Read what I said, I never said great.
The last thing that anyone can ever accuse Rooney of is being lazy. Very strange post.
Rooney
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
The last thing that anyone can ever accuse Rooney of is being lazy. Very strange post.
Howard had it covered.
Rooney is a really good player. I'm not surprised that he produces moments like that. But his overall performances are lacking in some sparkle.
How many times did Berbatov play poorly last season, but produce one moment of sublime control etc. It doesn't mask a generally under par performance.
I'd be interested to hear the views of non-United fans of what they think of Rooney generally, and his form this season.
I watched the same game as you. Very bright in the first half, not so much in the second but still nowhere near woeful.
Misplaced a few passes in the last 5 or 10 minutes he was on the pitch, mind you, which is usually enough for the goldfish memories on here to decide he was wank for the whole game.
He hasn't had a partner who can get the best out of him since Saha broke down in late 2006.
Rooney to me seems a far more consistent winger than striker. And before you start typing he's wasted out there think of all the times his lack of form has made him a waste of space in the middle.
Who has said on this thread that he was "wank"?
Below his best and rightfully taken off. He's been afflicted by this malaise for a while. His goal vs Blackburn masked a generally luke-warm showing.
His performance was okay. Nothing special at all.
What's the relevance of Howard having it covered? The poster I was responding to was saying he did nothing daring in his play, I gave an example.
Calling someone 'woeful' is pretty much the same as 'wank'.
Malaise? abit strong no.. he's come back from injury, birth of child, was good v Chelsea and excellent in patches v Brazil. Today was poor, but like I said..he'll be back.
It was one example in 90 mins. I'd expect a player of his calibre to be producing that sort of thing once in a game. What else?
What I saw was a lot of hold the ball up and lay it off nice and easy. His control seemed better than it has done of late in fairness. But anytime he tried anything remotely penetrative it was underhit/cut out.
He's giving a lot of 6/10 performances of late.
He started the season very well, he's had a few off par perfomances lately but he's still doing enough to justify selection, and Owen didn't do anything to further his case today. Rooney will get his form back, no worries there.
So boom-bust then? Like last season, and the season before, and the season before...
Without a doubt he's doing enough to justify his selection - more by default though. Owen, Welbeck and Macheda are hardly going to displace him.
I am tracing back this "poor form" (in my eyes) to the Sunderland game - generally since then, he's not been at the races.
It's hardly boom bust. You're being very melodramatic.
Even when he's not quite 100% - like today - he's still massively influential. Implying that he's only getting picked because SAF doesn't have a quality alternative is ridiculous.
Even when he's not quite 100% - like today - he's still massively influential. Implying that he's only getting picked because SAF doesn't have a quality alternative is ridiculous.
If that was 'woeful' Rooney then i cant wait to see him at his best, will score 7 a game
Overall play has improved but not to the same level as you would expect from someone who is close to guaranteed a first team spot at United. He may have scored a couple of important goals but so has Rooney and we're all castigating him now. Berbatov has the rest of the season to show he is good enough without the need to bring someone else in.
In the big matches I'd still expect us to go with Rooney up front on his own similar to how it was against Chelsea.
I'm not advocating dropping Rooney. But what I am saying is that if we had a viable alternative as third choice then I wouldn't be surprised if Rooney did spend a game or two on the bench (it happened at times over the last two seasons when we had Ronaldo and Tevez). I don't see Owen, in his current state, as a viable starter.
He didn't really influence proceedings much today. As I keep saying, I think he's playing it very safe at the moment and I'm not sure why.
Re the boom-bust comment. Maybe it sounds melodramatic but:
7 in our first 7 matches this season. 1 in the last 7.
That is a typical Rooney run. Up to this point - nothing has changed in that regard.
Who on earth called him woeful?
Rooney is coming back to some good form. He has been slightly off all season despite being in good form in front of goal - which is obviously more important anyway.
But now his overall game is picking up. Hope he can keep the goals coming too
But now his overall game is picking up. Hope he can keep the goals coming too
I think Berbatov has had games where he ran the show without scoring. He came on to great effect against Wolfsburg for instance. He still has a lot more today, but I think he's had his season unluckily disrupted at times. He's way better for us this season. He's back on the goals trail for Bulgaria as well after a lean spell.
I thought he was decent, maybe by my own expectations he was a little disappointing but I'm beginning to feel that as he's a changed player now to the player he was/thought he would become, perhaps I should revise those expectations I have for him. One thing I've noticed of Rooney for the past year or so, ever since people have spoken about him losing the "explosive spark" or whatever term they use is that now when he receives the ball he seems to turn and lean back a lot more - looking for a ball over the top or through a gap for someone when before you'd see him receive it, turn, get his head down and go on a surging run. Have to say I preferred that part of his game and I think that is more of what we need at the moment, we have a lot of players whose main attribute is passing or awareness but very few who are ball-carriers, or players that can beat their man and are effective at doing so.
This general point is so true. Rooney is one of the few we have at the moment who is capable of filling this deficit.
Nothing to see here......
If only we had more ball-carriers today. Oh wait...
Some of the match comments in the ratings thread are awful when it comes to Rooney. Much worse than "woeful".
In fairness, that is one poster.
Sorry but what are you getting at here? I'm not exactly slating Rooney or our side because I think we could do with more ball-carriers in the team, just because we won today and well doesn't mean that I have to be knee-jerk and say we're invincible or go the opposite way when we lose and say we're relegation material. I have my opinions about where I think the team still has a bit of room for improvement, could be I'm completely wrong but then again I don't claim to be a great knowledge on football and am just giving an opinion here (not even a particularly strong one at that which makes your sarcy response even more questionable).
I don't think there was anything awry in what you said.
We are lacking one player with a bit of craft/guile in the final third. Someone who can weave through a few challenges or split a defence. In the last two matches we've played some great stuff up to the final third and then been let down by an inadequate pass.
There's more than one in the ratings thread.Calm down. I disagree with your claim that we need more ball-carriers, that's all.
IMO we might need a quality alternative to Giggs on the left-wing and maybe a better quality back-up to Rooney and Berbatov up front (unless Owen improves and/or Welbeck or Macheda kick on this season) Whether or not these missing pieces in the jigsaw are already at the club remains to be seen (I think/hope they are) Apart from that we're fine.
When we've hit form this season we've been excellent, I find it odd that someone can watch us play as well as we did today and think we need a "ball-carrier". We've plenty of players who can create and score goals, we're just a bit too reliant on Giggs and Berbatov staying fit and in form.
One thing that is a bit worrying is his tendency to try the most difficult first time ball every time it's played into him. Although the little back-heels and flicks look great when they come off, they usually aren't effective enough to be worth the risk. I think Gerrard had a similar problem a few years back with his 60 yard "hollywood" passes and constant attempts at through balls. Once he cut it down, he was a much more effective player.
Rooney is losing possession in good areas far too often. I'd like to see him pick up the ball and either hold it up, or turn and run at defenders.
Rooney is losing possession in good areas far too often. I'd like to see him pick up the ball and either hold it up, or turn and run at defenders.
I think you'll find that, if Nani had been poor for Portugal in those matches and his team had no made the world cup, he'd have blamed for their failure. The pressure was most definately there, stepping into the shoes of Ronaldo and making the difference for his country.
What I will say though is that the fans probably gave him more of a chance because he's one of them. Whereas theres a bunch of our fans who have already decided they dont like Nani and no amount of goals and assists will change their mind on him. They just dont like the things he does even in a good match. I'm not sure the Portuguese fans are at that stage.
I think Nani's problem is he's at the wrong club, he's reached that Catch 22 stage with United where he needs games to improve and to improve to get games. He should have left last christmas when it was clear that Ferguson wasn't going to take a proper punt on him. Wenger may have taken a chance on him then instead of Arshavin.
He has been disappointing for the last few games except for the second half against Chelsea.
The fate of this team this season depends on the Rooney/Berbatov partership.
If they click - we will win #19 and go deep in the CL, if they play the way they are playing then winning the league will be really really tough. I still see us going deep in the CL though, we have learned how to win at home and away in the CL.
The fate of this team this season depends on the Rooney/Berbatov partership.
If they click - we will win #19 and go deep in the CL, if they play the way they are playing then winning the league will be really really tough. I still see us going deep in the CL though, we have learned how to win at home and away in the CL.
If they don't then it should be goodbye Berbatov, three good performances aside he still has it all to do at United. If we had signed Benzema I doubt Berbatov would have started as much as he has.
He looked a bit jaded today - maybe the effort and burden of captaincy for Ingerlund had some effect, screaming child waking him up every night (although it's not like he has to be up at the crack of dawn for work) but he's always been a bit up and down. Still, put in a decent shift and if that late shot had gone in we'd all have our cocks out. Similar to Giggs, a lot of what he attempted didn't come off and moves broke down. We still managed a 3-0 win with an under-par (some players), but respectable performance - thanks again, for me, to Valencia's persistence and hard graft. I think he's becoming a crackin player for us and Rooney will be back on form soon enough. We go on about internationals taking it out of players, but look at Evra. Yet another 5 star performance from him although he did admit after the game he was tired.
I don't think you can but the blame on Rooney's sub-par performance against Everton solely on him.
First of all, we have to remember he was playing with Owen. This strike partnership is in its very early stages of development. They are still gelling together and learning to read each others' runs, movement, and intentions.
And if I'm perfectly honest, I don't ever see Rooney and Owen forming a great partnership.
People have slagged the Berbatov-Rooney partnership quite a bit (myself included!), but at least with those two you have two quality players who are accustomed to playing together.
Of course we have to also take his personal situation into consideration. He's just come back from a match in very hot conditions in the Middle-East, and of course Wayne is a new father! All these things will be stressful on him, so you can understand that he's not playing to his full potential at the moment.
Rooney was very good against Chelsea and he was mediocre against Everton. He's still our top goalscorer and our best attacking player. You can't expect sublime performances from him every single week!
First of all, we have to remember he was playing with Owen. This strike partnership is in its very early stages of development. They are still gelling together and learning to read each others' runs, movement, and intentions.
And if I'm perfectly honest, I don't ever see Rooney and Owen forming a great partnership.
People have slagged the Berbatov-Rooney partnership quite a bit (myself included!), but at least with those two you have two quality players who are accustomed to playing together.
Of course we have to also take his personal situation into consideration. He's just come back from a match in very hot conditions in the Middle-East, and of course Wayne is a new father! All these things will be stressful on him, so you can understand that he's not playing to his full potential at the moment.
Rooney was very good against Chelsea and he was mediocre against Everton. He's still our top goalscorer and our best attacking player. You can't expect sublime performances from him every single week!
You'd think I'd have written Rooney off like alot on this forum going by your interpretation of my post, I merely said he was poor in alot of aspects of his game by his standards.
Nothing to do with loss of explosion, nothing to do with his ball carrying abilities, just he wasn't at the races today which as I pointed out earliar and John has affirmed could explain why he wasn't quite firing on all cylinders.
His lay-offs and misguided passing was Nani-esque today. One off game, no biggie.
Add in Berbatov and Giggs to our best players list and I'd agree with you entirely. He's always been a streaky player - is there really any reason to panic about him having a relatively lean time of it in the midst of a fairly momentous and stressful period in his personal life? Even today, one of those games where nothing seemed to be working out for him in terms of final ball or shooting, we were still a much better team for having him on the pitch - his positioning, first touch and ability to turn into space would still have marked him out as a player to watch even if that was your first time seeing him play. His awareness and invention was good, he just had one of those days were his execution was lacking. He wasn't helped by some very pedestrian movement from Owen. He certainly showed more than Owen or any of Everton's front men.
About the first bolded part, the stats show he's rarely if ever had such a prolific start to the season. Even if his form is still subject to peaks and troughs, over the course of the season he's got every chance of having his most prolific season yet.
Re the second bolded part, he's lacked consistently good service from midfield and there's still some confusion as to his role - he's still adapting to generally being our most advanced striker, and learning when and when not to limit his involvement in the build up play. He's been good enough that its not really necessary to make excuses for him, but lets not pretend that everything's set up on a silver platter for him at the moment either. Losing Ronaldo without signing a comparable replacement is at least as much a hindrance as a help to him.
I agree with the last bolded part, but that's more a reflection on the quality of Berbatov's all-around play than a criticism of Rooney for me. If Rooney maintains that just over 1 goal very two games ratio I'll be more than happy with his output this season, regardless of what the likes of Drogba and Torres do.
My only worry is that I've been very encouraged by both Rooney and Berbatov so far this season individually, but they still don't look like a natural combination in the manner of Rooney and Ronaldo or Yorke and Cole.
Benzema's hardly torn it up for Real so far. Berbatov's one of the most divisive players among our fans that I can ever remember - personally I think he was good last season and has been excellent so far this season. I wish he could erase the lingering doubts by scoring more, but on the other hand he's being held to a standard that the likes of Cantona, Sheringham and Hughes never really were. They could dip below the prolific for months or even seasons without really being questioned. Berbatov doesn't seem to have that luxury - my perspective is that he's being judged not so much on his own performances as on the perception that he doesn't bring the best out of Rooney.
I've got to admit that I was looking forward to seeing Owen's movement in person today as its been talked about so much and its not always easy to see on TV, but I was massively underwhelmed. One or two good runs aside, his off the ball stuff was very, very mundane. There were quite a few occasions when he dropped deeper than Rooney as well, which seemed fairly pointless. I still think he'll be a good signing as an impact sub, but I'm fairly sceptical that he'll push Berbatov or Rooney out of the starting line-up for any sustained period this season.