Has it ever occurred to you that your friends might be idiots and it's high time to look for new ones?
Poppies and remembrance at football matches
- Thread starter RW2
- Start date
I don't find anything in what you've said that I disagree with but do we still need a campaign?
Luckily, I don't really see them a lot. Mostly over social media, where I could safely ignore them or avoid them altogether. The unfollow works wonders on social media.
It is not just my friends, many people I have seen take this "You are either with us or against us" kind of arguments. Nowadays. I steer clear of most nationalistic/political talks.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46099843
In his statement, Matic said: "I recognise fully why people wear poppies, I totally respect everyone's right to do so and I have total sympathy for anyone who has lost loved ones due to conflict.
"However, for me it is only a reminder of an attack that I felt personally as a young, frightened 12-year old boy living in Vrelo, as my country was devastated by the bombing of Serbia in 1999.
"Whilst I have done so previously, on reflection I now don't feel it is right for me to wear the poppy on my shirt.
"I do not want to undermine the poppy as a symbol of pride within Britain or offend anyone, however, we are all a product of our own upbringing and this is a personal choice for the reasons outlined.
"I hope everyone understands my reasons now that I have explained them and I can concentrate on helping the team in the games that lie ahead."
The Royal British Legion said "the decision to wear the poppy must be a matter of personal choice".
In his statement, Matic said: "I recognise fully why people wear poppies, I totally respect everyone's right to do so and I have total sympathy for anyone who has lost loved ones due to conflict.
"However, for me it is only a reminder of an attack that I felt personally as a young, frightened 12-year old boy living in Vrelo, as my country was devastated by the bombing of Serbia in 1999.
"Whilst I have done so previously, on reflection I now don't feel it is right for me to wear the poppy on my shirt.
"I do not want to undermine the poppy as a symbol of pride within Britain or offend anyone, however, we are all a product of our own upbringing and this is a personal choice for the reasons outlined.
"I hope everyone understands my reasons now that I have explained them and I can concentrate on helping the team in the games that lie ahead."
The Royal British Legion said "the decision to wear the poppy must be a matter of personal choice".
Ah yes, that's the thing with the social media nowadays, you can spout any shit there and pretend your shit is worth hearing.
Yeah, I can understand the steering clear part as I pretty much do the same, trick here being, I'd call myself a nationalist. I could never bring myself to connect it with the army though as I consider our (and not only ours) soldiers who go to the Iraqs and Afghanistans as blood and money hungry mercenaries, nothing to do with the heritage of those soldiers who have died fighting for Poland during the wars and uprisings.
There was the interesting situation with Leicester this weekend, when I can't imagine a single person anywhere took issue with the Leicester player revealing the slogan on his t-shirt after he scored, but the ref somewhat sheepishly felt he had to book him and to his great credit, the Leicester manager after the game said he understood, agreed and took no issue with the ref for upholding the laws of the game
You can definitely make an argument that players being forced to wear kick it out t-shirts is wrong and you can certainly make arguments that the campaign is far from perfect. Indeed several black PL players have refused to wear the t-shirts because they felt strongly certain cases were handled poorly
But whilst you can politicise an anti-racism campaign, I don't really see that as being political in the same sense as the issue we are talking about - the FA, completely incorrectly, stated the poppy is not a political statement in their argument with FIFA which is most definitely not the case, particularly in the context of an international game.
Classy from Matic.
It is indeed
But a crying shame that anyone, in any walk of life, whether with a high profile or not, should be asked the question or have to explain themselves. Even more so for someone who isn't even British - can you imagine asking someone at whatever company you work for, who isn't British, why they aren't wearing a poppy ? Or going home and saying to your missus 'you won't believe it, you know that Polish supervisor in the warehouse - he wasn't wearing a poppy today !'
It annoys me far more when it's used as s political agenda, if sonsome wants to wear a poppy should be their choice and the buck stops there, if they so choose not too then like I've mentioned previously anf if it's not offensive then they should have that choice.
I don't find it classy, I find it hypocritical, but I'm from Bosnia so I'm very biased about it. His country wasn't bombed (if you can even call that thing bombing) for no reason, it's because of Serbia's 90's warmongering politics. He's playing in England for years and now he's making thing out of it, c'mon. 
The poppy was not a political symbol. It was sold to raise funds for ex-servicemen and their families and commemorate servicemen and women who lost their lives during the world wars. Unfortunately it has been politicised by other people who use it for their own agendas.
Again don't disagree with anything but when you attach or insert an objective that has nothing to do with the objects, rules, regulations and or aims of the game then anything is or can be political. I always think though that you have to be careful that you don't lose something vital when you throw everything out.
It blows my mind that Matic, McClean or anyone else have to release statements about this. The irony is lost on the neanderthals who abuse them.
7 pages now and no-one disagrees with anyone.
The small minded will always be with us. Fortunately they are either not here in this forum or they are keeping their heads below the parapet.
As has been said above, Why should these players have to release statements explaining why they won't wear a poppy? Is this not a democracy anymore? Surely People should be able to make up their own minds about whether or not to wear one. The poppy as a symbol of remembrance is fine. Using it to make political points is wrong. I won't wear one, I'm descended from Irish catholics. Some people feel its ok to abuse me for My decision. What they don't know is My Irish Catholic Grandparents and Great Grandparents fought in both World Wars.
He had little hand in his country's politics at the age of 12.I don't find it classy, I find it hypocritical, but I'm from Bosnia so I'm very biased about it. His country wasn't bombed (if you can even call that thing bombing) for no reason, it's because of Serbia's 90's warmongering politics. He's playing in England for years and now he's making thing out of it, c'mon.
Besides, no one who has seen his friends/neighbours/family get bombed would feel, it was all well deserved. Even if they think the politicians of his country were bad, they would hardly be thankful to the person who put the bomb in
Of course, I'm not even implying he has(d) anything to do with it.
But this whole statement is kind of different if you're reading it from Balkans country, that's all.
Did he bomb anyone ? He was a 12 yr old growing up in a country under bomb attacks .
Edit sorry I picked the wrong quote
So he should go outside, wave to the bombers and thank them for doing the right thing? As a child even? Are you even being serious right now with this kind of thinking? Just wow.I don't find it classy, I find it hypocritical, but I'm from Bosnia so I'm very biased about it. His country wasn't bombed (if you can even call that thing bombing) for no reason, it's because of Serbia's 90's warmongering politics. He's playing in England for years and now he's making thing out of it, c'mon.
Huh? You'd have to be pretty weird to be money hungry and join the army. The pay is terrible.
You certainly get some blood hungry bastards joining, but they're a minority in my experience, people's reasons for joining vary from a sense of duty to a simple feeling that they have no other options.
Once you're in, it's not like they give you a choice of where to deploy you or what conflicts you want to abstain from, you follow orders.
I mean, if you can't understand my point of view then there's no point arguing. I find his statement hypocritical, my whole country does (this was news here too). I had two months when his country bombed mine for four years, had to watch out for landmines when I started going to school. It's not his fault, it's his country's, but he's not defending himself in his statement so it's not about him. Do you even know why NATO bombed them in 1999?
I like Matić, always did, but this thing bothers me.
Those are it's origins but unfortunately you're right it has been consumed by politics. The vast majority of the men who lost their lives were ordinary working class folks, nothing more than cannon fodder, and the poppy used to be a solemn remembrance of the their sacrifice and it's devastating affect on the towns they came from. It's easy to no longer notice the memorials but they are everywhere and the scale of death is mindblowing - the losses incurred by the Pals Battalions of WW1 left communities deeply scarred.
The poppy fascists of today's Stoke know feck all about the above and the men of their town who died 100 years ago.
It's an absolute disgrace that Matic isn't wearing one and I'm demanding the club drop him. Please.
Remembrance day is a huge thing in Canada. I'm 39 now, and all through elementary and grade school, we were given poppies to wear, we had a minute of silence in a gymnasium assembly for remembrance day on the last day of school before the 11th, since I'm pretty sure the 11th was always a holiday from school.
I don't give it a second thought. I don't really get why people get hung up on it. It's a universal gesture to soldiers who died fighting. It isn't just Canadian soldiers, and the entire thing was started by Canada with John MaCrae with "In Flanders Fields". It's primarily a Commonwealth thing, UK/Canada/Australia/NZ. It's about people, not governments or politics. I don't care if you wear a poppy or not, but don't be a dick and whine about it. It's about remembering men and women, who died in service to their country, not about the politics or governments behind the decisions to send those young men and women into war zones where they lost their lives.
So if you don't remember 20 years ago, people wearing poppies, or a minutes silence, then wherever you're from has never been really serious about the whole thing. In Canada, wearing poppies and the minutes silence is ubiquitous with early Nov and the 11th in particular. From my perspective, it's nothing new. Get over it.
The premier league is more international than any other major professional league in the world both in terms of players and spectators. Its time to move on from jerking off the military at every major sports event. At least I can understand the Americans doing it as they are forever fighting one war or another and the leagues are still majority American players.
Not sure how it works in the UK obviously, here you get a possibility of an early pension (you can 'retire' after 15 years of service basically), the pay is also good and many service-men (I know a guy who's due to enlist for the special forces) aim to go high up the ladder to get even bigger cash. It's all profitable enough.
As for following the orders then sure, obviously, you've got still one decision to make of your own volition that can stop all that in advance. You can simply not enlist.
Callum Wilson didn't wear one as well
Keep politics out of football for feck's sake! No poppies.
There are certainly far more comfortable and simpler ways to make money. I'd say money as a motivation for joining the armed forces would be very far down the list, even for some of the better paid roles it's hardly lucrative. Sure, there are decent pensions and it can be comfortable enough for some, but the vast majority of those serving will not emerge from the military wealthy.
Many of those who serve (particularly in special forces roles) do later go on to work for private security companies etc, which is where the more lucrative salaries are at. On the whole though, army salaries are not very good when you consider the sacrifices (very hard to maintain relationships when deployed, all the obvious dangers of combat, stress etc) and I don't imagine most signing up are particularly greedy. Sure, some might later look to take advantage of their skills and earn more, but I highly doubt it's a major goal for most when signing up.
Sure, but then there are plenty who honestly feel like it's their only option in life. Then you get those who think of it as an adventure, those brought up in families who have military traditions etc .. they feel like they are doing their duty and that it's not up to them where they get sent. It's also a sad fact that armed forces are a necessity, and if everybody suddenly decided never to sign up it would be a big problem.
Explain to me how people wearing a poppy and respecting the fallen is 'jerking off the military'.
It's not meant to be a celebration of how great the armed forces are, merely a mark of respect for people who have died in conflict, and a way to raise funds and awareness for those who are still suffering.
The way people talk about it you'd think that before every game you had a marching band thumping out 'Rule Britannia' whilst an infantry column marches around the pitch with assault rifles. People just have a minutes silence, you get a few bugles playing a song about fallen soldiers, then you kick off. I don't get how this is in any way ultra inconvenient for anybody, especially since millions of people think that it's a worthy cause and are happy to pay their respects.
If you don't want to and don't believe in that cause, then don't buy a poppy .. that's cool by 99% of people. I don't get this attitude of 'I don't like it, so it must be removed from the sport!' though.
It's a shame that a period that should be about respectful remembrance is now such a pain in the collective backside because of how a few people have managed to conflate not wearing the poppy with disrespecting the war dead.
Exactly. But we live in a world where everyone is expected to have an extreme polarised opinion on everything, with all issues being split into good & bad, no room for a middle ground. Private v public sector, left v right, brexit, oil money in football (:-)).......doesn't matter what it is, you either agree or you are the enemy. Same has happened with the poppy.....great shame indeed
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Bit of a side note but that stat is pretty amazing. It can hardly be accurate? Only ten foreign players in the PL from countries that haven't been invaded by the UK at some point?
Perhaps an emblem could be worn by players every March 20th, the anniversary of the illegal US-UK invasion of Iraq in 2003, in honour of those one million+ men, women and children who innocently lost their lives as a result of this atrocity?
There's plenty of places to mourn the fallen, go to a veteran's cemetery if you are so inclined. Why put people in an awkward spot where they feel obligated to stand up or explain why they wouldn't want to wear a poppy because their homeland was bombed as part of the war or they are Irish and it brings back bad memories? People go to a football game on a Sunday to get away from the tediousness of life. The Munich or Hillsborough tributes, I like it because it has something to do with the clubs and the sport. A fallen manager or ex-player is fine to remember as well. The war has nothing to do with football or the league.
If we are counting back from 1400s, I guess only South America had countries not attacked/governed by the Empire at some point or other.
You can't say that football has nothing to do with wars, as hundreds of footballers fought in them and plenty died.
No the Spanish went there and wiped out whole civilisations instead.