People on this thread can't differentiate between celebrating second place and appreciating improvement.
Positive Thread (the old title was a joke)
- Thread starter SER19
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Honestly, for me, at the start of the season I still didn't think we'd challenge for the title. An improvement on 5th was hoped for and expected, so far so good. True reviews will obviously be made at the end of the season when every competition is taken into account.
Not bad. Not bad at all.
It's baffling that some people can't seperate 'most goals' and 'best attacking team'. News: it's not the same thing. You can score goals without being a very good attacking team or have an attacking mentality. Like Mourinhos United team. Like Contes Chelsea team.
After next weekend we could be 11/12 points clear of 5th place... Pretty good going really.
7th, 4th, 5th, 6th and now in 2nd. It boggles the mind how there's so much negativity coming from a large number of fans.
Fair enough it doesn't make a good watch at times but the key is the considerable improvement. Normally you get fed up with a manager when you feel he's reached his ceiling with a team, I can honestly say Jose is no where near his peak with this current team. Looking at the age of some of our key players and the obvious areas we have to improve on there is still so much to come in the future and I'm excited to watch this and know we will win trophies.
This is all with Pogba playing 8/18 games this season. But yeah lets moan because we don't play tiki taka and gegenpress.
Fair enough it doesn't make a good watch at times but the key is the considerable improvement. Normally you get fed up with a manager when you feel he's reached his ceiling with a team, I can honestly say Jose is no where near his peak with this current team. Looking at the age of some of our key players and the obvious areas we have to improve on there is still so much to come in the future and I'm excited to watch this and know we will win trophies.
This is all with Pogba playing 8/18 games this season. But yeah lets moan because we don't play tiki taka and gegenpress.
If we beat Leicester on Saturday next we will be 8 points better off than we were after 19 games last season. So it is an improvement, but we need to keep improving.
So you'd rather we be fighting for 4th than being 2nd?
Certainly not. We seize the progress this season and it's the best season so far post SAF. It's not a celebration it's about stop moaning and appreciating the work we have done so far as a huge step to our coming back to the top.
@SAFicus, as @Nucks alluded to... you need to chill the feck out fella
My personal opinion is that a full strength United vs. a full strength Chelsea could go either way, but I do think we're a slightly better side full strength.
I think we can confidently say we're better than Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and everyone else below Chelsea in the table for the first time since SAF left. But make no mistake, Chelsea are the current champions, Chelsea and United have played just the once the season, and Chelsea came out on top, they are also extremely close to us in the table, one bad result and they're level.
So whilst I like to think that we're slightly better than Chelsea, can I confidently say we're the second best side in the country? no, and that was the point I was making. I'll be waiting until the gap between us and Chelsea increases a fair bit and our performances improve again before making such an insanely rose-tinted claim.
Now if you want to support a club full of deluded sods who can't look at things objectively, RAWK would suit you down to the ground. Or sod it, grab a bible, join a cult.
All I've been looking for.
Could go either way, but you, as a United fan, believe United would come out on top whilst staying grounded due to the recent defeat which is understandable.
Usually on here the negativity is repulsive and any such 50/50 tends to lean in favour of the opposition.
If the fact that I feel sickened in the face of such pitiful pessimism means I should join a cult then perhaps the winning mentality, that is moaned about on here constantly, left most fans long before it left the team.
It's all about expectations. Being a United supporter for as long as I have I expect the best. Leave the celebrating of top 4 to clubs like Arsenal. We are here for one thing and one thing only. To win..
When first place is throwing clubs under their bulldozer, then being 2. isn't all that bad
Me having a winning mentality means feck all for United in fairness. And if you just read a little of my post history you'll see I tend to be one of the most optimistic fans on here, I'm just not deluded.
Never accused you personally.
There is too much pessimism on here though.
What?? is it not doom doom for us?
I thought we were 2nd by stroke of luck where all oppositions under-perform in all the matches we won and our luck will run out soon.
I thought we were 2nd by stroke of luck where all oppositions under-perform in all the matches we won and our luck will run out soon.
We now have a proper spine in terms of the team. Bially, Matic, Pogba, Lukaku. Fit in a playmaker and width and we can really challenge. What’s interesting is how everyone talks about how all great sides have explosive fullbacks that over lap with the wingers. Then they complain that our fullbacks are too defensive, which in essence is the perfect way to shut down those type of sides. As long as we get the right wingers we can really dominate (if the playmaker comes). For poorer sides we do need to push the fullbacks up further to create more pressure.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
You clearly have not watched Utd for that long then if you expect the best even with SAF we played shit house football with cleverly and darren gibson and you are now saying you want more when we have Pogba and Matic how long have you watched the club for 1999 by any chance 0r 2007?
Man Utd has rarely had the best players but we have the heart to make up for it all these ex players that pine for pep dont get that they would never have played for this club if pep was in charge.
There is huge difference between celebrating 2nd, 3rd or 4th loser trophy, and being realistic by acknowledging the team progress & another team having a freakish season. Ask yourself this, why what City is doing is called record/feat? Is it a norm? As people point out, for almost other season, our progress should have put us in title challenging position.
Tottenham have not been in challenging position at all despite the leaders having normal progress, yet still running away with the title.
We are much better this season than we were last season. So, I am more than happy with our progress from 6th position to 2nd now ( I see us finishing 2nd or 3rd this season). Many people do not realise that how difficult it is to turn the big club once it hits the downward slope. I am very content that we are going upwards.
If we perform well in cup competition, I think it would be an excellent season. Hoping we will have a good run in Champions league too.
Fair play to City that they have been excellent but I am more than happy with us to be 2nd at this stage of this season.
If we perform well in cup competition, I think it would be an excellent season. Hoping we will have a good run in Champions league too.
Fair play to City that they have been excellent but I am more than happy with us to be 2nd at this stage of this season.
Look guys, the main concern is not finishing second (hopefully). We could finish below second too. However, the main concern is that City are walking the league under Pep. It is not a fluke (a-la Leicester), and it is not a team that is likely to go down after a one-year show. They are very likely to extend Guardiola's contract and keep spending as much as they wish. Pep will continue to buy players he needs and those players are likely to fit in well and improve his team further. Can we say that Mou will most probably extend his contract with us? What is there to suggest that Mou will buy better players than Pep will do? Is there any evidence showing that the gap between us and City is closing and not increasing? There is progress in our team, but is it enough to catch up with that City side?
I would be more than happy if Spurs won the league this time, but it is fecking shitty under baldie that are cruising in what is supposed to be Mou's best season (2nd year with any team where he wins that league).
I would be more than happy if Spurs won the league this time, but it is fecking shitty under baldie that are cruising in what is supposed to be Mou's best season (2nd year with any team where he wins that league).
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City May continues to be a force the coming years, but there is no certain, if not to say I possible to replicate this kind of record next season. Strengthening on the top of power ain't easy. Even Barcelona back in the day had problem despite having stronger core. It is pure Fear monger to fantasize about dooming future base on City momentum. Bayern, Barcelona was much stronger yet, they didn't win everything every year.
Agreed. But Bayern walked their league with Pep. With city's resources he will buy the best of the lot not from just EPL but also the whole world. If you think that it will be easier for us to improve further compared to city, you are in for a surprise. I am waiting for an evolution from within Mou himself to beat Pep, as I doubt that there is any other factor where we are stronger than City currently.
What I meant when you're hitting great height in domestic league, you're expected more in CL(1), which even the more dominant teams can't certainly win it year in year out. The more you focus on different competitions, it's harder to maintain the consistency in the league. Bayern suffered from this on second half of seasons under Pep.
Edit: what I meant with City shifted their sight on CL is that Pep is doing project instead of building a dynasty like SAF. With SAF kicking L'pool off their perch was ultimate goal. That kept his fire going. Pep's project is to win the league then taking shot at CL. City may have great burst, but the hunger to catch up to L'pool & City wouldn't be possible within this project given how thin City history is.
City's resources are overstated. When you're buying world class players, you're to compete with PSG, and the historical attraction from the like of Barcelona & Real Madrid. PSG got Neymar by release clause from Barcelona, where Neymar won everything and just want way out so he can find way to Ballon D'or. This is very rare case. Clearly he still prefers better city if multiple offers coming in. MBappe was based in Paris and he took a less risky move by staying in France while also having high profile transfer under his name. If it were City playing the PSG role vs Madrid, then I doubt MBappe would have moved to City (2) The super stars who yet at the top, still prefers the like of Barcelona & Madrid, when the time is nigh where those clubs replace the old influential old guards.
City spent quite big fee and some of those players look great but there is every chance they may have their head turned if City can't win CL (see point 1). They can sign great potential players but it's hit & miss as even Barcelona at the tip of power can't even do so. Signing player ain't just outbid other bidders but also convince the players to join. You can only field 11 players and sub 3 players on. Once City team look settle, it would start look like less attractive for new comers as it's harder to break into. At this point you would want super stars to add the little factor edge which point 2 above kicks in. Pep's Bayern arguably have crazy quality depth yet, he couldn't amount them to much in CL while eventually the gap ain't as wide as it used to be in the league despite the other teams ain't pumping as much money as PL team can.
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Disagree on many points. Firstly, Pep is one of the best managers in the world, who has his teams play attacking football. Once City win the league with Pep, his players will gain confidence and fight even further. Also, for now it seems that City have a deeper and better squad than ours, so I doubt that they will suffer more than us while competing in all major competitions. So far, City managed to keep their best players and I do not see how that is going to change once they start winning cups. If anything, I can see more potential problems between our players and Mou than between the baldie and the noisy neighbours squad.As for Bayern case, I believe that Pep's players at City are more suitable to his preferred playing style than those that were at his disposal at Bayern. To sum it up. Hypothetically, anything can happen, but thus far Pep had an upper hand in La Liga, and is doing better in EPL. Also Pep has vast resources at his disposal and City will outspend us easily if they wish. In order to stop going in circles my point is that Mou needs to up his game and prove the whole world once again that he is a tactical genius and can beat Pep to start with. CL cup would be a luxury at this point of time. Need to win the league first.
Gaining confidence and fighting further have nothing with playing attacking football or having Pep. Even Barcelona, Bayern hit slump form and fan base gets spoiled at one point. City has better squad and depth has nothing to guarantee on maintaining this form next season when CL is the aim. If anything their style is taxing more in that you need your plan A to work all the time. Our style may not be easy on the eye, but historically speaking, defensive solid through conventional defensive system yield more successful in long term. Defenders getting older and slower with time can make better use of their experience is deeper defensive set up, while ball playing defenders with slower leg would declined much sharper and replacing them is hard. Getting one that's good is difficult to begin with. Replacing a top midfielder even harder. Top midfielders ain't moving often. Also they are in high demanded. Here we're talking about top midfielder who is tailor made for certain style. That's even harder. KDB has been great and City is lucky he is playing many games this season but he can't play all games which previous seasons shows with him out injured for period. David Silva is old.
You need your best players in CL, and that is no guarantee to win. Squad depth is to help keeping the quality play in the league between CL games, which as good as City depth, their second string can't be as dominant as their starter. They're having better luck to have their starters stay fit, which is no certainty in other seasons.
Already explain about spending. City spending more in sum, but the type of players can be hit & miss. The top ready made players, they're no better than us to obtain. Once City settled, without super stars. it's not attractive for players to join
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One issue we might have is that players will be drawn to City first because of getting to play exciting attacking football where they guaranteed to be winning things. Something that United were previously renowned for until 2013. City can match and outspend us with ease so unless we really start to get our act together we could be left behind. Second is not good enough for United - we may as well be fourth - it's only the CL qualification for the top 4 that gives significance to any place we finish after first.
You can't be serious? Chelsea stole bunches of our target since Abramovich took over despite it's clearly they took after Mourinho's approach. Even Hazard didn't give a shite about the manner Chelsea won CL and joined them while tweeting about joining European champions. Torres was one of our big target joining Bentinez who is capable to play shite on stick football.
And let's not sugar coat our style under SAF in latter years as if zombie football thread never exists.
I see things quite simply.
After SAF we were in the Stone Age. No preparation, no vision, not an inkling of an idea. Moyes happened. LVG happened.
It can’t be understated how far we’ve come along since then and it’s easy to lose perspective which I’m guilty of myself.
Before Mou our team was full of pussies who turned up when they wanted. He dealt with the Rooney problem. Recruited brilliantly in the transfer market. Accumulated a PL points tally that would have us top in most of the seasons gone by. Scored plenty of goals, comfortably topped the CL group. I’d have given blood sacrifice to Satan himself if this was offered to me in the November/December we went in with high hopes only for LVG to lay a big turd on it.
There’s obviously glaring deficiencies, yet we are we where are. I suspect there’s a lot more to come so let’s just concentrate on us and not the freak season City are having.
After SAF we were in the Stone Age. No preparation, no vision, not an inkling of an idea. Moyes happened. LVG happened.
It can’t be understated how far we’ve come along since then and it’s easy to lose perspective which I’m guilty of myself.
Before Mou our team was full of pussies who turned up when they wanted. He dealt with the Rooney problem. Recruited brilliantly in the transfer market. Accumulated a PL points tally that would have us top in most of the seasons gone by. Scored plenty of goals, comfortably topped the CL group. I’d have given blood sacrifice to Satan himself if this was offered to me in the November/December we went in with high hopes only for LVG to lay a big turd on it.
There’s obviously glaring deficiencies, yet we are we where are. I suspect there’s a lot more to come so let’s just concentrate on us and not the freak season City are having.
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Going in circles. Agree to disagree and move on.
Well up until 2013 we were still top dog - something that is illustrated by being able to sign Robin Van Persie from Arsenal as he wanted to win the league. It was still the perception that we were the fastest track to success among players - something that we genuinely cannot say at the moment.
That has nothing to do with style of play which you claimed in your previous post. Arsenal was playing better on eye football. RVP joined us to win the league when clearly at times he was feeding on scraps with our zombie football. We're losing targets left &a right to pragmatic Chelsea when they look like a force. City before winning their first PL took Arsenal apart despite Arsenal was within a decade a top club with beautiful football brand.
Sure. Agree to disagree. Cheers.
The narrative of ‘would be top, if not for city’, is over 50% fiction. Or just under 50% fact depending on your optimism/pessimism ratio.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42403911
Ie in 25 years of the PL, United would be top 12 times with their current points total. Pretty good ratio though.
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I find it sad that a news site has to have a ‘facts’ section these days, to repudiate the ironically ‘real’ fake news peddled.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42403911
Ie in 25 years of the PL, United would be top 12 times with their current points total. Pretty good ratio though.
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I find it sad that a news site has to have a ‘facts’ section these days, to repudiate the ironically ‘real’ fake news peddled.
Having great time going through United forum trying providing fact? Realize not all top of table by this time would win the league? So what people are saying is not topping the table, but within challenging position. Added those late coming champions, you have over 50% easily without any type of wumming level. This season is freakish in that City is clearly running away with the title despite respective point tally we earned ourselves.
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The old "are you a glory hunter" argument. I expect better from a fellow United supporter. As for the players you mention, they were merely squad players. And when they were on (or in the Djemba Djemba years) I expected more then too. That's not a bad thing. Yes, I see improvement in the squad, but I'm not here to celebrate improvement. I'm here to celebrate trophies and anything other than challenging for them is unacceptable. If we go on to get 90 points this year and City still wins the league then all I can do is tip my hat to them. But I'm not about to scream "yay we're 2nd place" and I doubt Mourinho will either...
I don't understand how, after the hundreds of posts in this thread, any person can try to claim that a single member is screaming "yay we're in second place". Is it just deliberately posting whatever you like without any regard for what posters have said? Genuinely asking you to explain that last sentence.
People go on about Jose parking the bus (someone posted an alternate professions for managers meme on my Facebook calling him a bus driver), but the only team who've scored more goals than us in the league is City.