Straight to the point
Rashford is going ahead with surgery and could be out until October
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Honestly more than this being issue of varying opinions, you seem to be confused about the whole situation. Basically he has been hampered by an injury that's neither so serious to put him out of action firmly yet not just a niggle that all footballers play through (if you want details there are some excellent posts in this thread who know more about it). The impact of injury has grown over time and his performances have plummeted. Added to this is an ankle injury he got during the later part of last season. The said shoulder injury can either get healed over time through rest or through surgery. Likely the doctors weren't sure if it needs surgery and couldn't have made up their mind till Rashford rested and they could see the healing rate. Based on this, they have now taken a call to do the surgery.
Rashford had the choice to rest earlier during the season and then potentially get the surgery but didn't do so because he wanted to play and help the club. He has said in retrospect that it was a mistake and so was going to Euros. I agree. Yet he reminds us fans that he managed significant contribution so its not as if we didn't benefit from him playing through discomfort. Which is also something I agree.
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Thanks for taking the time to do this. I sure didn't plan to. Agreed entirely. Thought it was pretty clear what Rashford meant.
Thats fine.
There is no point in really continuing this but what you have described there is something that I have never once seen in 35 years of supporting Man Utd and being a football fan. An injury that can be used as an explanation for every poor performance you have yet at the same time allow you to be fit enough to play 60 games for club and country. How stunningly fortunate for him.
Well the other possibility is he is lying and he isn't actually injured. And the whole surgery is done to fool the fans. How likely is THAT?
I'm not saying he is lying at all but the portrayal of the seriousness of the injury appears to directly proportional to how well he is playing. Was someone lying when the surgery was announced and then changed to "considering options"? The thing is Im not accusing the boy of anything, Ive just never seen anything like it before and the whole thing seems incredibly odd.
How about Roy Keane’s chronic hip injury that plagued him in his final seasons at United? Or Ledley King’s dodgy knees? Or Paul McGrath towards the end of his career? John Terry’s back problems that ended up needing surgery? There’s loads of examples of footballers nursing injuries through an entire season. You’re talking nonsense here.
You must have a poor memory then. As @Pogue Mahone mentioned above there are lot of other examples and also as he said you're talking bullshit throughout the thread.
I dont recall any of these guys having the injury used as an excuse for poor performance. Thats my point. These guys were playing to the highest standards and managing the injury. With Rashford we have the contrast of "he's pulling big numbers therefore is fine" and "of course he's playing badly, he's got a big injury". Its completely different to McGrath or King who did next to no trining but turned in world class performances on a Saturday.
Again, these guys didn't use it as an excuse for poor performance which is what I said. perhaps read the whole post before resorting to pathetic insults.
Roy Keane had to literally play in a different position because of his dodgy hip. That’s why so many younger (back then!) United fans got the mistaken impression he was a purely defensive midfielder.
The issue with rashford is that he plays in moments, similar to bruno at times. He can be having an absolute stinker and then make one run and score a crucial goal. He's been playing poorly for a while, but still contributing something that we don't really get from anyone else apart from maybe cavani now. Movement in behind. Surgery and rest will do him the world of good, he's dealt with a lot of emotional pressures for someone that young. He'll be back stronger.
Yes I am aware of that. That isnt the same thing as apologising for poor performance though which is what he did at Celtic, and ended up not playing at all.
Paul Mcgrath was managing an injury (as players do, I haven't said otherwise) but it was never a reason for him playing badly as I recall and in fact his inability to train due to it yet play imperiously on a Saturday was marvelled at. Did he not win a Player of the Year award at Villa actually? Ledley King had his number of games reduced due to injury and was managed that way. What Im rather flippantly saying in response to a specific post is that seemingly Rashford can blame the injury for any poor performances that come along while at the same time manage 60 games in the season. Pretty much get out of jail free in some peoples eyes isnt it.
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I don’t know what you mean by “get out of jail free” card. Rashford’s got a hell of a lot of criticism on her for his performance last season. Shoulder injury or no shoulder injury.
Anyway, after you seem to have gone 35 years without ever hearing about a footballer being hindered by an injury all season long here’s another example for you. From the season just gone. From the same team as Rashford.
The lack of mitigation or adjustments put in place as a result of the injury is the strange thing.
If you're injured to the extent that it's evidently very badly affecting your performances then even if you're considered the most critical person at the club, if you're injured to such a degree then surely game time would be managed; rest days extended. You'd be taken off after an hour, dropped for games against smaller sides and saved up for the bigger matches.
Absolutely none of this happened. It doesn't mean the injury isn't there, but given that he was assessed by United doctors throughout the season to be completely fit to play and by England medical staff to be fit to be available for selection in the Euros - and even now the fact the surgery timetable doesn't ever seem to have been driven by the club who identified a need for it - all suggests that there exists a difference of opinion over how severe the injury is.
Whilst they're clearly going to allow the surgery to go ahead, the club don't appear to have been pushing for it in a way you'd expect. A club with a player in need of surgery for the last few months timetables it in. It doesn't happen, months later, with a 'go on holiday and see if you want it' scenario. Which is exactly what happened here. It's almost as if the club is agreeing to a request rather than pushing for the solution to a long-standing problem that's been identified.
If you're injured to the extent that it's evidently very badly affecting your performances then even if you're considered the most critical person at the club, if you're injured to such a degree then surely game time would be managed; rest days extended. You'd be taken off after an hour, dropped for games against smaller sides and saved up for the bigger matches.
Absolutely none of this happened. It doesn't mean the injury isn't there, but given that he was assessed by United doctors throughout the season to be completely fit to play and by England medical staff to be fit to be available for selection in the Euros - and even now the fact the surgery timetable doesn't ever seem to have been driven by the club who identified a need for it - all suggests that there exists a difference of opinion over how severe the injury is.
Whilst they're clearly going to allow the surgery to go ahead, the club don't appear to have been pushing for it in a way you'd expect. A club with a player in need of surgery for the last few months timetables it in. It doesn't happen, months later, with a 'go on holiday and see if you want it' scenario. Which is exactly what happened here. It's almost as if the club is agreeing to a request rather than pushing for the solution to a long-standing problem that's been identified.
I dont get what you aren't understanding or choosing not to understand.
When did I EVER say I hadn't heard of a footballer being hindered by an injury? Bloody hell, I addressed that in my first response to you. Yes footballers manage injuries. You cited McGrath, you cited Keane, you cited King. I got that and responded I dont need another patronising example as though that was what I said when it very clearly wasn't. McGrath managed his injury (and alcoholism into the bargain) and the injury wasn't a reason for him playing badly. I dont recall a season where he was praised for playing well and if he played badly the response was "Well what do you expect, his knees are ******". That didn't happen. He either played or he didn't and when he did he was judged on his performances. I dont recall many thread here, comments in the media or anywhere else excusing Lindelof when he played badly either. If he was on the pitch he was judged for his performance - rightly so.
I have not heard of a scenario as was being played out in this thread and in the post I responded to whereby when a player plays badly he can fall back on an injury to excuse it. Obviously the people attacking Rashford aren't saying that but those that are defending him are and so was Rasford himself which was my entire point. "I was playing so badly I was letting people down but im playing well enough to expect to play for England" type of thing. I dont see why its so hard to grasp the difference between that and a player simply being injured or managing an injury.
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Well this thread has turned a strange turn thanks to one particular poster. First time in 35 years that a player is hindered by injury, injury which got worse over time.
Bloody hell.
Bloody hell.
You cant read either eh?
I can but your posts are a mess.
I guess the difference is they’re defensive players so they can play more conservatively, with their head, and still excel. You can’t do that playing at pace with twists and turns and people biting away at you, looking to prey on your frailties. And Roy Keane was obviously playing within himself by the time the hip injury came into play. It wasn’t used as an excuse for poor performances it was used as an explanation. You’re the one layering the connotations on top.
For a more recent and relevant example you can look at Eden Hazard. In between two seasons where he was competing for POTY, he had that season where he could hardly find the back of the net. He said an injury held him back all season, niggled away at his body and mind, and prevented him from playing with the kind of speed and intensity that puts him at that level. Many of his supporters thought that made sense. Some thought it was an excuse. All the normal stuff.
There’s loads of examples. It’s a bit weird that you’re singling out Rashford for it.
My two cents:
First. Rashford is playing in top tier football since he was 18. The boy needs a good rest at this point of his career. I am in a full support of his decision.
Some of the fans are too greedy and short sighted. Remember Rooney’s sharp decline at the age of 29?
Second. I bet Rashford is going to light EPL up after he recovers from surgery.
Last season he had to play more narrow and to assume some supporting duties because we desperately lacked penetration. We struggled to create space. Also, he was used on the right wing sometimes (for the same reason).
In 21-22, Sancho will occupy the defenders on the right. That will naturally open space for Rashford on the left. Rashford is a world class wide poacher who shouldn’t be involved in congested play. The team should work to open space for him.
Also, Varane’s ability to switch the ball to the flanks will be beneficial for Marcus runs.
I expect that Rashford will easily equal his output in the last season even starting in October.
First. Rashford is playing in top tier football since he was 18. The boy needs a good rest at this point of his career. I am in a full support of his decision.
Some of the fans are too greedy and short sighted. Remember Rooney’s sharp decline at the age of 29?
Second. I bet Rashford is going to light EPL up after he recovers from surgery.
Last season he had to play more narrow and to assume some supporting duties because we desperately lacked penetration. We struggled to create space. Also, he was used on the right wing sometimes (for the same reason).
In 21-22, Sancho will occupy the defenders on the right. That will naturally open space for Rashford on the left. Rashford is a world class wide poacher who shouldn’t be involved in congested play. The team should work to open space for him.
Also, Varane’s ability to switch the ball to the flanks will be beneficial for Marcus runs.
I expect that Rashford will easily equal his output in the last season even starting in October.
Thank you for the reasoned response with no insults.
I will explain again as maybe Im not being as clear as I thought.
1) Im not singling Rashford out for playing with an injury. Thats not and has never been the point I was trying to make. You may also be completely correct in what you say about the defensive players. Thats a fair point.
2) I totally accept the example of Hazard but you are actually making my point for me. Hazard was bloody awful. No one was citing his numbers and claiming he was actually playing well in the face of the evidence to the contrary. There was clearly something amiss with him and it showed both in performances to the naked eye and the numbers he was pulling.
Thats not whats happening with Rashford. My entire point over these last couple of pages has been about the contradiction of the statement he made which is in keeping with the contradiction of opinion of people defending him. He is so badly affected by the injury that he is playing very badly and in his own words "letting people down" but at the SAME TIME the injury is such an irrelevance that again in his own words he "made 36 goal contributions" and also played in 60 games. He has been defended by people citing 36 goal contributions as evidence that he is playing well while others have cited the injury as an explanation as to why he is clearly playing badly. Rashford himself in his statement has opted for both as an explanation of his season. He is playing badly but he expected to play for England. He was letting people down but he made 36 goal contributions.
When you add in the "He needs an op", "he's examining his options", "he needs an op" Hokey Cokey thats been going on you can surely see why this is different to other examples. As another poster said, players playing with an injury significant enough to have the impact suggested are "managed' by their club. We have seen none of this with Rashford. He played in 37 league games. he played in 57 games for Man Utd and he played in 6 Internationals for England. I have seen many many players play short term while injured. I have seem many players "managed' by their clubs because of ongoing problems, rested here and there, taken off after an hour, extra rest all that sort of thing. None of this with Rashford so just how serious can this actually be? No one knows and my very point initially was that his own statement didn't help clear up whether he is an off form player, playing with a wee niggle that could be managed by an op or a wee bit of rest or whether he has been mismanaged by a club and a nation and has actually defied the odds completely by scoring 20 goals in a season where he was crying out for an op to fix him.
I don't think I've seen anyone say he's been playing well since January to be honest. I have seen plenty of people claim that he's been awful and the obvious rebuttal to that is he hasn't been that bad, look at his numbers...
I can't see the contradiction. He has been playing through pain. Despite the pain and discomfort he still had a very decent return in terms of goal contributions... I believe his output post Christmas would have been a lot higher without any injuries.
I remember reading this article from the Guardian a couple of years ago;
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...sunderland-charlton-league-one-play-off-final
“I didn’t realise it but I’d been playing with a torn hip for probably four years,” he says. “I was taking stupid amounts of painkillers. I struggled to walk to the toilet in the morning. I’d never felt pain like it. In the last 20 minutes of games I was thinking: ‘I’m letting the boys down here.’ That was the worst bit.”
Diagnosis proved difficult. “At one point they sent me to a psychologist to see if it was inside my head but I knew I was feeling something real,” says Cattermole. “The club looked at specialists across the world and, fortunately, in the end, I went out to Colorado and saw a guy in Richard Steadman’s clinic. I had the operation, was out for six months and now’s the best I’ve ever felt.”
Point being, people can play through pain quite often for extended periods of time, definitely doesn't mean there performances aren't affected, surely thats obvious? How much, we'll never know in anyones case?
I just think you’re combining two different sets of views from different time periods or different people. Some people think Rashford played well, some people think he played poorly. Some people thought he played well in the first half of the season, and poorly in the second half of the season. Those aren’t contradictions but varied opinions on a vague subject; that’s totally normal.
I think he played very well in the first half and poorly in the second half of the season. Overall I think he had a good season because those are strong numbers and they translated to real points, but he also destroyed a lot of attacks. It seemed obvious he was playing with a serious injury, possibly for the wrong reasons, and possibly that harmed him and the team more than the alternative. But I give him credit for playing through that anyway, and I view his overall contribution last season in a greater light given the difficulties he faced.
The rest of the stuff is mostly because Rashford is an opinionated public figure who gets a lot of attention and people are quick to scrutinise or glorify. He’s different to Hazard because the British public pay attention to him differently. You just have more visibility into the normal “will he, won’t he” process of deciding whether to go for a big surgery that might backfire, will take out a big chunk of playing time, and with an injury that is debilitating but not critical.
Wrapping that up into some conspiracy that attacks his character and questions the motives of his supporters is a bit weird man.
Has he had the surgery yet or is he still arsing around?
Apart from 2-3 posters, did anyone argue that Rashford didn't have poor second half of the season? I might have missed that.
Also all the argument was about Rashford's ability and as a player, not just his second half of the performance. Some rated him as a decent player and nothing more, some thinks he isn't good enough for any top 7 clubs in top leagues. All those arguments and counter arguments has nothing to do with his second half performance. Someone saying Rashford is a good player doesn't mean he had good second half of the season.
Also all the argument was about Rashford's ability and as a player, not just his second half of the performance. Some rated him as a decent player and nothing more, some thinks he isn't good enough for any top 7 clubs in top leagues. All those arguments and counter arguments has nothing to do with his second half performance. Someone saying Rashford is a good player doesn't mean he had good second half of the season.
He is like our sterling to city. Only quality penetrative wing forward we have at the club. That is out of him Sancho, James, lingard Amad and greenwood. Not including martial because he is our main striker. That alone makes him a key player by default whether or not some believe he is good or not. You just don’t get that physical aspect from the rest as you do with rashford. Has to take this time on the sidelines to freshen up and be ready when he is fully healed.
It’s the lack of mitigation throughout the season to manage the injury that’s the strange thing.
With a player nursing an injury that was so severe that it badly impacted his form why did we see almost zero attempt to make adjustments to navigate the remainder of the season with it. He was used as if he wasn’t injured at all.
It doesn’t mean he can’t have been carrying a niggle and surgery might be an option if it’s a chronic, persistent problem but whatever the severity of the injury is I don’t think it can be solely or even predominantly to blame for how poor he’s been since Christmas
With a player nursing an injury that was so severe that it badly impacted his form why did we see almost zero attempt to make adjustments to navigate the remainder of the season with it. He was used as if he wasn’t injured at all.
It doesn’t mean he can’t have been carrying a niggle and surgery might be an option if it’s a chronic, persistent problem but whatever the severity of the injury is I don’t think it can be solely or even predominantly to blame for how poor he’s been since Christmas
If its not on Instagram it didn't happen.
The surgery comes at a good time as he’s been running on empty for a while. Sancho will hopefully spur him on in the same way Telles had an apparent impact on Shaw.
I don’t care what the numbers say there’s been something off about Rashford for a while now. He hopefully comes back better but I think Greenwood is nipping at his heels to be honest and I wouldn’t be surprised if this season he surpasses him in pecking order
I don’t care what the numbers say there’s been something off about Rashford for a while now. He hopefully comes back better but I think Greenwood is nipping at his heels to be honest and I wouldn’t be surprised if this season he surpasses him in pecking order
So happy he has got this sorted. Best thing for him to recover and come back stronger
Speedy recovery hopefully.
I wonder what the nature of the procedure was and if his foot needs surgery also.
Get well soon sweet prince
Bloody chancer, kicking back with his feet up, while everyone else is in pre season.
What about his ankle?
Happy he got it done though.
Happy he got it done though.
Get better soon Rashy! Come back stronger fitter and better! Time to win those trophies!
Hopefully he recovers completely.