3 of the front four have been shocking .
Ralf’s 4-2-2-2
- Thread starter Desert Eagle
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Players getting used to it, give it more time. It brings in more quality players in the middle to create. Rashford and Ronaldo not the best strike partnership for it to work.
Are we really criticising formation and our general play after 1.5 week??? Sure, we should be dominating and winning 10-0 by now. Give the guy some time to make things work!
Is critiquing not allowed after 1.5 weeks then? You're only allowed to give an opinion after what 2 weeks? 2 months? 2 years?
No. not at all.
it is far too early to write it off.
however, I’d say it’s a very fair comment to say it is very narrow.
personally, I will need to be convinced of it. Will love to be converted
but it does seem to go against one of footballs most fundamental mantra.
that being when in position, make the pitch as big as possible.
but like I say… hope Ralph proves this to be outdated nonsense
In all honesty, it does not make much sense to criticise things like formation after 1.5 week as things like that need some time before you can say whether it is working or not. How many training sessions did the team have under Ralf? 4 or 5? Do you really expect to see big improvement at this stage?
Yes, let’s wait a month to see what works and what’s not working.
It's not even 1.5 weeks though. It's like complaining about your IT department taking three days to fix your issue when you report it at 4:55pm on a Friday and they come along at midday on Monday. The players don't train every day. Give them time to actually have a chance to adapt to the system.
Honestly, I'm amazed with how kneejerk and demanding our fans can be sometimes. I blame Netflix and the instant gratification generation, personally.
Ask the mods to shut this thread down then, obviously the last 6 pages weren't worth the discussion
It might be Ralf's 4222, but definitely not United.
I honestly don't know why he is so dogmatic with the 4-2-2-2 again. It didn't work in 18/19 at the start of the season (got smacked by Dortmund, draw to Dusseldorf, nearly went out in EL playoffs against Zorya, lost to Salzburg) and he seemed to be more variable and pragmatic depending on the opposition. This just looks like the worst elements of "Red Bull Football" including not getting any real chances.
Been crap so far let’s be honest
Rock bottom Norwich with half their squad out injured causing us problems
Rock bottom Norwich with half their squad out injured causing us problems
yes. I don’t like it. Players seem lost. Bruno out of his position. Full backs left solo with no link up with wingers (coz there aren’t any). 2 men upfront seem detached. We’re not even pressing. I don’t like it.
agree, absolutely ridiculous complaining about it so soon.
If we were winning we’d be saying the formation change is a master stroke, either way too soon to say.
Love the IT analogy too!
It's pretty obvious though that it doesn't suit this group of players.
It’s been a week. You can’t overhaul the style of a club in one week, especially one relying on physical conditioning.
For me this is starting to show :
What happens to the team when a formation/tactic is picked before regarding the best for the player
What happens to the team when a formation/tactic is picked before regarding the best for the player
Most definitely. It's strange that we are playing 4-2-2-2 when we don't have the players for it and the new manager in is almost certain not to continue with it in the summer. We don't have any fit strikers, our best players are wide players which this formation restricts and our full backs which provide the width are either shite or out of form.
Don't miss Ronaldo for God's sake
SIIIIIIIUUUUUUU!!!!!!!
FECK OFF KRUL
FECK OFF KRUL
What a save. He's part cat
Baillys about to feck up isn't he
Let's leave our forwards, as best comment of their performance is no comment.
But can somebody who knows more about formations explain to me, what in theory is the benefit of playing Bruno and Sancho in 4222?
Sancho looks like he can play decent every position, but still is most effective coming from the wings, while Bruno is completely useless both on and off the ball (too far from goal).
But can somebody who knows more about formations explain to me, what in theory is the benefit of playing Bruno and Sancho in 4222?
Sancho looks like he can play decent every position, but still is most effective coming from the wings, while Bruno is completely useless both on and off the ball (too far from goal).
Don't like it. Centre mids aren't good enough to get us the ball in advanced positions which means the AMs have to drop too deep to receive the ball.
The strike partnership of Ronaldo and Rashford has also been nonexistent.
I'm not a fan of Bruno but there's no point of this formation if he looks worse for it and the other players don't look any better other than Fred.
The strike partnership of Ronaldo and Rashford has also been nonexistent.
I'm not a fan of Bruno but there's no point of this formation if he looks worse for it and the other players don't look any better other than Fred.
Bruno was already stinking the place out before we switched to this, but now I don't think he fits in to this formation at all... looking like a real problem for the team.
Pogba would be best suited to the wide playmaker role but he's not back for another month at least. With that in mind, I think we need to look at moving Rashford (who also looks terrible) back in to the left sided position with Cavani or Greenwood up top with Ronaldo.
Pogba would be best suited to the wide playmaker role but he's not back for another month at least. With that in mind, I think we need to look at moving Rashford (who also looks terrible) back in to the left sided position with Cavani or Greenwood up top with Ronaldo.
I'm skeptical. A decent team will cut us open down the flanks for fun, especially with fullbacks who can't defend like Telles and Dalot.
true. Also, even in games like this where we play weaker opponents, we seem to struggle with the formation. How many times today have we seen Telles for instance getting the ball and then having to step and search for a player around him? The problem is when sancho/bruno pass the ball to the full backs, sancho/bruno are already behind them. It’s either cross into the box (which isn’t happening properly) or pass the ball backwards. Also, even in the middle, players don’t seem to click yet. Lots of changes in positions which makes it a bit all over the place.
with the players we have, it would be better to play with wingers. Sancho is better as a winger where he can can have more take ons/crosses there. Bruno is better in the middle rather than having to drift left and right. If he is to go back to his best, he would need to play in his preferred position. Rashford has been terrible. But we tried him as a striker before and i guess we can all agree he is better on the left (maybe now the best place for him is the bench anyway).
what will happen to pogba when he comes back? Will he fit in all of this? Are our full backs, all 4 of them, capable of holding up against fast pace opponents with good wingers?
i also do not see us pressing high. Shouldn’t we be doing this?
i too am skeptical. I understand RR has been there for 2 weeks, im not questioning the execution of the formation, i am skeptical about the formation itself.
At least from two games, Bruno doesn’t seem a good fit. That’s why I think Hannibal might be more suitable.
But, it’s too early to make judgements. Let’s see how we does in the next game. Brentford is also a high intensity team.
But, it’s too early to make judgements. Let’s see how we does in the next game. Brentford is also a high intensity team.
Sancho Ronaldo Greenwood
Pogba Fernandes
McTominay
Telles Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
Pogba Fernandes
McTominay
Telles Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
I'd love to see this soon. Greenwood should be in ahead of Rashford at the moment. Ronaldo will still be a threat and get us a goal.
Sancho has also been better than Rashford and will supply Ronaldo and Greenwood better.
With Pogba coming back he could put an end to Fred's stint and also mean a return to Fernandes playing more centrally.
McTominay is doing well as a CDM now and moving the ball better.
Overall attacking down the left to supply Ronaldo and Greenwood seems like it would be potent with Telles, Pogba and Sancho there. AWB could give some balance in defence allowing Greenwood to attack.
I think it will be very difficult for both full backs to be attacking against the top half Premier League teams.
Not so much about being allowed, is it valid after 1.5 weeks?
To me the formation is almost irrelevant when you have a group that don't blend well.
RR said we need more intensity from no 10s yet people think Pogba will fit right in. Whatever universe they are in.
That's what I think too. Both of them are not exactly good with 1 on 1. Not that AWB and Shaw had been great this season.
It's too early to make sweeping judgements that it isn't going to work or its crap.
There are always some worries with a 4-2-2-2 or diamond. The weaknesses are very obvious in how much the full backs have to do and things getting clogged up in the middle. The midfield 2 also get stretched very often in defensive areas.
But there's still a sound logic to it in my opinion, in that it's one of the few ways to get consistent support to Ronaldo in a back 4. RR is sensible enough to know that it's hard to trigger a press with only Ronaldo as the first line. Also Ronaldo generally looks better with a partner. I think it's partly based on trying to get the best out of him and partly it's something he's used before and he knows he's only got a very short time to make an impact so naturally you would refer to your experience.
But maybe he's got to work on our 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 game as well as an alternative.
There are always some worries with a 4-2-2-2 or diamond. The weaknesses are very obvious in how much the full backs have to do and things getting clogged up in the middle. The midfield 2 also get stretched very often in defensive areas.
But there's still a sound logic to it in my opinion, in that it's one of the few ways to get consistent support to Ronaldo in a back 4. RR is sensible enough to know that it's hard to trigger a press with only Ronaldo as the first line. Also Ronaldo generally looks better with a partner. I think it's partly based on trying to get the best out of him and partly it's something he's used before and he knows he's only got a very short time to make an impact so naturally you would refer to your experience.
But maybe he's got to work on our 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 game as well as an alternative.
4 - 2 - 2 - 2 was his first go to line up, no? I mean are we turning it around to blame on Ronaldo if it fails later?
The two players that are probably suited to this formation are Fred and Mctomminy.
He may need to drop Bruno and Ronaldo and get in Lingard and Cavani. Time to play players to fit the system rather than playing the names.
Definitely rotate the full backs for Brentford.
He may need to drop Bruno and Ronaldo and get in Lingard and Cavani. Time to play players to fit the system rather than playing the names.
Definitely rotate the full backs for Brentford.
Nothing to do with blame. Ronaldo is our best and most highly paid player and he's closer to 40 than 30. You have to use his immense strengths and paper over some of the cracks and the obvious way to do that is to make sure he's not leading the line on his own.
This is why I think he would have started with a 2 striker idea as a default. It's possible to imagine that with Cavani back that might work nicely too.
Problem is, Rangnick is playing Rashford and Ronaldo up top, and neither of these players are link players. It means, every time the ball gets played into them, more often than not, it breaks down. What we need is a Rooney type of player, who is pretty much very good at everything. At Madrid, Benzema played that role when he and Ronaldo were up top.
I'd potentially like to see Greenwood partnered next to one of them, with Ronaldo/Rashford solely focusing on running in behind, because at the moment, they are guilty of breaking up too many of our attacks. Bruno's no better either.
Guess he's still finding that right balance, but he should have realized that Ronaldo and Rashford doesn't make for a good partnership.
I'd potentially like to see Greenwood partnered next to one of them, with Ronaldo/Rashford solely focusing on running in behind, because at the moment, they are guilty of breaking up too many of our attacks. Bruno's no better either.
Guess he's still finding that right balance, but he should have realized that Ronaldo and Rashford doesn't make for a good partnership.
Not impressed with it so far.
We'll be put to the sword against any decent team.
Its an off the ball focused formation. It's nonsensical in the absence of pressing.
I've seen other teams take very long to adapt to it.
I've seen other teams take very long to adapt to it.
These are pretty much my concerns and question marks around the system. However, until he finds a way to stabilise the defence I reckon RR will persevere with this system. The amount of the times the players lose possession is beyond belief for a such supposed high quality players.