Protests following the killing of George Floyd

MackRobinson said:
So everyone should comply with a tax-payer funded police officer giving illegal orders, thereby normalizing an illegal behavior? This is absurd reasoning and plain wrong.


Maybe the same way they approach dangerous situations in affluent neighborhoods? Secondly, I literally pointed you to the most comprehensive literature on the subject. It's your decision to read it or not.


Again see the above. If you asking for a surface level blog post or youtube video I can't help you b/c that isn't normally where I get my sources from. I wish I had the time to pull up all of the sources in the books I've read but I don't. But I pointed you in the right direction if you actually care enough.


Seems somewhat biased? Because you may not agree with her politics? Look at her credentials and actually read her book. I'm not even sure what points you are trying to make without even reading the literature. Mindboggling the lengths people go to hold on to preconceived beliefs.
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OK.. If that's what you're reading me saying, that's fine. Carry on.

I don't think you've thought this point through. I really wish the police in America could be unarmed. I wish they were all MMA fighters. I wish there was no uncertainty in interactions between humans. You pointed me in a direction? I must have misse the link. I'm not going on google to find the information you claim support your opinion. You do that.

See above. And if it's identity politics stuff ala your source Stevenson, please don't ask me to look it up. There's too little time and too much to read. You're claiming knowledge, yet can't be bothered to find a single half decent article to support your claim?

The irony
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
I believe there is data that supports the notion that more whites Americans are killed in police interactions than blacks, but that's an overall number. My understanding is that on a per capita basis it swings negatively in favour of African Americans.
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This is correct. I was looking at the data at the weekend - it shows that police in the US kill about 1,100 people per year through shootings and other uses of force. Of these 1,100, approximately 24% are black, despite the fact that black people only constitute 13% of the total US population.

Breaking it down further, a black man in the US is about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by the police, compared to a white man. A black woman is 1.4 times more likely to be killed by the police, compared to a white woman. Native American men and women are also more likely to be killed by the police, compared to white men and women.
 
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It is reported in the SUN that the Manchester Guardian Newspaper (forerunner of the current Guardian Newspaper ) was found by John Edward Taylor who made his profits from a plantation that used slaves? The Sun also reported that in 1844 the paper took a stance against Lincoln on the slavery issue. If it is true its dynamite for the Guardian?

(Source Alexander Brown; SUN 15th June 2020 updated 16th June 2020)
 
e.cantona said:
OK.. If that's what you're reading me saying, that's fine. Carry on.

I don't think you've thought this point through. I really wish the police in America could be unarmed. I wish they were all MMA fighters. I wish there was no uncertainty in interactions between humans. You pointed me in a direction? I must have misse the link. I'm not going on google to find the information you claim support your opinion. You do that.
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Great straw man. I never said unarm the police. What I said it is absurd to expect people to comply with unlawgul/illegal instructions from the police. That's just de facto police state. I was talking about the books. As for not having to comply with police this is common knowledge. Again why argue a position if you don't want to fact check yourself? Since your carpal tunnel is stopping from doing a basic Google search here: (assuming you are talking about your original claim which I'm still not sure of)
Unless a police officer has “probable cause” to make an arrest, “reasonable suspicion” to conduct a “stop and frisk,” or a warrant, a person generally has the legal right to walk away from the officer.
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https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/stopping-questioning-people-street.html

Do I have to answer questions asked by law enforcement officers?

No. You have the constitutional right to remain silent. In general, you do not have to talk to law enforcement officers (or anyone else), even if you do not feel free to walk away from the officer, you are arrested, or you are in jail. You cannot be punished for refusing to answer a question. It is a good idea to talk to a lawyer before agreeing to answer questions. In general, only a judge can order you to answer questions.
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https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encountering-law-enforcement-questioning/

You have the right to remain silent. If you wish to exercise that right, say so out loud. In some states, you have to say your name. • You have the right to refuse to a search of yourself, your car, or your home. • If you are not under arrest, you have a right to calmly leave. • If you are arrested, you have the right to a lawyer. Ask for one immediately.
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https://www.naacp.org/wp-content/up...iling_Know_Your_Rights_Supplement_6-12-12.pdf

So no, you do not have to 100% comply. Next time try backing up your own statements.

For the record, this study says only 83% of them are armed and it was posted earlier in the thread.

e.cantona said:
See above. And if it's identity politics stuff ala your source Stevenson, please don't ask me to look it up. There's too little time and too much to read. You're claiming knowledge, yet can't be bothered to find a single half decent article to support your claim?
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Stevenson's book has nothing to do with identity politics. The fact you even bring up identity politics (literally nothing to do with the subject matter) tells me all I need to know. I gave you two books on the subject. Again 1) I don't even understand what it is you're arguing I don't usually rely on blog posts and youtube videos.

This scholarly essay outlines some of the issues with policing in the context of black inner-city communities in the US. It's not as comprehensive as Michelle Alexander's work but much of it overlaps. Hopefully, the length isn't too long for you.
 
MackRobinson said:
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You're a bit of a condescending *, aren't you?

I'm just wondering. Really. When I write what I write, do you see me saying that racism is a good thing?

Strawmanning? Oh the irony.. I haven't said you said anything. I tried to explain to you my position on this, over three or four replies. And still you're talking about it not being the law. I agree. It's not law. Or to be honest, I don't know what's law on this matter in the US. I'm giving you my opinion. You should comply when interacting with the police. If the police are harassing you, you should still avoid getting killed. The time to complain really isn't in the face of a harassing armed person. I could go on and explain what I ment at length, but I am most likely wasting my time.

comply

verb

  1. act in accordance with a wish or command.

e.cantona said:
I don't understand what you're trying to say here, the 17% unarmed killed by police were all unjust?
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I didn't have time to read his book. Google his Ted talk. The other one, Alexander, google her latest nytimes article. Didn't have time to read her book either.

As for your scholarly essay, "We intend this essay as a statement of a point of view. We offer some new information and refer to evidence from other sources, and also point to the need for additional evidence." Based on your other sources, I choose to stop at that.
 
e.cantona said:
You're a bit of a condescending *, aren't you?
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Hi Pot. My name is Kettle.

e.cantona said:
I'm just wondering. Really. When I write what I write, do you see me saying that racism is a good thing?
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You tell me. Like I've said in the last two posts I'm not even sure what you are arguing.

e.cantona said:
Strawmanning? Oh the irony.. I haven't said you said anything. I tried to explain to you my position on this, over three or four replies. And still you're talking about it not being the law. I agree. It's not law. Or to be honest, I don't know what's law on this matter in the US. I'm giving you my opinion. You should comply when interacting with the police. If the police are harassing you, you should still avoid getting killed. The time to complain really isn't in the face of a harassing armed person. I could go on and explain what I ment at length, but I am most likely wasting my time.

comply

verb

  1. act in accordance with a wish or command.
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So then why bring up police being unarmed? They can be armed with dildos for all I care but it has nothing to do with the legality of complying. I know what you said and I addressed it. Your reasoning is the exact same as the right-wingers in the US and (like I said) this reasoning essentially gives the police more power they are allowed. Police are taxpayer-funded, not some criminals who have you at gunpoint. Surely you can tell the difference.

I didn't have time to read his book. Google his Ted talk. The other one, Alexander, google her latest nytimes article. Didn't have time to read her book either.
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You could have read the link I posted about his Equal Justice Initiative (which also summarizes his book and work). It has nothing to do with identity politics. As for Alexander's article, I read it last week. That's her political position and it's irrelevant in discussing her published, peer-reviewed, book on the mass incarceration of minorities and militarization of police departments. One has the details you clamored for, the other does not.

As for your scholarly essay, "We intend this essay as a statement of a point of view. We offer some new information and refer to evidence from other sources, and also point to the need for additional evidence." Based on your other sources,
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I never said it wasn't a point of view, but it also contains 81 citations (which is what makes it scholarly). It's certainly not two smart-sounding guys on Youtube mouthing off without any supporting evidence.

I choose to stop at that.
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Should have done that a few pages ago.
 
Every player on the pitch as well as the officials just took a knee as the whistle was blown to start the game in Villa vs Sheffield Utd. Brilliant stuff.
 
Rado_N said:
Every player on the pitch as well as the officials just took a knee as the whistle was blown to start the game in Villa vs Sheffield Utd. Brilliant stuff.
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And here in the US we have people threatening to stop following sports for kneeling or removing the Confederate flag.

Gods help us, we have such a long road ahead...
 
Organic Potatoes said:
And here in the US we have people threatening to stop following sports for kneeling or removing the Confederate flag.

Gods help us, we have such a long road ahead...
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Sad state of affairs.

The number of celebs I’ve seen posting social media comments in support of BLM and being met with countless “you’ve just lost a fan” messages is depressing.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
And here in the US we have people threatening to stop following sports for kneeling or removing the Confederate flag.

Gods help us, we have such a long road ahead...
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We have people threatening the same here too. For example West Brom handled this arsehole perfectly.

7895b551-0a70-4d4c-a963-463f00188b92
 


She’s mad-mad.

Wonder why she’s taping this from the comfort of her sofa instead of heading out into the streets to tackle crime. . .
 
Guardian said:
California police investigate nooses found hanging on trees as hate crime
Discovery of nooses in Oakland comes amid investigations into the hanging deaths of two black men in southern California
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Fortitude said:
It's like every depiction of backward folk in a rural backward town/city there's ever been in TV/movies bunched up and put into 50 seconds of footage.
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I see lots of Americans who look just like that. She was very brave indeed and the cop was a coward for not protecting her.
 
Grinner said:
I see lots of Americans who look just like that. She was very brave indeed and the cop was a coward for not protecting her.
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I was wondering what the consequences will be for her and her family if she's local.

Incredibly brave of her given she probably foresaw the outcome before she'd even left her house that day.
 
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