in human form
But I'm convinced Van Gaal loves Jones, and his ability to be incredibly agressive without fecking up so much is very useful for the high line pressing and type of football we want to play. He's definitely a Ramos though, and never will be a Maldini.
If John Terry had done it, the press would have been raving about his putting his body on the line, England's brave JT.
When Jones does it, he is ridiculed.
When Jones does it, he is ridiculed.
I never had that Facebook cover photo nonsense. Until now.
That's a great effort to be honest. @Nucks would be proud of how he is putting his body on the line!
I am, my only gripe is that he let it get to that point where he had to crawl after the ball like a seal. Had he simply led with his face initially, the ball would have been stopped immediately and he wouldn't face the possibility that this will go viral.
If in doubt, lead with the face. That's what my granpappy who fought in 3 world wars always said.
I know he screwed up in the build up there but it takes some guts to put your head in between the boot of a striker and the ball. I think he did well with that little header at the end to stop Giroud from reaching it. It looks funny as feck but still an amazing effort defense wise:
Reminds me of this a little bit:
Quality, not as good as John Terry's against Slovenia in South Africa, anyone got that one?
He slipped and made an absolutely fantastic recovery!
Me too i changed mine to this last night
He certainly has the attributes physically but it's his decision making for me is poor. He can't win the ball all the time and needs to accept this (sometimes you don't want to challenge). He seems to make the same or similar errors over and that's a worry. Good squad player atm but has to improve massively to be a regular for me.
Well can you honestly imagine Di Maria throwing his head in front of a foot and/or ball like that?
It's incredibly unlikely but if it happened he'd probably get universal acclaim on here, as a lot of people are worried that he's a bit of a fanny. I know I'd like to see him stick his head in where it hurts, for once.
It just gets funnier and funnier, the more you watch it. The 'salute' is too much.
If ADM provided anywhere near the comedy value that Jones does, he'd be one of my favourites (as Jones has now become.)
He's just nuts, no other words to describe him.
I see what you are saying but do you remember the job he did man marking Ronaldo during the champions league semis? He was outstanding! What we are forgetting is that he's only in his earl twenties and unlike someone like Cahil he has had to learn it his self without the benefit of an experienced centre back guiding him. He's also been playing out of position a lot, that can't help anyone master their position. Mark my words the best of Phil is yet to come, you certainly can't fault his bravery!
Di maria provides assists and he is criticized. Jones produce heading the floor and hes loved. I wonder which one of them would be wanted by foreign top clubs if they both become available
That's right. Di Maria is criticised for his assists and Jones is loved because he heads the floor. Christ. You don't help yourself.
Not really what i am saying is that some people get away with it too easily because they happen to be workhorses (and nothing else). You win the honours with talent not workhorses. Else stoke would be in the road of winning the treble.
No. You need both.
A player may be talented and hardworking (ex Cantona). Most of them are. A workhorse is just hardworking. They hide behind their 'work rate' because they are average players. I think that British people need to appreciate and understand more the former and less the latter. Hence they will be able to take more out of the likes of Scholes, Rio, Hoddle and co and who knows maybe they wont end up with 'brave' specimen who heads the ground representing them.
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I didn't post the photo just because it had Cantona in it. Do you recognise the other guy?
No. You need both.
Brilliant. "Steve Who?... he'll never make it".
My point exactly.
Bruce may have been a great defender for the EPL of the time which struggled back then against the top foreign clubs. However those who got raised up watching the likes of Baresi, Bergomi, Maldini and Koeman play knew the massive gap between what the EPL of the time could offer in terms of defenders as compared to what the other leagues could offer. The likes of Bruce would have struggled in the late 80s and early 90s Serie A. He lacked the speed, the brilliance and the positioning sense to make it. A brick wall may be great to keep the typical England's striker of the time at bay but would have ended up slaughtered by the likes of Romario, Stoichkov, Roberto Baggio or Van Basten who had more to offer than simple physical strength or pace.
Incidently few years (or decade) later England would end up producing the best defender of his generation, a genius in his own right. His name? Rio Ferdinand. Rio had everything, speed, positional sense, leadership, intelligence and technique. If he was Italian he would have been likened to the true greats such as Maldini (he reminded me a lot of him) for the simple reason that he had no weaknesses and could win the ball without having to dive in tackles. Unfortunately there's plenty of EPL fans around who prefer Vidic or Terry instead of him. There again, we're talking about fans who question whether Scholes (another British gem and a unique player in his own right) is better than frigging Lampard and who find Jones antic of heading the pitch as a show of commitment rather then simply.....sad.
And before you criticize me I invite you to first sit down, take a beer and watch some old matches of the time. I did that with my cousin few weeks ago and we were both amazed about the amount of space British defenders used to allow opposition to do the damage.
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Jonesenbauer calls that a slip header. It was deliberate.
I certainly agree about Rio being that good, and Scholes. Nice post.
What freaks me out even more is the fact that Giroud's hair is still perfect after sweating and running for the last God knows how many minutes..
I can't speak for others, but I just found it hilarious. There's no doubt a good discussion to be had regarding the merits of Phil Jones the defender, and whether or not British defenders are as good as their continental counterparts and whether they are held to different standards, etc...
However, a thread devoted to a clip of Phil Jones stumbling, saluting the ground and then placing his head in front of a ball is not the place for such a discussion. Honestly, it's like using that great gif of Mata and De Gea having a laugh in a car and hitting Mourinho (courtesy of a Phil Jones face distraction) as the basis for a discussion on continental driving habits.
But all joking aside (and it's not an easy thing to do given how much this gif cracks me up,) is it not a good thing that he's willing to sacrifice himself like this? There has been no shortage of talented individuals over the years, in many different sports, who simply didn't show the commitment to succeed, to do whatever's necessary to help his team. Here's an obvious example:
He was one crazy mofo. But he was our crazy mofo.I know he screwed up in the build up there but it takes some guts to put your head in between the boot of a striker and the ball. I think he did well with that little header at the end to stop Giroud from reaching it. It looks funny as feck but still an amazing effort defense wise:
Reminds me of this a little bit:
Not really. To be a United defender you need to be an excellent defender, an excellent defender wouldn't end up doing this sort of shit because he doesn't need to. There's a fine line between being committed (ex Ince coming back on the pitch despite bleeding) and being desperate.
I'm not claiming he's excellent at defending (at least not yet,) but I do like the fact that he was so committed/desperate to atone for his mistake.
Im only saying that a United level of player shouldn't end up doing these sort of things. There's a reason why, possibly the most committed player United had in the past 20 years ended up laughing at him on life telly. As said there's a fine line between being committed and being desperate/stupid.
Also if you check my posts about my United team for next year you'll notice that I wouldnt want Jones to leave. However we do need to add quality competition to both Smalling and him. There's too much complecency in CB at the moment
Some strange opinions here. We all know he made a mistake to be in that position but that happens. 99% of defenders in that position would have given up and let Giroud score. Surely the fact that he was willing to do anything it took to stop a goal has to be seen as a positive. If Vidic had done it he'd be hailed as a hero.
One of our defenders just headed the ground in order to stop a goal and you think there's too much complacency.