I’m not insulting you, I’m just making light of your dubious intelligence on the matter. I posit that things aren’t that much better, perhaps only superficially. The fact that you bring up that there was a black president & that speaks for the advancement only shows your shallowness on the matter. I just don’t want your flawed logic to continue, that’s why I made the procreation statement. And, to levy criticism on someone stating that they are shifting the goal posts only heightens your ignorance. It’s more simple to try to back-engineer a defense after being called out on a position. No worries, though, it’s obvious with whom I am arguing.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
- Start date
calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
No, a quick check of his Twitter page somewhat disqualifies him as a credible source. I love the ‘first aid bag’ non sequitur tossed in for absolution. No quaint first aid kit is gonna help someone he shot point blank in the head.Also this Coudery bloke doesn't seem all that trustworthy as a source
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calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
What will be interesting is when the studies of how aligned the police are with the proud boys / bugaloo boys / right wing militias come out. It’s patently obvious now how intertwined they are.
A solid bet - right now Joe Arpaio is masturbating with gleeful intensity while watching this clip on a continual loop.
edit - apparently this clip is from 2018, but it is no less shameful & fully encapsulates the mindset of most policw.
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Mastadon
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Post #7767. My position was correct.He's already been charged with first degree murder a day later. There's video evidence of him admitting it doing it, multiple witnesses. What more do you want, you fecking imbecile? Stand right next to him and cheer him on, while he's doing it?!
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villain
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Well in America specifically they began as slave patrols & they've always been aligned with right wing militias, especially after slavery was abolished. They became a way to continue to catch & enslave black people, and get them to work for free, or kill black people with little/no punishment. Nothing has changed, and yet people wonder why black people are angry & restless.What will be interesting is when the studies of how aligned the police are with the proud boys / bugaloo boys / right wing militias come out. It’s patently obvious now how intertwined they are.
A solid bet - right now Joe Arpaio is masturbating with gleeful intensity while watching this clip on a continual loop.
calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
Arpaio was born just a few years too late. He would have rejoiced being in such patrols.Well in America specifically they began as slave patrols & they've always been aligned with right wing militias, especially after slavery was abolished. They became a way to continue to catch & enslave black people, and get them to work for free, or kill black people with little/no punishment. Nothing has changed, and yet people wonder why black people are angry & restless.
psychdelicblues
Full Member
Just a continuation of the new jim crow
Longer version.....even worse.
Continuation of the new jim crow.
Longer version.....even worse.
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calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
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Incel wears more eyeliner than his mom (picture of him in his cute little youth SS gear & his proud momma a little ways down the replies).
Dr. Dwayne
Self proclaimed tagline king.
Oooof. I was wondering how he got out of the house with a rifle. Seems he got a ride with mom.
calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
Would love to see her get charged & arrested also. Wonder what the Illinois / Wisconsin laws are for a parent of a murdering youth who obtains a weapon illegally?Oooof. I was wondering how he got out of the house with a rifle. Seems he got a ride with mom.
WI_Red
Redcafes Most Rested
Based on how WI people feel about IL people I am going to assume she's up for the chair.Would love to see her get charged & arrested also. Wonder what the Illinois / Wisconsin laws are for a parent of a murdering youth who obtains a weapon illegally?
MrMarcello
In a well-ordered universe...
I'm not sure this tone helps, except if you're sure @Mastadon is discussing in bad faith.I’m not insulting you, I’m just making light of your dubious intelligence on the matter. I posit that things aren’t that much better, perhaps only superficially. The fact that you bring up that there was a black president & that speaks for the advancement only shows your shallowness on the matter. I just don’t want your flawed logic to continue, that’s why I made the procreation statement. And, to levy criticism on someone stating that they are shifting the goal posts only heightens your ignorance. It’s more simple to try to back-engineer a defense after being called out on a position. No worries, though, it’s obvious with whom I am arguing.
In any case, I agree that @Mastadon seems to severely underestimate the current situation of Black people in the US. Yes, things have improved since the 1950s, but while that's good (obviously), they are still nowhere near where they should be. Consequently, Black people have no reason to be complacent, let alone grateful (I know that wasn't said, but just to be clear), and plenty to be frustrated and angry about.
One example: redlining and housing laws mean that Black people for the longest time could not move out of their areas and could not get mortgages. As a result, many of them lived, and still live, in impoverished neighbourhoods without the means to do something about it. (Since they don't own the houses and can't build up wealth.) Further, since schools are paid through local taxes and people are poor in these areas, education is poor. Effectively, this creates a poverty loop.
Under Obama, finally a law was introduced that was supposed to create more social diversity in housing and thus help people stuck in these situations. That was nice, but came decades after the 50s/60s, when these previous practices became illegal and remedying measures should have been taken. Further, this law was annulled by Trump just a few weeks ago. To add insult to injury, the motivation was clearly racist: his comments that he would protect suburban home owners from increased criminality and property devaluation is obvious (to everyone in the US) code for 'keeping blacks out of white neighbourhoods'.
In that environment, protests have accomplished nothing. So it's understandable that the frustration and anger boil over - and do so increasingly while police brutality continues and the federal leadership becomes noticeably more racist. I don't think anyone here on Redcafe is saying that riots and looting are good ways to get your point across; but given the above, I think it makes sense that most people here understand why Black people are now responding to yet another blatant and murderous injustice in this way. (Ignoring even the proven role of agents provocateurs from the right in these events.)
TL;DR: the idea of a moral equivalency between the violent protestors and these vigilantes is simply untenable. (To which it should also be added that violence is relatively uncommon; BLM protests have been ongoing for months now across the US, and how often have you heard about riots?)
I wouldn't say it's clear-cut, but if he was the instigator (pointing his gun at people or making verbal threats) then that significantly weakens any self-defense claim.You should read this:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/III/48
Any decent prosecutor will get the conviction. The psyco kid will go to jail for a long time.
The law does permit the use of lethal force, if you believe you're in danger of great bodily harm or death, and if you have exhausted all other options to avoid it. Given that someone fired a warning shot, a reasonable claim can be made that he thought the first victim, who was running after him, was the one who fired the shot, thus there's room to claim he thought he was going to die
The second incident, where he killed one and injured another, he had several people bearing down on him (one kicked him, another hit him with a skateboard, while a third had a handgun), so again room to claim he was fearing for his life.
It sickens me that this little fascist shit even has a chance to snake out of this, because I'm convinced he was hoping to get to shoot someone.
Dr. Dwayne
Self proclaimed tagline king.
We can hope that the law and order president punishes these criminals to the full extent of the law.Would love to see her get charged & arrested also. Wonder what the Illinois / Wisconsin laws are for a parent of a murdering youth who obtains a weapon illegally?
hobbers
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See, it actually isn't untenable. You can't shrug off violent riots/looting/arson (carried out by diverse groups I might add, both in terms of wealth and skin colour) and say it's morally superior to business owners or home owners trying to protect their property. Because it simply isn't. Regardless of what started the protests, regardless of endemic racism, regardless of the background of the rioters, regardless of whether there are proud boys or boogaloos mixed in with the people just trying to protect their properties.TL;DR: the idea of a moral equivalency between the violent protestors and these vigilantes is simply untenable.
WI_Red
Redcafes Most Rested
Yeah, so when an argument has to be qualified with that many regardless..es(?) it’s like a shit argument.See, it actually isn't untenable. You can't shrug off violent riots/looting/arson (carried out by diverse groups I might add, both in terms of wealth and skin colour) and say it's morally superior to business owners or home owners trying to protect their property. Because it simply isn't. Regardless of what started the protests, regardless of endemic racism, regardless of the background of the rioters, regardless of whether there are proud boys or boogaloos mixed in with the people just trying to protect their properties.
Just checked, it is.
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Jason Wilson is a reporter who covered ties between the Portland police and the militaias since about 2018, pretty chilling stuff.What will be interesting is when the studies of how aligned the police are with the proud boys / bugaloo boys / right wing militias come out. It’s patently obvious now how intertwined they are.
Also:
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31...-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/
Straight out of Goebbels‘ playbookJust a continuation of the new jim crow
Continuation of the new jim crow.
Longer version.....even worse.
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hobbers on video showing white guy chasing black people with a sword said:Looks like the guy who was originally chased with the sword (who reddit called the skateboarding black kid) is the one who inflicted the worst damage. Hitting him repeatedly over the head with his skateboard. Vile little runt.
Don't know the preceding events obviously but he was having rocks thrown at him and rounded on by at least 3 guys before he went on that wild charge. Probably lost his mind to fear.
hobbers on video of black youths beating up white couple killing zero said:That store owner getting beaten to death with boots, rocks and planks... what sub human scum they are. Sort of thing you'd expect to see in an ISIS promo video.
hobbers on white kid with semi-automatic rifle in the street shooting BLM protester in the head then one in the leg then one in the abdomen killing 2 said:Dunno about the first shooting, which is what I assume he's been arrested for. But the second and third are pretty clearly self defence arent they?
hobbers on black man in car being shot at by police said:Would probably have not spent a full minute encouraging the cops to keep shooting tear gas at his pregnant girlfriend.
hobbers on video of black man being aggressively removed from vehicle said:Well we don't know if he was compliant with police from before he started recording but I doubt it.
The bottom line though is that, the officer saying stupid aggressive things aside, because of his behaviour that guy was always going to have to be physically removed from the car and doing so was justified. And that would have happened exactly the same had he been white.
hobbers view on black rights organisation said:Before now the only things I associated BLM UK with were blocking ambulances on motorways and shutting down student libraries.
And the 'mass protests amid a pandemic for a virus that hits black people the hardest' strategy isn't doing much to change my general view of their approach to things.
hobbers' first response to George Floyd protesters outside Whitehouse said:Rise of the neckbeards.
Audit complete. No comments to add.hobbers on the potential racial element to a Trump tweet said:Certainly not anywhere other than America.
Although I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Trump call mostly white antifa rioters thugs multiple times. And as has been said Obama referred to both rioters and terrorists as thugs.
Gehrman
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Amercia is owned and controlled. That's what debt does. But the ones talking about systemic racism are marxists and that's the problem in many parts. You cannot have these ideologies in a healthy nation. So America is in trouble. It goes beyond politics. They pull down statues, not because of any other reason then they are marxists but they are very tricky with language. This floyd stuff, has been ridden hard by these people. It's one thing to think a certain way, it's another not only to do what they've done but for it to be allowed.....during a pandemic. With them science folk saying...they not spreading anything......of course they ain't (while you accuse churches oh and cash is very bad...) . But they used one perceived form of racism and enacted their agenda using another. In English, they're created this narrative that cops are racist. So much so that people might make that assumption. And once it happened, the marxists infiltrated and used what happened for their own selfish ends. And they're evil. But people don't get, you cannot eradicate racism because it's the marxists that use it. It is a political tool. They are behind it. They want you to talk about it because people are too stupid to understand where racism comes from. That's why it's folly to think you can solve racism by thinking it's legitimate. Evil is the root and that's what it is and people should call it evil because it cannot bring any kind of peace. If they wanted to cure racism? They'd stop talking about it. It really is that simple.
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arnie_ni
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Isnt this the first shooting?The reply section is such a cesspool. They are now trying to state that the scrote didn’t shoot anyone before the street scene, completely gaslighting the fact that he murdered someone just minutes earlier.
He then runs away from this, falls over and shoots the other 2 guys, killing one and almost taking the arm of another.
Is there a 3rd killing?
TheGame
Full Member
Yes we can say that nothing has changed, when people legitimately have the same major issues. People are still widely victim of police brutality, they are still denied basic amenities depending on the demographic of their community, they are still stigmatized. And Obama "the muslim", the US senator who was repeatadly asked to prove that he was american isn't exactly an example that I would use.Can we really say that nothing has changed? From Rosa Parks to Obama is a pretty big leap and things have definitely improved.
My own opinion is that acts of random looting are counter productive to the movement and gives ammunition to those on the other side. Instead of focusing on George Floyd and police brutality you now have a balancing act of criminal destruction caused by looters.
And I haven't addressed it before but acts of looting aren't part of the movement, you don't know who are the looters and for what its worth the other side as you call it has been part of it, Umbrella man being an iconic example.
Gehrman
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Drainy
Full Member
There is a rising sentiment in many states that the government needs to address the riots.
The longer it goes on the more the public will take their own actions and it will get worse.
But on the flip side aggressively dealing with the rioters will potentially be counter productive.
fergieisold
New Member
Such a shame that the original and well meaning message that Black Lives Matter is being destroyed by career protestors with seemingly no real life experience.
fergieisold
New Member
The first shooting he was also being chased and someone fired shots before he did?The reply section is such a cesspool. They are now trying to state that the scrote didn’t shoot anyone before the street scene, completely gaslighting the fact that he murdered someone just minutes earlier.
Rado_N
Yaaas Broncos!
Wow.Audit complete. No comments to add.
villain
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Only people who didn’t understand, agree with, or support ‘the original message’ of black lives matter think this waySuch a shame that the original and well meaning message that Black Lives Matter is being destroyed by career protestors with seemingly no real life experience.
side note: what do you understand that message to be?
afrocentricity
Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
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A lot of posters unwittingly letting the mask slip lately...
fergieisold
New Member
Completely disagree. You can support the idea that black lives matter as much as every other life (the key point the whole 'white lives matter' people don't understand).Only people who didn’t understand, agree with, or support ‘the original message’ of black lives matter think this way
side note: what do you understand that message to be?
BLM (the political group) seem to be a group of privileged kids with nothing better to do protesting about privilege.
fergieisold
New Member
I always make sure my mask is firmly over my nose thank you very much!A lot of posters unwittingly letting the mask slip lately...
villain
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Firstly - anyone who doesn't support the notion that black lives matter equally as any other life is not only ignorant, but racist too.Completely disagree. You can support the idea that black lives matter as much as every other life (the key point the whole 'white lives matter' people don't understand).
BLM (the political group) seem to be a group of privileged kids with nothing better to do protesting about privilege.
However, before I answer I pose these to you:
- Define 'the political group' of BLM with citations.
- Define 'privileged kids'
- Define privilege in the context you've provided.
fergieisold
New Member
I haven't got the time to right a well cited essay but BLM are too left wing for me. And the context was from the video with the guy in the truck. The privilege is having no idea what it's like to work hard for a living and have your business burned down. All they did was shout a load of nonsense at him and then claim they'd burn his business down too. That's completely unacceptable in my eyes.Firstly - anyone who doesn't support the notion that black lives matter equally as any other life is not only ignorant, but racist too.
However, before I answer I pose these to you:
- Define 'the political group' of BLM with citations.
- Define 'privileged kids'
- Define privilege in the context you've provided.
How anybody doesn't see black lives are as equal as everybody else is crazy to me, it's been painful the whole white lives matter crap.
villain
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Ok if that's your entire understanding of BLM, then it makes sense to me why you have no understanding of what BLM is actually about.I haven't got the time to right a well cited essay but BLM are too left wing for me. And the context was from the video with the guy in the truck. The privilege is having no idea what it's like to work hard for a living and have your business burned down. All they did was shout a load of nonsense at him and then claim they'd burn his business down too. That's completely unacceptable in my eyes.
How anybody doesn't see black lives are as equal as everybody else is crazy to me, it's been painful the whole white lives matter crap.