Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
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For every Harry Kane (or similar), how many players could you find who were decent as a 20 year old and stayed decent, without ever getting anywhere near close enough to be a starter for Man Utd? Like, what’s the ratio? 100-200 consistently decent players for each Harry Kane type player?
Stephen Hawking only had one university degree at aged 21. Doesn’t mean you could pick a 21 yr old graduate off the street and realistically expect them to end up as clever as Hawking was.
There’s a logical fallacy in your argument.
No one said they didn't? The sentence you've just quoted says "goals don't only count against xyz". You're the one wanting to argue against his scoring stats, by asking for an even more segmented set of scoring stats.
The notion of "top 6 opposition" is a fairly recent one and should go some way to show how comical it is to judge strikers mostly on that. The point is that over the course of a 38 games league season - every game matters?!
The fact that he's "failed" at both United and Chelsea is a testament to his game having limitations that these teams wanted to move away from - you know, with football evolving and whatnot, not a reflection on his goalscoring, because - again, Lukaku scores goals.
Feel like this signing is a game changer for United. Check out Raees' video on Højlund. It's definitely got me excited for the new season!!
How did you miss Robin..
Richardson
Are you expecting him to score like Haaland?
I was talking about his season at the same age, not his career. But of course you are now 2 posts in where you have offered nothing but sneering, and of course an utterly hilarious quip, so it's not that easy to understand where we weren't on the same page as there is nothing.constructive in your posts.
But nonetheless, against my better judgement, see below. Now if you care to add more than a few words and a sh*t joke and explain what I read wrong?
2012/13
Spurs 1 game, 0 goals
Norwich 5 games, 0 goals
Leicester 15 games, 2 goals
I must say for a 20yo he looks impressive physically. By the time he's 23/24 he'll look like a fecking tank.
Last striker that really used his physicality to bring others into play was Zlatan. I do love a striker that is a beast in back to goal play. Saha, Yorke and Hughes were some of our best.
Last striker that really used his physicality to bring others into play was Zlatan. I do love a striker that is a beast in back to goal play. Saha, Yorke and Hughes were some of our best.
I'm not suggesting they would follow the same career trajectory. I was simply pointing out that not every player at age 20 is on a goal per game scoring ratio. A lot of people seem concerned that his stats aren't jumping off the page so just giving an observation. It wasn't an argument, just a simple example. Don't overthink it.
And by the way, you probably shouldn't try to point out a logical fallacy and then use one in the same post.
Very odd hill for you to die on.
Scoring goals means feck all if he can't score when it matters. It's that simple. His stats will be a lot better than say drogbas, and I'd have drogba in my team over him every day of the week. I don't care if he can score a hat trick against Norwich if he can't get a sniff at goal against Liverpool, or any important occasion. The epitome of flat track bully.
Jesus grow thicker skin, it's not that deep.
You said where kane was at, at the same age. At that point in Kane's career he scored 17 goals across 3/4 seasons. To say he'd only scored 2 goals is a little disingenuous even if you were only talking about a single season. I don't know why you would disregard all previous seasons though?
Something else I haven't seen in a Utd striker for years is someone willing to gamble in order to get on the end of balls. I also like he is willing to charge down keepers if he senses an opportunity.
You're totally right, the greatest number 9s aren't specially rapid. Talking about Benzema, Kane, Lewandowski. They got enough pace but as you say their main strength is the way they read and anticipate defenders.
So if your original intention was to state that you can’t rule out him being the next Harry Kane then you’d have a point. But I’d be very surprised if you meant that; you can’t rule out anyone from being the next Harry Kane. Not quite sure where the Kane reference fits in in that case.
Do we think he's an automatic starter for us now given the fee, with Rashford on the left?
Or will he rotate at first?
Or will he rotate at first?
I guess we will find out soon
He spent most of his game in the middle. Which is good because Im tired of seeing CF drifting wide to get the ball rather than properly competing in the middle, then you have nobody to finish the chance. We are lacking presence near the box not outside of it.
Yeah wasn't it Ole who talked about having players willing to break their nose to score goals
Because nonsense replies like your 2 previous are a waste of time. Either add something or scroll on.
But I didn't say he had scored 2 goals did I? You understood it that way, that's a you problem. It's been explained in my reply what I was referring to. To then try to say I was claiming he'd only scored 2 after that has been explained is disingenuous, ironically. I was talking about his season at the same age. Where Kane scored 2 goals. Hojlund played one season in Serie A, which is what a lot are basing on. If that offends you then I don't know what to say. Grow thicker skin maybe. It's not that deep.
He played 1 season for Atalanta. We can also compare their career totals if that will make you feel happier?
Kane 17 in 62
Hojlund 27 in 87
Anything else now boss? Kane's League One record vs Hojlunds goalless stint in Danish pro football? Youth records? G/A ratio? Shoe size?
Because we took so long to get the deal done, he'll only get 1 pre-season game with us at most, and it wouldn't surprise me if we don't get it wrapped up in time for the weekend so he gets zero. So there's a pretty decent chance Rashford starts our first PL game up front.
Another logical fallacy, this time a non sequitur. Brilliant.
You're overthinking it. It was a throwaway observation, not a thesis for defending to the exams board. I was simply pointing out that not all world class strikers are prolific immediately. Which is a simple enough concept really, struggling to get what you're struggling with.
The choice to use Kane as the example I would have thought it was pretty obvious given the media narratives and how much Kane is discussed this summer. I could have picked loads of strikers, but I'd just been reading the Kane thread so I used him. It's not that deep. Again, struggling to see the difficulty you seem to be having with this.
Because time is of the essence when posting on redcafe
"Just had a quick look at where Kane was at the same age." Is word for word what you said. Why would you only look at a single season and not his previous three seasons of professional football?
Makes no sense if that's truly what you were doing, because what does anyone even take away from that snapshot?
Very good summary video .for those of us not that familiar with him , looks a good prospect and good to see his work rate is very impressive and hold up play is of a good quality, a bit worrying that he is so poor in the air for knock downs etc. Not sure that will improve much.
A comparison of their relative seasons at aged 20? Want me to tie your laces for you next? Now jog on I'm done replying to you.
We don't really have anyone else. He'll be a starter.
What does a comparison of a single season at the same age do for anyone, if you're not taking into account what they've done previous? Tie my laces for me, please.
Well I think what he mean is, we should focus more on his raw talents, potential and qualities at such age, rather than just pure stats. Because most often, pure stats are rather meaningless for assessing players at such age.
It's not an odd hill to die on. Lukaku has a good to great goal scoring record at every club he's been at, including United. You just have a very silly argument you're not willing to move on from so you're digging your heels.
Nobody cares if you'd have Drogba in your team before Lukaku, a good number of people would as Drogba offers you stuff that Lukaku doesn't - that doesn't negate Lukaku's goalscoring prowess.
Again, the notion of "big 6" is a fairly modern one - Brighton finished in the top 6, Villa qualified for Europe - all this should tell you how silly your position is. The league is 38 games, and until you've mathematically won it - every game matters. If being a "flat track bully" was easy to do, there wouldn't be a relatively small pool of strikers to target and clubs wouldn't need to pay a premium for them.
It's OK not to think of Lukaku as the most complete/rounded player - he isn't - or the guy to lead your line, but you can do so without trying to diminish his proven goalscoring ability at multiple clubs, as well as for his national team.
He’s definitely raw but he looks to have so much untapped potential and our best manager post Fergie wants to develop him so It can only be a really good thing. Exciting signing for the club long term. I’d like us to grab a few more highly rated players his age (Sancho Antony etc) to go into the squad.
If Hoijlund is a success at the club it will open the route for a lot of top youngsters to move here and get developed. The trust young players had in Fergie
I've not dismissed his goal scoring prowess, I've pointed out a fact that he struggles to score against good teams and when it matters. You can try and dismiss this fact all you want but neither Chelsea or United look back at his time with them fondly for a reason.
This the very worst thing about modern football, everything is stat orientated which actually doesn't paint a full picture. If you think you can win a league or cups when your starting striker can't score against the likes of City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc then I don't know what to say to you.
I’m not sure some of the terms you use mean what you think they do!
Exactly and that’s what we need to get back to. We should want to be the premier destination for talent acquisition and development in that age group. We are in transition anyway so I’m glad to see the focus shift back to younger players hitting their peak with us and not on the other side of it. It’s the only thing that makes logical sense. I like Casemiro and Varane but I’d like to see stiff competition for them in the squad asap.
Are you attributing you not looking fondly on Lukaku due to his lack of goals against "top 6" as the reason why he's not looked on fondly by United and Chelsea?
"Yes, let me criticise modern football and it's focus on stats by focusing on even more segmented stats to substantiate my argument". Makes sense. That's without even mentioning that my whole position has been "Lukaku is a proven goalscorer, but he brings the technical floor of a team down"
Anyway - this is a silly exchange and it's derailing the thread.
Yes, its exactly why he's never in the discussion of best strikers in the world.
That fact gives more context to his stats. As I said scoring a hat trick against Norwich, Fulham, Bournemouth etc, but failing to score in big occasions, against big teams etc, paints a more accurate picture of Lukaku and why his stats don't really mean shit.
Put it simply, I'd imagine a Belgium fan would have traded most if not all his goals for Belgium if he could have scored one of the many chances he was given against Croatia in the world cup. Watch that game back, and you see why despite his great looking stats no one is fussed by him.You don't need everyone at the races to beat run of the mil teams, you generally speaking do on the big occasions.
As I said, weird hill for you to die on but whatever suits ya.
The crux of this discussion is you trying to act as if goals against the modern notion of "top 6" (whilst trying to argue against modern assessment of players) count more than goals in the rest of the 28 games in the league. They don't.
The rest is you just waffling, and trying to act as an authority as to why people don't think fondly of Lukaku. Silly positions all around.
They do if you're a team with any aspirations of winning titles. That's common sense, and a fact. I could go into depth as to why but you already know this and just being tedious at this point.
I hope the contracts have been signed already because Atalanta probably could've gotten 100m from us after this finishing performance
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