Murtough is that you?
Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
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Seems like he was gonna explode before Atlanta got him, 6 goals and 3 assists in 7 games right before his move.
Murtough is that you?
Call me Ed, pleaseSo around 60 for a talent that is more established in a bigger European league would seem likely if we're using that transfer as a benchmark.
Is he a player discovered by the scouts though? He seems like one of the hottest prospects at CF position, or am I wrong here? I always thought scouts go for the less obvious choices, but maybe I am wrong here.
Maybe he is, but that wouldn't go along with 'bloody scouts dont do a damn thing' agenda.
Weghourst was bat sht crazy. Then he played him as a 10. So anything s possible. But Hojlund as our main striker next season is nearly as crazy. If it happens we will spend the next season and probably the one after reading give him time posts. Then he'll score and everyone will say- told you. He's going to be brilliant. Then he wont score for 10 games.
Same was said about Weghourst. At some point this club needs to realize top strikers are important. Like a striker that scores 20+ goals.
Ekitike went for 35m euros. Similar age, potential, stats and playing in the top 5 league
Just like German clubs in Bundesliga love to do for Bayern, French clubs enjoy kissing PSG's ass and supply them with their talents for cheap.
The only top striker who is available and would guarantee you +20 goals a season in the PL is Kane. We simply won't able to get him imo. Like hell we'd have the required money for that bold cnut even considering selling Kane to us.
I do think going into next season with this lad as our only striking signing would be mental and massively naive and troubling. That or they know something we don’t and he’s destined to be an absolute instant success.
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He was also on loan with an option to buy, slightly different scenario to a club not needing to sell a talent to an interested party as is the case here.
He would've been the scouts' discovery if they tried to sign him while he was still playing in Denmark or Austria.
https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...e-deal-to-buy-striker-hugo-ekitike-from-reims
Newcastle were about to get him for that price before PSG swooped in
I am not sure what our scouts do. We have a number of players that were probably recomended by scouts and at best they stay at the periphery of the first team. Dalot is probably the only one getting regular performances and doing quite alright (brought for a low fee and young). Pellistri is getting like single minutes so far and doesn't look that promising.
Van de Beek and Bruno maybe have been recommended by scouts but they were high money transfers so it's not like they appeared out of nowhere. Donny was brought to the club at 23 yo and Bruno 24 so I guess we can count them in. Martial was expensive but young when brought in, that would be similar situation to Hojlund.
Martinez/Antony were brought by Ten Hag. All the rest are well established players we got + homegrown Rashford.
I don't think there is a strong case that our scouting department is doing a good job. Obviously part of the story is how the club is run.
That's how I see it indeed.
Which they probably did, along with other top clubs
Paris was his first big transfer, again Hoijland’s was Atalanta. This next transfer would arguably be the benchmark, but Ekitike has failed at Paris, whereas Hoijland has been a relative success.
I actually think Isak should be the benchmark here, as an upper limit. If he was €70m then Hoijland should be €50-60m including bonuses, based on the fact teams know we’re in the market for a forward and the market has inflated this season.
The forward market is painfully thin at the minute, we’re going to overpay. If we get him around €50m plus bonuses I don’t think it’s too bad all things considered
Not sure where the incompetence was the greatest actually. The scouts and their assessment or the ones above them deciding to go for them. Now tell me, what kind of scout can go and watch Fred play for Shakhtar and recommend the player as fitting for a Manchester United midfielder? And on top of that pay 55-60m for that abomination? Then you have an example like Antony who was clearly ETH recommendation, and obviously he okeyed the transfer at 100m euros? Obviously it's not just the scouts but that is for a different thread.
Yeah that’s a pretty acceptable.
Not during the season, but i went back and checked a lot of his individual performance videos once we started being heavily linked. I'd say I've watched about 15 clips of him both for Atalanta and Denmark. Did the same with Onana for that matter.
As I said, I'll gladly eat my words and admit i was wrong should he turn into the player most think he will be.
I don't think this is valid argument. We have signed a lot of players that weren't up to the task of playing form United. It is not a flawless scouting machine that gets it right all the time, which would make questioning the decision pointless. Several deciding factors are forcing us to act now and ultimately we are taking a very expensive gamble on an 20 year old.
Just my opinion based on my observations.Why are your standards higher than paid professionals?
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Rashford, Hojlund and Martial is better than what United had last season therefore it is progress!
For me Garnacho will only get better in the coming season, meaning Rashford will start many games centrally. Sharing the CF role between Rashford and Hojlund seems fine to me, with Martial playing minutes as a sub when he is fit.
Does that trio scream league winners...no! but first the team needs to challenge for the league before they can win it.
For me Garnacho will only get better in the coming season, meaning Rashford will start many games centrally. Sharing the CF role between Rashford and Hojlund seems fine to me, with Martial playing minutes as a sub when he is fit.
Does that trio scream league winners...no! but first the team needs to challenge for the league before they can win it.
I'm confident he can do well for us and help us at least get a solid top 3/4. Sure I'd love Kane or some other elite option but there isn't much around.
He has good instincts in the box and good build up play and can be a fast runner, quite a lot of times for Atalanta he'd do his bit but not get the return ball and attacks would fizzle out by other players. The fewer chances he got he took them well and were very much the chances that went begging so much for us last season. Perhaps see him getting 15 goals which would be a huge help considering we had a half dead player in Martial and no league goals Weghorst.
Really we need to improve our play and get more goals from everyone
He has good instincts in the box and good build up play and can be a fast runner, quite a lot of times for Atalanta he'd do his bit but not get the return ball and attacks would fizzle out by other players. The fewer chances he got he took them well and were very much the chances that went begging so much for us last season. Perhaps see him getting 15 goals which would be a huge help considering we had a half dead player in Martial and no league goals Weghorst.
Really we need to improve our play and get more goals from everyone
As for your first point, I agree. What you forget is that you need to take into account their age when they were sold, and what clubs they went from and to. Bellingham played for Birmingham in Championship and went to Dortmund. Birmingham aren't going to slap a €70m figure for a 16 year old. No player has ever been sold for close to that amount from Championship. Pedri was 17 and was sold from Las Palmas in the second division of Spain. It really goes without saying that players from that league don't go for that amount, especially not teenagers.
If Højlund had played for Monza or Cremonese in Serie A, it's fairly obvious the price wouldn't be the same. Unfortunately he plays for Atalanta, who are a decent club with ambitions to compete and they have enough money.
As for your second point, I disagree. Personally, I think he could have world class potential. Look away from goals for a second and look at his abilities, movement and his natural instincts as a forward and try to understand why he could suddenly burst into a top striker. It's not about goals at that age, as witnessed with Cavani, Lewandowski, Falcao and many other strikers. Only young bloomers like Agüero, Ronaldo, Rooney, Haaland etc score that amount of goals at a young age, but the majority of great strikers don't.
€70m for a world class talent (notice talent, not potential) would be extremely cheap in this market. A young Rooney would go for more than twice that. With that in mind, and the fact that he plays for a good club who don't need money and his qualities, do you really think €60m is that much?
I dont care. Its been 10 plus years since we had striker that wasn't past it and could score 20+ goals. Heck probably longer. Who was our last top striker that was consistent over 3 seasons? Rooney? Berbatov? I can't even remember anymore. Someone needs to sort this out. Are we going to go 20 years without a top striker? 30?
I think people's perceptions of scouts are stuck in the 1980s and heavily influenced by games like fifa and FM, which simplify the process down to make it fun and engaging.
I expect we will have a database that is full of players. Thousands of them with data from opta or whoever we use feeding into it and from there, data analysts will narrow down players that fit into tons of different categories. We will then assign scouts to apply an eye test and will have scouts ranging from youth leagues right the way up to other scouts who go and track players over the course of 6 months because the stats indicate one thing but you need to verify it. Plus there are things that stays can't pick up does a player scan? Do they play the ball to feet when they move it forward? How comfortable are they in and when receiving possession? Etc.
I swear people think we have a group of like ten people and they just get sent off to different areas and have to wander around just looking for decent games to watch, scouring Google for who might be good to see etc. They aren't just going to pop along to some ligue 2 games on the off chance that someone nobody ever heard of is there and plays well.
I think fans perceptions of how it all works comes across as so overly simplified that it then leads to our own frustrations because we guess, fill in the blanks with our very limited knowledge and male tons of assumptions.
Speaking of scouts as a single entity is likely totally wrong as well. There will be different types with different areas they excel in. They aren't just a wandering nomad tribe who we hope reel in some total unknowns. The process will Lilley be an all year round, constant discussions and analysis of hundreds of players from all different types of categories.
We've also signed a lot of players that have gone into the U18s etc that are a direct result of our scouts and the work they do, but nobody talks about all that activity because Romano doesn't tweet it and that's how 90% of people seem to get all of their club knowledge. Twitter, Romano, Goldbridge.
Google players United have signed in the last 5 years or so, that are under the age of 19 and I think a lot of people will be surprised at how much activity there actually is and that will be from one part of our scouting department, who will work in conjunction with other departments as well as the manager etc to constantly keep lists of players across different levels, ages and abilities. We have gotten much better at bringing players in when they are teenagers. Garnacho, Jurado, McNeill, Fernandez were all brought in at times I saw lots of fans whinging that we don't identify young talent. Emeran is another one, I think we brought over from France when he was 15? 16 maybe?
If people actually put in time to research their opinions then the discourse around football would be so much better. As I said though, if it isn't on twitter or Romano/Goldbridge aren't saying it then a lot of people just think it isn't happening.
Calm down mate. Everyone want Kane or a top proven striker too but we sadly don't have the money atm. I'm not even sure if we'd have the cash for Hojlund.
Most don't know this, but we were actually the first club, along with Barcelona, who discovered Vinicius Junior. The issue is getting a work permit, which isn't a problem in Spain. If there was no problems, you'd see a lot more Brazilians in Premier League playing for lower/mid-table clubs. It's not impossible, but more challenging than in Spain.
These "wonderkids" aren't necessarily wonderkids because they're from Brazil, either. Most don't live up to their potential. Brazilians tend to have great technique, which makes it's easy on the eyes when watching compilations of them on YouTube, but it's a whole different story translating their abilities to the football pitch in La Liga or Premier League.
Vitor Roque wasn't exactly an unknown either. All of the top clubs knew of him, and if I remember correctly, we were also scouting him. Let's wait and see how he develops before calling him a wonderkid. It is absolutely not a guarantee that he or Endrick will become great players.
Martial doesn't even deserve to be discussed. He's totally unreliable and can't be trusted. How we're still in a position where people talk about him with even a shred of impact is staggering. Should have been moved on years ago.
That's a bit weird rant because I'd assume that's exactly how people see it.
Analyze available data, find those standing out, check them out in person. That's for top 5 leagues and senior (even if young players).
I don't know how much data there is for youngsters. That's probably more legwork for scouts.
Anyway, I find it hard to spot many players that have been found by scouts playing regularly for us. Martial, Dalot, Bruno Maybe. Not sure if that's a good score compared with other clubs.
there were only 6 players who scored 20+ goals in the top 4 leagues.
20+ goal scorers are hard to find.
Im totally calm. I just made the point that everyone should stop being so defeatist and accepting. Old has beens and now young unproven and 10 years plus of it should not be acceptable at a club like United.
It's absolutely not a flawed argument. You could add other strikers to this list too, like Cavani, Lewandowski or Falcao. The point is that we don't need him to become as good as these players for him to be worth the €60m we'd pay for. It's not even likely he will be as good as them, but this is the market we're in, whether we like it or not. He has had one decent season, but he is also only 20 years old, so how many do you expect him to have? He's obviously not a generational talent, so he's not going to be a Rooney who's had 3-4 good seasons by the time he's 20.
I think it's important to look at the progressive trajectory he's had in such a short amount of time and that it has to count for something. From Copenhagen to Sturm Graz and then to Atalanta and United in a little over a year means you're doing something right.
I mentioned in another post that it's fair to look away from goals for a second (even if it's not bad if you look at non-penalty xG per 90). It's more important to look at his abilities, his off-the-ball movement and how he operates in little space, his hold-up play at his age and the natural instincts he has inside the box, which actually reminds me of Cavani. Combine these qualities of his, and try to understand why he can suddenly burst into a top striker. Maybe other strikers have a better scoring record at his age, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything at all. It's about the qualities he has, even if he's a raw talent, that got scouts hyped for him.
Maybe scouts do just that - scout - and recommend. Perhaps, just perhaps, they don't actually make the decision on who to bring in? You do realise we scouted both Caicedo and Vinicius Junior first?
Do we reckon he'd come in as our first option? I can see us going into the season with Martial as our first-choice striker, but fully prepared to go with Hojlund or Rsahford as and when the inevitable injuries set in.
Mate, I am looking at his abilities and saying this. He is extremely raw and his stats aren't massively impressive on top. Some bits are and others he lags behind even Martial in.
Ive watched the all touch videos (not the highlights) and can say that fee is fecked.
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I'm surprised there's so much debate / dislike about the potential Hojlund deal from some posters.
Obviously, we'd ideally be shopping in the elite section and spending £100m+ on one of the few top #9's out there.
But we clearly can't afford that market this summer - but do need a #9 this window - and so we're shopping in the tier or two below for a striker around the £45-60m range, similar to the range of our other two signings.
But unlike a keeper, or an AM with one year left on their contract, you're not going to get a top, in their prime, striker for that fee. So of course whoever we bring in isn't going to be Haaland, Kane, Osimhen, Mbappe level.
And of all the main names linked from the tier below, there really isn't a huge amount of difference between them in terms of ability or CV (i.e. none are 'generational talents' or have years of scoring goals for top teams, winning major trophies, etc). So if Hojlund is the one the club are targeting, and feel like is the one that would most suit ETH's game plan - or just feel he is the most attainable, or the one that most wants to come or whatever - then I don't see why there's such a pushback against that from some.
If we were opting for him when the likes of Kane and Osimhen we're attainable targets, I'd get the frustration. But when you consider the actual attainable alternatives? Then I don't see why there's such a frustration from some that the club seem to be opting for Hojlund ahead of other similar level options.
Obviously, we'd ideally be shopping in the elite section and spending £100m+ on one of the few top #9's out there.
But we clearly can't afford that market this summer - but do need a #9 this window - and so we're shopping in the tier or two below for a striker around the £45-60m range, similar to the range of our other two signings.
But unlike a keeper, or an AM with one year left on their contract, you're not going to get a top, in their prime, striker for that fee. So of course whoever we bring in isn't going to be Haaland, Kane, Osimhen, Mbappe level.
And of all the main names linked from the tier below, there really isn't a huge amount of difference between them in terms of ability or CV (i.e. none are 'generational talents' or have years of scoring goals for top teams, winning major trophies, etc). So if Hojlund is the one the club are targeting, and feel like is the one that would most suit ETH's game plan - or just feel he is the most attainable, or the one that most wants to come or whatever - then I don't see why there's such a pushback against that from some.
If we were opting for him when the likes of Kane and Osimhen we're attainable targets, I'd get the frustration. But when you consider the actual attainable alternatives? Then I don't see why there's such a frustration from some that the club seem to be opting for Hojlund ahead of other similar level options.
Yes, he is raw, but it's the combination of all of these qualities that make him a striker that potentially could be an excellent one. Is he worth €70m? I don't think so, but what other choices do we have? Kolo Muani for €100m who is very similar to Rashford and loves to operate from the left? Goncalo Ramos for €120m? Or Callum Wilson or Ollie Watkins like some have suggested? The whole point is looking for a striker that can burst into a top one, not a Watkins-level player who never will be good enough, despite scoring 14-15 goals in the PL. Maybe you can't see it, others can, and Ten Hag and his scouts see it that way.
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