Mr.Ridiculous__
The name says it all
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2014
- Messages
- 1,015
People on this thread can't differentiate between celebrating second place and appreciating improvement.
Is this the same as people saying that no way in hell Pep would be able to come here and dominate like he did at Bayern and Barca?
You know...PL is so much tougher...no easy games...
So you'd rather we be fighting for 4th than being 2nd?Pool fans have a more exciting season then us. They battle for Top4, they play super duper dortmund football. If their attacking click, they can be scary even for the giants in the CL. They hope for a more stable top 4 next season and can achieve that.
Certainly not. We seize the progress this season and it's the best season so far post SAF. It's not a celebration it's about stop moaning and appreciating the work we have done so far as a huge step to our coming back to the top.In the words of the immortal Ricky Bobby, "If you're not first, you're last". We are Manchester United. Nothing other than winning silverware is worth a celebration...
Do you believe Chelsea with a full strength 11 would beat our full strength 11 tomorrow?
If you do then you're either entirely wrong (remains to be seen) or just wrong to call yourself a United supporter.
Sick of the disinterested objectivity in here. Allow yourself to be a little subjective and get behind your team! Or are cold hard facts all that matter in football now?
It certainly wasn't facts that made us fall in love with the game or our respective clubs.
So long as there is a solid argument to be made that we are the better side we as united fans should be making it. If you want to be a neutral own and declare it.
Hold up there kiddo.
Being a supporter of something, doesn't mean blind faith or obedience, this isn't 1931, and this isn't Germany. Supporting something, means being honest about something. Whether or not his opinion on Chelsea being a stronger team right now is accurate or not, the only thing a person or thing can expect from a support, is honesty. That is his honest opinion. The last thing a person or thing needs is sycophants, like yourself.
The only way to improve, is to be honest with yourself, to receive honest opinions that hopefully are accurate assessments. Saying "We're better, because reasons!!!!!!!" Isn't useful, and its what led us into this very situation that the club has been in since SAF retired.
@SAFicus, as @Nucks alluded to... you need to chill the feck out fellaIf I wanted an honest debate I would join a general football forum.
I did not. I joined a United forum, because for something as insignificant as football I want to speak to people who like the same team as me. Who will be hapoy and sad with me based on that team.
Clearly this is not a United forum. It's Bluemoon #2.
The fact that you can compare following a football team and wanting to focus on that team and give it the benefit of the doubt to nazi Germany is ridiculous.
I am not claiming that United are better than City or anything so outrageous thay nobody in their right mind could argue. I am claiming they are better, right now, than Chelsea. That is not too unreasonable a claim and should be the rule on a forum purportedly in favour of United, not the exception.
I don't come on here to fight my team's case against fans of other clubs. I come on to talk to other fans who favour United, unfortunately I struggle to find any such individuals these days...
All I've been looking for.
It's all about expectations. Being a United supporter for as long as I have I expect the best. Leave the celebrating of top 4 to clubs like Arsenal. We are here for one thing and one thing only. To win..That's an extremely narrow way of looking at life and football.
Me having a winning mentality means feck all for United in fairness. And if you just read a little of my post history you'll see I tend to be one of the most optimistic fans on here, I'm just not deluded.If the fact that I feel sickened in the face of such pitiful pessimism means I should join a cult then perhaps the winning mentality, that is moaned about on here constantly, left most fans long before it left the team.
Never accused you personally.Me having a winning mentality means feck all for United in fairness. And if you just read a little of my post history you'll see I tend to be one of the most optimistic fans on here, I'm just not deluded.
We now have a proper spine in terms of the team. Bially, Matic, Pogba, Lukaku. Fit in a playmaker and width and we can really challenge. What’s interesting is how everyone talks about how all great sides have explosive fullbacks that over lap with the wingers. Then they complain that our fullbacks are too defensive, which in essence is the perfect way to shut down those type of sides. As long as we get the right wingers we can really dominate (if the playmaker comes). For poorer sides we do need to push the fullbacks up further to create more pressure.Each to their own but my attitude to winning games is to go on to potentially win something at the end of it. Sorry but we are so far away from City and some of the other teams in Europe, it's untrue. Can anyone really argue that yet again, we still need 4-5 world class signings? If we've progressed that much, we are we still in the same position? Id argue it's as much about the lack of progress by other teams, as much it's to do with anything else....
You clearly have not watched Utd for that long then if you expect the best even with SAF we played shit house football with cleverly and darren gibson and you are now saying you want more when we have Pogba and Matic how long have you watched the club for 1999 by any chance 0r 2007?It's all about expectations. Being a United supporter for as long as I have I expect the best. Leave the celebrating of top 4 to clubs like Arsenal. We are here for one thing and one thing only. To win..
There is huge difference between celebrating 2nd, 3rd or 4th loser trophy, and being realistic by acknowledging the team progress & another team having a freakish season. Ask yourself this, why what City is doing is called record/feat? Is it a norm? As people point out, for almost other season, our progress should have put us in title challenging position.I guess being second is enough for some people, even though many of us criticised Spurs fans for being happy with their recent league finishes...
City May continues to be a force the coming years, but there is no certain, if not to say I possible to replicate this kind of record next season. Strengthening on the top of power ain't easy. Even Barcelona back in the day had problem despite having stronger core. It is pure Fear monger to fantasize about dooming future base on City momentum. Bayern, Barcelona was much stronger yet, they didn't win everything every year.Look guys, the main concern is not finishing second (hopefully). We could finish below second too. However, the main concern is that City are walking the league under Pep. It is not a fluke (a-la Leicester), and it is not a team that is likely to go down after a one-year show. They are very likely to extend Guardiola's contract and keep spending as much as they wish. Pep will continue to buy players he needs and those players are likely to fit in well and improve his team further. Can we say that Mou will most probably extend his contract with us? What is there to suggest that Mou will buy better players than Pep will do? Is there any evidence showing that the gap between us and City is closing and not increasing? There is progress in our team, but is it enough to catch up with that City side?
I would be more than happy if Spurs won the league this time, but it is fecking shitty under baldie that are cruising in what is supposed to be Mou's best season (2nd year with any team where he wins that league).
Agreed. But Bayern walked their league with Pep. With city's resources he will buy the best of the lot not from just EPL but also the whole world. If you think that it will be easier for us to improve further compared to city, you are in for a surprise. I am waiting for an evolution from within Mou himself to beat Pep, as I doubt that there is any other factor where we are stronger than City currently.City May continues to be a force the coming years, but there is no certain, if not to say I possible to replicate this kind of record next season. Strengthening on the top of power ain't easy. Even Barcelona back in the day had problem despite having stronger core. It is pure Fear monger to fantasize about dooming future base on City momentum. Bayern, Barcelona was much stronger yet, they didn't win everything every year.
What I meant when you're hitting great height in domestic league, you're expected more in CL(1), which even the more dominant teams can't certainly win it year in year out. The more you focus on different competitions, it's harder to maintain the consistency in the league. Bayern suffered from this on second half of seasons under Pep.Agreed. But Bayern walked their league with Pep. With city's resources he will buy the best of the lot not from just EPL but also the whole world. If you think that it will be easier for us to improve further compared to city, you are in for a surprise. I am waiting for an evolution from within Mou himself to beat Pep, as I doubt that there is any other factor where we are stronger than City currently.
Disagree on many points. Firstly, Pep is one of the best managers in the world, who has his teams play attacking football. Once City win the league with Pep, his players will gain confidence and fight even further. Also, for now it seems that City have a deeper and better squad than ours, so I doubt that they will suffer more than us while competing in all major competitions. So far, City managed to keep their best players and I do not see how that is going to change once they start winning cups. If anything, I can see more potential problems between our players and Mou than between the baldie and the noisy neighbours squad.As for Bayern case, I believe that Pep's players at City are more suitable to his preferred playing style than those that were at his disposal at Bayern. To sum it up. Hypothetically, anything can happen, but thus far Pep had an upper hand in La Liga, and is doing better in EPL. Also Pep has vast resources at his disposal and City will outspend us easily if they wish. In order to stop going in circles my point is that Mou needs to up his game and prove the whole world once again that he is a tactical genius and can beat Pep to start with. CL cup would be a luxury at this point of time. Need to win the league first.What I meant when you're hitting great height in domestic league, you're expected more in CL(1), which even the more dominant teams can't certainly win it year in year out. The more you focus on different competitions, it's harder to maintain the consistency in the league. Bayern suffered from this on second half of seasons under Pep.
Edit: what I meant with City shifted their sight on CL is that Pep is doing project instead of building a dynasty like SAF. With SAF kicking L'pool off their perch was ultimate goal. That kept his fire going. Pep's project is to win the league then taking shot at CL. City may have great burst, but the hunger to catch up to L'pool & City wouldn't be possible within this project given how thin City history is.
City's resources are overstated. When you're buying world class players, you're to compete with PSG, and the historical attraction from the like of Barcelona & Real Madrid. PSG got Neymar by release clause from Barcelona, where Neymar won everything and just want way out so he can find way to Ballon D'or. This is very rare case. Clearly he still prefers better city if multiple offers coming in. MBappe was based in Paris and he took a less risky move by staying in France while also having high profile transfer under his name. If it were City playing the PSG role vs Madrid, then I doubt MBappe would have moved to City (2) The super stars who yet at the top, still prefers the like of Barcelona & Madrid, when the time is nigh where those clubs replace the old influential old guards.
City spent quite big fee and some of those players look great but there is every chance they may have their head turned if City can't win CL (see point 1). They can sign great potential players but it's hit & miss as even Barcelona at the tip of power can't even do so. Signing player ain't just outbid other bidders but also convince the players to join. You can only field 11 players and sub 3 players on. Once City team look settle, it would start look like less attractive for new comers as it's harder to break into. At this point you would want super stars to add the little factor edge which point 2 above kicks in. Pep's Bayern arguably have crazy quality depth yet, he couldn't amount them to much in CL while eventually the gap ain't as wide as it used to be in the league despite the other teams ain't pumping as much money as PL team can.
Gaining confidence and fighting further have nothing with playing attacking football or having Pep. Even Barcelona, Bayern hit slump form and fan base gets spoiled at one point. City has better squad and depth has nothing to guarantee on maintaining this form next season when CL is the aim. If anything their style is taxing more in that you need your plan A to work all the time. Our style may not be easy on the eye, but historically speaking, defensive solid through conventional defensive system yield more successful in long term. Defenders getting older and slower with time can make better use of their experience is deeper defensive set up, while ball playing defenders with slower leg would declined much sharper and replacing them is hard. Getting one that's good is difficult to begin with. Replacing a top midfielder even harder. Top midfielders ain't moving often. Also they are in high demanded. Here we're talking about top midfielder who is tailor made for certain style. That's even harder. KDB has been great and City is lucky he is playing many games this season but he can't play all games which previous seasons shows with him out injured for period. David Silva is old.Disagree on many points. Firstly, Pep is one of the best managers in the world, who has his teams play attacking football. Once City win the league with Pep, his players will gain confidence and fight even further. Also, for now it seems that City have a deeper and better squad than ours, so I doubt that they will suffer more than us while competing in all major competitions. So far, City managed to keep their best players and I do not see how that is going to change once they start winning cups. If anything, I can see more potential problems between our players and Mou than between the baldie and the noisy neighbours squad.As for Bayern case, I believe that Pep's players at City are more suitable to his preferred playing style than those that were at his disposal at Bayern. To sum it up. Hypothetically, anything can happen, but thus far Pep had an upper hand in La Liga, and is doing better in EPL. Also Pep has vast resources at his disposal and City will outspend us easily if they wish. In order to stop going in circles my point is that Mou needs to up his game and prove the whole world once again that he is a tactical genius and can match Pep.
You can't be serious? Chelsea stole bunches of our target since Abramovich took over despite it's clearly they took after Mourinho's approach. Even Hazard didn't give a shite about the manner Chelsea won CL and joined them while tweeting about joining European champions. Torres was one of our big target joining Bentinez who is capable to play shite on stick football.One issue we might have is that players will be drawn to City first because of getting to play exciting attacking football where they guaranteed to be winning things. Something that United were previously renowned for until 2013. City can match and outspend us with ease so unless we really start to get our act together we could be left behind. Second is not good enough for United - we may as well be fourth - it's only the CL qualification for the top 4 that gives significance to any place we finish after first.
Going in circles. Agree to disagree and move on.Gaining confidence and fighting further have nothing with playing attacking football or having Pep. Even Barcelona, Bayern hit slump form and fan base gets spoiled at one point. City has better squad and depth has nothing to guarantee on maintaining this form next season when CL is the aim. If anything their style is taxing more in that you need your plan A to work all the time. Our style may not be easy on the eye, but historically speaking, defensive solid through conventional defensive system yield more successful in long term. Defenders getting older and slower with time can make better use of their experience is deeper defensive set up, while ball playing defenders with slower leg would declined much sharper and replacing them is hard. Getting one that's good is difficult to begin with. Replacing a top midfielder even harder. Top midfielders ain't moving often. Also they are in high demanded. Here we're talking about top midfielder who is tailor made for certain style. That's even harder. KDB has been great and City is lucky he is playing many games this season but he can't play all games which previous seasons shows with him out injured for period. David Silva is old.
You need your best players in CL, and that is no guarantee to win. Squad depth is to help keeping the quality play in the league between CL games, which as good as City depth, their second string can't be as dominant as their starter. They're having better luck to have their starters stay fit, which is no certainty in other seasons.
Already explain about spending. City spending more in sum, but the type of players can be hit & miss. The top ready made players, they're no better than us to obtain. Once City settled, without super stars. it's not attractive for players to join
Well up until 2013 we were still top dog - something that is illustrated by being able to sign Robin Van Persie from Arsenal as he wanted to win the league. It was still the perception that we were the fastest track to success among players - something that we genuinely cannot say at the moment.You can't be serious? Chelsea stole bunches of our target since Abramovich took over despite it's clearly they took after Mourinho's approach. Even Hazard didn't give a shite about the manner Chelsea won CL and joined them while tweeting about joining European champions. Torres was one of our big target joining Bentinez who is capable to play shite on stick football.
And let's not sugar coat our style under SAF in latter years as if zombie football thread never exists.
That has nothing to do with style of play which you claimed in your previous post. Arsenal was playing better on eye football. RVP joined us to win the league when clearly at times he was feeding on scraps with our zombie football. We're losing targets left &a right to pragmatic Chelsea when they look like a force. City before winning their first PL took Arsenal apart despite Arsenal was within a decade a top club with beautiful football brand.Well up until 2013 we were still top dog - something that is illustrated by being able to sign Robin Van Persie from Arsenal as he wanted to win the league. It was still the perception that we were the fastest track to success among players - something that we genuinely cannot say at the moment.
Sure. Agree to disagree. Cheers.Going in circles. Agree to disagree and move on.
The narrative of ‘would be top, if not for city’, is over 50% fiction. Or just under 50% fact depending on your optimism/pessimism ratio.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42403911
Ie in 25 years of the PL, United would be top 12 times with their current points total. Pretty good ratio though.
OT:
I find it sad that a news site has to have a ‘facts’ section these days, to repudiate the ironically ‘real’ fake news peddled.
I’m off by 1 season, sue meAccumulated a PL points tally that would have us top in most of the seasons gone by.
Having great time going through United forum trying providing fact? Realize not all top of table by this time would win the league? So what people are saying is not topping the table, but within challenging position. Added those late coming champions, you have over 50% easily without any type of wumming level. This season is freakish in that City is clearly running away with the title despite respective point tally we earned ourselves.The narrative of ‘would be top, if not for city’, is over 50% fiction. Or just under 50% fact depending on your optimism/pessimism ratio.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42403911
Ie in 25 years of the PL, United would be top 12 times with their current points total. Pretty good ratio though.
OT:
I find it sad that a news site has to have a ‘facts’ section these days, to repudiate the ironically ‘real’ fake news peddled.
The old "are you a glory hunter" argument. I expect better from a fellow United supporter. As for the players you mention, they were merely squad players. And when they were on (or in the Djemba Djemba years) I expected more then too. That's not a bad thing. Yes, I see improvement in the squad, but I'm not here to celebrate improvement. I'm here to celebrate trophies and anything other than challenging for them is unacceptable. If we go on to get 90 points this year and City still wins the league then all I can do is tip my hat to them. But I'm not about to scream "yay we're 2nd place" and I doubt Mourinho will either...You clearly have not watched Utd for that long then if you expect the best even with SAF we played shit house football with cleverly and darren gibson and you are now saying you want more when we have Pogba and Matic how long have you watched the club for 1999 by any chance 0r 2007?
Man Utd has rarely had the best players but we have the heart to make up for it all these ex players that pine for pep dont get that they would never have played for this club if pep was in charge.
I don't understand how, after the hundreds of posts in this thread, any person can try to claim that a single member is screaming "yay we're in second place". Is it just deliberately posting whatever you like without any regard for what posters have said? Genuinely asking you to explain that last sentence.The old "are you a glory hunter" argument. I expect better from a fellow United supporter. As for the players you mention, they were merely squad players. And when they were on (or in the Djemba Djemba years) I expected more then too. That's not a bad thing. Yes, I see improvement in the squad, but I'm not here to celebrate improvement. I'm here to celebrate trophies and anything other than challenging for them is unacceptable. If we go on to get 90 points this year and City still wins the league then all I can do is tip my hat to them. But I'm not about to scream "yay we're 2nd place" and I doubt Mourinho will either...